1/27 Hendrick AMPS 567 +4 311 + 6 251 PMPS 525

Hi! Sorry about the highs...you'll figure this out! If you are following TR, the minimum requirements for testing are pre shot tests and at least one other test per cycle - it could be Hendrick has dipped lower and is bouncing. Sometimes a +2 or +3 can be a good insight to the rest of the cycle -

  • If the +2 is about the same as the Pre-shot, usually they're going to have a fairly "normal" cycle...slowly dropping to nadir and then slowly heading back up until the next PS
  • If it's higher than the PS, that can indicate the beginning of a bounce and those are the cycles where you can usually get by without testing as much
  • If the +2 is lower than the PS, that's your "early warning"....those are the cycles where it's important to try to get more tests in...but if you can't, you might want to leave some higher carb food down for kitty

Hope that helps a little bit - if TR doesn't work for you all right now, you can switch to SLGS (and you can always switch back...it's just not advised to mix :)).

FWIW, I saw that @FrostD advised not to get the +2/+3 test yesterday but I don't personally agree...IMHO, I'd always try to get it and then use the guidance above to determine if you need further testing. Cats have swung from highs to lows here - sweet Oliver is one that comes to mind - here's his 2021 SS - some days he tried to get every single color o_O

Perhaps someone with even more experience can stop by to offer any other guidance like @Wendy&Neko or @tiffmaxee
 
JaxBenji said:
Hi! Sorry about the highs...you'll figure this out! If you are following TR, the minimum requirements for testing are pre shot tests and at least one other test per cycle - it could be Hendrick has dipped lower and is bouncing. Sometimes a +2 or +3 can be a good insight to the rest of the cycle -

  • If the +2 is about the same as the Pre-shot, usually they're going to have a fairly "normal" cycle...slowly dropping to nadir and then slowly heading back up until the next PS
  • If it's higher than the PS, that can indicate the beginning of a bounce and those are the cycles where you can usually get by without testing as much
  • If the +2 is lower than the PS, that's your "early warning"....those are the cycles where it's important to try to get more tests in...but if you can't, you might want to leave some higher carb food down for kitty

Hope that helps a little bit - if TR doesn't work for you all right now, you can switch to SLGS (and you can always switch back...it's just not advised to mix :)).

FWIW, I saw that @FrostD advised not to get the +2/+3 test yesterday but I don't personally agree...IMHO, I'd always try to get it and then use the guidance above to determine if you need further testing. Cats have swung from highs to lows here - sweet Oliver is one that comes to mind - here's his 2021 SS - some days he tried to get every single color o_O

Perhaps someone with even more experience can stop by to offer any other guidance like @Wendy&Neko or @tiffmaxee
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that was yesterday, where we gave him a break and only did AMPS and PMPS. Today, I am going to attempt a solo +4 and +6. +4 is....well, right now. Here we go

Thanks for the response! Much appreciated


{edit} wow that went so easy, holy cow. +4 came in at 311
 
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With TR you really need at least two tests per cycle. You need some mid cycle tests to catch the nadir as well. I’d always get a +2-3. I agree with all that Susanne said. If you were testing more regularly it would not make sense to do a curve on a bounce clearing cycle or on a bounce. There is not yet enough data to know what’s going on with him. I think I recall testing being very difficult right now. Until it’s possible to test as much as needed it would be better to follow SLGS. Once you can get sufficient data TR would get the bg down faster.

I didn’t test at first. Instead I went to my vet a few times a week for a mid cycle test. We got a 60 and my vet felt he might be in remission so stopped insulin. Big mistake. A few weeks later he was back on it. My vet knew what he was doing but because I wasn’t testing felt it wasn’t safe. I became a testaholic. I was afraid Max would hide from me all the time but it wasn’t the case.
 
tiffmaxee said:
With TR you really need at least two tests per cycle. You need some mid cycle tests to catch the nadir as well. I’d always get a +2-3. I agree with all that Susanne said. If you were testing more regularly it would not make sense to do a curve on a bounce clearing cycle or on a bounce. There is not yet enough data to know what’s going on with him. I think I recall testing being very difficult right now. Until it’s possible to test as much as needed it would be better to follow SLGS. Once you can get sufficient data TR would get the bg down faster.

I didn’t test at first. Instead I went to my vet a few times a week for a mid cycle test. We got a 60 and my vet felt he might be in remission so stopped insulin. Big mistake. A few weeks later he was back on it. My vet knew what he was doing but because I wasn’t testing felt it wasn’t safe. I became a testaholic. I was afraid Max would hide from me all the time but it wasn’t the case.
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Testing was indeed being very challenging for us but we are getting the hang of it this week: four BG tests on Monday (AMPS, PMPS, AM + 2 and PM +3, Then on Tuesday another 4 tests, gave his ears a break yesterday and only did AMPS and PMPS.

