? 08/06 Regs PMPS 562 +7 542 AMPS 551 😱

Wow that is quite a drop! Lantus is a depot drug so it’s possible that you’re only seeing the effects of this current dose now that Regs’ depot is full. And cats’ insulin needs change over time so it’s possible that his sensitivity is changing and he needs an adjustment.

I’m not sure if you’re following SLGS or TR, but SLGS reduces below 90. It might be worth asking someone experienced for a SS and dose review.

Finally, please don’t panic if his PMPS numbers look high. You skipped his AM dose (smartly) and cats will often bounce to much higher numbers after seeing numbers that they’re not used to seeing.
 
Connie & Parker & Moonie said:
Wow that is quite a drop! Lantus is a depot drug so it’s possible that you’re only seeing the effects of this current dose now that Regs’ depot is full. And cats’ insulin needs change over time so it’s possible that his sensitivity is changing and he needs an adjustment.

I’m not sure if you’re following SLGS or TR, but SLGS reduces below 90. It might be worth asking someone experienced for a SS and dose review.

Finally, please don’t panic if his PMPS numbers look high. You skipped his AM dose (smartly) and cats will often bounce to much higher numbers after seeing numbers that they’re not used to seeing.
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Too late with the Panic, I hate high numbers but low numbers are really scary. Thankfully Regs acts active and happy and had a good 5oz breakfast and some liquid treat and so.

I would have expected a drop like that from Vetsulin but I thought Lantus is more stable, and I could see he was feeling good this morning but I was quite surprised that the number was that low.

I texted the vet and she just answered I need to make sure his glucose stays up during the day- I love her but that’s not helpful. I can do home office most of the day and check on him but I have a meeting I can’t move around lunchtime.

I will ask the vet later if I should reduce the dose.

I read a little about TR but not so much about the other one
 
Here's a sticky that might be helpful - Sticky - Dosing Methods: Start Low, Go Slow (SLGS) & Tight Regulation (TR)

You don't have to pick TR or SLGS but I personally found it a really helpful tool to regulate Moonie. TR in particular has a lot of data support / evidence and a great track record of getting cats into regulation and remission. And having something systematic to adjust Moonie's dosing was really helpful for me, because I didn't have to panic and try to figure things out in the moment. It also helped me interpret the numbers better to have that level of consistency and systematic dosing changes. I think if you can test 4x a day and feed your cat on an all LC wet food diet, TR is probably the better method but a lot of cats also do really well on SLGS.

If it makes you feel better - shooting low numbers usually gives me the flattest, least stressful curves. When Moonie's numbers looked like Regs' we had a lot of stressful nights because she could drop 100-200 points within 1-2 hours. But shooting a green number means she usually just stays green or goes up a little into blue. I think shooting 77 after only shooting 300-ish numbers would have been too much (and I certainly wouldn't have done it in your shoes), but hopefully over time, you'll gain experience shooting lower and lower numbers until it becomes an everyday norm for you :). When I started, I would freak out posting about 200 pre-shots, then 170, 150, etc. and each time, it gave me more confidence that it was going to be ok, especially after I figured out that Moonie is pretty carb sensitive + I could bring her up very quickly with food. From what you posted, Regs might be as well, which would be great because knowing that I could bring Moonie up with a bit of MC/HC gave me a LOT more confidence to shoot into lower numbers.
 
Connie & Parker & Moonie said:
Here's a sticky that might be helpful - Sticky - Dosing Methods: Start Low, Go Slow (SLGS) & Tight Regulation (TR)

You don't have to pick TR or SLGS but I personally found it a really helpful tool to regulate Moonie. TR in particular has a lot of data support / evidence and a great track record of getting cats into regulation and remission. And having something systematic to adjust Moonie's dosing was really helpful for me, because I didn't have to panic and try to figure things out in the moment. It also helped me interpret the numbers better to have that level of consistency and systematic dosing changes. I think if you can test 4x a day and feed your cat on an all LC wet food diet, TR is probably the better method but a lot of cats also do really well on SLGS.

