6/25 Khloe AMPS 436, +2 378, +6 248, +8 250, PMPS 219, +2 200, +4 132

Sara & Khloe

Member Since 2026
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Today I’m grateful for: Waking up to only 1 pee accident which means a less stinky house!

What weird cycles the last 24 hours have been 😵‍💫
Yesterday AM she did that odd slide thing. The shape looked similar to the PM of 6/22 so I was convinced she was going super low last night but she pulled a reverse uno on me.
I’m definitely exhausted so not too upset about the bounce. Hopefully this new dose lets us see some greens!

Safe surf everyone!! Hope everyone has an awesome relaxing day!
 
Come on back down Khloe, and good luck with the dose increase!🍀🍀🍀🍃🍃🍃
Glad you had less pee issues today and hope it improves!
:bighug: 🌊 🏄‍♀️
Thank you Staci!
I guess I haven’t looked at Ivy’s SS close enough so can I pick your brain for a moment? When you put F next to the units, does that mean ‘fat’ dose? And what does +++ mean?
 
Thank you Staci!
I guess I haven’t looked at Ivy’s SS close enough so can I pick your brain for a moment? When you put F next to the units, does that mean ‘fat’ dose? And what does +++ mean?
Yep you guessed correctly, it’s a fat dose.
Because I use calipers I tend to microdose with Ivy a lot.
She tends to be very responsive to dose increases, and since I use the Libre, a larger dose increase can send her diving, and then it shuts down the Libre.
I have found that if I do more moderate increases, it may take me longer to get where I want to, but she won’t dive as hard and won’t shut down the Libre, which is an issue because I have to use one constantly with her.
She will not allow constant poking and that’s how I ended up using a Libre.
So, the +++ is just my method of figuring out how far along in the micro dosing of that specific dose I am.
I make notes in the comment section of the exact millimeter measurement with the syringe I use (Relion) for my own reference.

I hope it’s not too confusing from the outside looking in, but I know what I’m looking at. (I’m sure nobody else does).
I guess we all have our own way of doing things, but we try to be as consistent as we can so that others can take a look at our spreadsheets and have a clue of what’s going on. 🤯
 
Yep you guessed correctly, it’s a fat dose.
Because I use calipers I tend to microdose with Ivy a lot.
She tends to be very responsive to dose increases, and since I use the Libre, a larger dose increase can send her diving, and then it shuts down the Libre.
I have found that if I do more moderate increases, it may take me longer to get where I want to, but she won’t dive as hard and won’t shut down the Libre, which is an issue because I have to use one constantly with her.
She will not allow constant poking and that’s how I ended up using a Libre.
So, the +++ is just my method of figuring out how far along in the micro dosing of that specific dose I am.
I make notes in the comment section of the exact millimeter measurement with the syringe I use (Relion) for my own reference.

I hope it’s not too confusing from the outside looking in, but I know what I’m looking at. (I’m sure nobody else does).
I guess we all have our own way of doing things, but we try to be as consistent as we can so that others can take a look at our spreadsheets and have a clue of what’s going on. 🤯
Ohhhh that makes a lot of sense now! I just haven’t seen that yet and wanted to know if I was missing something.
It seems Ivy is a ‘Know Thy Cat’ and ‘Know Thy Libre’ situation but glad you found something that works for her!
I also didn’t know about the Libres shutting down for lows, that’s good to know. I have to use one in December when I have to go out of state without Khloe so I may buy 2 and experiment with it before I leave.

I wouldn’t worry about it looking confusing to other people, I’m confused about most things these days so it’s probably just a ‘me’ thing 🤪
 
Good luck with the increase!
Do you know the cause of Khloe's urinating outside the box or accidents (if it is, indeed, Khloe)? I'm sensitive to UT issues since we battle them frequently with Jude, so wanted to ask.
 
Good luck with the increase!
Do you know the cause of Khloe's urinating outside the box or accidents (if it is, indeed, Khloe)? I'm sensitive to UT issues since we battle them frequently with Jude, so wanted to ask.
So it’s been a debate in my household. My fiance thinks it’s become habit and that she prefers the feel of the puppy pads. I think it’s when she has high BG. When she was on Vetsulin, we had a good stretch there with zero accidents so that’s where my logic comes from. I also notice smaller and less puddles on nights she gets into blues.
We did a urinalysis at the vet back in February and she was negative for UTI and she doesn’t show any signs of pain when going.
The accidents are always within 3 feet of the litter box so I’m hoping it’s just that she can’t make it to the box in time.

I’m 99.99% sure it’s Khloe because I’ve caught her in the middle of peeing multiple times and see my civvie use the box. But planning to get a camera here at some point to check who it is in the middle of the night.

Do you suggest I have her checked for anything else?

