Red's dose after falling out of remission | Feline Diabetes Message Board - FDMB

Red's dose after falling out of remission

Marie & Red

Marie & Red

Member
Hi,
I gave Red his first dose of ProZinc this morning and his BG dropped from 299 to 256 after 2.5 hours. Is this a good decrease?

I'll continue testing throughout the day.
 
That’s not a bad decrease for 2.5 hours — not too steep but starting to move down. That’s good. What test numbers have you gotten since then? Oops. Sorry. I see you just got that test a few minutes ago! I will check back later.
 
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Okay, if you got any tests last night just put them in the spreadsheet. If he didn’t drop low last night and is starting out in the 300s by this morning — and if you will be able to test him during the cycle— you could try 1 unit. I just wanted to be very cautious and start extra small yesterday. Or you could gradually increase by going to .75 this morning. I would probably base my decision on whether he’s in a lower pink number or a higher pink number. So far he hasn’t had a high pink.

Note to anyone else reading this thread: this dosing only applies to Red, who was formerly on ProZinc, went into remission, and was knocked out of remission by a steroid shot. We restarted ProZinc yesterday, and are gradually determining the correct dose for what we hope will be a short term as the steroid shot wears off. Do not try to apply this dosing to your own cat.
 
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Marie & Red said:
I didn't have any tests from late last night. This morning he was 257 and I gave him .75 dose.
I'll test him in 2 hours!
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Okay good. I am glad you did a smaller dose because of his lower AMPS. You will hopefully see some blue today. That lower AMPS is a good sign. He may have even dropped into blue last night.
 
Okay good and at +2, too! He will go lower than that by nadir. Try to make sure and catch his nadir so we have a good idea of how low this .75 unit is taking him.
 
A nice progression, but no drama. I like that. I think we should keep him at this dose for a few more days to see how things stabilize (hopefully). If his numbers start to rise or, obviously, if they go lower than desired, we would make changes.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
A nice progression, but no drama. I like that. I think we should keep him at this dose for a few more days to see how things stabilize (hopefully). If his numbers start to rise or, obviously, if they go lower than desired, we would make changes.
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Lol I don't want any drama either! Thankfully he never gave any drama previously.

I agree with you keeping him at .75 for now.
Thank you!
 
His appetite is not too good. He only takes a bit when I feed him cat food. I try topping with parmesan cheese or bonito flakes and he will eat, but only the top layer. He will eat boiled chicken, treats (fancy feast squares or Orijen freeze dried chicken treats), cheese, and he ate a tiny bit of tuna when I gave it. It seems it's the cat food he just doesn't have an interest in, which is odd for him. Since I leave food out for him at night, I do notice that some food from his plate is gone in the morning. I don't know what else to do to increase his appetite. Is it the meds he got or insulin? He has lost some weight. On 9/17 he weighed 9.4 pounds, today he weighs 8.4.
 
Marie & Red said:
I should also mention that I had another cat who had cancer. She crossed the rainbow bridge last month on 8/21. They were not close companions, but they were together for about 10 years. Could he be going through depression?
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I am wondering if this is a reaction to the Convenia shot? It is a known side effect of Convenia. “Common side effects of Convenia (cefovecin) in pets may include lethargy, decreased appetite, vomiting, and diarrhea.”

Steroids generally increase appetite so I doubt if it’s that.

I am sorry you lost your cat. I hate cancer. That is so hard. My heart goes out to you. And following on the heels of losing her, this happens with Red being knocked out of remission!

We just lost a cat week ago today, and it was very unexpected. She was behaving perfectly normal in the morning when we left to take another cat to the vet for surgery and by the time we got home she was sick, and we could tell something was seriously wrong. She was only 7 years old. She died at the vet and they have no clue why. She was my daughter’s special cat; she is just devastated. I really didn’t expect it. I expected to lose one of my sick/senior cats but not Delilah.

Anyway, I feel your pain about the eating problems. I have struggled all weekend trying to get another kitty to eat. She has complicated health problems, but this not eating is really getting me down. I have been giving her sub-q fluids daily because she got dehydrated last week from not eating. I gave her Mirtazapine for an appetite stimulant for 3-4 days, and it only helped a very tiny amount. This morning, I went back to the Cyproheptadine as an appetite stimulant (because she had completely stopped eating) and she’s been eating much better today (almost eaten a normal amount so far.) If she keeps this up, I won’t even need to syringe feed her today. All the vets try to get me to use Mirataz (on the ear) or the Mirtazapine pills, but the older standby treatment (Cyproheptadine) is what works for her.
 
And he could be reacting to the change of your other cat being missing. Even if they weren’t close, things are still different and many cats will react to that as they don’t like change. I’ve had cats get sick very shortly after another cat passed away — that’s happened a couple of times. However, if the changes in appetite began after the paw problem/Convenia/Depo-Medrol injection, it’s more likely related to that.
 
