03-18 Furball AMPS=401

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carfurby (GA)

carfurby (GA)

Member Since 2012
Friday: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=66393

Me and my cat, Furball, are new at this. I posted a few times in the main health forum and others suggested I post here. My cat was diagnosed in early Feburary. My vet had me change her diet from free feeding dry food and some canned food in the evening to canned food twice a day. She eats 3/4 of a can of 9 Lives Tuna and Egg or 9 Lives Super Supper. Although there are some days she doesn't want to eat very much. This seems odd to me as I keep reading diabetic cats are usually very hungry.

My vet had me start Lantus, 2 units, twice a day this weekend. I gave the first dose Friday morning. I couldn't get a glucose reading, but gave the dose anyway since I was home to monitor her. I didn't know anything about checking her glucose during the day at this point. I have now been told this is a good idea. I checked her glucose before her evening meal and dose and it was 67. I called the vet and was told to feed, check the glucose an hour later, and give the shot if it was above 60. This made me nervous, as I wouldn't be able to monitor her all night. I posted to the health forum and the general opinion was to not give the shot. I held off for the evening shot.

This morning I was unable to get a glucose reading. Furball didn't want to eat very much, so I didn't give the shot. I was very tired and stressed and not thinking clearly. I realize now it would have been a good idea to at least give 1 unit, since I would be home to monitor her and she wouldn't have to wait 24 hrs. for her next dose.

I have a lot of trouble getting Furball to sit still for the glucose testing. Sometimes I can't get a blood drop or it is so small she moves and it smears.

Any advice on how to proceed or better ways to help Furball is greatly appreciated.
 
Re: 03-17 Furball AMPS=?

Hi and welcome to Lantus Land. I'm wondering if anyone gave you the links to the testing hints and tips? I'll go get them for you in another post but first let me tell you what I do.

I use a rice sock, just an old sock that you can cut to size, fill with rice, use a ribbon to tie it closed and warm it in the microwave. I hold the warm sock against the ear until it is good and warm, maybe a minute or 30 xeconds if she's antsy. I give treats and talk to Racci the whole time. Meanwhile I have everything ready ahead of time sitting next to me in reach, the meter with the strip sitting in it just not pushed in, the lancet pen and some neosporin with pain relief and tissues and a thick tissue pad to hold in front of the ear when I poke from the back. the neosporin with pain relief obviously will help the pain but it also helpss by not letting the hair soak up the blood.

Once the ear is warm, put on the neosporin, poke, making sure your pad behind the ear is behind your poke, grab your meter, get the blood and you're done. continue to give treats and talk and tell your baby how good she is the whole time.

If you have to, a lot of cats need to start out with a cat burrito . Just wrap them in a towel or blankket like you would with a baby or a burrito whith the arms inside so she can't get away from you. Please ask if any questions. I'll go get thos links for you.

Melanie & Racci
 
Re: 03-17 Furball AMPS=?

http://www.felinediabetes.com/bg-test.htm This one is info
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267/chupie_2006/testingear/sweetspot.jpg picture of the 'sweet spot'
http://pearlthediabeticcat.blogspot.com/2007/08/is-it-easy-to-test-cat.html 'videos'

To research on your own:
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287

I hope this helps. Ultimately you want to make it fun for her. Racci comes willingly when it's time now because she gets fed every time the test is done and treats the whole time she's being tested and it's fun for her to be told how wonderful she is, as do most fo the cats. If you have to burrito the first few times to keep her there, do it as loose as you can get away with while still keeping her still so she doesn't hate it and still tell her how wonderful she is and give treats and some food she loves afterwards. (low carb of course)

Melanie & Racci
 
Re: 03-17 Furball AMPS=?

Hi there, Melanie has given you a lot of great info. Testing is hard for everyone at first - it does get easier, I promise. When I first started testing I was so nervous that Bailey picked up on it, and then she was nervous too. Try to take some deep breaths and get yourself calm first. And make sure you give a treat (for both of you!) even if you aren't successful at getting blood.

