04/03 Eddie AMPS +12 65 +12.25 59 +12.65 104 +.65 220 +1.5 216 +2.5 178 +3.5 153 +6.5 139 PMPS 272 +

@12.65 104. I fed him full meal LC + some HC added.

Reduced insulin from 11u to 10u. Am at home until +4. Will monitor and give HC before I leave. Will return home @ +7
 
Hi Jodey, did you shoot a number below 68? Aren't you using a pet meter?

ETA: I can't see the numbers on your SS. Could you please list them out on the condo? He's up to 104 now?
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Hi Jodey, did you shoot a number below 68? Aren't you using a pet meter?
Click to expand...
Hi Bhooma, no, I waited until he was at 104 (after feeding) and then reduced dose to 10u (from 11u). I am home for the next while and will monitor and feed if necessary. I have to be away for a couple of hours for work but will feed HC (if necessary) before I have to leave @ +4.

Thanks for being there!
 
The 104 was how long after HC and karo? 12.65 is 35-40 mins after +12?
He could still dip after the carb wear off. When you get a lime preshot, you want to feed a little LC first (depending on how low the lime is).

These are the guidelines but they are for a human meter:

"Some general rules when stalling (ECID):
  • 50s or higher – don’t feed. The number will bump up on its own soon due to the insulin wearing off.
  • 40s or lower – you have a couple of choices.
    • When 40s occur at the end of the cycle, it can be beneficial to withhold food and test in 15-20 minutes to determine if kitty is on the rise or hasn’t reached nadir yet.
    • If they are hanging in the 40s for a while, or if they are still dropping, it is ok to feed a tsp or two of LC and retest. This is very tricky. You want to avoid feeding too much while you’re waiting for them to go over 50, because you don’t want to artificially inflate the number with food.
      • Example: if kitty is 43 and you feed a whole meal, or feed some HC, and the number bumps up to 52, is that the cat’s natural end-of-cycle rise, or is it food spike? What if it is food spike? Then if you shoot the 52, when the food wears off he might drop back to the 40’s (and when insulin kicks in a couple of hours later, you might have a problem). If the 52 is the cat’s natural rise, then he will probably keep rising for the next few hours until insulin kicks in. If you can’t tell whether the number is food spike or natural rise, it’s safest to wait. Your data will help you here. Study the spreadsheet. How much food spike does the cat usually get? How many hours after the shot does the insulin’s onset usually occur in this cat? At what number is the cat likely to be when onset occurs? If the cat does drop, how easy/hard is it to regain control of the numbers? How carb sensitive is he?
  • Test often (every 15-20 minutes, or at most every 30 minutes). You want to catch the rise the minute it starts. With most of our cats, once they start to rise they will really zoom. You want to get the insulin in as soon as possible, because it will be another 2-3 hours before the insulin kicks in and you don’t want to let the cycle get too far ahead of you."
 
Bandit's Mom said:
The 104 was how long after HC and karo? 12.65 is 35-40 mins after +12?
He could still dip after the carb wear off. When you get a lime preshot, you want to feed a little LC first (depending on how low the lime is).

These are the guidelines but they are for a human meter:

"Some general rules when stalling (ECID):
  • 50s or higher – don’t feed. The number will bump up on its own soon due to the insulin wearing off.
  • 40s or lower – you have a couple of choices.
    • When 40s occur at the end of the cycle, it can be beneficial to withhold food and test in 15-20 minutes to determine if kitty is on the rise or hasn’t reached nadir yet.
    • If they are hanging in the 40s for a while, or if they are still dropping, it is ok to feed a tsp or two of LC and retest. This is very tricky. You want to avoid feeding too much while you’re waiting for them to go over 50, because you don’t want to artificially inflate the number with food.
      • Example: if kitty is 43 and you feed a whole meal, or feed some HC, and the number bumps up to 52, is that the cat’s natural end-of-cycle rise, or is it food spike? What if it is food spike? Then if you shoot the 52, when the food wears off he might drop back to the 40’s (and when insulin kicks in a couple of hours later, you might have a problem). If the 52 is the cat’s natural rise, then he will probably keep rising for the next few hours until insulin kicks in. If you can’t tell whether the number is food spike or natural rise, it’s safest to wait. Your data will help you here. Study the spreadsheet. How much food spike does the cat usually get? How many hours after the shot does the insulin’s onset usually occur in this cat? At what number is the cat likely to be when onset occurs? If the cat does drop, how easy/hard is it to regain control of the numbers? How carb sensitive is he?
  • Test often (every 15-20 minutes, or at most every 30 minutes). You want to catch the rise the minute it starts. With most of our cats, once they start to rise they will really zoom. You want to get the insulin in as soon as possible, because it will be another 2-3 hours before the insulin kicks in and you don’t want to let the cycle get too far ahead of you."
Click to expand...
Hi Bhooma, I think this is in part an SRT thing. The last time this happened I was "stalling" and then heard from both JL and Wendy:

From JL February 22, 2023 LOW PS

The 40’s reference and guidelines you quoted are for a human meter. They are NOT APPLICABLE WHEN USING AN ALPHATRAK METER (or any pet meter).