Marie & Red said:
On 9/17 he weighed 9.4 pounds, today he weighs 8.4.
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And that is quite a lot of weight loss in a little over a month! I would talk to the vet about trying an appetite stimulant just to get him over this rough patch. I do keep Mirataz here at home and it works for a lot of my cats (it just isn’t working for Grace). That’s the transdermal ointment that goes on the inner part of their ear. Maybe you have used it before (in your cancer kitty?) or even have some at home now?
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
And that is quite a lot of weight loss in a little over a month! I would talk to the vet about trying an appetite stimulant just to get him over this rough patch. I do keep Mirataz here at home and it works for a lot of my cats (it just isn’t working for Grace). That’s the transdermal ointment that goes on the inner part of their ear. Maybe you have used it before (in your cancer kitty?) or even have some at home now?
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Ohhh I am so sorry about Delilah 😢 It makes me teary eyed thinking about that. I would be devastated too. I still miss my Scuffy so much, she was 15. She had surgery for her malignant mass twice, which was on her cheek. It just kept coming back. At the end, the mass was growing big and affecting the way she was eating and feeling. She kept hiding so I knew she was in pain and it was time. Putting her to sleep was one of the hardest things I ever had to do 😭

I am going to call Red's vet today and ask for an appetite stimulant. I never had trouble before getting him to eat.
Thank you
 
Marie & Red said:
Good Morning Suzanne,
Red's number seem to be coming down, unless it's because he's not eating as much. Last night he was 94 and this morning he is 138. Do you think I should drop his dose back down to 0.5?
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Hope you did. I probably would have shot .5 based on the lower AMPS — just because everything is new again with him on insulin and also with his eating being unreliable.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Hope you did. I probably would have shot .5 based on the lower AMPS — just because everything is new again with him on insulin and also with his eating being unreliable.
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Yes, I looked back at his history and gave him the .5 dose. :)

I went to the vet this morning and she gave him some Rebound to take, up to 3x per day. It's a nutritional appetite stimulant. Hopefully that will work for him!
 
Marie & Red said:
Yes, I looked back at his history and gave him the .5 dose. :)

I went to the vet this morning and she gave him some Rebound to take, up to 3x per day. It's a nutritional appetite stimulant. Hopefully that will work for him!
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I hope it doesn’t raise his BG. It’s ringing a bell in my mind about others here who have tried it with their cats and found it raises BG. I did just look up the ingredients and see Maltodextrin and corn starch so it must be fairly “carby”

Maltodextrin is not a sugar itself, but it is a carbohydrate made from starch that can be quickly converted into glucose, which is a type of sugar. It has a high glycemic index, meaning it can cause a rapid increase in blood sugar levels when consumed. And corn starch is pretty obviously a carb. I guess most vets don’t even think about these things when prescribing for diabetic cats.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I hope it doesn’t raise his BG. It’s ringing a bell in my mind about others here who have tried it with their cats and found it raises BG. I did just look up the ingredients and see Maltodextrin and corn starch so it must be fairly “carby”

Maltodextrin is not a sugar itself, but it is a carbohydrate made from starch that can be quickly converted into glucose, which is a type of sugar. It has a high glycemic index, meaning it can cause a rapid increase in blood sugar levels when consumed. And corn starch is pretty obviously a carb. I guess most vets don’t even think about these things when prescribing for diabetic cats.
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Oh great. I tried looking it up when I there picking it up but I didn't come across anything. I will keep an eye on his BG levels.
 
Red tested a little higher PMPS at 189, but he did eat less than 1 hour prior to testing/shot. Since he's not eating well I didn't want to pull his food. I've been letting him eat when he wants. I'm also wondering if the higher number is an effect of the Rebound appetite stimulant. I'll keep testing and watching.
 
I completely agree and understand about the food. I would not be limiting his access to food either at this point. You might just want to make sure that he’s not eating the Rebound within two hours of shot time because that could more significantly increase his preshot tests. I would not want him to end up dropping too low after the high carb Rebound wears off and he’s already had insulin. High carbs generally take about two hours to “wear off”. If it’s kibble though (not talking about the Rebound now) then it can keep the BG raised up even longer as it tends to have a more unpredictable effect on BG.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I completely agree and understand about the food. I would not be limiting his access to food either at this point. You might just want to make sure that he’s not eating the Rebound within two hours of shot time because that could more significantly increase his preshot tests. I would not want him to end up dropping too low after the high carb Rebound wears off and he’s already had insulin. High carbs generally take about two hours to “wear off”. If it’s kibble though (not talking about the Rebound now) then it can keep the BG raised up even longer as it tends to have a more unpredictable effect on BG.
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I only give the Rebound right after a BG test. It's liquid, he likes it and thinks it's a treat :) I didn't know how long a high carb would last, so good to know it's about 2 hours. I do give him 1/3 tube of Churu liquid treat mixed with water about 3x day. Otherwise, I don't think he's getting enough water. For some reason, he doesn't know how to drink plain water properly from his bowl. He licks the edge of the bowl instead of in the middle of the bowl where the water is. If I mix water with some Churu, he. drinks normally 🤷‍♀️

His BG was high this morning, but I noticed his plate of food was gone this morning. So he may have eaten before I woke up and tested him. I just don't know how much time before testing that would have been.

I'm starting to wonder if he just not wanting his canned pate. I'm trying all flavors and brands but he doesn't eat much of them, including his old favorites. He is eating boiled chicken or treats without any issue. When I leave FF pate out before I go to sleep, he sometimes eats throughout the night and much is gone in the morning.
 
Red ended up going higher in BG. I'm not understanding why because that's a first an increase happened after a shot. My husband told me that he gave the AM injection on the other side of Red's body that he normally does. I'm wondering if that affected the insulin or maybe it did not all go in? He said he won't switch sides again. The only other reason would be the Rebound. But he had that at 9:15am and this test was 3 1/2 hours later.
 
I started Red on Mirtazapine. The dose is 3.75 mg every 3 days. He took about 3mg. Within an hour, he was eating, almost 2 packets of FF petites. I didn't think it would work that quickly. His next dose in 2-3 days, I want to give a smaller dose of 1.88 mg, if he needs it.
 
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