If it makes you feel better - shooting low numbers usually gives me the flattest, least stressful curves. When Moonie's numbers looked like Regs' we had a lot of stressful nights because she could drop 100-200 points within 1-2 hours. But shooting a green number means she usually just stays green or goes up a little into blue. I think shooting 77 after only shooting 300-ish numbers would have been too much (and I certainly wouldn't have done it in your shoes), but hopefully over time, you'll gain experience shooting lower and lower numbers until it becomes an everyday norm for you :). When I started, I would freak out posting about 200 pre-shots, then 170, 150, etc. and each time, it gave me more confidence that it was going to be ok, especially after I figured out that Moonie is pretty carb sensitive + I could bring her up very quickly with food. From what you posted, Regs might be as well, which would be great because knowing that I could bring Moonie up with a bit of MC/HC gave me a LOT more confidence to shoot into lower numbers.
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I think I should have given him the insulin this morning, he is so incredible high now. The vet says that as long as he is acting normal he is not an emergency and he did eat drink and had no ketones in the urine. He just is tired and sleeps.

I really need to do some research about the different methods, they sound great and much more advice than what the vet can give.

But I think you are right and he might be very carb sensitive, every time he got dry food he always had high numbers. But also maybe I should have given him food this morning a bit more controlled than I did 😩
 
Next time you see a lower number than you are comfy shooting in the AM, try waiting (without feeding) for 15-20 minutes and see if he's going up. You can't withhold food too long or he's start dropping, but as that +1 showed, he could have gone up to what you feel comfortable shooting fairly quickly. You can still stay on schedule if you shoot up to 1/2 hour late. However, today gave you good data for next time.
 
Britta and Regs said:
I think I should have given him the insulin this morning, he is so incredible high now. The vet says that as long as he is acting normal he is not an emergency and he did eat drink and had no ketones in the urine. He just is tired and sleeps.

I really need to do some research about the different methods, they sound great and much more advice than what the vet can give.

But I think you are right and he might be very carb sensitive, every time he got dry food he always had high numbers. But also maybe I should have given him food this morning a bit more controlled than I did 😩
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Honestly you only find out by trying different things, so today just gave you data for next time as Wendy mentioned!

In your shoes, I wouldn't have shot at 77 either if you'd only seen 300+ numbers and there wasn't anyone here to advise. And the first time I ever saw a green (96 - so a very high green), I freaked out and gave Moonie almost 1/3 of can of FF gravy and I sent her skyrocketing to 140+ in 20 mins and she continued to only go higher that night. I think other people here all have similar stories. But Regs' carb sensitivity can be a real blessing when you need to bring him up, which will inevitably happen.

The stall technique Wendy mentioned saved me multiple times and gave me comfort to shoot lower numbers. You can see multiple times on Moonie's SS that I used to stall a lot. But seeing a naturally rising number meant that the prior dose of insulin had worn off, so I was shooting into a number that was naturally rising and would rise more with food. As someone much smarter than me on this forum said, you're not shooting your cat's number right now, you're shooting the number he will be :)
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Next time you see a lower number than you are comfy shooting in the AM, try waiting (without feeding) for 15-20 minutes and see if he's going up. You can't withhold food too long or he's start dropping, but as that +1 showed, he could have gone up to what you feel comfortable shooting fairly quickly. You can still stay on schedule if you shoot up to 1/2 hour late. However, today gave you good data for next time.
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Thanks so much for the advice Wendy, will do that next time. So no feeding and waiting 15 min? And no insulin? Even now I know that the food will raise his BG significant and that I could also give him Lantus with lower numbers, it was just so scary that he never been under 100 with Lantus, I think that freaked me out.

Plus I wrote out vet and she said give him as much food as he wants to get the number up, and Regs is a very good eater.
Today he is still at 550, I think last night I was so nervous giving him the shot and he was moving so much, I smelled Lantus on his fur so I guess at least some of that was not in the skin, and since I'm beating myself up that I made his night worse. This morning thankfully everything went ok, no smell and a good eater....
 
