08/03 Grandpa's numbers are up AMPS 417, +7 500

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Beck and Philly

Beck and Philly

Member Since 2018
Yesterday

Not a great day for Grandpa so far. Yesterday I noticed that he ate much more slowly than normal. He kept pausing and I would stir his food and scrape it into a small pile. He'd eat more and we'd repeat.

I tried to increase insulin to 1.25 this morning. I don't know how you guys do it. The space between 1 and 1.5 is minuscule. At +7 hours he just registered 500. I'm getting concerned.

I ordered some Weruva Cats in the Kitchen canned food and just gave him some. It took 30 minutes of stirring and waiting but he ate most of a 3oz can.

Hoping things look up.
 
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Sometimes I'm not totally sure how I do it either. I much rather Lou be at 0.5 increments because it's annoying to eyeball those 0.25 increments. I bought calipers to help with consistency, but I haven't actually gotten the measurements for my syringes yet. :oops: Hopefully I'll get it done this weekend so I can start using them. I am hoping that today's cycle can be chalked up to new dose wonkiness (or NDW). Every time I increase Lou's dose (and it's been the same on both Vetsulin and Basaglar), that first cycle (sometimes 2), he runs high and stays high. It's like his body is fighting against the increase or something. I've never understood it. So hopefully Grandpa will start coming down either tonight or tomorrow. Hugs to you and scritches for dear Grandpa.
 
Hello, I just looked at Grandpa's SS & it looks a lot like my Ravan's He was bouncing into those High Red & Black #'s for 6 months. I switched to Levemir a week ago & so far, I can't believe the difference. He's on less insulin & in blue & green #'s

It's still very new so I'll need to wait & see if this continues but you might want to look at his SS & if it stays this good, keep it in mind in the future for your kitty. ( I'm using a Relion Prime meter,100 strips for under $20)
Best of luck :)
 
Really rough day. Numbers over 500. Not eating much. And on top of it all, vomiting worms! He hasn't been outside in a year. Now to see if our warrior gentleman can get through the Drontal treatment and feel better.

Poor sweet guy. I feel horrible.
Tomorrow's another day. Goodnight all.
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Worms, yikes! Well, at least you have a likely explanation for him feeling disordered, and it's something that's relatively easy to treat. Vines for Grandpa and the rest of your family to be worm-free in no time. And sweet dreams to you, Beck--tomorrow should be better.:bighug:
 
Oh boy! Worms are gross and luckily Bubba threw up tape worms before otherwise I would not have known.

I do believe when they have worms the protocol is a dose of Drontal and then another dose in 3 weeks. But check with your vet.

When I have given Drontal as a preventative without seeing evidence of worms , it was a one time dose.

You are reminding me that I need to dose him again since he's been outside and actively hunting.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Oh boy! Worms are gross and luckily Bubba threw up tape worms before otherwise I would not have known.

I do believe when they have worms the protocol is a dose of Drontal and then another dose in 3 weeks. But check with your vet.

When I have given Drontal as a preventative without seeing evidence of worms , it was a one time dose.

You are reminding me that I need to dose him again since he's been outside and actively hunting.
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Thanks. Like you, I wouldn't have known if he hadn't thrown up. When they get bad enough to come up that way, they've had them awhile. Luckily, since we have been through this before with others, we have quite a bit of meds at hand and have plenty of Drontal. I just never suspected it. In hindsight I should have. He had fleas pretty bad last summer when we rescued him along with another cat. We had to treat them and the house more than once to get it under control. I can't imagine that we didn't worm them, but we probably didn't repeat.

We are going to do a series of three 10-day cycles this time to be sure. I just hope this is what's hurting his appetite so I can fix it. He normally attacks his food. This morning he would only eat Temptations treats.

Thanks again!
 
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Beck and Grandpa said:
Thanks. Like you, I wouldn't have known if he hadn't thrown up. When they get bad enough to come up that way, they've had them awhile. Luckily, since we have been through this before with others, we have quite a bit of meds at hand and have plenty of Drontal. I just never suspected it. In hindsight I should have. He had fleas pretty bad last summer when we rescued him along with another cat. We had to treat them and the house more than once to get it under control. I can't imagine that we didn't worm them, but we probably didn't repeat.

We are going to do a series of three 10-day cycles this time to be sure. I just hope this is what's hurting his appetite so I can fix it. He normally attacks his food. This morning he would only eat Temptations treats.

Thanks again!
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The worms can make them nauseous and they can either get diarrhea or be constipated. Or both. Bubba's appy hasn't been his normal piggish self. I really need to de-worm..........

Good luck!
 
I’m moving my response to your 7/31 condo questions here since this is the most recent condo I find :)

Beck and Grandpa said:
Marje. Thanks for the spreadsheet help!