Today right back at it, two tests done already, two more to go at minimum. AMPS, +4, +6 and PMPS

I think we are good to stay on TR with this.
 
Hendrick's mom and dad said:
Testing was indeed being very challenging for us but we are getting the hang of it this week: four BG tests on Monday (AMPS, PMPS, AM + 2 and PM +3, Then on Tuesday another 4 tests, gave his ears a break yesterday and only did AMPS and PMPS.

Today right back at it, two tests done already, two more to go at minimum. AMPS, +4, +6 and PMPS

I think we are good to stay on TR with this.
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Wonderful! You won’t need to do a full curve often if ever as long as we time the tests right and catch the lows (nadirs). As for giving the wars a break with TR you still need two tests. We dint know when he might clear a bounce yet.
 
The minimum is amps/pmps and one more test. You did that. The +2-3 let’s you know if it might be an active cycle. If it’s a lot lower than the amps/pmps then it’s a good idea to get a 3rd or even 4th test in that cycle if at all possible. We need to know how low a dose is taking him for dosing purposes. He’s come down quite a bit at +4. He will likely come down more. Can you get a +6-7?
 
tiffmaxee said:
The minimum is amps/pmps and one more test. You did that. The +2-3 let’s you know if it might be an active cycle. If it’s a lot lower than the amps/pmps then it’s a good idea to get a 3rd or even 4th test in that cycle if at all possible. We need to know how low a dose is taking him for dosing purposes. He’s come down quite a bit at +4. He will likely come down more. Can you get a +6-7?
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will attempt a solo +6 here in about 20 min

frankly I'm dreading it, the last two pokes went as well as one could possibly imagine so... I am due for a nightmare type session.
 
Hendrick's mom and dad said:
wait what? two posts ago you asked me to get a +6 or a +7




...and @FrostD said to get a +6 today so we could find the nadir

man I am so lost sometimes with this. Got a 251, so you were dead on with your prediction

is his nadir at +5 then? maybe?
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Elise was just saying if it's a struggle to get the +6-7 it will be ok not too. Yes ideally you want to get it so you can figure out where nadir is so if you can get it without a fight and too much stress definitely do it. But by the numbers if you couldnt have gotten it it wasnt detrimental as he isnt coming to low to be worried.

It is a lot to take in one step at a time:bighug: you're doing great!
 
Rainbow Conti said:
Elise was just saying if it's a struggle to get the +6-7 it will be ok not too. Yes ideally you want to get it so you can figure out where nadir is so if you can get it without a fight and too much stress definitely do it. But by the numbers if you couldnt have gotten it it wasnt detrimental as he isnt coming to low to be worried.

It is a lot to take in one step at a time:bighug: you're doing great!
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Exactly. Thank you for catching this.
 
Hendrick's mom and dad said:
so do I need one more in a few hours to make sure he's going back up now and nail the nadir at +5 you think? Or as we are almost at +7, is it a given that he is on the way back up
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It’s never a given that it’s the nadir. If you want to see get the extra test. Again if it’s a fight it’s not necessary as he’s not going to be too low that’s he’s in danger. Nice to see the yellow. Sorry if I confused you but you sounded like you felt there might be a fight as was explained above.
 
tiffmaxee said:
It’s never a given that it’s the nadir. If you want to see get the extra test. Again if it’s a fight it’s not necessary as he’s not going to be too low that’s he’s in danger. Nice to see the yellow. Sorry if I confused you but you sounded like you felt there might be a fight as was explained above.
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no worries, my bad I just missunderstood your post. Text-based communication can be hard sometimes and easily misinterpreted. Thank you so much for your help.

.....no he's not a fighter at all, he's a lover. Just such a sweet and mild-mannered cat, not a mean bone in his body. It's not about the fight, I just don't want to torture him
 
Hendrick's mom and dad said:
I really don't want to jab him again today until PMPS if it's not critically important. He was pretty sad with the last one
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You can safely not do another test. He really isnt in any danger at this point. Moving forward as he continues to get better numbers you will need to make sure he is indeed coming back to be safe. In the beginning when everyone is learning and numbers are still so high it's ok to not test as much. But it's still important to get AMPS pmps and at least 1 more in each cycle.
 
Hendrick's mom and dad said:
no worries, my bad I just missunderstood your post. Text-based comes can be hard sometimes and easily misinterpreted. Thank you so much for your help.

