04/06/12 Ella PMPS 342, +2=329, +4 282 (keep testing?)

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Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434

Hi Tamara.
I just scanned through your thread from yesterday. Good luck with the transition to all wet food.
I hope you have a good Friday :)
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434

Good morning, Tamara.

Let's see how today goes. It's only one number, and not that different than before the transition.

I'm glad that Ella let you get some rest! :smile:
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409 (food question)

Thanks everyone,

Just checking in about the food again. I just gave her an 1/8 and she's still hungry. She's supposed to get 1 and a bit more than a 1/4 cans per day. Yesterday it was mentioned that giving her 1/2 can in the morning might overwhelm her pancreas but it may be what works best for my schedule. 1/2 can am,1/4 snack and 1/2 can pm. I can get a auto feeder but that means she will need to be isolated everyday as we have 3 other kitties.
Any suggestions?
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409 (food question)

Also, Am I doing a full curve today? Should I be testing every hour or is every two ok?
I have to run out for a family dinner immediately after the pm shot and won't be back until +3.
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409 (food question)

I have no advice on the food. When you do a curve, you can test every two hours. Have a great time at your family dinner and a great day!
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409 (food question)

It's really best if you can spread out the food a bit. The dry food takes time to get into the system and it hangs around, wet food gets in the system more quickly and doesn't hang around. One thing you could consider is moving your shot schedule earlier so that you can get a later meal in before you leave for work. The other advantage to doing that is that it will allow you to get a test or two before you leave, so you can get an idea if it will be an active cycle or not and plan accordingly...leave extra food out or slightly higher carb food, etc.

I would start with a +2, I'm a real fan of the +2 tests because it can give you an idea of which way Ella will go.

As far as later....let's see what happens. Good to know, we will see what happens and make a plan accordingly.
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409 (food question)

Oh that's a good idea! They wake me up at 6:30am anyways:)
How do I go about switching the dosing times and should I start doing that this weekend?

regarding food: if i do switch dosing times i would be able to feed at ps and then 1 hour later...is that enough time apart?
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409 (food question)

If you move your shot time to 6:30, how much earlier is it than when you're currently shooting? There are a couple of options. You can move a shot by 15 min. per shot or 30 min. once a day with minimal effect. Alternatively, if your cat is in high numbers, you could move the shot an hour earlier. (An early shot acts like a dose increase and a late shot acts like a dose reduction.) You can start moving the times at any point that it's convenient for you. Personally, I'd move he shot times sooner rather than later so Ella has time to adjust before you're back at work.

A curve is testing every 2 hours; a mini-curve is testing every 3 hours.

I divide Gabby's food and all of the servings are an hour apart.
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409 (food question)

Sienne gave you good info, I agree. I would start moving her shot time tonight.

The more extra time you can build into your morning schedule, the better. It's really to your advantage....it also gives you extra time to stall when you start seeing low preshots....and you will, in time! ;-)
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409 (food question)

Hi Tamara,
You can move the dosing time by 30 minutes a day (24-hour day), either all at once, or 15 minutes in the AM cycle and 15 minutes in the PM cycle. So if your preshot time this morning was 7:30, you can move it to 7 P.M. this evening, then I think you can go to 6:45 A.M. tomorrow morning, and to 6:30 P.M. tomorrow evening (so you will be on your new schedule tomorrow evening). Feeding in two stages an hour apart (AMPS and +1) would work better than feeding the whole amount at once (I understand that you have other kitties and therefore it would not be possible to use an auto feeder and have to keep Ella isolated).

Good luck today with your curve (a "full" curve is every 2 hours: AMPS +2 +4 +6 +8 +10 PMPS; a "mini" curve is every 3 hours: AMPS +3 +6 +9 PMPS)

Ella & Rusty

p.s. I see that while I was typing this you have already gotten good info. from Sienne and Laurie. Carry on!
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409 (food question)

Thanks everyone!

Ella is starving! She got a 1/8 at +1.5.
I should have divided the portions up more equally. She seems a bit agravated right now. I don't know how she will make it to 4:00pm tonight!

I have a question about keytones: is it true that a cat can get keytones from not eating enough food? I know they can get it from being hyper and having not enough insulin but I'm not too sure how the food works.

I haven't been able to catch her in the litter box as of late and i'm a bit nervous of her getting them if we have dropped her dose.
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409 (food question)

You should be testing for ketones regularly, so I would suggest stalking her to the litter box today. Ketones are related to not enough food (but you are giving her enough food, you just are feeding a different food....see Julie's comment last night about gaining weight!) plus not enough insulin plus infection.

