09/23 Fistuk AMPS 131, +2 137, +4 110, +7 103, +9.25 94

Fistuk & Shelly

Fistuk & Shelly

Member Since 2023
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/97-22-fistuk-pmps-72-1-67.281825/page-2#post-3107178

@Bandit's Mom are we giving the 4u?

Edit:
luckily Fistuk did his potty job before going to sleep. It was really soft and shapeless. I'll see how it is today when his body is clearing the honey and the rest of the junk food.

He has eaten really well yesterday and at night. This morning he was hungry at +10 so at BF time he didn't eat much and I had to give him food with a syringe for the insulin. I'll see how he is at +10
 
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Bandit's Mom said:
It's possible that even 4U may be too much for him and we have to find a dose that you can safely shoot consistently without skips and token doses. Let's see what he does in this cycle.
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Yes, that sounds like a good idea. I think some stability is warranted at this stage.
We'll see in 10 mis where he is but he's looking like he's going down.
I gave hime some food at +1.5. he wants more now but I'll wait for after the test
 
Hi @Bron and Sheba (GA) :) Thanks for checking in. Thought I'll reply on today's convo.

I managed to get some rest but not as nearly as enough I need. I managed to squeeze abetter hour between shot and +2 that's coming in a bit.

Fistuk is doing better on some respects. He's being more and more himself. He's more alert and eating by himself. That's a huge relief.

I've given the Onda yesterday only once and today will probably be the last day I've given it.

His hips are still heavy. But you know, this has been going on for a long time! I asked one vet about this a few years ago. Hew said maybe this... maybe that... go to neurologist.. it'll cost you thousands and even if he finds out there won't be much that you could do. Vets! So it's worsen with diabetes but I need to consider how he was before as well.

Bowl movement is still not good. Before I gave him the homeopathy he was doing exemplary jobs. It's gotten messed up and with S. Bouldarii emergency dose it has started to get better but yesterday' honey and yogurt didn't help. I need to figure this one out and help him because it very unpleasant for him
:bighug:
 
shellys said:
+2 137
pretty flat...
I'll need to take a +3 right? it's when we normally see are of his intentions
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Yeah, or you could take a break and wait till +4. Feed him now and at +3, if he will eat.

shellys said:
Bhooma, Elsie suggested Visbiome and prednisolone for Fistuk's digestion. Do you have information on dosing?
@Bandit's Mom
@tiffmaxee
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Visbiome is a probiotic but Prednisolone is an steroid that is used for treating IBD (among other things) in cats. I don't think Elise was suggesting them for Fistuk. Just that she had to give them to her kitty and so she didn't know which of them worked.
 
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Bandit's Mom said:
Yeah, or you could take a break and wait till +4. Feed him now and at +3, if he will eat.
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That's a good plan. Gove his ears a break as well

Bandit's Mom said:
Visbiome
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You think I can add that to the S. Bouldarii?
I think in the article you sent me she said to give the emergency dose 3-4 days. We' in the fourth day today though yesterday's food was a mess so I'm wondering how long I can give the emergency dose. I was thinking also adding some psyllium husk today so he has more fibres.
I found last night a useful picture for different types of poo and as I suspected his looks like not enough fibre.
 
shellys said:
You think I can add that to the S. Bouldarii?
I think in the article you sent me she said to give the emergency dose 3-4 days. We' in the fourth day today though yesterday's food was a mess so I'm wondering how long I can give the emergency dose. I was thinking also adding some psyllium husk today so he has more fibres.
I found last night a useful picture for different types of poo and as I suspected his looks like not enough fibre.
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I have no experience with Visbiome, but I guess you could try adding plain cooked pumpkin or psyllium husk for fibre and see if that helps.
 
Gill & George said:
Sliding down nicely, is he due a snack Shelley? Maybe give him something to keep him surfing, regular food.
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Hi Gill. Yes, he's had a snack each time I tested. He eats by himself (happy dance) and very nice snacks amounts. feels like he's more self-regulated with food

Gill & George said:
It's a steady drop just 27 points in 2 hours
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That's good to know.

