Back with new diabetic cat; Senvelgo observations

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Nan & Amber (GA)

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Hello again!

Long-ago forum member, back with newly diabetic cat (former feral Buddy). Here mostly to share observations about one of the new diabetes meds, Senvelgo, hoping that there are or will be other members trying it so that we can all figure out the issues together.

Unlike my previous diabetics, Buddy is very, very, very resistant to being poked, whether it's with insulin needles or ear pricks. After several false starts with insulin, vet finally talked me into trying the Senvelgo as a last-ditch. I also insisted on a Freestyle Libre for the first couple of weeks so I can see what this very new med is doing.

Important caveat about Senvelgo and similar medications: they are not for every cat, and come with a significant risk of diabetic ketoacidosis. Any cat can be at risk of ketones on these meds, and should be monitored closely, but the risk is much higher with cats who have previously been on insulin.

Results so far:

1. This medication is very powerful stuff, at least for this cat. It drops him from 300's to under 100 in less than an hour, and keeps him there for hours or even days (manufacturer info says that activity is expected to persist for 2-3 days).
2. I'm quite worried about how low it drops him; he dips under 50 on the Libre every day, sometimes multiple times a day. Vet insists that it's "not possible for them to go dangerously low" on these meds, but I can't get a good explanation for why this would be so. Very concerning with a cat I can't (yet?) test...
3. The fact that he is now spending basically all his time in green numbers gives me some hope for remission, but it's not at all clear to me how I would be able to tell he has gotten there. I know that urine testing should give some indication, but I don't have a clear criterion in mind. If anyone knows of a protocol for this, please let me know!
4. He's definitely not in remission at this point. I know this because he's also been difficult about taking the medication (I mix it in with treat-type wet foods, and he's extremely inconsistent about eating those, sigh) and he got only partial/nonexistent doses for a few days running last week. On the third day, numbers shot back up! (and along the way, I guess we managed to verify the estimate of 2-3 days of activity from the last full dose, good job us :rolleyes:)
5. The only patient experiences I've been able to find focus on the side effects (diarrhea, etc.). We've had nothing in that area, Buddy tolerates the med just fine (when he takes it).

Libre will run out soon and I probably won't put another one on, at least for right now. I'm hoping that being in better numbers will make Buddy more cooperative on ear pricks, but until then, I will be in the dark on his responses to the medication :nailbiting:.

Just wanted to share what I've learned so far, hoping to hear from others who are trying this med or have other information about it. It's so new, I've found very little info about it that is not basically advertising from the manufacturer, hopefully we can start to gather some on-the-ground patient experiences!
 
Hi Nan, nice to see you! :). There have been a few CGs recently who have tried Senvelgo. Sienne put together this informative post about New Treatments

Sounds like you are having some positive results, since Buddy is spending some good amount of time in the lagoon, hoping you continue with good progress. Out of curiosity did you also happen to make any diet changes? As for the Libre, many members have recently been finding it can be quite unreliable under 100, so what is 50 on Libre may well be higher greens or low blues with a human meter. And also anecdotal evidence of wonky results when getting to the end of its 14 day use in the cat. Just a few things I thought I’d mention.

@Staci & Ivy has used the Libre with Ivy for quite some time, perhaps she can share some of her thoughts.
 
Hi!

That is very good to know about the Libre, thank you! It's my first time using one of them, seeing these numbers (and knowing that they are probably going to be the last numbers I see for a while) has been pretty nerve-wracking despite the vet's assurances. I will say that Buddy has shown no signs of hypoglycemia, no matter where the Libre said he was.

Sienne's post was extremely informative as well. Wish we could magic some long-term studies out of thin air instantly with these new drugs, but what can you do?

Yes, he was switched to low-carb first thing, and had been on it exclusively for over a month by the time we threw in the towel and decided to try the meds + Libre. Actually, I did a round of the Libre first before trying the meds, because I was really hoping that the diet change might be enough. Spent most of his time in the 300's, sigh, so onto the meds we went...
 
