? 04/16 Dilly. QUESTION. AMPS 350 +2 88 +3 38 PMPS +4 44

C

Catbug91

Member Since 2024
I may be doing this wrong, but my apologies! I've tried to quickly read as much as possible but it's a lot of information so forgive me if I'm doing it wrong.

Dilly gets 3 units of Lantus at 7:30 am/pm. He had DKA almost 2 months and almost kicked the bucket a couple weeks ago while we were trying to get his insulin dose figured out. Now, he's seeming energetic for normal cat standards and has a great appetite. I've been feeding him 5 meals a day because he really needs to gain weight. He got down to 7.2 lbs. He's back up to 8.4 and we are hoping he'll get to a healthy 10 (he's big boned).

We use a human tracker, Accuchek. I know we should be checking before every shot, but he won't sit still before breakfast and I've ended up stabbing myself more than him. So I try to do it before every PM shot then all throughout the day on curve days. For the last two months, his numbers have been really high—250-550. I never even worried about too low of glucose levels because every test has been that high. Now, I'm a bit terrified! What could such a big influx in numbers mean??

Here's the schedule in case I didn't write it correctly above:
7:30 am - 1 can fancy feast and insulin shot
8:30 am - 350
10:30 am - 88

1:00 pm - 38 & 1/2 a can of Fancy Feast (this was his typical lunch time anyway)
2:00 pm - 44 & 1/2 can of Fancy Feast (my vet friend said if he will eat, to feed him more to help it stabilize)
4:30 pm - 65 & 1/2 can


His normal feeding schedule is breakfast at 7:30 am, lunch at 12-1:30 depending on when I get home, a snack at 4:30, dinner at 7:30 pm, snack at 10:30 pm.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
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In the thread title prefix, put question mark so @Wendy&Neko will see.
I'm not an expert at all, but you can also use honey or Karo syrup on gums if that low as well as high carb food.
 
First thing I would suggest setting up your signature and our spreadsheet so members can help you if you need it
Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help

Do you see mine about Tyler in gray letters
Have you read about Lantus and the 2 dosing methods you want to follow, they will tell you when an increase or decrease is needed
Just to let you know if you follow SLGS method anytime a kitty's BG drops under 90 you need to decrease by 0.25 units

If you follow TR and Dilly is under a year of diagnosis you would reduce if Dilly drops under 50

TR if diagnosed over a year you would reduce if the BG falls under 40

Those were pretty low BG numbers 38 and 44
I'm going to tag a fee members for you for advice
@Wendy&Neko
@tiffmaxee
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
@Marje and Gracie

Thanks ladies
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
First thing I would suggest setting up your signature and our spreadsheet so members can help you if you need it
Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help
Click to expand...

I've been meaning to do this, but it's been such a huge learning curve these past 2 months. I just now learned how to do the home glucose tests so I don't have to pay almost $200 for the vet to do the curves. Thank you so much for your help and advice! I am going to try to do this asap :)
 
Before you worry about things like signatures, continuous post, or changing titles, can you please make sure your cat isn't in dangerous numbers, if those are in fact the bg numbers (30s and 40s)?

To do this, feed some food. You can start with the low carb. If it is raising it. Just monitor the bg until it is over 50 and no longer on a downward trend.

If the low carb doesn't work, please give him higher carb food or rub honey on gums or add to food.

Thanks
 
If you ever need higher carbs than that
Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods


https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

10% and under is low carb
11% -15 is medium carbs.

16- 24 is high carb.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
If you ever need higher carbs than that
Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods


https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

10% and under is low carb
11% -15 is medium carbs.

16- 24 is high carb.
Click to expand...

Great idea! Thank you!
 
The lower numbers probably mean dose is too much and will need to be reduced. Can you check with your vet now? I know with DKA you have to be careful that kitty gets insulin but giving too large a shot could cause hypoglycemia and be dangerous.
What is last bg?
 