What's the best next test to take?

BTW I added a 1/4 tsp of psyllium husk to his food. Hopefully it'll help. Especially if I'll need to use honey tonight I feel like I want his digestion to be in a better place
 
shellys said:
had a snack each time I tested. He eats by himself (happy dance) and very nice snacks amounts. feels like he's more self-regulated with food
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Fantastic, as that improves further it'll make life easier.
shellys said:
BTW I added a 1/4 tsp of psyllium husk to his food. Hopefully it'll help. Especially if I'll
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Hope it works, I know folk have found ut useful

shellys said:
What's the best next test to take?
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What do you think?;):)
 
I've been writing this for the last hour :joyful:

l kept getting interrupted by the furballs at home, everyone is locked indoors, Saturdays are hunting days, I already have a cat whose full of shot, a lame le

Firstly, how are you doing? Are you getting enough rest? It's been a 'busy' few days.

How is Fistuk generally? Is he putting weight on? Is he slowly eating more? nice that he sat up to eat yesterday. (U answered that already :))


Congrats on the reduction, a drop into the 30s gave you no choice. I hope that the new dose keeps him I greens without dropping him too low.
I'm not convinced that yesterday's low was because 4.5u was to much, personalky I think that the depot from the higher doses and instability of shooting different doses may have had something to do with the numbers you got. 8t wouldn't surprise me if he ended up coming g back up again. Hopefully I'm wrong, and 4u is perfect for him and you see a sea of healing dark greens.

Just a FYI and for anyone reading your condo usually on TR, when a cat is on less than 5u bid, we take 0.25u reductions, even if they dropped into their 30's, , in Fistuks case their are other factors that are being considered at this time, both for his reductions and increases.


  1. He's not eating so well, you have been having to assist feed
  2. You've been fighting lows
  3. He had some glucose toxicity which has resolved, hence the sudden change in numbers.
  4. He's had DKA
  5. You're his sole carer,
Taking a dose down too quickly can be as counter productive as taking it up to quickly. In an ideal world what we are aiming for is a week in numbers normal for a healthy cat (50-100) before we take a dose down, that of course is often out of our hands, but IMO it should be what we aim for.

You've been getting great guidance and advice, I'm not suggesting otherwise, for your current situation. It's just that I wanted to make clear that going of protocol is not done lightly.

I gave George a maintenence dose of s. Bouldarii once a day for about a year. Not because he had a problem, his stools got to be normal after about a month, but because he'd had a very long course of antibiotics, and I wanted to give him a chance to fully recuperate. As continuing S.boull was not harmful and can be beneficial I erred on the side of caution.


I can't remember how long I gave the emergency dose fir or if its OK to continue it for longer.
 
Gill & George said:
I've been writing this for the last hour :joyful:

l kept getting interrupted by the furballs at home, everyone is locked indoors, Saturdays are hunting days, I already have a cat whose full of shot, a lame le

Firstly, how are you doing? Are you getting enough rest? It's been a 'busy' few days.

How is Fistuk generally? Is he putting weight on? Is he slowly eating more? nice that he sat up to eat yesterday. (U answered that already :))


Congrats on the reduction, a drop into the 30s gave you no choice. I hope that the new dose keeps him I greens without dropping him too low.
I'm not convinced that yesterday's low was because 4.5u was to much, personalky I think that the depot from the higher doses and instability of shooting different doses may have had something to do with the numbers you got. 8t wouldn't surprise me if he ended up coming g back up again. Hopefully I'm wrong, and 4u is perfect for him and you see a sea of healing dark greens.

Just a FYI and for anyone reading your condo usually on TR, when a cat is on less than 5u bid, we take 0.25u reductions, even if they dropped into their 30's, , in Fistuks case their are other factors that are being considered at this time, both for his reductions and increases.


