Newly diagnosed, can't seem to bear insulin- stopps eating

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Polly Pitcham

Polly Pitcham

Member Since 2022
Good morning to this valuable team! My cat Polly (17 years old) was diagnosed with diabetes 2 months ago. We went to the vet (cause i could see something was wrong) and her blood sugar was 297. The vet prescribed caninsulin 5 units twice a day (10 units per day). The second day she had severe hypoglycaemia (BG under 30)-almost fatal- and at first i skipped a dose but it turned out that the dosage was too high. So we stopped insulin. Then we decided to give her 2,5 units twice a day and the second day she had again hypo ,a while after the shot, while the BG continued to drop -even that i fed her cabs- .[ I was monitoring her BG (thanks to your advice) and the nadir BG was 6-8 hours after the shot (mostly 8 hours after the shot)]. The whole experience was very scary so i decided to stop insulin. I give her low carb food ( although i m not so sure that animonda integral renal pouches have same amount of carbs as the pate in the can but she doesn't like the pate). Her BG is, now, most of the time around 300 (+ - 20) and sometimes -rarely- 240-250 . There is also another problem: After taking insulin she stopps eating (!) although i tried so many different foods. I hope i gave enough information. Should i start insulin again? I could really use your help.
 
Hi and welcome to the forum to you and Polly.
Yikes! I can’t believe the vet prescribed 5 units of caninsulin twice a day! That is a huge dose for a cat!
The starting dose for a cat is 0.5 to 1 unit of caninsulin.
I am so glad you are home testing the BGs! Well done!
I’m guessing you live in the UK…is that correct?

When you feed Polly, are you wanting 30 minutes before you give the dose of insulin?
What are you feeding Polly? Are you giving snacks as well as the main meals?
I am going to give you some information about caninsulin….it is not a great insulin for cats as it hits pretty fast and doesn’t last the 12 hours it needs to. It is really meant for dogs. Lantus and Prozinc are both much better insulins for cats

Introduction to caninsulin

BEGINNERS GUIDE TO CANINSULIN

If you are feeding a low carb diet, I would give 0.5 units twice a day
If you are feeding a dry diet or food overs 10%carbs I would give 1 unit twice a day.
If the blood glucose is around 300, I would definitely give insulin as you run the risk of your kitty developing ketones if you don’t give insulin.

I would also buy some KETOSTIX from a pharmacy and test the urine for ketones each day at the moment.

Here is another link for you with useful information. l would really recommend you set up a hypo kit is you haven’t already done so!:)
You might like to set up a spreadsheet so we can help you with dosing
HELP US HELP YOU

keep asking questions!
Bron
 
Hi and welcome to the group! Bron is a super smart guru and helped me and my kitty a ton. Great advice there, 5 units is WAY too much my goodness. So glad your kitty didn't die! My kitty was on Lantus which worked very well. If you can get your vet to prescribe Lantus or ProZinc instead, that would be a lot better for your kitty.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi and welcome to the forum to you and Polly.
Yikes! I can’t believe the vet prescribed 5 units of caninsulin twice a day! That is a huge dose for a cat!
The starting dose for a cat is 0.5 to 1 unit of caninsulin.
I am so glad you are home testing the BGs! Well done!
I’m guessing you live in the UK…is that correct?

When you feed Polly, are you wanting 30 minutes before you give the dose of insulin?
What are you feeding Polly? Are you giving snacks as well as the main meals?
I am going to give you some information about caninsulin….it is not a great insulin for cats as it hits pretty fast and doesn’t last the 12 hours it needs to. It is really meant for dogs. Lantus and Prozinc are both much better insulins for cats

Introduction to caninsulin

BEGINNERS GUIDE TO CANINSULIN

If you are feeding a low carb diet, I would give 0.5 units twice a day
If you are feeding a dry diet or food overs 10%carbs I would give 1 unit twice a day.
If the blood glucose is around 300, I would definitely give insulin as you run the risk of your kitty developing ketones if you don’t give insulin.