It really is interesting to hear your experience with Senvelgo, I’m glad you are sharing it, especially that you often see he stays under 100 for days. I certainly can’t get that kind of duration for either L insulins :p. How long has Buddy been taking it then? And are you giving it every day?
 
A little over two weeks now, but with a lot of missed/partial doses in there.

Yes, the response has been so good (better even than the advertised results from the maker), I wasn't even unhappy with the most recent set of missed doses because I wondered "what if?" he'd gotten snapped into remission. No such luck, it turned out, but I really can't complain!
 
A little over two weeks now, but with a lot of missed/partial doses in there.

Yes, the response has been so good (better even than the advertised results from the maker), I wasn't even unhappy with the most recent set of missed doses because I wondered "what if?" he'd gotten snapped into remission. No such luck, it turned out, but I really can't complain!
You may yet get there, since it’s only been a few weeks, and only Buddy really knows what he’s got up his paw ;)
 
Hi, Nan. Sorry to see that you're back but it's great that Buddy has an experienced caregiver.

There have been some issues with Senvelgo. It's hard to know if the issues were the insulin or the vet. Some of our members got some less than stellar advice (e.g., it was OK to start a cat on Senvelgo when the cat had ketones present). Since the product is so new, I would be sure to get labs if you have any concerns over the issues I outlined in the post. From what I could tell, none of the SGLT2 manufacturers or outside researchers mention home testing. Further, they say nothing about remission. I haven't a clue what it means if a cat is in normal numbers. I honestly don't know if it means you can stop the drug or if a cat has to remain on the drug forever.
 
From what I could tell, none of the SGLT2 manufacturers or outside researchers mention home testing. Further, they say nothing about remission. I haven't a clue what it means if a cat is in normal numbers. I honestly don't know if it means you can stop the drug or if a cat has to remain on the drug forever.

Yup. There doesn't (yet) seem to be a lot of attention on medium-term questions (actual remission vs. just low BG during the period of a study), let alone long-term (what will the long-term effect of these drugs be on, say, the kidneys? I have concerns!).

Really, this is one of the reasons I decided to post these observations here, there seems to be a lot of vet enthusiasm for these drugs right now but not a ton of independent information or experience. While we wait for more data, perhaps it will be helpful to share anecdotes, maybe we can start to flesh out the story told by the short-term BG studies.

Definitely watching like a hawk, getting regular labs, etc.
 
Hi Nan, nice to see you! :). There have been a few CGs recently who have tried Senvelgo. Sienne put together this informative post about New Treatments

Sounds like you are having some positive results, since Buddy is spending some good amount of time in the lagoon, hoping you continue with good progress. Out of curiosity did you also happen to make any diet changes? As for the Libre, many members have recently been finding it can be quite unreliable under 100, so what is 50 on Libre may well be higher greens or low blues with a human meter. And also anecdotal evidence of wonky results when getting to the end of its 14 day use in the cat. Just a few things I thought I’d mention.

@Staci & Ivy has used the Libre with Ivy for quite some time, perhaps she can share some of her thoughts.
Hi Nan, wishing you the best of luck with Buddy!
As Christie mentioned I do use a Libre 3 for Ivy who hates to be poked.
For Ivy I do notice that the low numbers on the Libre are usually higher on a handheld meter. A “Lo” can be 60 to 100 on a handheld (I assume because bg is fluctuating and it depends on when I do the actual test, etc).
But I do test when I can when she’s in the lower range so I have a good idea of where she is lingering and if she’s safe.
I have read on the forum other cats whose readings are closer between their handheld and their Libre. So I don’t know why that is. Maybe ECID???
I hope this helps! :bighug:
 
Thanks, Bron! Good to see you too! I feel like I have missed a lot here since I've been gone...

