03/14 Rupert PMPS 415,+3.5, 334 yay for some pink!

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Pip & Rupert

Pip & Rupert

Member Since 2012
yesterday: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=66125

yesterdays numbers:
AMPS 257.4
+2 183.6
+5.5 349.2
PMPS 480.6
+3 430.2

WCR: looks great this morning. sleek coat, active, came and woke me up because the schedule was a bit off (took advantage of sleeping in a bit since he was skipping this morning's shot). He sat outside Oliver's door asking for his buddy to be let out. (Olly still sleeps in the spare room at night so that the others can go in and out, we are still getting him used to his new home)

I'm guessing he dipped into some nicer numbers overnight. Sort of relieved he's high this morning... is that silly of me? am thinking if his levels are going to drop today due to anaesthesia it would be good to start from a higher place! He's very cross that he's had no breakfast.

He's very cross that he's had no breakfast and is sulking under the dining table. Probably knows something is up because the routine is messed up! I'll let him out to go down to the barn with me for his morning pee (so I can get the sample for the vet) and then he'll be stuffed in the cat carrier (always entertaining event) at 8:30 and at the vets by 8:45. I'm really nervous about this, but also excited because I really hope this might be the answer.

think happy thoughts if you can spare a few! Hubby has gone to work, he's got his cell phone fully charged and wants updates hourly!
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today, fingers crossed

Many good dental vines coming your way...we'll be watching for updates!!
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today, fingers crossed

Sending many prayers and good dental vines today, Pip. Paws crossed this will be the remedy for those numbers.
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today, fingers crossed

Hi guys .. sending definite positive thoughts your way! I am hoping this dental will be an easy one, and gives you those lower numbers we all want to see .. update when you can!
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today, fingers crossed

All appendages crossed here for Rupert's dental. I know what you mean about wanting a bit higher numbers before the anesthesia. Will be looking for updates. After DH gets his update, of course. :-D
Liz
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today, fingers crossed

Sending a whole nest of good dental vines for Rupert. They do get cross when the routine is changed, don't they? :?
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today, fingers crossed

also thinking of you all this morning. i trust it will go well - sounds like you've got someone really good today!
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today, fingers crossed

Paws and fingers crossed here for a safe and easy dental!

(we'd cross tails as well if we had 'em)

celi & binks
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today, fingers crossed

I've just gotten caught up for the last several days. This dental vet sounds great and perhaps you should talk to the general vet partner about going to him. It would be nice to be in one clinic.

Ask for a printout of the Blood tests they run, there should be no charge. You can post the results in your SS on a separate sheet. A number of our sugar cats have renal concerns and there is a lot of good info available her on that too. To make a new sheet just click the plus sign on the bottom left, you will get a new blank SS sheet. Take a look at Tess or Mannie's SS we both have tabs for labs. Save yourself some typing for all the test names and copy the column for one of ours. Then you can edit it depending on what your lab runs.

Have you tried contacting ADW about the syringes? According to their site they ship to Canada.
Where do you ship?
American Diabetes Wholesale is proud to offer our products to customers within the United States and Canada. Products, shipping rates and fees may vary based on weight and delivery address.
Click to expand...

If you can order from them theses are the syringes that many of us use. There is some concern about line accuracy, but I find the BDs even worse. They have very good prices on strips too. You want:
  • u100 -- you know that already
    3/10cc -- volume, it has a smaller diameter barrel so the lines are space further apart
    5/16" -- lenth of needle,most of us use the smaller length, but that is personal preference
    31g -- needle diameter, much less discomfort for the cat w/ the thinner needle

I'd call them to see what restriction may be involved in shipping to Canada. If it works out for you, link to them through the "Shop" button on top of the forum page and FDMB gets a commission. It help keep the board running.
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today, fingers crossed

vet's office called. Rupert is doing well. was calling to ask permission to go ahead with an extraction. One very nasty rotten tooth on the left side (go figure, I'd have guessed right)... when i said 'is that all'.. she said 'so far'!?!!! Anyway, sounds like they did find one nasty tooth.. I think I prefer the 'one very nasty' to a 'bunch of slightly icky'. So, good cleaning, one extraction (I believe she said it was quite infected... so relieved I can't quite remember what she said actually!, will get info when I pick him up).... said he should be ready by about 1:30 or 2ish (so couple more hours time). phew!!! so at least we found SOMETHING! :smile: lets hope that's what's been sending him into those high numbers.

hoping i get to pick him up soon....thanx for all the good thoughts and well wishes... keep it up just a bit longer so he comes out of the anaesthetic well and is happy tonight! last time she did one extraction on him he didn't even need painkillers and was completely happy that night. She IS the best.. so glad I got him in so soon. thanx again. more updates when he's home!
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today,UPDATE!