.....no he's not a fighter at all, he's a lover. Just such a sweet and mild-mannered cat, not a mean bone in his body. It's not about the fight, I just don't want to torture him
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LM is the same way...his ears will toughen up as time goes on. But all of need a break sometimes. It can be emotionally draining
 
Something to keep in mind is that nadirs can, and do move around. What is this cycle's nadir may not be the nadir tonight, and so on. My favourite saying from Sienne about her Gabby is that Gabby's nadirs were usually around +3, except when it wasn't. :)

That said, sometimes getting a test a little later in the cycle like a +8 or +9 or a +10 may help you to get a feel for duration (the length of time the insulin continues to lower blood glucose). Spot checks now and again where you don't usually test are a good way to fill in some of the missing pieces, especially when you are new and just starting to collect data and getting a feel for how the insulin is working for your cat.
 
Christie & Maverick said:
Something to keep in mind is that nadirs can, and do move around. What is this cycle's nadir may not be the nadir tonight, and so on. My favourite saying from Sienne about her Gabby is that Gabby's nadirs were usually around +3, except when it wasn't. :)

That said, sometimes getting a test a little later in the cycle like a +8 or +9 or a +10 may help you to get a feel for duration (the length of time the insulin continues to lower blood glucose). Spot checks now and again where you don't usually test are a good way to fill in some of the missing pieces, especially when you are new and just starting to collect data and getting a feel for how the insulin is working for your cat.
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I did not know that the nadir can move around. Thanks for the explanation and tips, I may bag the +8 today and instead do a +5 and a +7 tomorrow, or Saturday.
 
You are welcome! As for the testing troubles, a couple of things you might want to try (not sure if it has been mentioned to you before). If you are already a bit wound up anticipating a tough time, some people find humming or singing helps to relax you, which carries over to the cat. I know it sounds silly, but if you are wound up about the testing, the cat feels it. You could also try approaching, acting like you will test, ie. touch ears, pet cat, then just give Hendrick a treat and walk away. It does get easier over time, I have seen so many people here in the beginning struggle with testing, only to become experts in due course. So hang in there.
 
With testing I've found that treats work...a treat, pardon the pun.

Not with every test, but pretty regularly before 9r after a test I give Whiskey (and George, LOL, because he has to put up with a scary diabetic lady) an Orijen freeze dried treat.

Now she knows that when the vampires come, often the yummies come too.

Lately I've been testing a LOT because she slipped under 50, so the Orijen treat stock has gone right down!
 
thank you both @stannarp and @Christie & Maverick

that is something I had not thought about, the cat sensing my anxiety. Very good point, and yeah I have been speaking and humming to him in my low everything is ok voice and giving treats. Treats are helping, he is starting to get the idea. Man does he love those Halo Liv-a-Littles and Whole Life treats! He knows the Halo jar now, so I am just refilling it with Whole Life One Ingredient freeze dried chicken breast treats as he seems to love them just as much as the Liv-A-Littles and honestly they do seem identical

he is currently cuddled up with his brother Shylo on the bed in our bedroom, both so happy...I don't know if I can stomach a +8
 
Hendrick's mom and dad said:
thank you both @stannarp and @Christie & Maverick

that is something I had not thought about, the cat sensing my anxiety. Very good point, and yeah I have been speaking and humming to him in my low everything is ok voice and giving treats. Treats are helping, he is starting to get the idea. Man does he love those Halo Liv-a-Littles and Whole Life treats! He knows the Halo jar now, so I am just refilling it with Whole Life One Ingredient freeze dried chicken breast treats as he seems to love them just as much as the Liv-A-Littles and honestly they do seem identical

he is currently cuddled up with his brother Shylo on the bed in our bedroom, both so happy...I don't know if I can stomach a +8
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Usually she's really good about tests, but sometimes (like tonight) they don't work so well.

I also sometimes sing... 'it's Whisk testing time in the valley', LOL. Usually she recognizes it and sits patiently for her test.

Very occasionally, or when the ears are bothering her, not so much :D
 
Lots of good advice here

For the record, and I should have made this clear last night - I only said to skip the +2/+3 because you all needed a break. Like everyone else mentioned, it's always a good idea to get that test every cycle when you can.
 
FrostD said:
Lots of good advice here

For the record, and I should have made this clear last night - I only said to skip the +2/+3 because you all needed a break. Like everyone else mentioned, it's always a good idea to get that test every cycle when you can.
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you didn't even go as far as saying to skip, you just gave your tacit approval ha

you did say we should find the nadir with a +4 and a +6, what do you think?

tomorrow or Saturday I'm thinking of doing a +5 and a +7
 
Hendrick's mom and dad said:
you didn't even go as far as saying to skip, you just gave your tacit approval ha

you did say we should find the nadir with a +4 and a +6, what do you think?

tomorrow or Saturday I'm thinking of doing a +5 and a +7
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Today is a bounce break, I'm sure somebody probably mentioned up there that these cycles can have later nadirs and a long slide down. If you can get a +8 today that will tell us a lot about his bounce breaks. But like others said, he's not in danger of going too low, so a break would also be fine.

