Anyone here Please help!

A

Annie77!

Member
Romeo ate 3/4 of a can of FF and I gave him his shot for one unit. He's having labored breathing now and is lethargic. Is he showing signs of a bad reaction to the insulin? Please help!
 
Are you home testing? If so what is his glucose reading?

Do you have any karo syrup? If so, give him a little to help get his glucose levels to rise.

Also add the 911 prefix to your post to get more people to see it and respond. It may be he is hypoglycemic.
 
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Thank you for answering. I'm not home testing. He only started treatment yesterday and my vet didn't say anything about it. Is rapid breathing a sign of a reaction? I don't have Karo, would honey work?
 
Yes. Just a little. If you are not testing and he doesn't start to respond, you should take him to an emergency vet. Do you have any high carb food like canned food with gravy?
 
What if I'm wrong and it's something else rather than an overdose of Insulin? Would giving him corn syrup or other food be harmful?
 
Annie77! said:
What if I'm wrong and it's something else rather than an overdose of Insulin? Would giving him corn syrup or other food be harmful?
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It is better to be higher for a short while than too low for a moment. Hypoglycemia can be very dangerous if the glucose drops too low. I have tagged a few other members and hope they are online. I may have to drop off soon.
 
If you have kibble or cat treats try to get them to eat that. Anything they want to eat will help get them back up but you need to keep a close eye on them even if they eat. Syrups help but last for tiny tiny bursts.
 
Thank you so very much for your help. I just now gave him some FF broth. The only symptom I see is labored breathing.
 
Tomorrow I recommend that you buy a glucose meter and strips to learn how to home test. By testing before every dose you will know what his glucose levels are and if it is safe to give insulin. You can use any human glucose meter for testing. We can help you learn how to do it.
 
I just finished syringe feeding him 4 syringes of Hill's Urgent Care. He's walking without staggering and I'm not seeing other symptoms I've read about. I will buy a glucose meter and strips tomorrow. I truly appreciate everyone's help.
 
Keep an eye on him for at least another hour or two to make sure his glucose doesn't start dropping again. Maybe give a little more food in about 30 minutes to keep the levels up. I also suggest if you can't test before his next dose to skip it. It seems like 1 unit may be to high and you will need to reduce it.
 
How long it since you his insulin shot now? Have his symptoms gone? You want to keep an eye on him for at least 2 hours after the higher carbs you fed to ensure that he is OK after the carbs from the food wear off.
 
OP's previous thread: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-member-scared-out-of-my-mind.299933/

I would call the vet today and explain everything that happened. And definitely buy a blood glucose meter today at any pharmacy so you can start testing. Always test before giving insulin. That is the only way you know what your cats level is and if it's safe to give insulin or not. Newbies are generally advised to not give insulin at 150 mg/dl or lower.

To double check, did the vet show you how to measure insulin? 1 unit is a teeny drop, barely just past the zero line at the bottom of the syringe. The line marked as 10 is exactly that - 10 (TEN) units.

Do you have the correct insulin syringes to use with ProZinc? You need U40 insulin syringes. The syringe and packaging will clearly have U40 on them.
 
@Annie77!

U-40 syringes with half unit markings
We use these syringes with half unit markings because we adjust the doses by 0.25 units at a time and these make it easier to do that

https://www.chewy.com/ulticare-vetr...UXMApB0cErUdCN43mTYcWA9JOs3N51H8aAhdMEALw_wcB


Amazon also has them

UltiCare VetRx U-40 Pet Insulin Syringes, Comfortable and Accurate Dosing of Insulin for Pets, Compatible with Any U-40 Strength Insulin, Size: 3/10cc, 29G x ½’’, with Half Unit Markings, 100 ct Box
Amazon's
Choice

Amazon link
https://a.co/d/ecDK1ZF
 
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@Annie77!
How is Romeo

Here is the link for the meter and test strips so you don't have to search for them. Most of us use human meters
Relion Premier Classic Meter at Walmart for 9 dollars
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-CLASSIC-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System/552134103

The tests strips are 17.88 for 100
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-Blood-Glucose-Test-Strips-100-Count/575088197
At least if you need more test strips you can run into Walmart and pick them up or if you're running low you can just order them from Walmart on line



Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. Youcan fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
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6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capillaries it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 10 or 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets any brand
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand not the lancing device
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
Look at the lancet under a light and you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with

Try putting a thin layer of Vaseline on the ear so the blood will bead up


Here is a video one of our members made, just ignore when she has to code it, that's because she is using a pet meter ,with a human meter like the Relion no coding is needed
VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar
 
I don't know what to think. He ate well this morning and seems to be OK except that he is still breathing rapidly. I measured by counting his breaths for 15 seconds and then multiplied by 4. He had 52 breaths per minute. I'm going to call the vet as soon as they open. I did not give him his shot this morning because I'm afraid it might make the situation worse. I gave him the last insulin shot at around 6:30 pm yesterday.