A little nervous about being one of the early adopters on one of these new meds-- never thought it'd be me doing this after multiple diabetic cats, but Buddy had other ideas ("Needles? Ear pricks? Nuh-uh, not me!!!!!!") so here I am. So far so good on his response to the meds, at least. I am lucky in that he's in good health other than FD, so he was a good candidate.

Hope all is well with you!
 
Hello again!

Long-ago forum member, back with newly diabetic cat (former feral Buddy). Here mostly to share observations about one of the new diabetes meds, Senvelgo, hoping that there are or will be other members trying it so that we can all figure out the issues together.

Unlike my previous diabetics, Buddy is very, very, very resistant to being poked, whether it's with insulin needles or ear pricks. After several false starts with insulin, vet finally talked me into trying the Senvelgo as a last-ditch. I also insisted on a Freestyle Libre for the first couple of weeks so I can see what this very new med is doing.

Important caveat about Senvelgo and similar medications: they are not for every cat, and come with a significant risk of diabetic ketoacidosis. Any cat can be at risk of ketones on these meds, and should be monitored closely, but the risk is much higher with cats who have previously been on insulin.

Results so far:

1. This medication is very powerful stuff, at least for this cat. It drops him from 300's to under 100 in less than an hour, and keeps him there for hours or even days (manufacturer info says that activity is expected to persist for 2-3 days).
2. I'm quite worried about how low it drops him; he dips under 50 on the Libre every day, sometimes multiple times a day. Vet insists that it's "not possible for them to go dangerously low" on these meds, but I can't get a good explanation for why this would be so. Very concerning with a cat I can't (yet?) test...
3. The fact that he is now spending basically all his time in green numbers gives me some hope for remission, but it's not at all clear to me how I would be able to tell he has gotten there. I know that urine testing should give some indication, but I don't have a clear criterion in mind. If anyone knows of a protocol for this, please let me know!
4. He's definitely not in remission at this point. I know this because he's also been difficult about taking the medication (I mix it in with treat-type wet foods, and he's extremely inconsistent about eating those, sigh) and he got only partial/nonexistent doses for a few days running last week. On the third day, numbers shot back up! (and along the way, I guess we managed to verify the estimate of 2-3 days of activity from the last full dose, good job us :rolleyes:)
5. The only patient experiences I've been able to find focus on the side effects (diarrhea, etc.). We've had nothing in that area, Buddy tolerates the med just fine (when he takes it).

Libre will run out soon and I probably won't put another one on, at least for right now. I'm hoping that being in better numbers will make Buddy more cooperative on ear pricks, but until then, I will be in the dark on his responses to the medication :nailbiting:.

Just wanted to share what I've learned so far, hoping to hear from others who are trying this med or have other information about it. It's so new, I've found very little info about it that is not basically advertising from the manufacturer, hopefully we can start to gather some on-the-ground patient experiences!
Hi Nan just found this post I too have recently gone onto using Senvelgo… on insulin he just could not stabilise he was going from hi to very low in the middle of the night… so as he’d only been on the insulin a few weeks my vet suggested this new medication as I was getting zero sleep preventing hypo attacks… he’s been on it 5days now I just syringe it into his mouth and give him a treat after and he’s fine with that so he’s getting full doses I tried it on food he wouldn’t touch it so now we have a good routine and he’s associated it with treat time… so far zero ketones and he’s responded amazingly his numbers are in the green all the time eating well his fur has stopped having that greasy look and he looks more well in himself I just get worried everytime I check his urine because the difference has been very marked and I don’t want to go back onto insulin with him …he has a Libre tag so I can track everything and I have another in the cupboard so I’m still going to put that on him for a while just for peace of mind but so far good fingers crossed … how are you getting on with it now is he still on the new meds
 
@VictoriaVic
I am concerned to read you are using senvelgo after using insulin in your kitty. This in not recommended to do at all. Here is what the information says
What is important to consider regarding Bexacat and Senvelgo is they are NOT indicated for cats that have already been treated with insulin.