I would also buy some KETOSTIX from a pharmacy and test the urine for ketones each day at the moment.

Here is another link for you with useful information. l would really recommend you set up a hypo kit is you haven’t already done so!:)
You might like to set up a spreadsheet so we can help you with dosing
HELP US HELP YOU

keep asking questions!
Bron
Click to expand...
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi and welcome to the forum to you and Polly.
Yikes! I can’t believe the vet prescribed 5 units of caninsulin twice a day! That is a huge dose for a cat!
The starting dose for a cat is 0.5 to 1 unit of caninsulin.
I am so glad you are home testing the BGs! Well done!
I’m guessing you live in the UK…is that correct?

When you feed Polly, are you wanting 30 minutes before you give the dose of insulin?
What are you feeding Polly? Are you giving snacks as well as the main meals?
I am going to give you some information about caninsulin….it is not a great insulin for cats as it hits pretty fast and doesn’t last the 12 hours it needs to. It is really meant for dogs. Lantus and Prozinc are both much better insulins for cats

Introduction to caninsulin

BEGINNERS GUIDE TO CANINSULIN

If you are feeding a low carb diet, I would give 0.5 units twice a day
If you are feeding a dry diet or food overs 10%carbs I would give 1 unit twice a day.
If the blood glucose is around 300, I would definitely give insulin as you run the risk of your kitty developing ketones if you don’t give insulin.

I would also buy some KETOSTIX from a pharmacy and test the urine for ketones each day at the moment.

Here is another link for you with useful information. l would really recommend you set up a hypo kit is you haven’t already done so!:)
You might like to set up a spreadsheet so we can help you with dosing
HELP US HELP YOU

keep asking questions!
Bron
Click to expand...
Thank you for your reply Bron! I live in Greece and i feel really lucky that thanks to a facebook team i found this group. I' ll start giving her 0.5 unit and let you know.
 
If you need any help with the spreadsheet we can help you with that. I will tag @Bandit's Mom for you.
Also to keep her safe, always test before every shot and don’t give the dose of the BG is under 200 if you are using a human meter or about 230 if using a pet meter to test the BGs. You can stall, dont feed and test again in 20minutes to see if the BG is rising. You can also post and ask for help.
Looking forward to hearing how things are going
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
If you need any help with the spreadsheet we can help you with that. I will tag @Bandit's Mom for you.
Also to keep her safe, always test before every shot and don’t give the dose of the BG is under 200 if you are using a human meter or about 230 if using a pet meter to test the BGs. You can stall, dont feed and test again in 20minutes to see if the BG is rising. You can also post and ask for help.
Looking forward to hearing how things are going
Click to expand...
I think i will need help with that . I 'll let you know if i find it too complicated . Thank you!
 
If you can fill out what we call our signature that will be helpful,it's at the end of everyone's post in gray

To set up your signature which you will see is at the end of everyone's post in gray, click on your name up top and then tap on the word signature and add this information
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Take a look at mine


We also use a spreadsheet to track our cats BG so we know how the insulin is working and how low they are dropping so we know when to either increase or decrease the dose
We adjust the dose by 0.25 units at a time . We don't adjust the dose by going by the Pre Shots

About the spreadsheet
AMPS - means AM Pre Shot the first test you take in the AM ,you need to withhold food 2 hours before testing so it's not food influenced

Units is where you would put how much insulin you gave
+1 is one hour after giving insulin if you were to test then that's where you enter his _BG number
+2 two hours after giving insulin. ditto
+3 and so on until you get to PMPS - PM pre shot withhold food 2 hours before testing

+1 same as you do for AM cycle

We don't give times because we are all in different time zones that's why we use the + numbers
I'll give you the link to set it up , if you have trouble just ask and we have a member who will gladly do it for you


You can look at any members spreadsheet to see what it looks like, it's at the end of everyone's signature just tap on it