I have U40 syringes and plan to get the blood meter today. Thank you so much for your replies. I will definitely use that information.
 
Annie77! said:
I don't know what to think. He ate well this morning and seems to be OK except that he is still breathing rapidly. I measured by counting his breaths for 15 seconds and then multiplied by 4. He had 52 breaths per minute. I'm going to call the vet as soon as they open. I did not give him his shot this morning because I'm afraid it might make the situation worse. I gave him the last insulin shot at around 6:30 pm yesterday.


I have U40 syringes and plan to get the blood meter today. Thank you so much for your replies. I will definitely use that information.
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@Bandit's Mom
 
Annie77! said:
I measured by counting his breaths for 15 seconds and then multiplied by 4. He had 52 breaths per minute.
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You counted an “in” and “out” as one breath, correct?

A resting respiration rate of 52 breaths per minute is definitely too high. There are a number of potential causes; diabetes isn’t necessarily at the top of my list. I would get him into a vet today. At minimum I would ask for a chest X-ray.

@Wendy&Neko
@Suzanne & Darcy

Just curious, how was the diabetes diagnosed? Was a fructosamine test run? What were the symptoms?
 
I measured by counting an in and out breath as one breath.

My receipt from the vet doesn't name the type of testing used for diabetes but I will find out. His main symptoms were losing weight, not being interested in dry food (which he formerly loved), and lethargy.
 
Ask for an itemized invoice. You should be able to get copies of all your cat's records too. I always get the test results and SOAP notes.

If you don't get much help from the vet on your cat's health issues, you should seek out a new vet.
 
Annie77! said:
His main symptoms were losing weight, not being interested in dry food (which he formerly loved), and lethargy.
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Did the vet check for ketones? If not, I’d definitely make sure they do that today as well.

Did the vet run full bloodwork at the last visit? I’d ask for a copy while you’re there.

I asked about a fructosamine—which is similar to a human A1c test—because it gives an average blood glucose (BG) over several weeks. Stress can cause significantly elevated BG in cats so it’s generally not a good idea to diagnose diabetes based on a single BG reading, especially when that reading is from a cat who is probably stressed by being at the clinic. I just had this happen (again) recently. One of my former ferals gave a BG of nearly 400 at the vet’s office, the vet tossed out the diabetes treatment options, and yet at home a few hours later the cat was back into the 80s on my meter (and continues to stay in normal range at home).
 
He has an appointment at 1:00 pm. He ate more and seems alert but is still breathing rapidly. I'll ask about the type of test and whether the vet checked for ketones. And I agree that he needs a chest x-ray. The vet treated him for pancreatitis about 6 weeks ago. One thing she prescribed was steroids. He finished those about a month ago.

Thank you for your support, everyone. It means a lot.
 
Annie77! said:
One thing she prescribed was steroids.
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Not sure if you’re aware, but steroids can cause transient diabetes in some cats. Happened to one of mine.

Glad you were able to get an appointment today. Please let us know how things turn out. I’ll be thinking about you.
 
Thank you. I didn't know that steroids could cause transient diabetes. I have MANY questions for my vet! I'll let you know what happens.
 
As it turned out, Romeo's rapid breathing was caused by fluid in his lungs and around his heart. The vet also discovered that his heart is enlarged. She drained the fluid and prescribed Lasix to remove the fluid. He tested negative for ketones in his original full bloodwork diagnosis and she said his diabetes is not transient. His blood sugar was high when the vet tested it and I gave him a shot when we got home.

My poor, sweet boy isn't even eight years old yet and he's had so many health problems. Two years ago he had perineal urethrostomy surgery. He had pancreatitis a couple of months ago and now diabetes and a heart condition.

I got an AlphaTrak3 monitoring system at the vet's. I was going to go for something much cheaper but my husband insisted on that one. One of the vet techs gave me a demonstration on how to use it. Bless you @Diane Tyler's Mom GA for the instructions on how to draw blood and posting the video. The video was very helpful since she's also using an AlphaTrak3. I'm very anxious about drawing blood for the first time. Romeo is not nearly as docile as the cat in the video.

Thank you, everyone, for your patience and kindness. I was very fortunate to find this forum. I feel very sad and discouraged right now but I'm going to keep fighting for my boy.
 
Buy a Human blood glucose meter as a back up. Test strips for Human meters are way cheaper than AlphaTrak. Plus you can use FSA / HSA funds for Human diabetic supplies (US only. Check your plan for details). Pet meters are no more accurate than a Human meter. WalMart's Relion meter is inexpensive and what many US members here use. All meters work basically the same way: insert test strip, touch edge of the strip to the blood drop, let the meter think and give a reading.