  1. He's not eating so well, you have been having to assist feed
  2. You've been fighting lows
  3. He had some glucose toxicity which has resolved, hence the sudden change in numbers.
  4. He's had DKA
  5. You're his sole carer,
Taking a dose down too quickly can be as counter productive as taking it up to quickly. In an ideal world what we are aiming for is a week in numbers normal for a healthy cat (50-100) before we take a dose down, that of course is often out of our hands, but IMO it should be what we aim for.

You've been getting great guidance and advice, I'm not suggesting otherwise, for your current situation. It's just that I wanted to make clear that going of protocol is not done lightly.

I gave George a maintenence dose of s. Bouldarii once a day for about a year. Not because he had a problem, his stools got to be normal after about a month, but because he'd had a very long course of antibiotics, and I wanted to give him a chance to fully recuperate. As continuing S.boull was not harmful and can be beneficial I erred on the side of caution.


I can't remember how long I gave the emergency dose fir or if its OK to continue it for longer.
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Gosh, Gill. Hunting?! that sounds very unpleasant. But It tells me you live in the country side? We experience that around Robert's mum's house in Italy.

Thanks, Gill. I appreciate all the info so I can keep on learning and also know at some point how to make those decisions based on my knowledge of Fistuk.


What you wrote affirms what I intuitively was thinking which is to keep the 4U now as much as possible to gain some stability and as you say see what he does with it. It was important that I have a night break because Iwas running on fumes....

Having said that, I do want to make sure he's not running to the honey jar too often as I can't imagine that to be too good either. I don't really know how to create this balance asI have very little knowledge of insulin. I appreciate and welcome the different views and please do not be concerned about confusing me if views differ. I do rely on my inner compass as well and will eventually do what I feel is best for Fisrtuk.

Yes, I am his sole carer. Robert is working hard to compensate for our finances and he sleeps in his room to be able to have full night sleeps bc he works shifts and has to be alert also to not get injured 8physical work).

I don't get enough rest. I try to rest as much as I can in between. It's not easy when I also need to pack a house for moving :woot: but I do go to sleep in between tests at night even if it's 40-50 minutes to make sure I make the most of the sleep time I have. I'm getting a lot of support from everyone around me for many other needs so I feel very much supported and everyone knows that my sole focus now is Fistuk (anyone who can't get it is out of my life).
:bighug:
 
shellys said:
Having said that, I do want to make sure he's not running to the honey jar too often as I can't imagine that to be too good either. I don't really know how to create this balance asI have very little knowledge of insulin. I appreciate and welcome the different views and please do not be concerned about confusing me if views differ. I do rely on my inner compass as well and will eventually do what I feel is best for Fisrtuk.
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Every Cat is Different ECID, you will work it out,. In the meantime you've been in great hands. I didn't think that I would confuse you at this point you've already learnedd so much, and seem to be taking it in your stride.
I was also George's sole carer as matt worked away at the time, at times I was a zombie, catching naps where I could. I kinda got used to it. But I understand its not possible for everyone.
I seemed to be able to function, and I just had me and George to think of at the time. Everyone's situation is different. :bighug:

What is true is that if they decide to level out it gets a lot easier. Hang I there, you're doing great, with a bit of luck and a fair wind I hope that it's just round the corner for you.
 
shellys said:
Gosh, Gill. Hunting?! that sounds very unpleasant. But It tells me you live in the country side? We experience that around Robert's mum's house in Italy.
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Yes we do, it's the one thing I hate about where we are, we'll that and the dumping of animals, no sooner had the puppy been re homed.....
Two kittens have been dumped, I'm desperately trying to find them homes, Tried Dutch, and germN rescues see if they could help, many Spanish stray dogs go to Northern Europe, but it seems no one wants cats:( I have e 11 at the farm S a result of other people's unwanted litters that get dumped :(
If no one takes these two they will have to be full time outdoor cats, which with the hunting that goes o probably means we are due for so e heartache :(
 
