Judy and Boomer
Member Since 2014
hmmm still surfing in the green since yesterday
06/06 Boomer PMPS 162 shot 1.25
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Judy and Boomer
Member Since 2014
Re: 06/06 Boomer AMBG 81 no shot 119 at +30
We've been trying to hit a dose where I can actually give him all of his shots. Isn't working so far!
Ok question here......looks like he may stay blue today. I am ok shooting if he is in the 120s and up.....but with around 126 and under being considered "normal" and knowing that healing is taking place at those levels.....should I be shooting or should I just let it ride to see what he does with it? Normal PM shot is at 6:00 but he also eats at 10:00 and I usually test him then....so if his levels started coming up in those 4 hours I could always shoot at 10:00....with it being the weekend it's quite a bit more flexible!
Just want to do what's best for Boomer!
We've been trying to hit a dose where I can actually give him all of his shots. Isn't working so far!
Ok question here......looks like he may stay blue today. I am ok shooting if he is in the 120s and up.....but with around 126 and under being considered "normal" and knowing that healing is taking place at those levels.....should I be shooting or should I just let it ride to see what he does with it? Normal PM shot is at 6:00 but he also eats at 10:00 and I usually test him then....so if his levels started coming up in those 4 hours I could always shoot at 10:00....with it being the weekend it's quite a bit more flexible!
Just want to do what's best for Boomer!
Re: 06/06 Boomer AMBG 81 no shot 119 at +30 question.....
I'm not really sure why you aren't shooting these numbers. You are testing. My kitty is on a much, much lower dose of insulin and I shoot 50s numbers regularly.
Shooting the green numbers above 50 is how you take advantage of carryover and overlap so instead of him going up, he stays flat. When I look at his SS, the only number I would have recommended you not shoot were the few below 50.
If he were my cat, I'd be shooting every green number above 50 with the current dose (which is now 1.25u) until he earns a reduction. I'd be shooting them on time. If you weren't testing, it would be a different matter but you test as much as i do. If you get a number below 50 at shot time, stall, don't feed and let it rise above 50 and then reduce the dose and shoot. I see nothing in this 1.25u dose right now that tells me you shouldn't be shooting numbers above 50 with it.
If you need help....and someone to stay with you when you shoot it....just let us know. What do you think?
I'm not really sure why you aren't shooting these numbers. You are testing. My kitty is on a much, much lower dose of insulin and I shoot 50s numbers regularly.
Shooting the green numbers above 50 is how you take advantage of carryover and overlap so instead of him going up, he stays flat. When I look at his SS, the only number I would have recommended you not shoot were the few below 50.
If he were my cat, I'd be shooting every green number above 50 with the current dose (which is now 1.25u) until he earns a reduction. I'd be shooting them on time. If you weren't testing, it would be a different matter but you test as much as i do. If you get a number below 50 at shot time, stall, don't feed and let it rise above 50 and then reduce the dose and shoot. I see nothing in this 1.25u dose right now that tells me you shouldn't be shooting numbers above 50 with it.
If you need help....and someone to stay with you when you shoot it....just let us know. What do you think?
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 06/06 Boomer AMBG 81 no shot 119 at +30 question.....
I'm with marje - the Lantus Land saying is "shoot low to stay low." the more you can keep shooting on times, the faster his healing process is going to be.
It's awesome that he can coast for hours in healthy numbers, but i think shooting him consistently, every 12 hours, will help him make progress. to me, this is more of a holding pattern than making progress. He appears to have the potential for a solid green spreadsheet instead of every other day of higher numbers.
I'm with marje - the Lantus Land saying is "shoot low to stay low." the more you can keep shooting on times, the faster his healing process is going to be.
It's awesome that he can coast for hours in healthy numbers, but i think shooting him consistently, every 12 hours, will help him make progress. to me, this is more of a holding pattern than making progress. He appears to have the potential for a solid green spreadsheet instead of every other day of higher numbers.
Judy and Boomer
Member Since 2014
Re: 06/06 Boomer PMPS 162
Shooting 1.25 now.
Doing the best I can. I'm just learning; I do really appreciate everyone's help...but at 6:00am when I'm making this decision most people are still asleep.
Shooting 1.25 now.
Doing the best I can. I'm just learning; I do really appreciate everyone's help...but at 6:00am when I'm making this decision most people are still asleep.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 06/06 Boomer AMBG 81 no shot 119 at +30 question.....
we know you're working hard - no worries! this is a tough disease!
i think both marje and i are just trying to encourage you that shooting low is a safe thing to do when you monitor as much as you do! you might want to print out what marje suggested above about shooting everything over 50, and if he's below 50 stall without feeding until he rises over 50, reduce the dose by 0.25u and shoot.
he'll get there! he's doing so well already!
we know you're working hard - no worries! this is a tough disease!
i think both marje and i are just trying to encourage you that shooting low is a safe thing to do when you monitor as much as you do! you might want to print out what marje suggested above about shooting everything over 50, and if he's below 50 stall without feeding until he rises over 50, reduce the dose by 0.25u and shoot.
he'll get there! he's doing so well already!