Link to create a spreadsheet
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
If you can fill out what we call our signature that will be helpful,it's at the end of everyone's post in gray

To set up your signature which you will see is at the end of everyone's post in gray, click on your name up top and then tap on the word signature and add this information
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Take a look at mine


We also use a spreadsheet to track our cats BG so we know how the insulin is working and how low they are dropping so we know when to either increase or decrease the dose
We adjust the dose by 0.25 units at a time . We don't adjust the dose by going by the Pre Shots

About the spreadsheet
AMPS - means AM Pre Shot the first test you take in the AM ,you need to withhold food 2 hours before testing so it's not food influenced

Units is where you would put how much insulin you gave
+1 is one hour after giving insulin if you were to test then that's where you enter his _BG number
+2 two hours after giving insulin. ditto
+3 and so on until you get to PMPS - PM pre shot withhold food 2 hours before testing

+1 same as you do for AM cycle

We don't give times because we are all in different time zones that's why we use the + numbers
I'll give you the link to set it up , if you have trouble just ask and we have a member who will gladly do it for you


You can look at any members spreadsheet to see what it looks like, it's at the end of everyone's signature just tap on it

Link to create a spreadsheet
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/
Click to expand...
Thank you.
 
Hi Gina, thanks for adding the data to the SS.
What I would suggest you do is try and get some tests in during the pm cycle as it is just as important as the am cycle. A +2 is good and / or a before bed test. If that test is lower than the preshot BG, that is giving you a heads up that the BG might drop further during that cycle so I would set the alarm and get a later test.
Areyou giving snacks during the first half of all the cycles as well as the preshot meal.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi Gina, thanks for adding the data to the SS.
What I would suggest you do is try and get some tests in during the pm cycle as it is just as important as the am cycle. A +2 is good and / or a before bed test. If that test is lower than the preshot BG, that is giving you a heads up that the BG might drop further during that cycle so I would set the alarm and get a later test.
Areyou giving snacks during the first half of all the cycles as well as the preshot meal.
Click to expand...
Hi Bron! I'm not giving snacks because Polly doesn't eat the whole preshot meal, so she eats all day through (except 2 hours before each shot so that i could test the BG). She is a bit difficult with food -sometimes she just licks the gravy-. (I give her Integra protect renal pouches and i have tried so many other low carb food, still trying!)
 
Polly Pitcham said:
(I give her Integra protect renal pouches and i have tried so many other low carb food, still trying!)
Click to expand...
This is the list of low carb foods available in the UK and most of EU. Maybe you can find some of them in Greece. We do have members in Greece feeding low carb wet food.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J5JpMe6TDXrHq_aTl9hUtHy6Gs9oRBqlz4nPGKxtySA/pubhtml

I can tag @Melita & Chnoudi she lives in Greece maybe she has some low carb food suggestions. She hasn't been on much though
 
Last edited:
Polly Pitcham said:
I' m scared because we had some hypos before. With PMPS 190 should i give the shot?
Click to expand...
Sorry no one saw I'll tag Bron and see what she would have said and going forward
If you didn't give insulin can you put Skip in the U cell
@Bron and Sheba (GA)

Also Melissa
@FrostD

Bhooma can you take a look at her SS we have to tap on US to see the BG's , it just doesn't look like ours
@Bandit's Mom

Ladies Polly lives in Greece
 
Last edited:
Hi Gina, as you asked many hours ago, and nothing is written in the SS I am assuming you skipped the dose.
If that happens again, change the subject line to alert us that you need help.
Melissa @FrostD would be better placed to offer advice on Caninsulin…I think she has used it but I could be wrong…
You can stall, don’t do feed and test again in 20 minutes to see if the BG is rising.
You can also always give a reduced dose if you think the preshot is too low.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi Gina, as you asked many hours ago, and nothing is written in the SS I am assuming you skipped the dose.
If that happens again, change the subject line to alert us that you need help.
Melissa @FrostD would be better placed to offer advice on Caninsulin…I think she has used it but I could be wrong…
You can stall, don’t do feed and test again in 20 minutes to see if the BG is rising.
You can also always give a reduced dose if you think the preshot is too low.
Click to expand...
Thank you.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Sorry no one saw I'll tag Bron and see what she would have said and going forward
If you didn't give insulin can you put Skip in the U cell
@Bron and Sheba (GA)

