05/04/12 Ella PMPS 336, +2=281+3= 254 +4= 344+5=347

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Re: 05/04/12 Ella amps 284

So just to confirm...I will be giving her the same calorie intake in wet food as she has been getting in dry. So if she gets 280 a day in dry and a can of wellness is worth 220, I will be giving her a can and a 1/4? (Those numbers are approximate) I'm going to have to figure out some calcualtions today seeing as though she's getting her 1/4 of dry this am!

Will I be splitting the can up to give her the exact portions at each meal and how many times should she be eating?

Thanks!
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella amps 284

Tamara

I'm looking so forward to seeing how Ella does without the dry food!! I'm so excited!!

I would calculate how many calories a day exactly that she is getting now. You are correct that you want to give her the same number of calories. So whatever portion of wet food that is, divide it into two....one for the a.m. cycle and one for the p.m. cycle. So if her alloted calories equals 1-1/2 can of wet food (depending on the food), then 3/4 can will be her morning portion and the remaining 3/4 her evening portion. Then you can do it a couple different ways. You can give her 1/4 at PS and then give her the remainder during the day as she's hungry (but I'd be sure she is done before her nadir as feeding at/after nadir can slow down the insulin) or you can feed equal portions at set times up to her nadir. It's really up to her as to how hungry she is at what times. Once we see a pattern develop on the lantus, we can decide if she needs any actual and specific feeding of the curve or not. For now....I wouldn't get too worried on when she eats except I'd feed her at PS and I wouldn't overload one helping with too much food....the pancreas does better with smaller meal given during the cycle than overwhelming it with 1/2 can at a time.

Let us know how we can help!!! Great job!!!! :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :RAHCAT :RAHCAT
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella amps 284

yay, i'm looking forward to her change tonight too. hoping to see some much better numbers on a lower dose of insulin - all good things.

marje is right on about the food. for now, you don't need to worry about doing something fancy with your feeding plan. cats who need it might have a special eating plan, certain amounts, certain percentages at particular times in order to manage their numbers better. you're not at that stage now and some cats never need it.

for now, you're just giving her the food and gathering the data on how she does on it. tonight, it would be helpful if you get a +2 and post it so we can give you an idea of when to test next. as i've said, it may take a while for the dry to work out of her system, so she may be higher overnight than you would otherwise expect from her eating low carb canned food.

how is the rest of her - is she frisky and does she groom well? is her fur greasy or normal?
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella amps 284

So I'm just thinking of the future....like tonight...what happens if she wakes me up for food? Do I keep tough until the morning?
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella amps 284

if she wakes you up for food, i'd probably test her and if it's before +5 or so, and you have food left from the cycle's quota (the 1/2 day per cycle allotment) give her food.

if she's eaten her 1/2 day's allotment or if it's after +6 i'd probably let her wait until morning and her next shot.

of course, if her numbers are low (below 50) and she's asking for food you'll give her food, regardless of the time that it is.

i think you're in the eastern time zone, right? what time do you shoot?

as we move ahead it's going to be even more important for you to update your subject line with recent numbers and/or questions so if you need help, people will see it. to do that you edit the first post in a thread, update the subject line and then click "submit."

perhaps you already know, but to bump your thread up to the top, add a reply to the entire thread and it will come to the top of the list.

don't edit the actual content of that first post of the thread because no one will see it. only edit the subject line as the day goes on and then add a "new reply" to add comments or questions.
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella amps 284

Hi Julie,

Thanks for the food advice:)

Yes, I'm in the eastern time zone and I shoot at 7:30am/pm. I just tested her at +9 and she was 358. How long does it take carbs to get out of a system?
From the pattern that I've seen so far, my guess is that she'll be around the same number at PMPS. The low carb wet usually keeps her stable. Approximately how long does canned food take to settle in the system?

I will make sure to post often:)
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +9.5 358

She has 1/2 a can to eat for her allotment for the day. Would that be overloading her? Should I break it up in two 1/4 and feed her until +3?
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +9.5 358

i don't think any of us know the answer to those questions. ECID - which you will see often here meaning "every cat is different" is very true. some cats are very sensitive to carbs, some seem to be pretty insensitive to carbs.

we'll see what ella is when you stop giving her the dry food.

:-D post away. there are eyes watching for you. :lol:
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +9.5 358 food question

Good thing cause I'll definitely need eyes watching over us!
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +9.5 358 food question

just saw your Q about food - are you saying she has a 1/2 can for the DAY or the CYCLE?

i started punkin with 3 oz of fancy feast with his shots and 1.5 oz at +3. there isn't a specific recommendation, other than to keep most of it before the nadir.

your choice on what to do with it. just try something, write it on the ss, and if it needs tinkering, then we'll tinker in the future.
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +9.5 358 food question

I think I need clarification of the difference between cycle and day.
I was feeding her 5/8 of dry per day (7:30am-7:30pm). The calorie conversion works out to be approx 1 1/2 cans of wellness.
I'm assuming I portion the 1 1/2 cans from 7:30am-7:30pm?