***Please read the link about the new treatments in the link in post 2 above.

Are you testing for ketones in the urine? It is very important you do as DKA is a real risk for cats using these oral treatments. I would test for ketones daily.

If I were you I would go back to the vet and tell him giving the oral treatment after using insulin is contraindicated. He should know this.

We have had a few sad outcomes with cats using these oral treatments so please don’t just leave it and see.
 
@VictoriaVic
I am concerned to read you are using senvelgo after using insulin in your kitty. This in not recommended to do at all. Here is what the information says
What is important to consider regarding Bexacat and Senvelgo is they are NOT indicated for cats that have already been treated with insulin.

***Please read the link about the new treatments in the link in post 2 above.

Are you testing for ketones in the urine? It is very important you do as DKA is a real risk for cats using these oral treatments. I would test for ketones daily.

If I were you I would go back to the vet and tell him giving the oral treatment after using insulin is contraindicated. He should know this.

We have had a few sad outcomes with cats using these oral treatments so please don’t just leave it and see.
Hi …Yes I’ve been testing his urine everyday and it’s been clear we tried it because he was so unstable on insulin and for over 3weeks I was up every hour at night because he was tanking his numbers got very low and very scary the vets liased with the manufacturer and we tested for a week before starting treatment his ketones and continued after but the difference in him is very marked he seems so far …more stable and I know if used insulin they say don’t give but he was only on a very short time and the manufacturer said that would be ok it’s when its long term because they are more likely insulin dependent

thought I’d add this too they told me not to give insulin the day before starting treatment so he didn’t have any at all the day before and that was instructed from the manufacturer and the vet
 
Hi Nan,

I have seen two incredibly sad cases of cats on Senvelgo go wrong in the last week. It happened so fast for those cats. If you haven’t already, I would strongly encourage you to search and read about these stories. Even if you don’t change from Senvelgo, maybe that would help with identifying where they went wrong early so you can intervene.
 
Hi Nan,

I have seen two incredibly sad cases of cats on Senvelgo go wrong in the last week. It happened so fast for those cats. If you haven’t already, I would strongly encourage you to search and read about these stories. Even if you don’t change from Senvelgo, maybe that would help with identifying where they went wrong early so you can intervene.
I hope it works for him because he was just awful on insulin and they told me he was at such a risk of a hypo because he wasn’t stabilising at all …he wears a Libre and it read hi because he went off the scale in the day and at night he went the other way so low where I was having to get him to eat every hour and rub honey in his gums and it just would not hardly raise his blood glucose… but we’ve been very careful with him testing before treatment for ketones and after every single day …I get up at 5am to get his first pee sample before I give him another dose … even if it’s trace he stops immediately and has to go back on insulin but I hope not because it was so scary seeing him on that… his levels have been in normal range for 5days now and zero ketones in his urine… I’m taking no chances with him and I’m monitoring him so much… just keeping my fingers crossed because these last 5days been heaven in comparison
 
The Libre tends to give inaccurately numbers when the blood glucose readings are in a lower range -- it's a false low number. The other issue may be that you need to reduce the insulin dose.

Please start your own thread so we can answer your questions as they don't apply to Nan & Amber.
 
The libre tends to read low esp in low numbers.

SGLT2 inhibitors (senvelgo/bexacat) will always produce normal glucose numbers so “green” has zero implication for remission (sorry). This is because those drugs prevent normal kidney re uptake of glucose. Cats on an SGLT2 should have normal BG and if they don’t either the drug is bad, given incorrectly, or something else is going on.

I have a lot of theories on remission in general and in particular w/SGLT2 but want to get some reference to attach and then post in think tank. In short I don’t think there’s magic to the drug or the dosing regime that leads to remission—it’s the underlying cause of the diabetes and depending on that, drugs may have a potential to help
 
Yup. There doesn't (yet) seem to be a lot of attention on medium-term questions (actual remission vs. just low BG during the period of a study), let alone long-term (what will the long-term effect of these drugs be on, say, the kidneys? I have concerns!).