I wouldn't feed her at +9, I would give her that snack sometime during the first half of the cycle, personally. Late snacks only push the PS numbers higher. If you still want to give her a snack at +9, I would make it very small, and give the rest of that food sometime this morning.

Kitties are very good at making us think they are starving....mine do it all the time! :lol: It's not good to overfeed though....not only does it make them gain weight, but it also makes it harder to regulate them.
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409 (food question)

If you move your shot time to 6:30, how much earlier is it than when you're currently shooting? There are a couple of options. You can move a shot by 15 min. per shot or 30 min. once a day with minimal effect. Alternatively, if your cat is in high numbers, you could move the shot an hour earlier. (An early shot acts like a dose increase and a late shot acts like a dose reduction.) You can start moving the times at any point that it's convenient for you. Personally, I'd move he shot times sooner rather than later so Ella has time to adjust before you're back at work.
Click to expand...

Sienne: Her current shot time is at 7:30am/pm. I will probably mover her 15 min per shot so tonight I will shoot at 7:15pm, then 7:00am,6:45pm,6:30am.
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409 (food question)

Hi Laurie,

I usually give her a snack at +9 because that's when I get home from work and she is starving. Unless I use an auto feeder, I won't be able to give her food earlier in the day. Do you think it is better to feed small increments throughtout the day and be isolated for 9 hours or feed more and have free run of the house? It's tricky cause she will not have the ability to have access to her favourite spots but if it's needed then I will do it.
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409 (food question)

and I'm not sure why i haven't caught her in the litter box...it's in my bedroom. she was going like clock work up unitl a few days ago. now she's more unpredicatable.

am going to test now. she looks agitated and is having a hard time relaxing.
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409 (food question)

I know it's tricky, I have two kitties and my civie is a piggie, so the autofeeder doesn't work well for us....similar problem. What I did early in our journey was freeze small portions of food in an ice cube tray (mix with water first) and leave a few out in bowls, in hopes that Mr Tinkles would get at least some of the food when it thawed out. You might try that...I would try it while you are home so you can see what happens.

If you have to, isolating Ella with the autofeeder or frozen pucks may be the answer...but I don't blame you for prefering not to do that. Is she very bonded with your other cats?
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409 (food question)

Hi again,
If it were I, I would not isolate Ella. You don't want her diabetes to be an added distress to her by depriving her of her favorite spots or the company of her kitty companions. I don't see why you can't give her a small snack at +9 (Rusty always gets a little snack at +9 or thereabouts). Since you planned (in your new feeding schedule) to give her a +9 snack of 1/4 can (which is quite a lot of food), what I would do instead is give her most of that 1/4 can as part of her PS and +1 feeding and reserve just a little (a little more than a teaspoon) to give at +9. That way she gets more at the beginning of the cycle, when her body can make the best use of the food, and just a little to perk her up toward the end of the cycle (but not enough to pull up her numbers too much prior to PMPS). Give it a try. Everything is trial and error in FD!!!

YOu're doing fine,

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327

+2 =327

No she's not bonded with any of the cats! She's the QUEEN BEE and likes to have her pick of the spots!

Unfortunately, I have a cat that is on hypo allergnic food and can't get into anything other than what he eats. I can't isolate him or he'll go haywire!

It's pretty ridiculous around here...all four cats eat different food and have their own isolated feeding spots.
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327

You are a good bean, going to such lengths to make sure everyone gets what they need. :-D Thanks for the explanation, it might work better then to just try to move the shot earlier and feed the PS, +1 (or right before you leave.) As Ella (Rusty) said, it will take some trial and error to see what works for you and Ella.

If you run into the situation down the road that she looks like she may run lower while you are gone, you may need to isolate her with some food....just tossing it out there for you to think about.

She may be a little restless because she feels her BG dropping. I would get a +4. You're doing fine! :smile:
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327

Awe thanks Laurie!!!
I try my best:)

@ Ella: Thanks for the tips. I like the idea of feeding her a bit less at +9. She'd lose her mind if I took that away from her!
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327

good morning! glad you've gotten a food plan worked out!

i also am noting that there is a 82 pt drop between the preshot and the +2. in many cats, that signals an "active" cycle, meaning that they may go lower than they would if the preshot and +2 were the same numbers.

this morning i think i'd get a +4 and +5 and see how they compare with each other. last night we were wondering if her nadir was going to be early.
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327, +4 371

+4 371

going higher!