Also Melissa
@FrostD

Bhooma can you take a look at her SS we have to tap on US to see the BG's , it just doesn't look like ours
@Bandit's Mom

Ladies Polly lives in Greece
Click to expand...
Sorry I did not get this tag.

I'd have recommended the full 0.5U dose if you could test her again later in the cycle around +4. Otherwise I'd have said 0.25U. But you did the safe thing, so no worries.

You want nadir around 90. You shot 0.5U at a BG of 239 and still had good wiggle room, hence why I'd have recommended trying the full dose.

The good news is she seems to be doing well on Caninsulin, not all cats do!
 
FrostD said:
Sorry I did not get this tag.

I'd have recommended the full 0.5U dose if you could test her again later in the cycle around +4. Otherwise I'd have said 0.25U. But you did the safe thing, so no worries.

You want nadir around 90. You shot 0.5U at a BG of 239 and still had good wiggle room, hence why I'd have recommended trying the full dose.

The good news is she seems to be doing well on Caninsulin, not all cats do!
Click to expand...
I m so glad! You are so encouraging. Thank you! i think i will stick to this dose for some time. :cat:
 
I along with others, received this PM from @Polly Pitcham and will answer it here
Goodmorning! Polly ,17 years old, was diagnosed in September 2022 and after some adventures (5 units of caninsulin at first, severe hypos, then 0,5 unit of caninsulin) she seemed to be doing quite allright with caninsulin. But after a while it was as if she was taking no insulin at all. We started increasing the dosage but she doesn't seem to respond not even to 1,5 unit that she' s given to , now. So maybe Lantus would be more suitable? Should i change from one day to another? Is it safe? And should i start with 0,5 unit? She weights about 4 kilos. (So many questions..!) .Her BG is approximately 250-350. She is on a low carb diet although she gets more food than the quantity syggested for her weight (she is so uneasy when she is hungry!). I could use your advice. Thank you!

Yes you can change over to Lantus insulin, and normally if the cat has been on another insulin we usually recommend swapping to the same dose as the previous insulin. Yes it is safe to swap to another insulin. You would wait until the next dose is due before giving the new insulin.
*** If you swap to Lantus you will need to change over to different insulin syringes. It’s very important you change over to the correct syringes when you swap to Lantus. The syringes you need for Lantus are U100 3/10ml, 30 or 31 gauge, 6 or 8 mm insulin syringes with 1/2 unit markings.
Looking at the Spreadsheet you are not getting many tests in during the pm cycles at all. It is really important that you get tests in during both the am and the pm cycles. Do you think you would be able to do that? If possible try and get some tests in during the pm cycles before the swap over to Lantus. That would be helpful to us.
Lantus works differently to Caninsulin. I would recommend you read all the yellow stickies at the top of the LLB page
LLB PAGE
She will be hungry until she is regulated…unregulated cats cannot absorb all the nutrients in the food. As long as she is not overweight, it is fine to feed her more. Are you giving her snacks throughout all the cycles?
Once you have the Lantus and the correct syringes, post here and we can have a look at the best dose to start on.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I along with others, received this PM from @Polly Pitcham and will answer it here
Goodmorning! Polly ,17 years old, was diagnosed in September 2022 and after some adventures (5 units of caninsulin at first, severe hypos, then 0,5 unit of caninsulin) she seemed to be doing quite allright with caninsulin. But after a while it was as if she was taking no insulin at all. We started increasing the dosage but she doesn't seem to respond not even to 1,5 unit that she' s given to , now. So maybe Lantus would be more suitable? Should i change from one day to another? Is it safe? And should i start with 0,5 unit? She weights about 4 kilos. (So many questions..!) .Her BG is approximately 250-350. She is on a low carb diet although she gets more food than the quantity syggested for her weight (she is so uneasy when she is hungry!). I could use your advice. Thank you!