Judy and Boomer
Member Since 2014
Re: 06/06 Boomer AMBG 81 no shot 119 at +30 question.....
50 just seems really really low to me.
His food will raise his levels a bit for a couple of hours then just as the food wears off the insulin kicks in.....
50 just seems really really low to me.
His food will raise his levels a bit for a couple of hours then just as the food wears off the insulin kicks in.....
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
It is low. It's in Boomer's natural blood sugar range. But the way Lantus works is that it's really good at keeping blood sugar flat when you start with low numbers. It's not as good at pulling down high numbers.
It is amazing what happens shooting low - it's like you're now in a completely different "game" than you were when you shot 300.
I can't remember if i've given you spreadsheets to look at before, but here is Davidson's. Shawna shot everything over 50 for months while Davidson's pancreas healed. They rocked slowly down the dosing scale about 0.25u per week, most weeks. Take a look in February at the change that happened when she started shooting low. It's pretty great.
Orange is another interesting spreadsheet.
Jersey just went off a month or so ago.
Dimitri was our last kitty to go OTJ.
What you're looking for in other's spreadsheets is what happens to the rest of the cycle when they shoot in the 50's - 80's. Look at how much the cycle goes down mid-cycle when they shoot lower, as compared to when they shot over 150 or so.
It is amazing what happens shooting low - it's like you're now in a completely different "game" than you were when you shot 300.
I can't remember if i've given you spreadsheets to look at before, but here is Davidson's. Shawna shot everything over 50 for months while Davidson's pancreas healed. They rocked slowly down the dosing scale about 0.25u per week, most weeks. Take a look in February at the change that happened when she started shooting low. It's pretty great.
Orange is another interesting spreadsheet.
Jersey just went off a month or so ago.
Dimitri was our last kitty to go OTJ.
What you're looking for in other's spreadsheets is what happens to the rest of the cycle when they shoot in the 50's - 80's. Look at how much the cycle goes down mid-cycle when they shoot lower, as compared to when they shot over 150 or so.
Julie's points are all good ones. I know we think that if they drop 50 mg/dL when we shoot a 150, then will they drop that much when we shoot a 70? They don't (typically).
My Gracie is on levemir and you can look at her SS and see when I've shot the 50s. Sometimes she just stays flat; sometimes she goes up a little and stays flat; sometimes she just goes up into blue. I've had her drop to the 40s/30s when I've shot high blue. What you will notice is, the flatter they are when you shoot those lower numbers, the flatter they generally stay until they are ready for a dose reduction. And some cats, like Davidson, earn most of their reductions from being in normal numbers (green) for a week.
Dyana and Sienne are usually on in the morning but there are plenty of experienced members around at most times of the day.
My Gracie is on levemir and you can look at her SS and see when I've shot the 50s. Sometimes she just stays flat; sometimes she goes up a little and stays flat; sometimes she just goes up into blue. I've had her drop to the 40s/30s when I've shot high blue. What you will notice is, the flatter they are when you shoot those lower numbers, the flatter they generally stay until they are ready for a dose reduction. And some cats, like Davidson, earn most of their reductions from being in normal numbers (green) for a week.
Dyana and Sienne are usually on in the morning but there are plenty of experienced members around at most times of the day.
Judy and Boomer
Member Since 2014
Hi Julie and Marje.....ok I see what you mean. I guess maybe I have to have the nerve to try it...in order to experience it and be confident in it.
So....when is it that Boomer "earns" a reduction? I think being green for a week is one? Is there a specific level when, if he reaches it at any time during the day, he gets a reduction?
I really really do want Boomer OTJ!
So....when is it that Boomer "earns" a reduction? I think being green for a week is one? Is there a specific level when, if he reaches it at any time during the day, he gets a reduction?
I really really do want Boomer OTJ!
tiffmaxee
Member Since 2013
Hi again Judy. I wish I had followed the protocol when Max was diagnosed in November. Instead I let my vet decide what to do and Max was taken off insulin too soon. Granted I had other problems that prevented lots of testing but it still wasn't handled right. That MIGHT be why over 6 months later Max not on didn't go OTJ but isn't regulated. If is scary to shoot low but it seems to be the way to work this disease. I know it's even more scary when you are all alone with these decisions early in the morning or in the middle of the night. Just when I start to feel more confident I get thrown another curveball I never thought of and it is hard to think it through without much sleep. Just know you are being guided by pros who really know what they are doing and won't steer you wrong. You are doing great!!