As far as the starting dose, I had read in several places that the starting Lantus dose should take into consideration his current dose of the insulin we're stopping. I don't know what "take into consideration" means, though. I had read that the starting Lantus dose should be less than a previous Vetsulin dose. I had also read how to calculate dose by cat weight. I figured we were on a good track with 1U. Sounds like I figured too low.

We started raising the dose today. We want to do TR, so it looks like a raise every three days is allowed. Our plan is to raise .25 at a time. If anyone has thoughts or suggestions, I'm very open.
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Happy to help with the SS.

By “taking into consideration” the dose of the non-L insulin one is switching from, it means, in a nutshell, one wants to consider if that dose was getting him into good numbers? If it was and you have an idea of how low that dose was taking him, you might want to back off the Lantus starting dose a bit from the other insulin dose. If that dose was not doing much for him, then you wouldn’t want to back off the starting dose of the Lantus very much at all as long as you could test (safety first).

We’ve seen some instances where the dose on the previous insulin was doing nothing....numbers were still very high. In that instance, it didn’t make any sense to lower the Lantus starting dose and leave the kitty in high numbers.

Dosing by weight is the place to start when you first start insulin and there is no information as to how a kitty is responding to any insulin.

Please keep in mind that my comments are not offered as criticism but as a teaching opportunity since we have a lot of members who read but don’t post. Also, if you are in the position of helping someone in the future as they switch from a non L insulin to Lantus or Levemir (or one of their generic forms), you can offer good advice.

It’s important to note that when switching between the L insulins, we do it differently than above. In general, we reduce the starting dose by 30%. However, having said that, if a cat on Lantus, for instance, was hanging out in black and red numbers and we knew that was as low as it was getting, for the switch, I’d consider not dropping the Levemir insulin dose back.

Where to go from here with Grandpa? Typically, following the TR protocol, with nadirs over 300, one would increase the dose by 0.5u after six cycles. However, in this instance where you have switched to Lantus from another insulin and the dose was dropped back, with his nadirs where they are (other than the one blue number he had), I would consider increasing the dose by 0.25u after just four cycles to try and fast track him a little towards his previous dose on Vetsulin.

It’s your choice but what I wouldn’t do right now, unless you are seeing ketones, is raise him by 0.5u after four cycles. I’d do one or the other of these options if nadirs continue over 300:
—Increase by 0.5u after six consecutive cycles or
—Increase by 0.25u after four consecutive cycles

And before increasing any dose, it’s important that you know how low the current dose is taking him so spot checks each cycle are important. When he’s this high, that doesn’t mean get up from a sound sleep to test but grab a +2 at night and a before bed test. If he’s headed down quickly, it might be smart to then grab a later test.

And with these high numbers, with the combination of his lower dose and him being off food, I’d be staying on top of the urine ketone testing.

I hope he will start eating better. :bighug:
 
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Sue and Luci said:
@Amanda and a Loudogg
I use calipers to measure .25 dose increments. Here are the measurements that you need to set the dial to (if you're using digital calipers)...

For dose of
1 set digtal to .120
1.25 set digital to .134
1.5 set digital to .148
1.75 set digital to .162
2.00 set digital to .176

My husband used digital calipers at work for setting industrial presses to thousandths of an inch - the machines had to be set extremely precisely or the resulting parts wouldn't fit together correctly (costing the business thousands or more)...measurements are critical. He set my calipers and wrote down these increments for me. I have not asked him to set anything higher than 2.0 but if you need to, let me know and I can ask him to figure out those numbers. I believe you have to add or subtract .25 to the previous number since that's the difference in increments we all want to use when using Lantus. Here are some pics to help you (I hope). I have yet to go below 1 u with Luci - but hope that day is coming soon!

First picture is Luci's current dose (1.5 u) = .148 on the calipers.

2nd photo: I did not take the syringe pictured all the way out of the plastic caps - if I had been measuring insulin (for real) I would have lowered the plunger just a tad to align it more perfectly with the lower caliper edge - see how you can see the black plunger just sticking above the caliper edge? That would have not been accurate. I try to hold it up eye level with the calipers in one hand, the sryinge in the other to make sure that lip is level with the caliper edge. I found these on Amazon.

3rd photo - the syringes I'm using currently.

View attachment 37950 View attachment 37951 View attachment 37952 Hope this is helpful.
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I developed dosing with calipers and here is the condo I wrote on Dosing with Calipers. It is absolutely crucial to note that the dose “equivalent” on the calipers is dependent upon the exact type of insulin syringes you use. Unless a member is using the exact same syringes as @Sue and Luci, they should not use the measurements she listed.

The condo on dosing with calipers explains how to calculate what the equivalent caliper measurement for dose would be for the syringes you are using and how to make dose adjustments using calipers with your specific brand of syringes. Please do not use calculations for ReliOn 31g, 3/10 cc, 6 mm syringes if that’s not the syringe you are using.