Do u still want a +5 or just a 6?
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327, +4 371

negative ketones...phew!

ok..so i haven't totally figured out the food yet. so please remind me...is it not good to feed near nadir? i realize we don't know when that is but if she wanted a snack now would that interfere with her insulin?
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327, +4 371

a +6 is fine. whatever you want. tomorrow you can get different hours. you don't have to check every 2 hours today - maybe catch a +6 and a +9.

she's not in any danger, you're getting plenty of tests for us to see that.

when i started with punkin, i got +3, +6 and +9, then when i had enough data to see that he usually was at his lowest by +6, i mostly i skipped the +9 after then and just got the pmps.
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327, +4 371

Hey Julie,
Can you please check out my question about the food? I think I hit send around the time you were answeirng my last question:)
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327, +4 371

probably depends on how much - yes, it's good to keep most of the food before the nadir, but some cats free-feed and do ok. there's not a "This Is The Answer!" to your questions about food.

just keep a note of what you're doing in your spreadsheet comments section and at some point someone may go

:idea: "i think feeding past her nadir is causing x"

overall, you are mainly wanting to maintain her weight and to give most of the food with the shot and in the ensuing 4ish hours.

tell her punkin goes from +3 to the next shot (that's 9 hours) with no food except his bite of chicken after a pokey. he doesn't like it, but once he realized that was when the restaurant served, he's accepted it now. :lol:

edited to add - here he is, in fact, complaining about his lack of food. he's eaten the normal amount, but the day before he'd gotten a lot extra with gravy because of low numbers. that's what he's wanting here:

[youtube]CJIigPozytU&feature=g-upl&context=G299befbAUAAAAAAAIAA[/youtube]
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327, +4 371

LOL the restaurant!!

I was just comparing the calories she got when she was on m/d dry and that was 123 at ps. I only gave her about 100 so perhaps she's hurtin' a bit:)
I'll make her hold out as long as I can:)
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327, +4 371

Awe punkin...such a cutie!!! He's got a big boy meow!

She's beggin hard right now. It's interesting that she does that when she's high. I wouldn't want more sugar if I was feeling awful!
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327, +4 371

:lol: poor Punkin! Consider yourself lucky, Julie....Mr Tinkles comes over and uses my leg as a scratching post when he thinks I've violated the "feed me contract!" :shock:

I always noticed that Mr Tinkles was ravenous when he was very high or very low. In between, not so much. However, until she gets regulated somewhat, she will likely continue to try to convince you she is starving no matter how much you feed her. Here's a good thread that explains the reason for that.

I see Julie is here, and Ella is on her way up. I have errands to run, I'll check back later on.... :smile:
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327, +4 371

that was a good post, laurie, i went ahead and bumped it up for others to see.

tamara, his voice is from the acromegaly - the hormones make them grow, including punkin's voice. it changed quite a bit - he used to sound like a cat, now he sounds like he's swallowed something. but i love the little guy, weirdo non-cat voice and all!
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327, +4 371

His meow is so cute:)
My foster kitty named Nestor has a similar voice. It took me a while to get used to but I find it so endearing:)

@ laurie...thanks for the post. I finally worked out portions that I think may work for little Ms. Ella. According to what I've got, she did lose out on an 1/8 this mornings feed. Can something like as little as not getting an 1/8 contribute to keytones or do they have to be really starved to they start dipping into their fat?

can you tell I'm nervous about keytones?????
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327, +4 371,+6 295

Hi Tamara!
You are doing just fine!

I have been quite relaxed with Kitty's diet - other than it must be wet food only. He and Joey get one FF can each every morning and evening, so effectively they are free fed, as I do not portion control the food through out the day.
on the first day of wet food only you may not get too much change in Ella's BG readings, unless she is very sensitive to carbs.

Is she ok eating wet food only, or is she demanding dry food also?

- mia
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327, +4 371,+6 295

Hi Mia,

She's only on wet now! I'm sure she'd like the dry but it has been hidden!
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327, +4 371,+6 295

i don't think you have to obsess about the ketones. if you can get a test, then it would relieve your mind. to test punkin, i have a separate box with lentils in it. took a cardboard box lid, slipped it inside a plastic garbage bag, and dumped in a bunch of ordinary lentils. then after he eats, i put him in the laundry room with nothing to do in there but the box. he pees and gets out, and i can check it.

you can use anything non-absorbent - people use aquarium gravel too. the key to checking for ketones is that the pee must be fairly fresh and you must time the strip exactly as it says in the instructions.

it might take another day or so for the carbs from the dry food to work out of her system. i think it's interesting that we might've guessed her nadir was early, around +3 from this morning's numbers, but here is a +6 that is lower. until we're sure all the carbs are out the numbers might not be too predictable in following a regular curve.

i'm headed out for lunch with my husband, but you're doing just fine. keep on keeping on!
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327, +4 371

tpr said:
His meow is so cute:)
My foster kitty named Nestor has a similar voice. It took me a while to get used to but I find it so endearing:)

@ laurie...thanks for the post. I finally worked out portions that I think may work for little Ms. Ella. According to what I've got, she did lose out on an 1/8 this mornings feed. Can something like as little as not getting an 1/8 contribute to keytones or do they have to be really starved to they start dipping into their fat?

can you tell I'm nervous about keytones?????
Click to expand...