When I test Bailey, I put her next to me on the couch so she is between me and the arm of the couch - this seems to give me some control because she can't wiggle backwards or sideways while I am testing. The kitty burrito is always an option too - it won't be something you have to do forever, but it can help while you are learning and gaining confidence.

Good luck! And be sure to ask more questions if you have them!
 
Re: 03-17 Furball AMPS=?

the advice you got on Health is right. For cats w/out a lot of data to understand how they react, we advise new members not to shoot when a BG is below 150. You will see many of us shoot lower, but we have a lit of information to know how our cats will react.

Welcome to Lantus Land. You've been given a lot of good tip. If you use the neosporin, get the one w/ pain relief as it numbs the ear. don't put on too much as it can block up the strip.

Some cats don't like the sound of the lancet device. We free hand. I hold the lancet at a 45º angle and just Barely poke w/ a slight twisting motion. Also try "milking" the ear. After the prick gently stroke toward the test spot to move the blood in the ear there. An advantage to free handing is that if you don't get a large enough drop you can do a second light prick right next to the first and work the two together.

Another thing is when you pet get her used to your touching her ears. I always pet and stroke Tess's ears and she is very used to having them handled now.

This one sounds weird but you can clip old fashioned clothes pins to the scruff of the neck. It mimics the way a mother cat carries her babies and calms cats down very well. I'll try to find the link w/ pix.
 
Re: 03-17 Furball AMPS=?

welcome to Lantus Land to you and furball, carla! i'm chuckling at your member name - we used to have a furby here at our house - they are so funny!

we'll be glad to help you get started! you've been given a lot of good information. i'd add that the trouble with getting a drop of blood is one we all had at the beginning. as you poke more, furball's ears will grow more capillaries and then you'll get blood all the time. it's very frustrating and i think everyone has done the 5 pokes in order to get blood, or 5 pokes and not able to get any blood, at the beginning. hang in there and know your pokes aren't for nothing! just make sure you give a treat every single time you've sat down with her and tried.

let's try to help you get to a better starting dose that doesn't cause a wild up and down pattern for her. how much does she weigh? and do you know what her BG was at diagnosis?

is she only on the canned food now? absolutely no dry kibbles?
 
Re: 03-17 Furball AMPS=?

just looked up those foods - the tuna & egg bits is 8carbs, the super supper is 5carbs. so those are both fine for following the Tight Reg protocol.

would you take a look at the sticky that's called "New to the Group? Start Here" just above everyone's regular posts? it's got a yellow star next to the left column. that's a great starting point.

people here usually respond fairly quickly to posts, so you'll want to check back often and answer or ask any questions that you have.
 
Re: 03-17 Furball AMPS=?

Welcome to Lantus Land!!

There is a huge learning curve so please, let us know how we can help. The people here are very generous with their time and their information.

The best place to start learning is to read the starred, sticky notes at the top of the Board. They contain a great deal of basic information on how this Board works, how to get the most out of your Lantus, key concepts, and links to volumes of information. Below is an outline:
  • Tight Regulation Protocol: This sticky contains the dosing protocol that we use here. There are also links to the more formal versions -- the Tilly Protocol developed by the counterpart of this group in Germany and the Queensland/Rand protocol developed by Jacqui Rand, DVM and published in one of the top vet journals.
  • New to the Group: Everything you wanted to know about this forum and more. Info on our slang, FAQs, links to sites on feline nutrition and to food charts containing carb counts, how to do a curve and the components to look for, important aspects of diabetes such as ketones, DKA, and neuropathy, and most important, info on hypoglycemia.
  • Handling Lantus: how to get the maximum use from your insulin and what to not do with it!
  • Lantus depot/shed: This is an important concept for understanding how Lantus works.
  • Lantus & Levemir: Shooting & Handling Low Numbers: What data you need in order to be able to work toward remission or tight regulation as well as information if you have a low pre-shot number or a drop into low numbers during the cycle.
 
Re: 03-17 Furball AMPS=?