Remember, human meters run lower than pet meters so the guidelines and reference ranges for human meters are lower.

That 49 on an AT is dangerously low. In those circumstances, I believe you need to feed and/or give syrup immediately and get his BG back over 70 ASAP. Don’t wait and “see what happens.”

I’m glad Eddie’s BG came back up. He was definitely showing clues of breaking the bounce. In the future, it would have been interesting to see what he did between mid cycle and PMPS.

Eddie seems to be clearly stating he wants a dose decrease. Once you reduce the prednisolone, you might have a few more such bumpy rides.
clip_image002.jpg


_______________

Pertinent info in red. Eddie was at 49 PS and I was thinking the 65 (on an AT) called for the same response...i.e.; feed, check, feed, check, if numbers coming up, shoot (with reduction). I'm and just tested: he's shot time + 40minutes: 220. I know that's the food, etc. and will monitor him as I've mentioned.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Hi Jodey, did you shoot a number below 68? Aren't you using a pet meter?

ETA: I can't see the numbers on your SS. Could you please list them out on the condo? He's up to 104 now?
Click to expand...
Hi Bhooma, I filled in the sheet after I posted. He was @220 at .65 (post shot). I'm just about to test again for +1.5
 
AM +2.5 178. I gave him some MC+dab HC. Will test again at +3 and +3.5 and then I have to leave for work but back @ +7....

Will feed him again @ +3.5 (and probably at +3).
 
We say that Lantus and Levemir teach us patience, Eddie even more so! :eek: FYI, the correct subject line should be +12 65 +12.25 59 AMPS 104 etc. That shows you stalled instead of shooting those too low numbers. It's also April 3rd today, not the second. :p For the spreadsheet, you can put the +12 65 +12.25 in the +11 cell from last night (since it's not being used). And then in the AMPS cell put 104@12.65 so we can see how late it was.

I know the guidelines being from a human meter have been problematic for you before. And that you have considered switching to a human meter, at some point. I hope you also know that the AT2 is being discontinued and AT2 test strips will no longer be available for sale as of September this year. There will be an AT3, but why bother, it takes completely different test strips. Details here.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
We say that Lantus and Levemir teach us patience, Eddie even more so! :eek: FYI, the correct subject line should be +12 65 +12.25 59 AMPS 104 etc. That shows you stalled instead of shooting those too low numbers. It's also April 3rd today, not the second. :p For the spreadsheet, you can put the +12 65 +12.25 in the +11 cell from last night (since it's not being used). And then in the AMPS cell put 104@12.65 so we can see how late it was.

I know the guidelines being from a human meter have been problematic for you before. And that you have considered switching to a human meter, at some point. I hope you also know that the AT2 is being discontinued and AT2 test strips will no longer be available for sale as of September this year. There will be an AT3, but why bother, it takes completely different test strips. Details here.
Click to expand...
Ok, I have to leave for work, stat. I've given him some MC+some HC and will rush home, test, fix SS and update. Thank you.
And, yes, I heard about the AT3. Kind of like iPhone.
 
Stay safe Eddie!
Jodey&Eddie&Blue said:
And, yes, I heard about the AT3. Kind of like iPhone.
Click to expand...
Actually not so much. Zoetis bought the AT2 and it's manufacturing from Abbott a number of years ago. I've been waiting for this to happen. Typically the "new owner" will decide to make things the way they want over time.
 
@Wendy&Neko Made it home for the +6.5 139, which is lower than +3.5 but not precariously.

My concern/question will be for PM. I've decreased the dose as you can see but what if I should run into another low number, besides trying to bring the numbers back up but I've already kept the numbers up today with food, including just now @AM 6.5...

Leave it to Eddie, right?
 
Depending on where he is at PMPS, you could always give him a one time BCS (reduced dose) to reduce the depot. 139 is safe, LC should be all he needs.
 
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