Edit: Just in case it’s relavent. At diagnosis and with Bexacat, she was having 8-10 accidents a night. Now it’s 1-2 a night.
 
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It sounds like you've likely got it narrowed down to being related to the diabetes since the UTI was clear. Did the vet do a cystocentesis? Or did you catch a urine sample and take it in? The best diagnostic tool is the cystocentesis. Feline idiopathic cystitis is another cause for urination outside the box, but typically it has some other symptoms beyond urinating outside the box such as pain when urinating and straining to urinate. It is not caused by bacteria--it's behavioral, so there is no test for it. Jude has both UTIs and FIC; his only symptoms are urinating outside the box and increased blood glucose numbers (he never strains or exhibits any pain while in the box (like crying while he's trying to urinate)).

If you think it's accidents, have you considered putting out more boxes so that she can get to them more quickly? Does she go to the box more frequently than your Civvie? Is she still drinking a lot when her numbers are higher?
 
Did the vet do a cystocentesis? Or did you catch a urine sample and take it in? The best diagnostic tool is the cystocentesis.
My vet isn’t very good at communicating so I don’t know exactly. I didn’t take a urine sample in tho. This is what my invoice says from February 17th:
Feline Senior Comprehensive - Superchem, SDMA, CBC, T4, UA, Feline HW, FeIV, FIV, Keyscreen

I remember him saying she didn’t have a UTI when we got the results. He did mention one thing about one of the results was a weird number and the lab must have misplaced a decimal or added an extra zero. Something like that. But I don’t recall what he was talking about.
Feline idiopathic cystitis is another cause for urination outside the box, but typically it has some other symptoms beyond urinating outside the box such as pain when urinating and straining to urinate. It is not caused by bacteria--it's behavioral, so there is no test for it. Jude has both UTIs and FIC; his only symptoms are urinating outside the box and increased blood glucose numbers (he never strains or exhibits any pain while in the box (like crying while he's trying to urinate)).
So how do you know the difference between FIC and an unregulated diabetic without the pain or straining? This is something I definitely need to do a deep dive on if you think it’s a possibility. I’m going to be very vulnerable for a sec and say this, the peeing has been the biggest stressor on me. I know I come on here and try to stay positive and look on the bright side but the peeing and my house smelling no matter how often I clean it has been the most embarrassing thing for me. So if there is something I can do to fix this, I’m willing to do it. I told my vet over and over that she hasn’t stopped peeing outside the box (except for that 1-2 weeks at the end of Vetsulin) and he would just be like “yeah….” and moved on like it was normal.
If you think it's accidents, have you considered putting out more boxes so that she can get to them more quickly? Does she go to the box more frequently than your Civvie? Is she still drinking a lot when her numbers are higher?
I have tried adding 2 new boxes in the spot she goes, her extra large box that she used before diabetes in that area, a low edge box, a high edge box with a low edge entrance, 2 different litters and even a new one last night, different litter depths, different protein options in her food. I even tried a litter box with just a puppy pad in it at one point. And I use 2 different kinds of enzyme cleaners and got a hover carpet cleaner to try to remove the smell markers.
Excluding the brief time she was using the box, I don’t see her go to the box to pee ever. She poops in there everytime tho. I watch her walk over near the box and then goes to squat and I have to pick her up and set her in the box and she’ll go.
I would say over 24 hours, she pees 2-3 times depending on the day and one of those is always sometime between 3am and 9am.
She doesn’t excessively drink anymore, she drinks a normal amount of water. It’s part of why I’ve been alittle confused. I do add water to her wet food tho.

Sorry for the long message.. I’ve apparently been holding this in for too long…
 
My vet isn’t very good at communicating so I don’t know exactly. I didn’t take a urine sample in tho. This is what my invoice says from February 17th:
Feline Senior Comprehensive - Superchem, SDMA, CBC, T4, UA, Feline HW, FeIV, FIV, Keyscreen

I remember him saying she didn’t have a UTI when we got the results. He did mention one thing about one of the results was a weird number and the lab must have misplaced a decimal or added an extra zero. Something like that. But I don’t recall what he was talking about.
I would call and ask what the test was to rule out the UTI. Ask if they performed a cystocentesis. It's typically going to be noted because it's a major test--they stick a needle into the bladder to withdraw urine. It sounds awful, I know, but I was actually with Jude when he had one once, and it didn't look like he was in any pain other than from the needle stick. If they didn't do this test, perhaps you might ask if you can have one done on her (and tell them she's still urinating outside the box).