A few members use the Libre meter which sticks to a cat's shaved skin. Readings are sent to an app on your phone. It's supposed to be good for 2 weeks before it needs replacing but can fall off or malfunction before that :rolleyes: A vet puts the initial meter on and you can learn how to do it afterwards. These members also have a regular blood glucose meters on hand just in case the Libre falls off or stops working.
 
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Thanks @squeem3. I definitely plan to get a back up meter and Relion was my first choice. It's good to know that there's no difference in the accuracy of human and pet meters. I'll check out the FSA/HSA funds too. That would be very helpful! I'm watching every video I can find... Tomorrow morning will be my first attempt.
 
Annie77! said:
As it turned out, Romeo's rapid breathing was caused by fluid in his lungs and around his heart. The vet also discovered that his heart is enlarged. She drained the fluid and prescribed Lasix to remove the fluid. He tested negative for ketones in his original full bloodwork diagnosis and she said his diabetes is not transient.
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I am so glad that you got him in to the vet today and trusted your gut that something was very wrong with his breathing. I'm sorry that it wasn't better news. Please keep us posted. We are sending healing vines for Romeo. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Annie77! said:
As it turned out, Romeo's rapid breathing was caused by fluid in his lungs and around his heart. The vet also discovered that his heart is enlarged.
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Sorry to hear this. That was top of my list but I didn’t want to mention it and add more stress for you if it was something else.

Is there a board-certified cardiologist near you? I would certainly consider getting a referral and scheduling an appointment so you can get a firm diagnosis, treatment options, prognosis, and so on. Knowledge is power. A number of folks here have dealt with both diabetes and heart issues so you don’t have to feel alone. @Suzanne & Darcy already replied and @Wendy&Neko has a wealth of knowledge and experience as well.

For what it’s worth, lack of appetite and lethargy make perfect sense with fluid buildup and heart issues. Weight loss is common too. I just lost a youngish cat unexpectedly to hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and he had absolutely no symptoms. Perhaps in some small way, what happened today will turn out to be a positive and help you get a handle on treating any heart issues. Fingers crossed.

I’m also glad you’re planning to home test and got a BG meter (and plan to get a backup). Important detail: Human meters tend to run lower than pet meters (such as AlphaTrak), so the range that is considered “normal” for a human meter is a bit lower than the normal range for pet meters. It’ll be important to note that you’re using an AlphaTrak (AT) when you post BG values.
 
I would definitely get a cardiologist on Board. Enlarged heart is fairly non-specific and you need to know the type of cardiac disease because they are not all treated in the same way. The Lasix is okay to start with to help remove some of the fluid. There are other meds that can be helpful as well depending upon the situation. Romeo’s BPM (breaths per minute) should decrease as the Lasix starts to do its job. If not, please return to the vet. Sometimes the fluid actually needs to be removed from the pleural space and it requires a short sedation. Do not let them use Dex Domitor (Dexmedetomidine) for sedation as it can really decrease the heart’s ability to pump and Romeo may already have decreased capacity. They need to use a cardiac safe protocol— something safe like Torbutrol.

Pleural effusion needs to be removed manually to help them breathe. Pulmonary edema needs to be treated with medication to help clear the fluid. Usually a cat is put in oxygen while waiting for the medication to clear the lungs. I am thinking that ot was a pulmonary edema and not a pleural effusion since they did not recommend removing the fluid? Do you recall what they said?
 
Ditto what Suzanne said about a cardio vet if there is one in your area. You want to know the underlying cause of the heart disease and if there are other meds to help. This will probably mean an echocardiogram.

The RR (respiratory rate) should be done while Romeo is resting and should be in the 20-30 range, but can depend on the cat. For Neko, over 26 was the danger zone. But she also had bradycardia (slow heart rate). Test RR at least daily for now.

Side note, with heart disease, prednisolone will likely be contra indicated going forward.
 
Romeo is better today. The rapid breathing has subsided, he ate well this morning and got his shot. I live in a semi-rural location and, unfortunately, the nearest cardiologist is around a hundred miles away. I'll ask my vet if she knows anyone closer. I want to do everything I possibly can for Romeo, but I'm on a fixed income and his current vet bills are approaching the $1000 range now. I haven't tested him yet because I'm waiting for my husband to help or to at least provide some moral support.
 
There are a couple tricks to make home testing easier. First is to relax. Romeo will pick up if you are nervous or stressed and will respond the same way. One suggestion is to sing while testing him. The sillier the song the better. It is hard to be nervous when you are doing something silly. Yes, this sounds crazy but it works.

Next is to always give him a low carb treat after testing, even if it is not successful. You want him to associate testing with something good and treats are a good motivator. Freeze dried or cooked chicken is a great low carb treat
 
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