Elise
Elise
Boomer would earn a reduction when his BG a falls below 50 once or he's in normal numbers (mostly green) for a consecutive week at one specified dose. Skipping a shot or shooting a reduced dose one time (indc a fur shot) typically starts the clock over.
Yes, you are doing great, Elise is right. Sometimes we just need that little nudge
Yes, you are doing great, Elise is right. Sometimes we just need that little nudge
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
i thought that if you shot a 250 and the cat nadired at 50, so a drop of 200 points, on any particular dose, that meant that "this dose = 200 points." So if you shot a 50 at that dose, the cat would go to zero and die. but it just doesn't work that way.
It's a hard idea to wrap your head around. it's very counter-intuitive and i can't think of anything else that works that way. Perhaps it's because insulin is a hormone rather than a "drug." I don't know - but i've seen it happen over and over again, and it really does do that. you can't get complacent and think it means you don't have to test, because the cat will settle into a dose and work its way down, but it doesn't mean you have to test every 30 minutes either. I do think it's something you just have to try with your cat and see what the result is.
btw, when i'm saying "you" i just mean "people."
I tell people that the lower preshot is like a little gift - it's an opportunity to flatten out the cycle and lower the entire range of blood sugar numbers. The opportunity will come again, though, so if you aren't ready the first time, you'll get another chance.
If you aren't comfy shooting a 50, perhaps you could shoot a 100 the first time, then move your threshold to 80, then to 60, then to 50 to get more comfortable and learn how Boomer's body will respond to it. You've shot a couple of times in the 120's. What might help with the early morning decision is to decide the night before what your threshold is, write it by the syringes and if it's over that number, go for it.
Whenever you shoot a number that is lower than you've shot before, get a +1 and a +2, just to make sure he isn't diving. He doesn't typically do that, but it's a good rule of thumb. If you're nervous, get a +0.5u. If you haven't reread the sticky on "Shooting and Handling Low Numbers" you might want to do that as well.
We're cheering you on! It is nerve-wracking, but you'll be able to do it!
It's a hard idea to wrap your head around. it's very counter-intuitive and i can't think of anything else that works that way. Perhaps it's because insulin is a hormone rather than a "drug." I don't know - but i've seen it happen over and over again, and it really does do that. you can't get complacent and think it means you don't have to test, because the cat will settle into a dose and work its way down, but it doesn't mean you have to test every 30 minutes either. I do think it's something you just have to try with your cat and see what the result is.
btw, when i'm saying "you" i just mean "people."
I tell people that the lower preshot is like a little gift - it's an opportunity to flatten out the cycle and lower the entire range of blood sugar numbers. The opportunity will come again, though, so if you aren't ready the first time, you'll get another chance.
If you aren't comfy shooting a 50, perhaps you could shoot a 100 the first time, then move your threshold to 80, then to 60, then to 50 to get more comfortable and learn how Boomer's body will respond to it. You've shot a couple of times in the 120's. What might help with the early morning decision is to decide the night before what your threshold is, write it by the syringes and if it's over that number, go for it.
Whenever you shoot a number that is lower than you've shot before, get a +1 and a +2, just to make sure he isn't diving. He doesn't typically do that, but it's a good rule of thumb. If you're nervous, get a +0.5u. If you haven't reread the sticky on "Shooting and Handling Low Numbers" you might want to do that as well.
We're cheering you on! It is nerve-wracking, but you'll be able to do it!
Judy and Boomer
Member Since 2014
I will see what happens this weekend. Weekdays are actually a lot easier to deal with low numbers because, although I'm still working, my husband is home most of the time.
And I will try to shoot low. At least I'll try to shoot lower than what I've been shooting! Baby steps. :roll:
Thanks again for your help!
And I will try to shoot low. At least I'll try to shoot lower than what I've been shooting! Baby steps. :roll:
Thanks again for your help!
When we first came to LL, I thought I'd have a heart attack when I saw someone shoot a 150. I thought "I will NEVER be able to do that". But I did and faster than I thought. But then I was positive I'd never be able to shoot 100. But I did (a 91 one month into it). And then one night, she gave me a 30 at +12!!! With help from the wonderful friends here, I stalled and then shot a 67 at +13.5 and then put on those big girl pants (Julie :lol: :lol: :lol: ) and started shooting the shootable numbers (above 50). And Gracie on lantus was one who liked to drop all day and give me her lowest number at PMPS and then she didn't necessarily like to come up.
Julie's idea is a good one....a little lower each time. Boomer might surprise you with how flat he might be.
Julie's idea is a good one....a little lower each time. Boomer might surprise you with how flat he might be.
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