02/17 Gizmo PMPS=139, +1=110, +2=104, +3=88, +4=97, +5=95

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LizzieInTexas

LizzieInTexas

Member Since 2016
02/16

AMPS 250

I hate sleeping on the couch! :confused:

At 10:30p last night I fed him another LC snack. His numbers were still falling but not fast. His autofeeder was already set to spin @ 11p and @12a so I loaded those two up with more food (@11p) and added LC to his FD treats @ 12a and then set my alarm for 1:00a - it wasn't too bad.

Another day, another cycle.

Hope everyone has a good one.
 
carfurby said:
I'm glad Gizmo surfed safely for you last night. I hope he comes back down today.
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I had only fed the Foul Ball because I thought it would be easier on his tummy. At 10:30 when he was still dropping and still thought I was trying to starve him to death:cool:, I broke out a Wellness pouch that is 9 carbs and gave him a straight tablespoon of that and then added same to his 11p and then another straight tablespoon at 12a. I think he would have seen green without the food but I think we are going to bounce bad with the 140 drop at the +3 so was trying to minimize that issue too.

Will be interesting to see what he does today.

Can anyone explain why anesthesia has this affect on BG levels? I find it very interesting.

Have a great day Carla:bighug:
 
carfurby said:
His teeth look much better. I'm sure he feels better too.
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When hubby was leaving for work this morning - I told Gizmo to smile at him. lol.

He is not "cleaning" that side of his face after he eats. I started noticing that behavior about a month ago. I am sure that the food was suck up in there and it was bothering him.
 
Labs tab has been updated with current bw and urinalysis #'s. I find it interesting to see the comparison side-by-side.

Sent email to Dr. P about the potassium so will see what she says. She will probably agree. I asked her to advise the dosage/frequency. I know from when he was on the gel that his numbers rose slowly and only slightly. I don't know if the powder is the same way.

This is what I have for potassium supplement (Vet Solution Renal K+ (100 gm)):
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MFRP9W/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20
 
LizzieInTexas said:
Sent email to Dr. P about the potassium so will see what she says
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His potassium is still in the normal range although lower but still normal. I'm curious what the vet will say since you certainly don't want high potassium either. Is lower potassium common with CKD kitties? Is Gizmo eating enough?
 
Doodles & Karen said:
His potassium is still in the normal range although lower but still normal. I'm curious what the vet will say since you certainly don't want high potassium either. Is lower potassium common with CKD kitties? Is Gizmo eating enough?
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Here is what Marje wrote yesterday when she looked at the labs:
Marje and Gracie said:
His potassium also came downed I really think you need to talk to your vet about supplementing potassium. Here’s why: research indicates that whatever the serum potassium level is in a cat with CKD, the cellular potassium is even less and in the cells is where they need the potassium. So it’s often smart to start supplementing potassium when the serum level drops below 4. And his has gone from 3.7 to 3.5.
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Here is fro Tanya's site:
Potassium levels may sometimes appear to be normal in blood tests when in fact there is a potassium deficiency in the body. Dr D Polzin states in Chronic kidney disease (2007) Delaware Valley Academy of Veterinary Medicine "muscle potassium content decreased in normokalemic cats with spontaneous CKD, indicating that a total-body deficit of potassium may develop well before the onset of hypokalemia." This is because, although potassium is used in the body's cells, the regulatory mechanism of the body is actually set to maintain a certain level of potassium in the blood, not the cells. Thus, when potassium levels drop, as they tend to do in early stage CKD, the cat's body will try to maintain levels of potassium in the blood by taking potassium from the cells. This means that at the intra-cellular level where the potassium is really needed, potassium levels are too low, even though the blood levels of potassium may appear to be normal.

There are a number of tests available for humans to test potassium at the intracellular level. One is the Exa Test, which requires a buccal sample (from the cheek inside the mouth). I only know of one person who has had potassium checked at the intracellular level, but unfortunately he cannot remember which company his vet used.


Goal for Potassium Level in Bloodwork

Potassium is usually measured in either mEq/l (USA) or mmol/l (international). However, in practice the numbers are the same value for potassium, e.g. 4 mEq/l is the same as 4 mmol/l.
Although laboratories vary, most have a range around 3.5 to 5.5. Ideally though, you want your cat's potassium level to be firmly in the middle, at around 4.4, but definitely above 4.
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I don't claim to fully understand but I do know that when his potassium is higher (around 4) he feels better and is a lot more active. The vet said it compares to being dehydrated and electrolytes out of balance then you drink a Gatorade.