Good to hear, I hope this is the answer you have been looking for and that all goes smoothly from here.
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today,UPDATE!

it was his right eye that seemed to weep more but I guess if there was a huge infection in there his system would just react all over? or it may just be residual issues from possible tear duct damage he got about 6 years ago in a cat fight, who knows?!.

and the vet just called.. I'm a little freaked but she made sense. I had the NO METACAM on his file, but she wants to give him ONE shot. says it's exactly what he needs for what he had going on in there, if he doesn't have it he's going to be very unhappy for the next few days. I asked if there was any alternative and she said not in this case. She agrees it is NOT for long term use, but that his blood pressure levels are high(as in good) enough that it will not be a problem(kidneys working well and he can filter it) and she was quite insistent. I told her that it was black labelled for renal failure and she was quite familiar with that, she agrees that more than one dose would be contra indicated in any cats but for the severe inflammation he had around the tooth he really needs it. I trust her so I told her to go ahead. I hope that's not the wrong thing to do. She said she gave him a clindomycin shot as well, doesn't feel he'll need to be on antibiotics when we get home. Not quite sure of the whole thing, she says he'll be ready around 2pm, he's doing really well, and that she'll show me the xrays and give me the full scoop when I pick him up. Said that he did indeed have wicked inflammation and infection around that tooth.
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today,UPDATE!

yay, I'm glad the dental went well and he'll be home soon .. hoping with that nasty tooth out of there, you'll start seeing some much better numbers!
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today,UPDATE!

Peter, thanx for the info re the syringes at ADW.. but I still can't find 1/2 inch ones... will take 29/30 or 31 guage....3/10cc but need HALF INCH 0r 12mm (long). their site search engine doesn't work well for me. I'm currently using the BD Ultra Fine II (3/10cc, 12mm)
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today,UPDATE!

I think the half unit markings may only be w/ the 5/16" needles. I'll look again. What's the reason for the longer needle?
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today,UPDATE!

I found with the shorter ones I was not getting under the skin, just into it. feel less likely to fur shot with the longer ones.
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today,UPDATE!

HI Pip. This sounds awful to write, but I'm glad Rupert had the bad tooth. All that inflammation and yucky stuff is hopefully the cause of his bg problems.
He will feel so much better in a few days. So will you :-D
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today,UPDATE!

Hooray for getting rid of the nasty tooth! Sending healing vines for Rupert and calming vines for you and DH. :-D
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today,UPDATE!

thanx Barb, I know what you mean, when I dropped him off this morning I said to the vet tech:" I sure hope you find something nasty'.. and she looked at me funny! I had to explain of course!

now, if his numbers don't get under control.... we'll have to explore other options, but at least we'll have ruled stuff out (to the tune of about $1000!) Will be interested to see the xrays. if I can get her to email them to me I'll try and post them, if anyone is interested?? not sure she'll do that. Will definitely try to remember to get a copy of the bloodwork.

still a little freaked re the metacam shot, but did some research and it seems like it's okay for the one time deal and I'm assuming his kidney function showed 'good' on his tests. Can't wait to see the big fella. He's SO going to hate me. But i think he'll be glad to be home and beside the nice big woodstove fire! poor guy, feel guilty. maybe he's had this sore sore tooth for a very long time. They are so very stoic. Guess I should test him when he gets home? and then test again PMPS....will probably need advice at that time unless his numbers are super high in which case I'll give him the regular 2u - will double check back here either way before I do anything.
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today,UPDATE!

I need a lot more convincing that a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory like Metacam is the "right" drug. The inflammation is due to infection. The clindamycin will deal with that. Metacam is for pain. There are better alternatives for pain management. (When I had periodontal work, my dentist did not give me ibuprofen or any other NSAID. I was given Vicoden -- it's the same family as buperenophine.)

Gabby has dental issues -- gingivitis and resorptive lesions. She had 5 extractions last time and no Metacam. She got a shot of long acting buprenorphine.
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today,UPDATE!

Hi Pip! It is really great to hear the dental went well, and most of his teeth still remain intact and in good standing! I bet he cannot wait to be home, too!

Regarding the metacam...You were informed, educated, and made the best decision possible in your circumstances. To me, it is far worse when a vet just assumes it is okay, never tells the client what they gave, and goes on their merry way. Personally, I would have made a different choice. That does not mean your choice was wrong.

This is not to give you extra worry. But you do need to be aware of possible adverse reactions with any medication and bring Rupert to the vet if he were to exhibit any of they symptoms (no ifs, and's, or buts!). Had I only known what to look for...half of them were staring at me in the face for TWO weeks...I may have been able to save Latte a lot of grief and illness.

Here are symptoms to watch for:
  • Disorientation

    Incoordination

    Decreased urine production

    Straining to urinate

    Loss of appetite

    Lethargy

    Vomiting

    Weakness

    Changes in water consumption and urination

Do you know if your vet gave an injection pre/post surgery, or if it was the oral suspension? Either way, it would be a good idea to do what you can to make sure Rupert is well hydrated for the next day or two. There seems to be a higher prevalence of adverse reactions to metacam when the cat is dehydrated.