So how do you know the difference between FIC and an unregulated diabetic without the pain or straining?
I'm going to rely on Cornell Vet School's explanation of diabetes-related polyuria: "Excessive thirst and urination can also signal diabetes in a cat. High levels of sugar in the blood can overwhelm the ability of the kidney to filter glucose, allowing sugar to “spill out” of the blood and into the urine. This high urine glucose concentration can actually pull excessive amounts of water into the urine, resulting in increased urine volume, increased urinary water loss, a propensity for dehydration, and a compensatory increase in thirst." So you can determine the amount of glucose in the urine by a urine dipstick test OR it's very likely to be on one of those tests (I'm sorry I'm not good with labs--Jude's urine bg is measured at the vet through a UA).

But it doesn't sound to me like Khloe is experiencing excessive urination; it sounds to me like she's urinating her normal amount, right? So even if she has glucose in her urine, it doesn't sound like that is causing her to urinate more frequently. So the urination outside the box is not likely being driven by a desire to urinate more frequently.

But, anyway, you can see from this process how sugar kitties can be more prone to UTIs.

For Jude, I don't know which he has (FIC or UTI) until I take him to the vet. They run a cysto on him and tell me if he has bacteria. If he has bacteria, we do a culture and sensitivity test to identify the correct antibiotic; if he doesn't have bacteria, I begin treating him for an FIC, which involves some medications, but no antibiotic. Sometimes he has both, according to my vet--the FIC flare will hang on after the bacteria is cleared.

Most people will tell you that a cat urinating outside the box is either an indication that they find the box uncomfortable for a variety of reasons (UTI or FIC--it hurts them to urinate) OR that they have found the box uncomfortable in the past (they've come to associate the box with pain when they need to urinate). The latter happened to Jude once. He experience a UTI (was urinating outside the box), we treated it, and he continued urinating outside the box. We tested him, and he was bacteria free. The doctor said "it's behavioral," and recommended I switch to a litter with an attractant (Dr. Elsey's--we started with the litter with attractant and later switched to the crystals with attractant because it's non-clumping which is better for FIC kitties), which we did, and things improved immediately. This was before we had an FIC diagnosis, so in honesty, I'm not sure if Jude's issue was just behavioral and he was associating the box with previous pain or if it was an FIC flare, but the litter with attractant help tremendously. It's complicated with these two issues, and I often don't have any idea what I'm dealing with but I have spiking bg numbers which tell me something is likely wrong in his body.

I would try to go through a process of elimination with Khloe. She has both high bg numbers AND she's urinating outside the box, but she doesn't have excessive urination. I think I would have her urine tested (cysto) and make sure they send it off for a culture and sensitivity; the culture and sensitivity is actually the more expensive of the two tests--I pay about $300 for it--but it's absolutely essential to ensure you are treating the bacteria with the correct antibiotic. If there is no infection, you might be dealing with a behavioral issue or FIC.

FIC is a whole thing, and I'll share with you everything I know if you want. But I would start with a litter with an attractant, if you're not already using one. You can buy the litter WITH the attractant in it OR you can buy the attractant and sprinkle it in your litter. We did the former.

Finally, urinating outside the box is a caregiver's nightmare!! I've never had a cat to do it before Jude. And feline diabetic urine STINKS. He has ruined untold pillows and whole pieces of furniture (he likes to pee on a soft spot). Everything in my house is completely covered with waterproof material to prevent urine from soaking through. I completely understand your concerns, frustration, embarrassment, etc. I feel it too.
 
You have no idea how seen and heard I feel right now. I thought I was just not being patience enough. I can’t thank you enough for bringing this to my attention. I’ve made so many mistakes, I’ve missed so many signs. Just.. thank you 😭
So you can determine the amount of glucose in the urine by a urine dipstick test OR it's very likely to be on one of those tests (I'm sorry I'm not good with labs--Jude's urine bg is measured at the vet through a UA).
I actually did one of these yesterday. The picture is deceiving and the colors are so similar but in person it looked closest to 60 for glucose (top) and negative for ketones (bottom)
IMG_7599.jpeg


My vet closes in 50 mins so I’m going to try to call them before they close to ask about those labs and go to the store to grab a litter attractant and then touch base with you again about the rest of the points you made.
Would you mind sharing which attractant you used? I just bought Dr.Elsey’s Ultra yesterday but will look into better litter tonight.

Again, Thank you Mary for making me feel alittle less alone and crazy.
 
Thank you Connie. I really hope she does too. I was getting alittle delirious today from lack of sleep so I hope she doesn’t keep me up all night.
Honestly I’ve been exhausted lately and when I counted up the blank cells in Moonie’s spreadsheet I realized why 😅

I hope you can get some good uninterrupted rest soon! As I keep saying (and not really doing), you have to care for yourself to be able to care for your kitty :)

I am hopeful though that once Moonie and Khloe settle into regulation, their patterns will become more predictable and that’ll allow us to sleep better!
 