Gill & George said:
Every Cat is Different ECID, you will work it out,. In the meantime you've been in great hands. I didn't think that I would confuse you at this point you've already learnedd so much, and seem to be taking it in your stride.
I was also George's sole carer as matt worked away at the time, at times I was a zombie, catching naps where I could. I kinda got used to it. But I understand its not possible for everyone.
I seemed to be able to function, and I just had me and George to think of at the time. Everyone's situation is different. :bighug:

What is true is that if they decide to level out it gets a lot easier. Hang I there, you're doing great, with a bit of luck and a fair wind I hope that it's just round the corner for you.
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Thanks, Gill. I've learned a lot thanks to the generosity of many in this community, esp @Bandit's Mom and @Bron and Sheba (GA) 's and your guidance. it's been a crush course. And I'm learning, like you, that I can do more with less sleep.

I forgot to respond to the question on his weight... he's still 4.4kg but that's a good weight for him. Hence the name Fistuk which means pistachio inHebrew. His body though looks fuller. not the sickly skin he was before. Even with the soft Stoll episode he hasn't looked lean and frail.

he also eats better and I've finally concluded that the ondansetron did nothing for him. When he didn't eat he didn't eat with the ondansetron or the mirtazapin and when he eat he eats. Fistuk has always had a mind of his own. I suspect that the soft stool was instigated by the homeopathy but eating too much, a lot of fat and not enough fibre is contributing to that a lot 8I won't go into the details of me fishing into his poo to examine it :woot:o_O)
 
Gill & George said:
Yes we do, it's the one thing I hate about where we are, we'll that and the dumping of animals, no sooner had the puppy been re homed.....
Two kittens have been dumped, I'm desperately trying to find them homes, Tried Dutch, and germN rescues see if they could help, many Spanish stray dogs go to Northern Europe, but it seems no one wants cats:( I have e 11 at the farm S a result of other people's unwanted litters that get dumped :(
If no one takes these two they will have to be full time outdoor cats, which with the hunting that goes o probably means we are due for so e heartache :(
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I hear you, Gill. It is a heartache. ALL of my MIL's cats are outdoor cats. She's Scottish lol... snow, hunting or what not they're outside. She's gotten softer as she's heading towards her 90's so in the snow they're allowed in to the kitchen area and not at night. I wouldn't be able to do that.

still 11 is quite a handful. I brought my best friend a cat as a gift a few years back. her husband wanted to kill me. Since, her tiny house looks like your farm. I think its are an addiction lol :cat: But if I had a farm (or when...) I'll probably be the same with goats and sheep and horses :joyful:
 
shellys said:
, a lot of fat and not enough fibre is contributing to that a lot 8I won't go into the details of me fishing into his poo to examine it :woot:o_O)
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Please don't! :woot:

shellys said:
But if I had a farm (or when...) I'll probably be the same with goats and sheep and horses :joyful:
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If you had stables and barns for your goats, sheep and horses you'd definitely need a clowder of cats to patrol for mice:):):)


They have shelter out door, and it doesn’t get too cold here, we have mild winters really, they would be fine really if it weren't for the nasty hoomans. I rescued a honey buzzrd last autumn, that had been shot, it had a broken wing, he went to a wildlife sanctuary and fortunately he didn't loose his wing so he's probably been released by now after his rehabilitation.
 
Good afternoon Shelly! I'm glad to see Fistuk is surfing more safely today, you need some rest and less stress!
Pumpkin works very well, for Bella it helps any time she has soft stools, and it seems to help with constipation as well. And she loves it, but Bella loves any kind of food, that must be the french in her :woot:
 
cecile & bella said:
Good afternoon Shelly! I'm glad to see Fistuk is surfing more safely today, you need some rest and less stress!
Pumpkin works very well, for Bella it helps any time she has soft stools, and it seems to help with constipation as well. And she loves it, but Bella loves any kind of food, that must be the french in her :woot:
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Well Bella's got the French taste buds as you say ;)
I tried psyllium husk today, otherwise I'll try pumpkin :bighug:
How's your mum
 
shellys said:
Well Bella's got the French taste buds as you say ;)
I tried psyllium husk today, otherwise I'll try pumpkin :bighug:
How's your mum
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Thank you for asking, Shelly. She is doing better, I talked to her yesterday, no more fever, the Paxlovid seems to help and we decided to wait and see, we'll decide today or tomorrow if I go or not yet.
 