Yes you can change over to Lantus insulin, and normally if the cat has been on another insulin we usually recommend swapping to the same dose as the previous insulin. Yes it is safe to swap to another insulin. You would wait until the next dose is due before giving the new insulin.
*** If you swap to Lantus you will need to change over to different insulin syringes. It’s very important you change over to the correct syringes when you swap to Lantus. The syringes you need for Lantus are U100 3/10ml, 30 or 31 gauge, 6 or 8 mm insulin syringes with 1/2 unit markings.
Looking at the Spreadsheet you are not getting many tests in during the pm cycles at all. It is really important that you get tests in during both the am and the pm cycles. Do you think you would be able to do that? If possible try and get some tests in during the pm cycles before the swap over to Lantus. That would be helpful to us.
Lantus works differently to Caninsulin. I would recommend you read all the yellow stickies at the top of the LLB page
LLB PAGE
She will be hungry until she is regulated…unregulated cats cannot absorb all the nutrients in the food. As long as she is not overweight, it is fine to feed her more. Are you giving her snacks throughout all the cycles?
Once you have the Lantus and the correct syringes, post here and we can have a look at the best dose to start on.
Click to expand...
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I along with others, received this PM from @Polly Pitcham and will answer it here
Goodmorning! Polly ,17 years old, was diagnosed in September 2022 and after some adventures (5 units of caninsulin at first, severe hypos, then 0,5 unit of caninsulin) she seemed to be doing quite allright with caninsulin. But after a while it was as if she was taking no insulin at all. We started increasing the dosage but she doesn't seem to respond not even to 1,5 unit that she' s given to , now. So maybe Lantus would be more suitable? Should i change from one day to another? Is it safe? And should i start with 0,5 unit? She weights about 4 kilos. (So many questions..!) .Her BG is approximately 250-350. She is on a low carb diet although she gets more food than the quantity syggested for her weight (she is so uneasy when she is hungry!). I could use your advice. Thank you!

Yes you can change over to Lantus insulin, and normally if the cat has been on another insulin we usually recommend swapping to the same dose as the previous insulin. Yes it is safe to swap to another insulin. You would wait until the next dose is due before giving the new insulin.
*** If you swap to Lantus you will need to change over to different insulin syringes. It’s very important you change over to the correct syringes when you swap to Lantus. The syringes you need for Lantus are U100 3/10ml, 30 or 31 gauge, 6 or 8 mm insulin syringes with 1/2 unit markings.
Looking at the Spreadsheet you are not getting many tests in during the pm cycles at all. It is really important that you get tests in during both the am and the pm cycles. Do you think you would be able to do that? If possible try and get some tests in during the pm cycles before the swap over to Lantus. That would be helpful to us.
Lantus works differently to Caninsulin. I would recommend you read all the yellow stickies at the top of the LLB page
LLB PAGE
She will be hungry until she is regulated…unregulated cats cannot absorb all the nutrients in the food. As long as she is not overweight, it is fine to feed her more. Are you giving her snacks throughout all the cycles?
Once you have the Lantus and the correct syringes, post here and we can have a look at the best dose to start on.
Click to expand...
Thank you! I ll try to get more tests and i ll get back to you!
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I along with others, received this PM from @Polly Pitcham and will answer it here
Goodmorning! Polly ,17 years old, was diagnosed in September 2022 and after some adventures (5 units of caninsulin at first, severe hypos, then 0,5 unit of caninsulin) she seemed to be doing quite allright with caninsulin. But after a while it was as if she was taking no insulin at all. We started increasing the dosage but she doesn't seem to respond not even to 1,5 unit that she' s given to , now. So maybe Lantus would be more suitable? Should i change from one day to another? Is it safe? And should i start with 0,5 unit? She weights about 4 kilos. (So many questions..!) .Her BG is approximately 250-350. She is on a low carb diet although she gets more food than the quantity syggested for her weight (she is so uneasy when she is hungry!). I could use your advice. Thank you!