The BW from 09/03/16 he had been on the potassium gel since the BW from 07/19/16. You can see it came up from 3.3 to 3.7. Now he has dropped from 3.9 to 3.5 in just two months (no supplements).

I was hoping the food I was feeding (that has potassium in it) would be enough to at least hold him.

To answer your question - yes low or high potassium is a result of the CKD.

His weight has maintained at 11.2#'s for four months. Depending on his BG numbers he seems fairly satisfied. He is getting 8.75-9 oz of food per 24 hour cycle. The vet did say she is satisfied with his weight but wouldn't worry if he gained another pound to pound and a half.
 
LizzieInTexas said:
Here is what Marje wrote yesterday when she looked at the labs:


Here is fro Tanya's site:


I don't claim to fully understand but I do know that when his potassium is higher (around 4) he feels better and is a lot more active. The vet said it compares to being dehydrated and electrolytes out of balance then you drink a Gatorade.

The BW from 09/03/16 he had been on the potassium gel since the BW from 07/19/16. You can see it came up from 3.3 to 3.7. Now he has dropped from 3.9 to 3.5 in just two months (no supplements).

I was hoping the food I was feeding (that has potassium in it) would be enough to at least hold him.

To answer your question - yes low or high potassium is a result of the CKD.

His weight has maintained at 11.2#'s for four months. Depending on his BG numbers he seems fairly satisfied. He is getting 8.75-9 oz of food per 24 hour cycle. The vet did say she is satisfied with his weight but wouldn't worry if he gained another pound to pound and a half.
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I just gave you the short version of what Helen said ;);)
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I just gave you the short version of what Helen said ;);)
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Vet replied to my email, but she didn't tell me what dosage or frequency :banghead:

I replied back and asked again. She probably needs to research. Hopefully I can start soon.

Here is her reply "
I like that product a lot. I would try to add 50% more of the supplement to the diet to see if it will help. I also think that will make him feel better."
 
LizzieInTexas said:
Labs tab has been updated with current bw and urinalysis #'s. I find it interesting to see the comparison side-by-side.

Sent email to Dr. P about the potassium so will see what she says. She will probably agree. I asked her to advise the dosage/frequency. I know from when he was on the gel that his numbers rose slowly and only slightly. I don't know if the powder is the same way.

This is what I have for potassium supplement (Vet Solution Renal K+ (100 gm)):
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MFRP9W/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20
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This product has potassium and B vitamins in it. On Tanya’s, Helen recommends giving a separate potassium supplement and a separate B vitamin instead of using a product with both of them in it. I don’t know if you’ve opened it or can return it to Amazon. If you can, the better product to get is NOW Potassium gluconate powder. This is a pure potassium powder with nothing else in it. Personally, I also think the Renal K+ has a lot of inactive ingredients (and the gel has maple flavoring) in it that I wouldn’t want to give my cat.

I’m also very concerned about what your vet said about adding "50% more of the supplement” to food. You can’t just arbitrarily dose potassium. It needs to be fairly precise based on the cat’s needs. The dosing for potassium is on Tanya’s here and that is what I would use to discuss with my vet.
 
It does not have any B vitamins in it. Apparently the original Amazon description was incorrect.

20170217_172518.jpg
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I’m also very concerned about what your vet said about adding "50% more of the supplement”
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I think she thinks that I had already been giving it and to add 1/2 again additional dose. I made it clear in my reply that he was currently NOT taking any potassium supplement and needed her advise on dose and frequency.

I just ordered the NOW powder. It was $12 for a pound - lol. I don't think I can use a pound but that's ok.
 
LizzieInTexas said:
It does not have any B vitamins in it. Apparently the original Amazon description was incorrect.

View attachment 26479
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You might want to read the manufacturer’s page on inactive ingredients.

Here is what Helen says on Tanya’s:
Renal K+, Amino B & K and Kaminox

These products contain both potassium gluconate and B vitamins, though whether the amounts of vitamin B are enough to be of any real benefit is debatable. Personally I would use separate potassium and B vitamins products, which should also work out cheaper. See below for dosage.



Renal K+

This product is made by Vetoquinol and comes in gel and powder versions. The ingredients in both versions can be found here but the precise composition of the products is unknown, though I am trying to work out why maple flavour (found in the gel) might be appealing to cats.
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@Marje and Gracie

The NOW powder will be here Sunday. If I am reading the dosing on Tanya's site Gizmo should get just under 1/4 teaspoon/day (I think that is on the conservative side)? Can you double check me? He is currently 11.2#'s.
 
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