And according to my calculations she has 1/2 can of wellness left for the day (7:30am-7:30pm)

I was just reading Janet and Binky's page and noticed something that might be important for Ella. Under the Q &A about low carb diets it says: Some cats with pancreatitis, liver trouble, or high levels of lipids in their blood may need foods which are lower in fat, even if it means a diet that's higher in carbohydrate.
Looking at the chart it seems like wellness has a higher fat content and Ella has had pancreatitis so should I look for something a bit lower in fat?
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +9.5 358 food question

i don't think i'd worry about that at the moment. if she had pancreatitis now, yes, but let's just leave your question out there and see if someone experienced with pancreatitis thinks a previous episode means a low fat diet now.

has she only had it the one time?

for now, you have enough to deal with.

your goal is to keep the calories the same in a day that it has been, ie, we don't want her to gain or lose weight if she is at a good weight.

a day is 24 hrs. a cycle is 12 hrs between shots. give her the same calories she was getting before over the course of a day.
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +9.5 358 food question

Ok thanks!

No she doesn't have pancreatitis now but the vet was concerned about giving her a diet higher in fat. The last time she was weighed she had risen to where she was prior to her bout with pancreatitis. I was told that we need to keep her where she is at or even a bit less. My vet wanted to give her the canned dm which is low in carbs and fat but has bi-products as oppsed to muscle meat.
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +9.5 358 food question

Another thing that should be known about her dosing is that I do it over 15-20 minutes. I take her bg at 7:15 and then feed her(she takes a while to eat) and then dose her at 7:30. I know it's supposed to be done within 5 minutes but I like to ensure that she eats the appropriate amount before shooting her.

Is that acceptable?
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +9.5 358 food question

Tamara....the amount of fat in a food is more of a concern with dogs and humans in regard to pancreatitis. It's not so prevalent that cats develop pancreatitis from eating a food such as Wellness.
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +9.5 358 food question

Hi Tamara,

Regarding the fat in the food....I would not stress right now about what food to feed, Wellness is what you have and she will eat it, right? I would switch to that and then after you get her transitioned, you can experiment with other foods. I'm not sure that information is current, but perhaps others with pancreatitis experience will be better able to help you with that question...unfortunately, I don't have pancreatitis experience.

If you are worried about her gaining weight, then you need to watch the total calories. I would not feed her DM, it's garbage. There are far better choices than that. I don't know if you can get it in Canada, but Merrick makes some very good foods that are low fat, high protein and low carb. The Before Grain line is very good, as are some of their gourmet entrees, like Cowboy Cookout.

It's fine if you test, feed and then shoot after you make sure she eats. If she isn't a reliable eater, that's a good idea.

You have plenty of test strips and HC wet food, right? Not trying to make you worry, just making sure you are prepared!
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella PMPS 336 food question

Ok took the leap of faith!

Running out to get everything I need before good friday! Will post back at +2... Please watch for me:)
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella PMPS 336 food question

Yayyyy its easter weekend!!! Wet food time for Ella!!!!

Whoot Whoot!

:-D :-D :-D
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella PMPS 336 food question

+2 281

Well Ms. Ella is going down!
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +2 281

couldn't find karo....the grocery guy didn't even know what I was talking about! he asked waht i wanted it for and i said my diabetic cat :lol:

i have honey and maple syrup on hand!
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +2 281

we hope so! can you get another test at +3 so we can see what's going on?

or perhaps i should ask what tests are you thinking you can get tonight?

the good thing about you being on the east coast is there are several of us on west coast time - i'll be up for another 4ish hours and usually others are too.
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +2 281

do you have any high carb canned cat food, ie, one with gravy in the name on the can? if not, honey/maple syrup works.

people use karo syrup to make candy. i thought every grocery store carried it. it's corn syrup.

until you see a number under 50, you don't need to do anything. we just want to watch and see what happens.
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +2 281

Hooray for wet food! Hooray for the good taste of Wellness (Rusty likes it, too). You are doing great, Tamara: you have a plan, you are implementing it, and Ella will do just fine.
Maple syrup or honey would work as well as Karo (which is a brand of corn syrup). All you need is a drop mixed into Ella's food if she seems to be going too low.

Enjoy your evening. Rusty and I will be watching, too.

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +2 281

Yes I got the food with gravy. How often should I be testing tonight? What would be helpful?
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +2 281

I don't know if I'll be doing much sleeping at all nailbite_smile

I could do whatever testing needs to be done.
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +2 281

it would be nice to see maybe an hourly until it starts going up . . . but i don't know how tired you are. it's not necessary to do it hourly. some people sleep-test-sleep-test.

can you get a +3 and let's go from there?
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +3 254

she wants more food but she's eaten her allotment. should i give her a bit more?
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +3 254

I'm fairly certain I worked out the correct numbers of calories. Not sure why she's still hungry. Does dry food fill you up more?
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +3 254

i'll check back at 11:30 your time and again at 12:30 - so once an hour for your +4 and +5. if you're wanting to snooze, skip the +4 and come back for the +5.

she's looking great. i think this canned food is just right.

you can leave the recent numbers in your subject line, just keep adding on for tonight - that'll let others see the progression of the numbers.
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +3 254

re the food - a calorie is a calorie, but i know that every single time i try to change punkin's food schedule, he complains as though i'm killing him. he just doesn't like change. once he gets used to it, he's fine.

you might have to put on your "stern mom" face and tell miss ella she's done with dinner! :lol:
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +2 281

:lol: @ Julie!