Really, this is one of the reasons I decided to post these observations here, there seems to be a lot of vet enthusiasm for these drugs right now but not a ton of independent information or experience. While we wait for more data, perhaps it will be helpful to share anecdotes, maybe we can start to flesh out the story told by the short-term BG studies.

Definitely watching like a hawk, getting regular labs, etc.
What “regular labs” are you getting?
 
Hi Nan,

I have seen two incredibly sad cases of cats on Senvelgo go wrong in the last week. It happened so fast for those cats. If you haven’t already, I would strongly encourage you to search and read about these stories. Even if you don’t change from Senvelgo, maybe that would help with identifying where they went wrong early so you can intervene.
@Nan & Amber (GA) These are two recent examples (not sure if the same Tim saw)
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...cat-in-dka-refusing-food.292644/#post-3196986


https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/senvelgo-lucys-downfall.295714/#post-3223385
 
N
Vet insists that it's "not possible for them to go dangerously low" on these meds, but I can't get a good explanation for why this would be so. Very concerning with a cat I can't (yet?) test...

you may have read my explanation elsewhere but this is how SGLT2 inhibitors work (with an improved analogy over my last attempt) toy boats (glucose) are floating downstream (in the blood). They reach a narrowed area (kidneys) where some boats are shunted back around to the start of the stream (SGLT2 transport in the kidney). You have a net (insulin) to scoop out the boats (use glucose in body). SGLT2 drugs open the narrow area and close the shunt so all the boats are now racing away (glucose getting rapidly peed out of the body rather than recirculated ). You can still use your net but if it’s broken or worse missing (impaired or absent insulin production) then you will have less boats (normal glucose) but will not be able to capture any (insufficient glucose for the body). This is why cats who don’t produce enough insulin (for example pancreatitis) or can’t mobilize storages (liver damage) shouldn’t be on it. It is also why you will always have normal glucose readings (all the glucose in in the urine). As long as the cat makes insulin (has a net) it will pull out the glucose it needs (grab the boats) before the glucose reaches the kidneys. So in theory hypoglycemia is not a risk in an otherwise healthy/normal cat that is eating and can produce its own insulin. Note all the qualifiers.

The fact that he is now spending basically all his time in green numbers gives me some hope for remission, but it's not at all clear to me how I would be able to tell he has gotten there.

I believe a trial off would be the only way. If the drug is working their blood glucose will be normal and they will likely have glucose in their urine. I think most cats would be expected to be on it rather permanently unless things change that allows for better insulin sensitivity. For example if a cat were quite obese eating kibble and lost weight and changed diet. Or on steroids and no longer required steroids. From what little anecdotal reports I could find remission was mentioned only as it related to needing to stop the meds for some other reason (pancreatic or kidney damage for example) and the cat remained euglycemic despite stopping the meds. Being on an SGLT2 helps in cases like the examples I gave because they lower the circulating blood levels, so halt the vicious cycle of high BG-increased insulin resistance—higher BG. That may in theory allow the body to normalize a bit. But it’s not going to cure the underlying cause of the insulin resistance (in many humans and probably many cats—obesity). Humans (and likely cats) lose weight initially on SGLT2s because they are peeing out glucose (and calories). This can help with obesity but it carries risks—humans usually compensate the calorie/glucose loss with eating more when hungry. Cats usually can’t help themselves to food so pet parents do need to be sure they are receiving adequate calories and not losing weight too much because if they aren’t getting adequate calories they set themselves up for ketosis

more about kidneys: there is some concern that the stress put on kidneys and the potential to get dehydrated could damage human diabetic kidneys but studies so far seem to say that risk is outweighed by the nephroprotective effect of lowering insulin resistance and blood pressure. I don’t know if the same holds true in cats. In man and cat the excess (edit: GLUCOSE) sitting in the bladder may increase risk of uti so keep an eye out for those
 
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