Connie & Parker & Moonie said:
Honestly you only find out by trying different things, so today just gave you data for next time as Wendy mentioned!

In your shoes, I wouldn't have shot at 77 either if you'd only seen 300+ numbers and there wasn't anyone here to advise. And the first time I ever saw a green (96 - so a very high green), I freaked out and gave Moonie almost 1/3 of can of FF gravy and I sent her skyrocketing to 140+ in 20 mins and she continued to only go higher that night. I think other people here all have similar stories. But Regs' carb sensitivity can be a real blessing when you need to bring him up, which will inevitably happen.

The stall technique Wendy mentioned saved me multiple times and gave me comfort to shoot lower numbers. You can see multiple times on Moonie's SS that I used to stall a lot. But seeing a naturally rising number meant that the prior dose of insulin had worn off, so I was shooting into a number that was naturally rising and would rise more with food. As someone much smarter than me on this forum said, you're not shooting your cat's number right now, you're shooting the number he will be :)
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Thank you so much for all your help / input Connie!
That is so true it was a learning lesson that I can also give him insulin with lower numbers, maybe not that low at the beginning. Next time I will try the stall technique, that sounds like a good plan.

I only wrote the vet yesterday morning and she just told me give him as much food as he wants and was persistent that I should not give him insulin if he is under 250, really love her and she is a good vet but I think in this point she is too careful.

Regs is still high and was high all night, around 550 but I think I made the mistake and did not give him the Lantus properly last night. He was moving around and I was stressed from the high numbers and after the shot I smelled the insulin very bad on my hand and in his neck, so at least a portion must not have hit him.

This morning I was over careful and bribed him with a liquid snack, I know not good but I was so glad that he is in good spirits and despite the 550 number is playful hungry and wanted cuddles this morning
 
Britta and Regs said:
Thank you so much for all your help / input Connie!
That is so true it was a learning lesson that I can also give him insulin with lower numbers, maybe not that low at the beginning. Next time I will try the stall technique, that sounds like a good plan.

I only wrote the vet yesterday morning and she just told me give him as much food as he wants and was persistent that I should not give him insulin if he is under 250, really love her and she is a good vet but I think in this point she is too careful.

Regs is still high and was high all night, around 550 but I think I made the mistake and did not give him the Lantus properly last night. He was moving around and I was stressed from the high numbers and after the shot I smelled the insulin very bad on my hand and in his neck, so at least a portion must not have hit him.

This morning I was over careful and bribed him with a liquid snack, I know not good but I was so glad that he is in good spirits and despite the 550 number is playful hungry and wanted cuddles this morning
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Honestly I think most vets are working with clients who are not home-testing so they're trying to get you to a dose where your cat is between 200-350 at all times. It frustrates me too, but I recognize that a lot of vets have gotten burned seeing clients who want to euthanize if diabetes management seems like too much work or expense :(

I did a lot of fur and partial fur shots in the beginning so it's all part of the process. I'm really happy to hear Regs is in good spirits and being his happy playful self! Over time, I've also learned to focus more on how the cat is feeling / doing than the absolute number. Obviously the numbers matter because prolonged high numbers are harmful, but I've learned that there are cats here who've lived long healthy happy lives despite having rollercoaster numbers for 5+ years :)

You did an awesome job managing a scary low number and next time you can go for the Balls of Steel Award (for shooting a green) ;)
 
Small housekeeping note, we prefer that people start a new post for a new day, then link to the previous post for people to get the history. That way posts don't get too long to read to catch up to what is current.

As far as fur shots go, they happen.🤷‍♂️ Every cycle is a do over.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Small housekeeping note, we prefer that people start a new post for a new day, then link to the previous post for people to get the history. That way posts don't get too long to read to catch up to what is current.

As far as fur shots go, they happen.🤷‍♂️ Every cycle is a do over.
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Oh I'm so sorry Wendy I must have missed that. Will do that in the future.

I know it can happen I was just so angry with myself because now he missed two doses in a row and the numbers were so scary
 
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