Iris Deary
Member
Been doing 2 U since 3/9/2019. Was on Novalin before. He has been wanting to eat more and drinking more water again.
? Dosing advice-increase, decrease? Billy Gray Lee 3/27/2019
- Thread starter Iris Deary
- Start date
Lisa and little
Very Active Member
I can’t seem to open your SS. Maybe someone else can advise ? Perhaps it’s a setting?
Rachel
Very Active Member
I was able to open it. Lisa, can you see it now?
Looks like Billy Gray Lee is staying pretty high...and you've been on 2 units for awhile. You do a great job getting some mid cycle tests and tells us that he isn't getting into nice blue and green numbers during the day. I'd go ahead and increase to 2.25 units as soon as you can...maybe during a day cycle so you can monitor? I think he just needs some more insulin right now.
Are you testing for ketones?
Looks like Billy Gray Lee is staying pretty high...and you've been on 2 units for awhile. You do a great job getting some mid cycle tests and tells us that he isn't getting into nice blue and green numbers during the day. I'd go ahead and increase to 2.25 units as soon as you can...maybe during a day cycle so you can monitor? I think he just needs some more insulin right now.
Are you testing for ketones?
Lisa and little
Very Active Member
I was able to open it. Lisa, can you see it now?
Nope. Can see it but it’s all Whacky. Hmmm well at least you can help!!
Nope. Can see it but it’s all Whacky. Hmmm well at least you can help!!
Iris Deary
Member
Yes, I have not in several days but will again. He was fine then. I increased insulin to 2.25 this morning. THANK YOU so very, very much. My nerves are not doing very well for the past few weeks. And it seems any thing, small or large just is too much for me now. And I can't get any time off.... Thank you again.
Lisa and little
Very Active Member
We have all been there. I’ve cried, had the shakes and panic attack’s. You are doing great and Billy Gray is very lucky to have you as a mama. Most of that panic and anxiety comes from thinking you can figure this out quick and trying to make sense of the numbers. Both are not the case. Keep monitoring as much as you can , ask for help when needed even if only to vent but most of all take care of yourself. I know it’s tough with work and life but you can only do what you can do. Once I gave up trying to figure it all out, I was able to relax a bit and I think our kitty’s can sense that. Deep breaths. We are all here for you. Big hugs coming your way
Iris Deary
Member
We have all been there. I’ve cried, had the shakes and panic attack’s. You are doing great and Billy Gray is very lucky to have you as a mama. Most of that panic and anxiety comes from thinking you can figure this out quick and trying to make sense of the numbers. Both are not the case. Keep monitoring as much as you can , ask for help when needed even if only to vent but most of all take care of yourself. I know it’s tough with work and life but you can only do what you can do. Once I gave up trying to figure it all out, I was able to relax a bit and I think our kitty’s can sense that. Deep breaths. We are all here for you. Big hugs coming your way
Thank you all so very, very much. I have had to be outside working for several days. Water over past winter and continued rain flooded my pasture field. I had to learn how to operate a tractor with bucket and scraper blade. And get an excavator to ditch. Costly... Stress comes in bunches like bananas. Lee's numbers fluctuate like crazy. Every once in a while he steals food from either me or the other kitties. I try to keep them separated but he learned to open the door... He is a little thief. Don't put your lunch down or he is carrying it off, in the container, like a big dog. So funny and so frustrating. And he knows how to open a styrofoam container right where the chicken is. Nice neat cut hole in a square. I'd swear he sharpens one claw to just cut with... He is a big cat. He weighs probably 16 pounds but has a laid back personality and is a gentleman. So awful someone would throw him out.. I'm sorry, I am rambling. But I am wondering how long must I keep records at least 4 times a day? Sometimes I'm a quarter mile away when it is feed and check time. I'm adjusting some but I have 2 old horses and 6 other cats, 3 of which aren't mine either. Town is 15 minutes away and I only go every two weeks but I never stop. And I'm no Spring chicken..
Djamila
Very Active Member
I only have a super quick second, so I'll do my best to hit the big questions:
1. Keeping him away from the no-no foods is suuuuuuuper important. And yes, cats are incredible little thieves! But some of the bouncing around is because of sneaking food, so if you want to get him into better numbers, it's essential. Any chance you can get the other cats all on the same food? (and if you've already answered this, please forgive me -- I have a terrible memory!)