I know you are nervous about ketones, I'm glad that you are aware of the risk and testing! :smile: Sometimes I feel like the ketone police, I'm always bugging people to test. ;-)

I think missing a small portion is not an issue, but you could give the missing portion to her. You could add it to a later feeding if you want to, or give an extra snack. Just be aware that she may think she is always entitled to that extra snack! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm heading out to finish errands...I'm not ready for Easter yet! Yikes! :shock:
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327, +4 371,+6 295

I cracked and gave her a extra snack :oops:
Just a little 1/8 at +6.5. She was clearly not satisfied but beggers can't be choosers.

She won't be used to getting snacks during the day as we're not home. This was a 'special' occasion!

Good luck getting ready for Easter Laurie! Don't forget to treat yourself with a chocolate egg:)
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327, +4 371,+6 295

Enjoy your lunch Julie!!! Is it nice and sunny in Oregon? It's one of my favourite states!!!!
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327, +4 371,+6 295

we've had the wettest march on record - like 3x the amount of rain that's normal with quite a bit of flooding. last week we had snow, even. we've had hail about 3 days in a row now, which is really unusual. but today - WAHOO there is sunshine out there. some clouds too, so it may not last, but i'm thinking a visit to the garden store after lunch might be really nice.

we're in western oregon, about an hour in from the coast - it's almost always sunny in eastern oregon, but that sun comes with hot summers and snowy winters. we're actually in a temperate rain forest (which i didn't know til one of my kids learned it in school and reported!)
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327, +4 371,+6 295

Sorry to hear about all of your rain and hail!!! We've had the exact opposite experience in Toronto! We've had the warmest and sunniest March. People were wearing shorts for a couple of days...it was nuts!

I've seen the redwood forests on the coast and stayed with some friends in Bend. I used to live in Vancouver and did the drive to Mexico a few times. It's a gorgeous drive:)

Enjoy the sunshine with your hubby!
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327, +4 371,+6 295

Hi Tamara:

I'm often late posting but just wanted to check in and I see several very wise ladies have been here discussing food, etc. I'll be around and on the board tonight so Laurie and Sienne can get some rest; I'm sure my West Coast pal, Julie, will also be around tonight. Hopefully, we'll start to see some positive changes.

Poor little starving Ella!!! :-D
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327, +4 371,+6 295+9= 3

Thanks for checking in Marjorie!
+9 354 I just fed her 1/8 for a snack and she is not happy about these small portions!
Hopefully she'll enjoy her evening meal as she'll get more. I feel sorry for her:(

FYI: I'm heading out early and my partner is in charge. He's going to text me the data and I'll plug it in from where I'm at. At this rate she'll be getting her 1 unit.
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella +11 434,PS 409,+2 =327, +4 371,+6 295 PMPS

PMPS 342

Off to dinner:) Will get my partner to do a +2!

Thanks for all of your continued support:)
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella PMPS 342

i would think he could get a +2 or +3 tonight, and then a +4 or +5 and if it's similar to today's call it a night and start again tomorrow.

i'm actually out tonight - marje will be surprised, but i'll be gone for a couple of hours for a movie. :-D

enjoy your evening out.
 
Re: 04/06/12 Ella PMPS 342, +2=329, +4 282

+2 329, +4 282

Should I stay up since she's going lower?

Hope you have fun at the movies Julie!
 
Hi Tamara!

Well...I can't believe Julie is leaving me. What nerve :lol: :lol: :lol:

Let me look at her SS, k? Usually, I like to have a couple rising numbers; can you sleep/test? BRB.
 
Okey doke...I'd get a +6 and see where she's at. If she's still headed down, I'd test her again two hours later UNLESS she takes a big drop. I don't anticipate that she would drop that much that late but she might.

So if you can set an alarm and get up at +6, that would be great. If she's still coming down, set the alarm again and retest to make sure she's coming up. Some cats like to go a little lower at night so we just want
to be sure she's headed up before you call it quits.

Good job, Tamara!!
 
I know...she's SO selfish :lol:

I can sleep and test....

Why can't Ella have these falling numbers during the day...geez!
 
I ask that of Gracie every day :lol: :lol:

But I have to say she is SO much more predicatable on levemir than she ever was on lantus.....

Hope you get some rest. I'll check back in in a couple hours.
 
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