She will get used to the wet food, mine acted starved in the beginning, too. I think they were used to the carbs, they craved them. I still have to watch the dog kibble like a hawk, they try to steal it.

Ella is looking good....I'm heading to bed, I'll check in on you in the morning. :smile: You're doing great!
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +3 254

ok so i did miscalculate an 1/8. Just gave her a teeny tiny snack! she was right!
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +3 254

so the only gravy i could find was the friskies chicken and salmon dinner in gravy which is rated 12% carbs on Janet's list. Is that ok?
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +3 254. +4 344

+4 344....I guess the carbs are kicking in?

In theory, should she be going up from here? Do we think the lower numbers may have been form the canned food mixed with the leftover insulin in the shed?
I have no idea...just some thoughts!
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +3 254

Hi Tamara,
12% is considered "medium" carbs, but you can always add a drop of syrup to make it "high" carbs. (In the same way, you can add a drop of syrup to "low" carbs to make it "medium" carbs; but let's not get ahead of ourselves. Ella is in a nice, safe place right now.). If you could go back to your first post of today and add the new numbers as you get them to the subject line in this first post, then people can see at a glance how Ella is doing.
This Ella has to sign off now, but the West Coast people will still be around for a while yet. You are doing great and tonight's numbers will be very valuable for future reference.

See you tomorrow,

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella +3 254. +4 344

i have no idea either! some cats have an early nadir - with dry food in the mix sometimes we can't even see when the nadir is.

could be that ella's going to have an early nadir. could be - well i don't know what all it could be, but ella is a cat. her job is to be confusing, as sienne says. she's doing her job!

yes, that gravy food was fine - it's not especially high, but it will work. it depends on how carb sensitive she is.

some people write the % on can lid so they know. when you use it, if you find that it seems like it doesn't pull her up quickly, just keep in mind you can add a drop of the corn syrup or honey to the gravy. you're not going to give her any of this until she drops below 50, which i think is mighty unlikely tonight.

are you up for checking in another 30 or 60 minutes? i'd kinda like to know if this is the nadir or if we're just getting a random number. or do you want to wait and check numbers tomorrow? it doesn't have to be tonight.

sleep tight, laurie!
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella PMPS 336, +2=281+3= 254 +4= 344

I'll use some toothpicks to prop my eyes open until 12:30pm..so 40 minutes...stand by:)

In the past we thought that her nadir was at +8...does it change when the insulin dose changes?
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella PMPS 336, +2=281+3= 254 +4= 344

Also, I have a question about blood. Sometimes when I poke ella she has bright red blood and sometimes it is dark. Does this interfere with bg readings?
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella PMPS 336, +2=281+3= 254 +4= 344

it can change - but i don't know why. i suppose it's possible for the dry food to make a difference but i really don't know. punkin had a brief phase of having a later nadir, maybe a couple of weeks, but it went back to where it was. we didn't change his food, so . . .

what you're doing now is to do checks to learn all of that - how ella's patterns are on canned low carb foods. see you in a while. toothpicks for decorations! :-D
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella PMPS 336, +2=281+3= 254 +4= 344

It's hard to say....nadirs do move and its another one of those ECID things.

You and Ella are doing great! I'll be up until way past your bedtime and I hope you get some rest tonight.
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella PMPS 336, +2=281+3= 254 +4= 344

Hiyas!

I think you were normally not giving extra food between PMPS and +4? Ella got an extra little snack tonight, so maybe that could be??? I'm like the rest...we will have to wait and see what she does...

We found the dry food raised the sugars immediately but the high protein low carb took about 4 hours to kick in.

If Ella were a human...if you have spagetti or bread (high carb) your body receives sugars right away because they contain starch which starts to be absorbed into the bloodstream through capillaries in your mouth! If I have steak or chicken, the body needs to convert that food into glucose the body can use. That happens lower down the digestive tract and has to be processed (enzymes and stuff) so it takes 4-6 hours to kick in. The idea with the high protein and low carb is to let the protein sugar meet the lantus sometime between 4-6 hours (on paper anyhow lol).

You guys are doing great! This is new and tonight is day 1!!!

Tanya
 
Re: 05/04/12 Ella PMPS 336, +2=281+3= 254 +4= 344

You're right Tanya! I was rarely feeding Ella past her PS. Perhaps it's better to feed her in one lump sum at her ps times? I guess time will tell. I'm just hoping she doesn't go super HI tonight!

Thanks for the feedback and support everyone!
 
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