Yes you can change over to Lantus insulin, and normally if the cat has been on another insulin we usually recommend swapping to the same dose as the previous insulin. Yes it is safe to swap to another insulin. You would wait until the next dose is due before giving the new insulin.
*** If you swap to Lantus you will need to change over to different insulin syringes. It’s very important you change over to the correct syringes when you swap to Lantus. The syringes you need for Lantus are U100 3/10ml, 30 or 31 gauge, 6 or 8 mm insulin syringes with 1/2 unit markings.
Looking at the Spreadsheet you are not getting many tests in during the pm cycles at all. It is really important that you get tests in during both the am and the pm cycles. Do you think you would be able to do that? If possible try and get some tests in during the pm cycles before the swap over to Lantus. That would be helpful to us.
Lantus works differently to Caninsulin. I would recommend you read all the yellow stickies at the top of the LLB page
LLB PAGE
She will be hungry until she is regulated…unregulated cats cannot absorb all the nutrients in the food. As long as she is not overweight, it is fine to feed her more. Are you giving her snacks throughout all the cycles?
Once you have the Lantus and the correct syringes, post here and we can have a look at the best dose to start on.
Click to expand...
I have the Lantus and the syringes. I m thinking that I should start from 0,5 unit and see how it goes.
 
Polly Pitcham said:
I have the Lantus and the syringes. I m thinking that I should start from 0,5 unit and see how it goes.
Click to expand...
I would not go back to 0.5 units if you have been giving 1.5 units of the caninsulin .
I would start at 1 unit or 1.25 units and hold the dose for 5 to 7 days to let the depot fill unless the BG drops below 90 in which case you would reduce the dose.
Test before each shot as you have been doing and then try and get a test in somewhere between +4 and +7 each cycle so we can see how low the dose is taking Polly. you can give the shot straight after feeding because the onset of the insulin is not for 2 hours. It’s not like caninsulin where the onset is very quick.
Can you draw a coloured line between the end of the caninsulin and the start of the Lantus please so we can see it clearly.
I would post each day so we can see how things are going.
I would also get a bottle of Ketostix or Keto diastix from a pharmacy and test the urine for ketones while you are finding the best dose.
 
Besides making a line on your spreadsheet above the date you started Lantus ,Put started Lantus , also on your signature you need to add Started Lantus and the date so members are aware of this :cat:
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I would not go back to 0.5 units if you have been giving 1.5 units of the caninsulin .
I would start at 1 unit or 1.25 units and hold the dose for 5 to 7 days to let the depot fill unless the BG drops below 90 in which case you would reduce the dose.
Test before each shot as you have been doing and then try and get a test in somewhere between +4 and +7 each cycle so we can see how low the dose is taking Polly. you can give the shot straight after feeding because the onset of the insulin is not for 2 hours. It’s not like caninsulin where the onset is very quick.
Can you draw a coloured line between the end of the caninsulin and the start of the Lantus please so we can see it clearly.
I would post each day so we can see how things are going.
I would also get a bottle of Ketostix or Keto diastix from a pharmacy and test the urine for ketones while you are finding the best dose.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much. It is not so easy for me to to take more tests and I worry about that, but I will try my best. Wishing that she doesn't get too low when I m away from her.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Besides making a line on your spreadsheet above the date you started Lantus ,Put started Lantus , also on your signature you need to add Started Lantus and the date so members are aware of this :cat:
Click to expand...
Thank you! I m a bit scared of how she will react but hopefully it will be all right.
 
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