Kidney issues do not usual appear in blood work until there is already a significant amount of damage/loss of function. As cat's age, it is pretty normal for them to have some loss of function. This is why it is especially not recommended to use metacam in older cats. Labs can come back fine (as they did in Latte's case), but set them over the edge if something assaults their system.

Anyway, I know you have a lot on your plate and do not want to cause you more worry. Try not to worry, just be aware, and bring Rupert in if you notice any adverse reactions or something is off in the next week or so.

I hope you guys have a wonderful evening together!

Sidenote: If you (or anyone) would like more information on metacam...stories, client information sheets, research, etc....click on the link in my signature. Most of the important stuff is there. If you have any questions, I am always available to address them.

ETA: When you get the records for your files, can you try and make sure the type of meloxicam (injection or oral), and dosage are written in there?
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today,UPDATE!

Hi there :cool:

Back in 2008, when BK had his first major dental (8 or so extractions , resorptive lesions - his mouth was a mess) The dental specialist gave him a shot of metacam before surgerry to help control pain and swelling. She sent me home with liquid metacam, to be started the following day for post op inflammation and tramadol for pain.

I didn't know what metacam was, so I posted. I believe this was prior to the black box warning. However, tribal knowledge was already among kitty beans.
I was cautioned to not use it post op. So in the trash it went . I called BKs regular vet and got bupronex, which BK had experience with and worked like a charm.
The tramadol went in the trash as well - all that foaming at the mouth! Neither one of us could take it.

Thankfully he didn't suffer any ill effects from the 1 shot of metacam.
I did tell his vet and dentist, in future - no more metacam
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today,UPDATE!

Ok. Rupie is home and looks amazing. Happy, alert, glossy, bright eyed and crabby as heck! cat(2)_steam !!!

he's had a light snack and was sitting on the windowsill in the den looking out.

She gave him an injection of metacam. post surgery. NO further use of metacam suggeste, no prescription given . She said that his one tooth was so bad, it was rotting internally and slowly reabsorbing into the bone. He would've been in a LOT of pain. The extraction went very well and she was pleased how easily he stitched up. She says that the pain he had prior to the extraction would probably have been MORE than what he will feel when the metacam wears off (tomorrow noonish) and that he should need nothing further but to let her know if he is having any issues. She said she made a point of giving him a LOT of fluids after the surgery to seriously rehydrate him and to help support kidney function although she had no worries about that. She feels that the wonky BG numbers could most definitely be related to the issues in his mouth. These kitties are so stoic, you'd think they'd be able to tell us if they have a rotten toothache!

she gave him an injection of Clindomycin as well. Said he probably won't need follow up a/b either but did suggested some pro-biotics if I want. I have forti-flora so probably will give him some tomorrow.

blood sugar BEFORE he went in this morning was at 349, Blood sugar when I got home 378... so... despite all the nasty, he stayed in the pink! good boy.

will be interesting to see where he is PMPS tonight, and even more so tomorrow morning.

i got a copy of his bloodwork, I don't have a copy of the one he had done at the previous vet, but THIS vet said his numbers had improved across the board and she was happy with them all. I asked if i shoudl be concerned that BUN was still a smidge high but she said that could change drastically over the next week so not to worry about it. I mentioned that he was on a high protein low carb diet and she said 'GOOD! don't change a thing'. (the other vet was all 'oooh. high protein, bad, must buy expensive hills m/d food for him blah blah). She (new vet) also said that his weight was just fine. I'll try to post his blood stuff in a google shared doc thingy.

Anyway, I'm happier, not so stressed and hopeful that we should start seeing some better numbers. Doesn't explain why we had greens and blues to start with I guess..... I won't go there, I'm going to remain positive and expect great things over the next while!

thanx for pushing me to get his teeth checked and for questioning the last vet when she said 'they are just fine'. grrrr.
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today,UPDATE!

Woohoo!!!! Paws crossed for a smooth recovery and better numbers. Getting that rotten tooth out of there has got to help. Isn't this place great?
Liz
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today,he's HOME!!!

glad you've gotten him home and he's looking good. very glad you insisted on the dental getting done.

remember to go slow on the food, even though he will tell you he wants more. you don't want vomiting with his mouth all sore.

as the infection & pain resolves you may see his numbers come down dramatically. you already do a good job of testing, just keep doing what you're doing and you'll be able to catch any lower numbers.
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today,he's HOME!!!

Pip & Rupert said:
Doesn't explain why we had greens and blues to start with I guess..... I won't go there, I'm going to remain positive and expect great things over the next while!
Click to expand...

