? 02/08 - Bandit - PMPS 316 - TR with YA Zero dry food?

Bandit's Mom

Bandit's Mom

Member Since 2019
Previous Post - http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...159-4-195-8-299-pmps-316.225338/#post-2522562

Sue and Luci said:
Diabetic cats, until they are well regulated on insulin, also require more water. When cats eat dry food, they need to compensate for the lack of moisture by drinking more. It has been observed that even healthy cats do not do this sufficiently, because they have a low thirst drive. A sufficient intake of water is even more important in diabetic cats. Canned food makes it easier to keep your cat well hydrated.

Link from the yellow sticky:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/ to this one
http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6_protocol2.htm
• you will need to feed the right diet: high-quality low-carb canned food or raw food exclusively
Click to expand...

I am sure this question has been asked before and answered innumerable times on this forum, so apologies for asking it again and for my pathetic search (for past condos) abilities!

My kitty, Bandit, is now on Young Again Zero Carb kibble and I want to switch to TR. I think I monitor enough and I want to be able to increase doses faster and take fewer reductions. She drinks a lot of water - always has - even before diabetes.

All the TR literature I have read (even outside FDMB) require that the cats be fed wet food and the only reasons they give for not feeding dry food are hydration and higher carb% in dry food. If I can take care of both negatives of dry food with Bandit, is there any other reason that I cannot follow TR with her?

Could the wet food requirement in TR be because the protocol pre-dates zero carb dry food?

Apologies for stirring-up this pot again!
 
Very nice on the title - if you could just add his pre-shot number to the title it would be helpful.

I realize you're around the world so you may want to post PMPS? Not sure which number is relevant to your time of day :)
 
Sue and Luci said:
Very nice on the title - if you could just add his pre-shot number to the title it would be helpful.

I realize you're around the world so you may want to post PMPS? Not sure which number is relevant to your time of day :)
Click to expand...

Oh sorry! I didn't realize I was required to since the question was a generic one. Corrected.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Yeah. Any thoughts on what could be the potential downside if one were to attempt to follow it with a cat on zero carb kibble?
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My cat is on YA too. Since I can’t follow TR, I follow a modified SLGS. I set my reduction lower than 90 and I change dose when the old dose is not doing much to bring down his bg. SLGS is too slow for me and I need to be aggressive as this will be his second try at remission. I just make sure i keep him safe by taking enough readings.
 
Waheeda said:
My cat is on YA too. Since I can’t follow TR, I follow a modified SLGS. I set my reduction lower than 90 and I change dose when the old dose is not doing much to bring down his bg. SLGS is too slow for me and I need to be aggressive as this will be his second try at remission. I just make sure i keep him safe by taking enough readings.
Click to expand...

Was he on YA the first time he went into remission? Or only after?
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Was he on YA the first time he went into remission? Or only after?
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He was from the first time. In fact, YA helped to bring down his bg by more than 100+ points. But we were on vetsulin that time and there’s no protocol like in lantus. I even let him graze within the 2 hours before shot.
Yesterday I forgot to remove YA 2 hours before shot but I don’t see a spike at amps.
 
Waheeda said:
He was from the first time. In fact, YA helped to bring down his bg by more than 100+ points. But we were on vetsulin that time and there’s no protocol like in lantus. I even let him graze within the 2 hours before shot.
Yesterday I forgot to remove YA 2 hours before shot but I don’t see a spike at amps.
Click to expand...

Oh that's great.. It gives me hope. How long did it take to lower the BG with YA?
 
Bandit is showing lower numbers too. By 100-125. But her insulin requirements haven't come down as yet. She's just lower in BG on the same dose than she was on when we transitioned her. Hopefully, with time...
 
You cannot use TR as your dosing strategy and have your cat on YA. It is considered a dry food and the requirements for TR are that a cat be on a canned, low carb diet. In addition, YA is NOT zero carb. It is low carb but not zero.

The additional difficulty, beyond what Sandy noted, is that there is no data on using a kibble based diet with TR. The dry food takes longer to metabolize and we have no idea how TR and a dry food diet would work. TR is a research based protocol. Either you follow it or you don't. There isn't a "modified" version of TR. None of us with experience will be able to truly help you if you don't follow TR.

SLGS does allow for greater flexibility. You are seeing gradual improvement in Bandit's numbers. Regardless of what you decide, this process takes time. You can't force the numbers down and for most cats, change does to happen overnight. Please try to be more patient.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Bandit is showing lower numbers too. By 100-125. But her insulin requirements haven't come down as yet. She's just lower in BG on the same dose than she was on when we transitioned her. Hopefully, with time...
Click to expand...
It’s a Long game. Have to be patient, something I’m struggling with too. But once it comes down, it was quite fast for us. From weeks of red, then we saw yellow and then a lot of blues n greens.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
You cannot use TR as your dosing strategy and have your cat on YA. It is considered a dry food and the requirements for TR are that a cat be on a canned, low carb diet. In addition, YA is NOT zero carb. It is low carb but not zero.

The additional difficulty, beyond what Sandy noted, is that there is no data on using a kibble based diet with TR. The dry food takes longer to metabolize and we have no idea how TR and a dry food diet would work. TR is a research based protocol. Either you follow it or you don't. There isn't a "modified" version of TR. None of us with experience will be able to truly help you if you don't follow TR.

SLGS does allow for greater flexibility. You are seeing gradual improvement in Bandit's numbers. Regardless of what you decide, this process takes time. You can't force the numbers down and for most cats, change does to happen overnight. Please try to be more patient.
Click to expand...

Noted! Patience is difficult. Especially with a symptomatic cat. But I will heed your advice not to rush things.

I am curious about why you say that YA Zero is not zero carb though. They claim it is less than 1% and have also provided nutritional info to that effect on their website.
 

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