A +5 and +7 tomorrow will help round out the picture, and also give us insight to non-bounce-break cycles. Guessing he'll bounce again though, sometimes they just stay high and flat when that happens.

Like Christie said nadir is never a given, but more often than not it's within an hour or so either way (did Sienne pop in yet saying "Gabby's nadir was something like +6, except when it wasn't"?). But the more data you have, the better we can be with our recommendations - especially when he gets into lower numbers.
 
ah ok thanks @FrostD

+8 has come and went and I let him be. In-between the vet diagnosis of diabetes, but before we got him on Lantus and he was so sick and got hospitalized for DKA/mild pancreatitis, he and his brother stopped cuddling, grooming, etc. In fact, they only just started acting normal around each other these past few days. Great to see them sleeping together and grooming each other again. They were a litter of just two kittens, the last litter that mama cat ever had actually as she stopped being fertile after that.

I couldn't bear to disturb them:
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Hendrick's mom and dad said:
ah ok thanks @FrostD

+8 has come and went and I let him be. In-between the vet diagnosis of diabetes, but before we got him on Lantus and he was so sick and got hospitalized for DKA/mild pancreatitis, he and his brother stopped cuddling, grooming, etc. In fact, they only just started acting normal around each other these past few days. Great to see them sleeping together and grooming each other again. They were a litter of just two kittens, the last litter that mama cat ever had actually as she stopped being fertile after that.

I couldn't bear to disturb them:
View attachment 63411
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Adorable! I wouldn't have either
 
Hendrick's mom and dad said:
ah ok thanks @FrostD

+8 has come and went and I let him be. In-between the vet diagnosis of diabetes, but before we got him on Lantus and he was so sick and got hospitalized for DKA/mild pancreatitis, he and his brother stopped cuddling, grooming, etc. In fact, they only just started acting normal around each other these past few days. Great to see them sleeping together and grooming each other again. They were a litter of just two kittens, the last litter that mama cat ever had actually as she stopped being fertile after that.

I couldn't bear to disturb them:
View attachment 63411
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Such beautiful kitties!

I have my partner testing during the day while I work. He gets +3, +6, and +9. I do the other tests. Ruby is so accustomed to this routine that she comes around to remind us that it's test time. It's not that she likes the pokes, but she craves routine and ritual. I never knew this about cats until diabetes came into our lives and we became regimented. I used to come home at all hours of the day and throw kibble into my cats bowls. I never realized how much this upset them. I thought they would meow at me because they were hungry but it was mostly because I didn't come home at my usual time and we were off our usual routine.

If during our testing schedule we get the nadir, we're happy. We don't test as much at night anymore because we are both tired and need sleep for our jobs and Ruby is pretty predictable for us these days, but we try our best to keep to our daytime schedule of testing so we know how to manage insulin dosing.

Learning how to relax myself enough to do the test was a real challenge at the beginning. I sang "You are my sunshine" to Ruby as I was doing it, and even found a great version sung by Johnny Cash to play and sing along to while I did it. Ruby seemed to like it too. :)
 
Katherine&Ruby said:
Such beautiful kitties!

I have my partner testing during the day while I work. He gets +3, +6, and +9. I do the other tests. Ruby is so accustomed to this routine that she comes around to remind us that it's test time. It's not that she likes the pokes, but she craves routine and ritual. I never knew this about cats until diabetes came into our lives and we became regimented. I used to come home at all hours of the day and throw kibble into my cats bowls. I never realized how much this upset them. I thought they would meow at me because they were hungry but it was mostly because I didn't come home at my usual time and we were off our usual routine.

If during our testing schedule we get the nadir, we're happy. We don't test as much at night anymore because we are both tired and need sleep for our jobs and Ruby is pretty predictable for us these days, but we try our best to keep to our daytime schedule of testing so we know how to manage insulin dosing.

Learning how to relax myself enough to do the test was a real challenge at the beginning. I sang "You are my sunshine" to Ruby as I was doing it, and even found a great version sung by Johnny Cash to play and sing along to while I did it. Ruby seemed to like it too. :)
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It is true that even though we really only got our testing legs under us this week, Hendrick already seems to be learning the routine and yesterday at PMPS time he went to the spot before we even were quite ready. Members here with their tips tricks and help have been invaluable with this whole deal. Picking a spot for the BG tests and sticking with it is a big one I think, and of course -- THE TREATSIES

He sure loves those Liv-A-Littles and Whole Life bites :)
 
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