Thanks for all of the great information. I have a lot of reading to do. I tried the trick with the clothespins this evening when I needed to get the blood drop and it worked pretty well. She sat still while I did the prick, but then tried to move away a little, but didn't go very far. I also used this trick when I had to give her the insulin shot. She would not sit still at all until I did.

When Furball was first diagnosed in early February, her glucose level from the bloodwork the vet did was 324. When I started the glucose testing a couple of weeks ago, I was getting readings in the 270 something to the 290 something range on average. I was testing each morning and evening before I fed her.

Part of the problem I have with getting a blood drop is that I can only do one ear. She has an ear infection in the other ear and is very sensitive if it is touched.

She is totally on a canned food diet, except for the low carb treats I give her when I test her glucose. Furball weighs about 11 pounds 8 ounces, give or take a few ounces.
 
Re: 03-17 Furball AMPS=?

Hi Carla, and welcome to Lantus Land!

I can't add any more advice than what the others above have. I didn't even know about the "clothespin trick"! :o

I would like to suggest though that every time you get a new blood glucose reading you go back to your original post and change the subject line. So you new subject line right now would look like this " 03-17 Furball - PMPS 259" then each subsequent BG reading you would add on to it.

This gives everyone a quick overview in your subject line about how Furball's glucose curve is going.
 
Re: 03-17 Furball AMPS=?

Hi Carla, we all start a new thread each day, but we update the subject line throughout that day. So for your 3/17 thread you can put any/all tests you get today, and then once it's AMPS time on 3/18 you will start a new thread. Make sense?

Sorry to hear about the ear infection, that is no fun for anyone. :sad: Is Furball on any ear drops or other meds for it? The infection can also raise BG, you may see a drop in numbers once the infection clears.
 
Re: 03-17 Furball AMPS=?

Hi Carla, I see you updated the subject line of your response below but you have to go back to the very first post you made in this thread for us to see it in the subject line in the general forum view.
 
Re: 03-17 Furball AMPS=?

ok, let me see if we've got things straight:

she weighs 11lb8oz approx (=5.3kg)
diagnosed in early february with a BG of 324
tested pre-meal 2x a day since then with BG's of 270-290ish

you started insulin Friday 3/16 am with 2units - was the 247 AFTER Furball ate or before?
friday evening BG was 67 so you skipped the shot
sat am skipped shot
sat mid-day 355, ~29hrs from last shot
sat pm 259 2units

according to the guidelines of the Tight Regulation Protocol (see the link above that sienne gave you), she would start at 1.3units per dose (5.3kg x .25u lantus). for ease of measuring we would have you start at 1unit.

you're going to want to monitor her tonight. can you get a +2 (test 2 hrs after her shot) and post it in your subject line, along with the preshot BG, as Cathy suggested above.

that will let people watch for you in case you need help. based upon the 2 shots you've given and the BG's you've measured, it looks like 2units is too much. i realize you've already shot tonight, so we'll watch for you. if your test 2 hrs after the shot is significantly lower than the 259 at preshot, that will tell us that she may need some carbs to help her. it's not freak-out-worthy, i'm just giving you a heads-up because there's no way you would know otherwise.
 
Re: 03-17 Furball AMPS=?

I had absolutely no luck trying to get a +2 hour test just a little bit ago. I tried without the clothespins and did as I have been doing. I couldn't get any blood with the first prick, so I had to try a second. She "freaked out" on me. I have never had her react this way. She was hissing and running from me. I doubt I can get another reading tonight. I really need to get some sleep in a little bit. Lack of sleep is what caused me the problem this morning with not giving her a shot.
 
Re: 03-17 Furball AMPS=?

I realize keeping an eye on her is important, but if I don't take care of myself I will make mistakes that hurt her.
 
I finally figured out how to change the subject of the post as someone suggested to keep my information in one place. Sorry I didn't post sooner, but some animal kept me up most of the early morning hours and I had to go back to sleep after I took care of Furball. She was fine this morning. No signs of hypoglycemia. I couldn't get a reading before I fed her. I got a very small blood drop that just smeared when I tried. I talked to my vet and she said to give her 2 units even if I couldn't get a reading. I was finally able to get a reading about 2 hours after she ate. Since it was 401, I gave her the 2 units.