Doesn't' seem weird to me.
If you look at BKs ss, the week of 04/06/2009-04/12/2009, he was at 3.25u Lantus and with the exception of one yellow, we had all blues and greens.
two weeks later, red appears back on the scene.
6 weeks later we are back up to 5.25u Lantus, with a little R sprinkled in and struggling to beat down the pinks.

Paws crossed for a speedy uneventful recovery, followed by better numbers. :cool:
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today,he's HOME!!!

I'm glad Rupert is home and crabby!!

If you want an example, I have Gabby's labs in a tab on her spreadsheet.
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert PMPS 415,

PMPS is 415... not too bad considering he had no shot today and he's been way higher but it's obviously creeping up over the past 3 hours. course he hasn't eaten much today. He looks good. very hungry. he's just eating some Ocean breeze (it's very sloppy and he loves it) with some forti flora and his lysine. Polished the plate totally. Will give him the 2u tonight as per usual.....
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert AMBG 349 vet today,he's HOME!!!

Hi Pip and Rupert,
we are so glad that the dental was successful and that the nasty tooth is gone. Sending lots of healing vines to soothe Rupert's mouth.

here is a link to the post in the Tech Forum that tells you how to link your SS in your Signature. Go down to section B and see nos. 7 and 8. No. 7 describes how to do a simple text link. This is like the link you have in your Signature at present. What you want to do is No 8: put the link into a short phrase, such as "Rupert's SS" . If you do this, you only get "charged" for the number of letters in "Rupert's SS", not for the whole string of symbols.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207#p179835

good luck!

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 03/14 Rupert PMPS 415,

Housekeeping note -
Tonight's shot should be marked +24 (assuming the skipped morning shot today and that you are indeed shooting 24 hours from his last shot)
It's an important distinction.
And there may be more situations like this ahead :cool:

an example from BKs ss (which was not hard to find post dental) :
 

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Re: 03/14 Rupert PMPS 415,+3.5, 334

+3 and a 334.. PINK! I know, getting excited about pink is a bit silly, but I"m super happy with that pink number already! nice slow decline to it, and with a depleted shed to start with from no shot this morning.

Rupert is AMAZING tonight. I let him out earlier to go for a pee, followed him as usual. normally he heads back inside (specially since it was raining). No sirree, no inside for this boy. .. TWO laps around the house, up the side stairs, along the front, down the other side, up the deck stairs, deek around under the bbq, scoot PAST the open sliding door, back down the deck stairs, up around the front of the house, hide under the horse trailer, eventually zoom back around and up the deck and in to the house. YEE HAW!!!!! He is purrier than ever this evening. Just did his test poke, wanted his steak bits or no go!!. was head butting the edge of the table (he sits on the dining room chair whilst I poke him).. was purring and happy as all get out. Haven't seen him like this in years! :-D :-D :-D :-D one happy cat, one happy owner. Lets hope the numbers continue to decline now. That nasty tooth must have been hurting him badly for quite some time. His coat looks good and he looks 'hydrated'. Course he had a lot of SubQ fluids at the vet so we'll see how he is in the morning, but so far so good!

I'm expecting some interesting numbers by tomorrow evening! Thanx for all the good thoughts today everyone!!!
 
I'm glad the dental went well and Rupie is feels ng good tonight. I don't agree that one shot of clindamycin is enough especially if it was really ugly in there, he should be on 10 days of it. They gave Tobey one shot and I insisted on a longer course...good thing I did as he had residual issues.

Hope they gave him some good pain meds!
 
:-D :-D :-D :-D Great WCR for after the dental. he must be feeling so much better.

The bad news is that I can't find syringes with both half unit markings and 1/2" needles, even on the mfg. websites. I don't think that combo is made. You'll either have to learn to use the shorter needles or get really good at eyeballing the in between doses.
 
thanx Ann, I figured it was a hard combo to find!! I have seem them somewhere on some sites.. but can't get them shipped to Canada... if I go hunting again I'll see if I can get them shipped to my sister in WA and get her to send them up to me. hopefully I'll HAVE to get good at figuring the half doses and really need those half unit syringes!!!! or we'll try a run with the shorter needles and see if it works!
 
i wonder if you would get used to the shorter needles if you used them for a while. i really like them now that i'm used to them. the .5u marking is fabulous - i don't know how i would get by without the markings.
 
The queen of fur shots (me) thinks that we actually get fewer fur shots with the short needles. There is less opportunity to have the shot go "through the tent" and come out the other side. Where do you shoot? Rusty has very long hair and I used to get lots of fur shots when I shot behind the shoulder, on his side. When I switched to shooting in the scruff, the number of fur shots decreased drametically. I pull up a bit of fur to see the skin and that also forms the tent.

The 31 gauge needles are worth any changes you have to make. They are so much more comfortable for the cat.

Hope Rupert is feeling great today.

Ella & Rusty
 
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