When Chai had severe diarrhea I gave her psyllium husk powder, followed the emergency S Boulardi suggestion until she had near normal stool,and gave Visbiome. She has either scl or IBD so was getting prednisolone too. You don’t want to use prednisolone as Fistuk fortunately does not have either of those diseases. Congrats on the reduction.

From what I have seen some cats hit a breakthrough dose and race down the dosing scale. Other cats need to add some juice back. JMHO but safety comes first so sometimes risking a need to increase if needed is not the end of the world provided you don’t wait too long to increase if needed. Sometimes we need a break to catch up on sleep or life makes that necessary. We don’t want a sick caregiver. As long as resting and evaluation goes on I don’t think you will see insulin resistance. We do the best we can. Just my two cents FWIW.
 
shellys said:
+9.25 94
Here we come....the meadows are calling. Lets hope we're sating here
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I'm not sure I am comfortable giving the full dose with a green PMPS. We don't dose based on preshots, but he has recovered from that token dose almost like it never happened and didn't bounce from those 30s at all - to me that is a sign that he wants to go lower in dose. Shelly, how are you placed wrt monitoring tonight? I know you will stay up, if needed for Fistuk...but are you feeling well rested enough to deal with an active cycle at night?
 
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tiffmaxee said:
When Chai had severe diarrhea I gave her psyllium husk powder, followed the emergency S Boulardi suggestion until she had near normal stool,and gave Visbiome. She has either scl or IBD so was getting prednisolone too. You don’t want to use prednisolone as Fistuk fortunately does not have either of those diseases. Congrats on the reduction.
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Thanks,
tiffmaxee said:
When Chai had severe diarrhea I gave her psyllium husk powder, followed the emergency S Boulardi suggestion until she had near normal stool,and gave Visbiome. She has either scl or IBD so was getting prednisolone too. You don’t want to use prednisolone as Fistuk fortunately does not have either of those diseases. Congrats on the reduction.
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thanks,Elsie. I gave 1/2 tsp of psyllium and see how this works. I want to avoid mecidation for sure if it's not needed but I'm not in favour of filling up neither my body not Fistuk's with meds....

tiffmaxee said:
From what I have seen some cats hit a breakthrough dose and race down the dosing scale. Other cats need to add some juice back. JMHO but safety comes first so sometimes risking a need to increase if needed is not the end of the world provided you don’t wait too long to increase if needed. Sometimes we need a break to catch up on sleep or life makes that necessary. We don’t want a sick caregiver. As long as resting and evaluation goes on I don’t think you will see insulin resistance. We do the best we can. Just my two cents FWIW.
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I think it's ok to give some juice back. I'm not comfortable with him running low frequently. I don't know what's the effect on his body having hypoglycaemia events one after the other. Do you?
I think we need to find the right balcna and the question now is what is that balance considering that Fistuk is in a new place.

So now for the jargon :p what is JMHO and FWIW ?
I appreciate your two cents :bighug:
 
Bandit's Mom said:
I'm not sure I am comfortable giving the full dose with a green PMPS. We don't dose based on preshots, but he has recovered from that token dose almost like it never happened and didn't bounce from those 30s at all - to me that is a sign that he wants to go lower in dose. Shelly, how are you placed wrt monitoring tonight? I know you will stay up, if needed for Fistuk...but are you feeling well rested enough to deal with an active cycle at night?
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I'm not feeling comfortable either. And I take @Gill & George's comments earlier and just wondering what would be the right balance here.