She has been fighting me a lot on holding still for the ear pricks and the insulin. The clothespin trick didn't even work this morning. She just started hissing and shaking her head. I think I am hitting the same areas on her ear and it is hurting her. Poor kitty. Her ear looks pretty bruised right now. I can only do one ear because of her ear infection and there only seems to be a small area that gives blood. The pictures of the sweet spot is an area I cannot get blood from.

I'm going to try and get +3 and +6 hour readings today and a reading before her next shot, but probably not anything else. I think her ear needs a break.
 
I managed to get a +3 1/2 reading. It was 197.

Another problem I have had pricking her ear is that she jerks her head right out of my hand just as I prick. I hate this because it tears her ear a little. Not only does it hurt her more, it takes longer to heal. Has anyone else had this problem? It is like I need three hands to be able to do it properly. One to hold her ear, one to hold her head and one to get the blood sample.
 
oh yeah. punkin has become the master of flicking his ear and ducking his head. it's very aggravating.

couple things that might help her ears - are you using the neosporin ointment with pain relief? we slather it on generously at the end of every day and that seems to really help the ear heal overnight. wipe it off before the next test so it doesn't goo up your strip. i tried it on myself where the cats had scratched my foot and it's really great for making the owie go away.

also, are you applying pressure and staunching the poked site after you've gotten the blood drop? that's what prevents bruising - a bruise is bleeding under the skin.

just fyi - with lantus most cats don't show obvious signs of low numbers/hypoglycemia until it's really bad. i've tested punkin a couple of times in the 30's and would never have known it by his behavior. you don't want to rely on behavior to guess what her blood sugar is doing. the older insulins that were harsher and not long-acting were more obvious in that way, but lantus and lev are ones that you must test to know what's going on.

this will get infinitely easier. at the beginning they just don't have as many capillaries and it is hard to get that precious little drop of blood. keep trying, keep giving treats (don't forget the chocolate for you too!) and it gets easier!!! :YMHUG:
 
Hey Carla. Practice makes perfect on doing the ear pricks. You and Furby will get used to it over time. You are doing great! Persistence pays off!

Just a couple of things:

* Good job in figuring our how to update/edit your first post in each thread that you start. But, each day we start a new thread and put a URL link to the previous day in the first post of the next days thread. This helps in not having to scroll through days and days of posts to get to the most recent info for that day.

* When you feed and then test before you shoot, you are not getting an accurate blood glucose reading. The reading you are seeing when you do that is influenced by the food you just fed and often is higher. What we usually do as a best practice here in the Tight Regulation forum is Test ->Feed ->Shoot, that way you know if kitty's BG is too low to shoot. Also, testing first and then feeding acts as a reward for being good and staying still for Mammabean :-D

Getting a +3 and a +6 reading sounds like a good approach. Keep on posting those readings! :thumbup
 
i would really encourage you to drop her dose while you're getting the hang of testing. it won't hurt her and it may protect her. 1 unit, or even .5u is a really common starting dose for cats on lantus, especially since you've switched her over to low-carb canned food. that alone changes the game plan.

it's a little less nerve-wracking than having to worry about them going low when you aren't able to get the blood to test. just for safety, we'd rather see a cat in high numbers for a few days than going too low.
 
H there, we are relatively new here to so just wanted to say hi and reassure you that you are in good hands!!! Hang in there, it gets easier (I won't say it gets less confusing at times!) and the people here know their stuff and are a wonderful support group! Good luck with Furball (we had a cat named Puffball!)...looking forward to seeing you posting some pretty numbers!
 
Especially since you are having a hard time getting tests, it is better to be safe. 2 units is a high starting dose and lantus builds up a shed or depot. It takes a few days for the full strength of the dose to become available to the cat. If you are trying to get results right away , you may get a sudden shock of plummeting BG numbers once the shed is full and Lantus really starts to work.