Gravy and Vicki said:
The lower numbers probably mean dose is too much and will need to be reduced. Can you check with your vet now? I know with DKA you have to be careful that kitty gets insulin but giving too large a shot could cause hypoglycemia and be dangerous.
What is last bg?
Click to expand...

My local vet told me to take him in . . . but all she said she could do was re-test him. So I just called my friend who is a vet. She told me to keep testing and feeding. And tonight, depending on his numbers, we may cut the insulin amount in half.

So I'm going to keep in touch with her. I know people in this forum tend to know even more than vets, so that's why I posted here.

I'm really wondering what is going on with him though . . . . his levels are usually SO high to the point I've been testing at home for ketones in his urine. Nothing has really changed, so I can't understand the drop. :(
 
Okay. That is a safe number. Under 50 on a human meter is unsafe. Please don't allow your cat's bg to go under 50 without raising it with food and monitoring every 15 minutes until the bg is over 50 and no longer trending downward. That is the only way to keep Dilly safe. Clerical issues take a backseat to low bgs.

Thank you.
 
His dose is too high for starters. Also, if you've changed his diet recently, that could be drastically changing his bgs. Meaning, if Dilly always ate high carb food and now eats low carb food, that could drastically change his numbers.

It is important to research the different dosing methods and determine which method you will be using. It can help be a guide for you. Even if you plan on using a method outside of this group and our protocol, via your vet. It is just important to establish some guidelines for you and Dilly.

This disease is overwhelming initially. You aren't doing anything wrong. Just please make sure to never be indifferent about low bgs. Again, the main goal is to keep Dilly safe.
 
Now that your cat is above 50, that is a good thing. Please test again in 1/2 hour to make sure he's at the same or higher number. Above 80 you can go to testing hourly.

The numbers you got said that the dose is too high. We decide how to dose Lantus based on how low it takes the cat and we don't want them below 50. (or 90 if on dry food or other high carb food). With a recent DKA kitty, cutting the dose in half is too much of a drop. But three units is too high. Are you using syringes to administer the insulin? Do they have half unit markings?

We don't normally suggest that people post on the Lantus forum until they have a spreadsheet of blood sugar numbers set up. Post #7 here Diane gave you the link to the Helping us Help You link that contains the information how to create the spreadsheet. And signature information that will answer a bunch of our questions at a quick glance. Without spreadsheet data, I cannot suggest what the dose should be reduced to, just know that it needs to be lower and down to 1.5 units is probably too big a drop in dose.

As far as testing in the AM, it's OK to give him a couple no carb snacks, like baked/boiled chicken breast pieces, or some freeze dried all meat treats while you are testing before feeding him. Eventually he will learn that main breakfast doesn't show up until after the blood test.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Now that your cat is above 50, that is a good thing. Please test again in 1/2 hour to make sure he's at the same or higher number. Above 80 you can go to testing hourly.

The numbers you got said that the dose is too high. We decide how to dose Lantus based on how low it takes the cat and we don't want them below 50. (or 90 if on dry food or other high carb food). With a recent DKA kitty, cutting the dose in half is too much of a drop. But three units is too high. Are you using syringes to administer the insulin? Do they have half unit markings?

We don't normally suggest that people post on the Lantus forum until they have a spreadsheet of blood sugar numbers set up. Post #7 here Diane gave you the link to the Helping us Help You link that contains the information how to create the spreadsheet. And signature information that will answer a bunch of our questions at a quick glance. Without spreadsheet data, I cannot suggest what the dose should be reduced to, just know that it needs to be lower and down to 1.5 units is probably too big a drop in dose.

As far as testing in the AM, it's OK to give him a couple no carb snacks, like baked/boiled chicken breast pieces, or some freeze dried all meat treats while you are testing before feeding him. Eventually he will learn that main breakfast doesn't show up until after the blood test.
Click to expand...


I will try to set all that up soon! It’s been a lot going on in our lives and the learning curve has been HUGE. But I do need to get everything set up so if something like this happens again I can get questions answered fast.
 
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