I'm ok to monitor for tonight. I basically did nothing today besides binging in bed LOL so I'll probably be up for it. But I need to know what it means for his body if he runs low again. Can you inform me about that?

I take into account that it could well be that he might surf in the greens as well. I think at this point, where i't all an ew territory for Fistuk it's hard to say. But the reason I took the +9 test was bc I noticed some twitching in his leg and he keeps on asking for food and he's not really falling into sleep this afternoon. all sings that tell me he may very well head towards the light greens.

I can monitor. I can give honey and all the rest of it. But I want to get a sense of what is the right thing.
 
shellys said:
question - am I giving fluids now?

I know he's not low yet but I remember @Bron and Sheba (GA) saying something about holding off with SQ but maybe it was for high respiratory rate
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I think she said 80ml once a day was okay but you don't want to give more than that. She will be asleep now but she'll respond tomorrow about whether he still needs 80 ml every day. How is his peeing? Is he still peeing buckets?


shellys said:
I'm ok to monitor for tonight. I basically did nothing today besides binging in bed LOL so I'll probably be up for it. But I need to know what it means for his body if he runs low again. Can you inform me about that?
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Often a skip or a token dose is more for the caregiver than the cat. But there are instances where one uses them to drain an overfull depot or when a cat is racing down the dosing ladder and doesn't care to follow dosing protocols! As long as you monitor he would be okay, but I'm a little worried because it did take a lot to bring him up yesterday morning and he was in green at the end of the cycle even after a lot of honey and HC. And to add to that his reaction (or lack of one) to a very low token dose last night. All of it makes me feel that 4U might be too much.
 
JMHO is just my humble opinion
FWIW for what it’s worth

Probiotics are being used a lot these days with success. I’ve started giving Visbiome to my other cat with skin allergies to see if it helps. There’s no down side. Ran that by my vet. He said research is looking into probiotics helping dentak disease. My fingers and my cats’ paws are crossed there’s a correlation.

Balance is the key. We don’t want them too low or too high. Too much hc and or honey can upset the tummy. With past ketones we need to make sure they don’t return. We are in new territory I think which calls for experimenting to find out. So far a token dose as not led to a rise in bg which one would expect to see so that makes me inclined to agree with what Bhooma said above.
 
He
Bandit's Mom said:
I think she said 80ml once a day was okay but you don't want to give more than that. She will be asleep now but she'll respond tomorrow about whether he still needs 80 ml every day. How is his peeing? Is he still peeing buckets?
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I normally give 60ml unless I feel the need to give 80ml like in the case of diarrhoea or high numbers. I might just give him 50ml now

Bandit's Mom said:
it did take a lot to bring him up yesterday morning and he was in green at the end of the cycle even after a lot of honey and HC
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That's exactly what worries me. What would you feel comfortable with?
 
tiffmaxee said:
Probiotics are being used a lot these days with success. I’ve started giving Visbiome to my other cat with skin allergies to see if it helps. There’s no down side. Ran that by my vet. He said research is looking into probiotics helping dentak disease. My fingers and my cats’ paws are crossed there’s a correlation.
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I too believe ProB is a very good thing. The very bad down side of allopathic meds is side effects

tiffmaxee said:
Balance is the key. We don’t want them too low or too high. Too much hc and or honey can upset the tummy. With past ketones we need to make sure they don’t return. We are in new territory I think which calls for experimenting to find out. So far a token dose as not led to a rise in bg which one would expect to see so that makes me inclined to agree with what Bhooma said above.
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This resonates with me. What dose would you advice
 
shellys said:
know he's not low yet but I remember @Bron and Sheba (GA) saying something about holding off with SQ but maybe it was for high respiratory rate
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Some cats bg can drop lower when you give fluids.
Bandit's Mom said:
was in green at the end of the cycle even
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I was just looking at the ss, I'm wondering if he has a tenancy to be a late nadir cat.

Look at his nadirs when he was on 5.50u.

Pmps with 97
+8 77
and AMPS 31

I wonder if that iss what we are seeing here.?
 
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