Do as Julie suggested and put pressure on the ear for at least 20 seconds. Even at the beginning Tess never got sore ears when I did this. you may need to resort to the "burrito". One other thing I do is after warming the ear, hold the ear (w/ pad underneath) between thumb and forefinger, then wrap the other three fingers around her head. This holds the head very securely and makes it very hard for them to jerk away. It does get better, Tess will even sleep right through tests now! :roll: And ALWAYS give a treat after a test, successful or not. Testing very quickly become associated w/ treats that way. :YMHUG:
 
Thanks for all of the advice. I was unable to get a +6 reading. A very tiny blood drop formed, but not enough for a test. If I try to prick her more than once, she really starts fighting me, so I usually don't. I usually put pressure on her ear after I prick for 20 to 30 seconds, but sometimes I think it must be bleeding afterwards and I've missed it. This probably happens when she jerks her head on me. I am most likely going to change the dose to 1 unit tonight. I know I will feel better about giving her 1 unit tomorrow morning before I have to go back to work. I'd rather be able to stay home a few more days and keep an eye on her, but I can't.
 
Hey Carla, I wanted to give you this link to a video of a lady hometesting an, ahem, difficult cat. It might be helpful. At first he seems to do really well, but keep watching, it's about 4 1/2 minutes in that he really freaks out. Bailey never was like that for me, but I know this video made me feel a lot better - if she can do it, then so can I - that sort of thing. Try to keep it in your mind that you're not hurting him, you're doing what is best for him as his mommy. You are doing a great job, you've gotten 2 readings today! :thumbup

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXyrKSJTlYA

ETA: And I agree about lowering the dose for now, especially since you're back to work tomorrow. Safety first!
 
Thanks for the link to the video. That makes me feel better. Hopefully Furball will calm down some soon. I hope I can get a reading tonight before her next meal and dose is due. I wish you could explain to cats, and have them understand, why we have to do the things we do to them.
 
Holy gramoley! :shock: :shock:

OK, I am very thankful to have Cini Mini, he just lays there like a lump and let's me do whatever I want!
 
Carla, do you use a lancet device or freehand the lancet? Apologies if you've already posted what you do, I couldn't remember & I'm too lazy to go back and check. :lol: You might try freehanding if you haven't already, some cats hate the clicking noise the device makes and I feel like freehanding gives me better control. Just a thought.
 
Yeah! I got a reading this evening before feeding and before giving Furball her next shot. It was 232. I gave her 1 unit of insulin after she ate.

I free hand the lancet. I didn't think I could hit where I wanted to on her ear with the lancet device.
 
Good job, Carla! It will get easier, I promise. I use the lancet device with the clear cap. Mookie is used to it because I spent a little time rubbing his ear, clicking the device, and giving him a treat, without poking. You'll find something that works for you and Furball, too.

Are you reusing the lancets, or using a fresh one for each test? They become dull with multiple uses and probably hurt more.
 
I have been using the same lancet each time I try to get blood during one sitting, even if I have to poke more than once. I didn't think about it might get dull. I'll have to make sure I have plenty ready in case I have to poke more than once. I don't want to cause her any more pain then I have to. Thanks for the tip.
 
I wouldn't try to change it for the same test if you have to poke more than once, especially if you're already struggling to hold onto him -- others may disagree. I'm just saying don't use the same one for many tests because it can hurt when it becomes dull. I change it about every 3rd poke.
 
i use the same one for one poke session too, but use a new one for the next time.

one thing i'm thinking might help, carla - do you have something hard behind furball's ear? you have to have something for the ear to be held against because otherwise there's too much "give" and the ear just moves away, barely making a scratch. some people put warm water into a pill bottle to warm up the ear and give a hard surface at the same time. i have my finger behind it now, but i used an old spice bottle with a flashlight taped into it at the beginning. it let me see the vein and aim as well as being a hard surface. it looks goofy, but only someone struggling with poking could appreciate it's value.

i left it taped in the bottle and screwed the battery cover in the end in to turn it on. maybe something like that would help you.

bottleandflashlightforBGtest.jpg
 
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