I would call and ask what the test was to rule out the UTI. Ask if they performed a cystocentesis.
I called today and the vet was out sick but the front office said they did not see cystocentesis anywhere in her notes. I asked to have the labs from February emailed to me and was told the vet would have to do it when he returns. I also mentioned she is still not using the litter box.
My local Walmart didn’t have the Dr.Elsey attractant but I’ll just make an Amazon order for it.

I’m going to start with the attractant like you said and wait for the labs.
My gut really isn’t telling me UTI tho. I just feel like an untreated UTI would show more signs of pain or blood in the urine or something after 4/5 months. Am I wrong to lean that way?
On a plus side, she just had the one puddle this morning.

I know it’s late so I’ll pick your brain some more tomorrow. Wanted to give that update about the vet. If the attractant doesn’t work, we will set an appointment for cysotocentesis and go from there.
 
Honestly I’ve been exhausted lately and when I counted up the blank cells in Moonie’s spreadsheet I realized why 😅

I hope you can get some good uninterrupted rest soon! As I keep saying (and not really doing), you have to care for yourself to be able to care for your kitty :)

I am hopeful though that once Moonie and Khloe settle into regulation, their patterns will become more predictable and that’ll allow us to sleep better!
Why do we do this to ourselves? 😅 the price and issues with Libre almost seem worth it for the low alert alone!

And me too!! We really have to take better care of ourselves. I’m so happy to be on this journey with you, your positivity makes the days alittle easier.
 
My gut really isn’t telling me UTI tho. I just feel like an untreated UTI would show more signs of pain or blood in the urine or something after 4/5 months. Am I wrong to lean that way?
On a plus side, she just had the one puddle this morning.
That makes sense. I will tell you, though, that Jude's main UTI symptoms are 1) bg increases and 2) urinating outside the box. That's it. He doesn't cry in the box. He doesn't have blood in the box (though he has had blood in his urine when they perform the cysto--it's just not apparent in the box). When his bg numbers spike and he begins urinating outside the box, I know it's likely UT related. It's important to consider and keep in mind that there is a reason why she is urinating outside the box. It might be an infection; it might be behavioral. But it's important to explore that reason because both UTIs and FIC flares are apparently quite painful to cats (even though they are masterful at masking that pain). Truthfully, I would hope for her that it's a UTI; behavioral issues and FIC flares are much harder to manage, imho. I hope the litter attractant helps.

When Jude has a UTI, we now do injectable antibiotics because oral antibiotics TEAR UP his stomach and he stops eating which, as you know, is a big problem for cats with FD. The injectables have their own set of problems, but work better for him. If you find she doesn't have an infection, there are other things you can begin giving her to help with inflammation in the bladder (FIC flares). On an ongoing basis, here is what I give Jude to help calm inflammation in the bladder--and FIC is primarily an inflammation driven issue:

d-mannose
alcohol-free corn silk extract
dl-methionine
Cystease (I highly recommend this--it's good for healing the inflammation in the bladder AND it has a calming supplement l-trytophan)
A supplement called Urinary Gold (though I think we will switch to Tinkle Tonic soon...these names!!:rolleyes: LOL)
Prazosin, which is a prescription anti-spasmodic for his bladder that he takes daily
Bupenorphine (prescription) for pain when he is in an FIC flare--the gold standard for pain
We also have Gabapentin, but I can't give it when I'm giving him Bupe; I'll sometimes give the Gaba to him if I start to see his numbers going up because it reduces anxiety
We switched Jude's litter, as I mentioned before (to non-clumping)
We increased his water intake by putting water in his food (he NEVER drinks from the fountain)
We use Feliway dispensers all the time
We added litter boxes--big, open litter boxes

Also, doctors aren't always very helpful with UT issues in cats. I'm not sure why. Perhaps it's because UT issues are complicated and can be difficult to treat. But at the same time, they are also pedestrian--likely the most common issue cats suffer with. Our vet is reluctant to always send off the urine for a culture and sensitivity. He, instead, wants to try a broad spectrum antibiotic. In doing this, you run the risk of the cat developing antibiotic resistance if you don't treat them correctly with the appropriate antibiotic.

This is a lot, I know. Keep us posted with what the vet says about the tests.
 
Go Khloe! I see that she showed you a beautiful blue surf last night! Yay! 🌊🏄‍♀️

Albeit I can also see you didn’t sleep much 😅

That was a steep drop at +4 so I get it. I will say though - I’ve had to force myself to sleep and stop testing as soon as I start seeing numbers flatten or come up. So +6 in your case last night. Or like 6/22 pm for Moonie - I should have stopped testing at +4.5 and gone to sleep.

I’m sure you know all this but mentioning it in case it’s a helpful reminder from another cat mom. Counting up the blank cells on your pm cycles, I know you must be pretty exhausted.

I hope Khloe gives you a nice smooth surf today so that you can get some rest!!
 
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