And please tag or PM me if help is needed on how to figure out the whole dosing with calipers as it relates to the syringe type used. :)
 
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Marje and Gracie said:
I developed dosing with calipers and here is the condo I wrote on Dosing with Calipers. It is absolutely crucial to note that the dose “equivalent” on the calipers is dependent upon the exact type of insulin syringes you use. Unless a member is using the exact same syringes as @Sue and Luci, they should not use the measurements she listed.

The condo on dosing with calipers explains how to calculate what the equivalent caliper measurement for dose would be for the syringes you are using and how to make dose adjustments using calipers with your specific brand of syringes. Please do not use calculations for ReliOn 31g, 3/10 cc, 6 mm syringes if that’s not the syringe you are using.

And please tag or PM me if help is needed on how to figure out the whole dosing with calipers as it relates to the syringe type used. :)
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I've deleted my post.... I don't want to mislead/confuse anyone by posting inaccurate information. Sorry about that...:oops:
 
Sue and Luci said:
I've deleted my post.... I don't want to mislead/confuse anyone by posting inaccurate information. Sorry about that...:oops:
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I didn’t mean for you to delete your post :arghh:...there was good info and you were helping Lou. I just wanted to be sure it was very clear the measurements on the calipers depend on the syringe and there is a very specific methodolgy for how to determine the measurements needed to dose with calipers.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I didn’t mean for you to delete your post :arghh:...there was good info and you were helping Lou. I just wanted to be sure it was very clear the measurements on the calipers depend on the syringe and there is a very specific methodolgy for how to determine the measurements needed to dose with calipers.
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It’s complicated enough without me adding potentially another layer of misinformation - which of course is based on my syringes only...

Your condo is very detailed and explains clearly how to use calipers
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I didn’t mean for you to delete your post :arghh:...there was good info and you were helping Lou. I just wanted to be sure it was very clear the measurements on the calipers depend on the syringe and there is a very specific methodolgy for how to determine the measurements needed to dose with calipers.
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Why is your condo on 'Dosing with Calipers' not a Sticky? I'm going to add the link to my signature - that way I can find it easily when I need reminders or to pass along to others who may be thinking about using calipers.
 
Sue and Luci said:
Why is your condo on 'Dosing with Calipers' not a Sticky? I'm going to add the link to my signature - that way I can find it easily when I need reminders or to pass along to others who may be thinking about using calipers.
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It’s an “Info” post. Stickys are a little bit higher priority information than Info posts. We would not want anyone to believe they must use calipers to dose. It’s totally up to the CG.
 
@Sue and Luci
FYI, "Info links" do not belong in signatures. There are two places Lantus, Basaglar, and Levemir ISG members should learn to look for general information:
Hope this helps...
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
@Sue and Luci
FYI, "Info links" do not belong in signatures. There are two places Lantus, Basaglar, and Levemir ISG members should learn to look for general information:
Hope this helps...
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I'm sorry, I didn't realize there was a rule about the signatures.:oops: I've made the change to my signature. Thank you.
 
Sue and Luci said:
I'm sorry, I didn't realize there was a rule about the signatures.
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Never said there was a rule about signatures. The point was learning/knowing where to find the info one is looking for.

You wanted to know why "Dosing with calipers" isn't a sticky... we can't have a sticky for every topic on the FDMB. Instead, we include these kinds of topics within the stickys. If only members would familiarize themselves with what's offered. :)

FYI: Regarding signatures...
An excerpt from "Editing your Signature, Profile, and Preferences" form the Announcements & How to use the FDMB forum:

On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
There is a limit of 2 hard returns; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc.
This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
Add any other text, such as
your name,
cat's name,
date of Dx (diagnosis)
insulin
meter
dosing method
any other pertinent issues like if there are any food issues, history of DKA, hepatic lipidosis, pancreatitis, allergies, IBD, etc.


Hope this helps to clear up any confusion...
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
Never said there was a rule about signatures. The point was learning/knowing where to find the info one is looking for.

You wanted to know why "Dosing with calipers" isn't a sticky... we can't have a sticky for every topic on the FDMB. Instead, we include these kinds of topics within the stickys. If only members would familiarize themselves with what's offered. :)

FYI: Regarding signatures...
An excerpt from "Editing your Signature, Profile, and Preferences" form the Announcements & How to use the FDMB forum:

On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
There is a limit of 2 hard returns; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc.
This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
Add any other text, such as
your name,
cat's name,
date of Dx (diagnosis)
insulin
meter
dosing method
any other pertinent issues like if there are any food issues, history of DKA, hepatic lipidosis, pancreatitis, allergies, IBD, etc.


Hope this helps to clear up any confusion...
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My apologies. After doing this for a decade longer than me I can see you're very familiar with the content...I'm still learning. Again, I'm sorry for my mis-steps.
 
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