2. You could get away with just one test in the middle of the cycle, but you really need to be doing one test at night as well. The PM cycle is often quite different than the AM cycle. So what I would do is drop one of the AM mid-cycle tests, and start doing a PM mid-cycle test. We usually call it a "before bed" test since you want it to be the last thing you do before you turn out the lights so that it's as late into the PM cycle as you can make it. Sleep is important, so most of us can't wake up during the night to test very often, but if you can even get to +3 at night, it can be helpful to get a sense of the BG activity during the night. Since one cycle impacts the next, seeing what's happening at night can also help figure out the daytime inconsistencies. So it still works out to four tests a day, but it saves you having to come back to the house more than once during the day -- sounds like you've been hard at work lately!
1. Keeping him away from the no-no foods is suuuuuuuper important. And yes, cats are incredible little thieves! But some of the bouncing around is because of sneaking food, so if you want to get him into better numbers, it's essential. Any chance you can get the other cats all on the same food? (and if you've already answered this, please forgive me -- I have a terrible memory!)
2. You could get away with just one test in the middle of the cycle, but you really need to be doing one test at night as well. The PM cycle is often quite different than the AM cycle. So what I would do is drop one of the AM mid-cycle tests, and start doing a PM mid-cycle test. We usually call it a "before bed" test since you want it to be the last thing you do before you turn out the lights so that it's as late into the PM cycle as you can make it. Sleep is important, so most of us can't wake up during the night to test very often, but if you can even get to +3 at night, it can be helpful to get a sense of the BG activity during the night. Since one cycle impacts the next, seeing what's happening at night can also help figure out the daytime inconsistencies. So it still works out to four tests a day, but it saves you having to come back to the house more than once during the day -- sounds like you've been hard at work lately!
Iris Deary
Member
Yes, all hard. He very seldom sneaks food but when he does he does it well. Levels are usually 400 plus when he does that but like i said it is not often. I keep others food put up when I let him in house. He has his own condo on indoor back porch. He likes to socialize and I hate to keep him by himself. I can give it a try at night. If aches and pains keep me awake I can use that time constructively. I wish I could get all on same food, but there are 7 and 3 are outside kitties. I can't afford ones I have. The indoor kitties share one can of food twice a day so Lee can have his 4 cans a day. They have dry otherwise and seem fine with it. I order from Chewy and Amazon through Ebates to try and keep as inexpensive as possible.
Iris Deary
Member
We have all been there. I’ve cried, had the shakes and panic attack’s. You are doing great and Billy Gray is very lucky to have you as a mama. Most of that panic and anxiety comes from thinking you can figure this out quick and trying to make sense of the numbers. Both are not the case. Keep monitoring as much as you can , ask for help when needed even if only to vent but most of all take care of yourself. I know it’s tough with work and life but you can only do what you can do. Once I gave up trying to figure it all out, I was able to relax a bit and I think our kitty’s can sense that. Deep breaths. We are all here for you. Big hugs coming your way
Thank you. I had to go up on depression medicine.. I was having anxiety attacks when my 29 year old mare quit eating last month plus taking care of Lee at least 4 times a day and the other 5 kitties.
Iris Deary
Member
Oh btw I had to go up to 2.5 units. The syringes do not have graduation marks.
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
Taking care of animals is hard and you obviously have your hands full!
Your kitty is bouncing quite a bit but you've had a couple of nice dark greens on 2.5 u. It's hard to know if this dose is OK for now or if the occasional high carb contraband is affecting his BG. Some cats are much more carb sensitive than others. How about this?
- keep 2.5 u for another couple of cycles and aim to get 1 or 5 daytime middle range tests as well as at least one before bed test nightly
- if he continues to run high, try increasing to 2.75 u if you can monitor a bit more closely one day
- continue these every 2 - 3 day 0.25 u increases until he's showing more blues on his spreadsheet, then slow the rate of increase
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you using U40 syringes made for ProZinc? It's possible to use U100 syringes (with half unit marks) to give ProZinc but you need this conversion chart to do it: http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm This method allows dose changes of 0.2 u (read from marks) or as small as 0.1 u eyeballed between the lines.
You're feeling a lot of stress treating your kitty and doing everything else you have to do. I can't imagine doing everything you describe. Getting as on top of Billy's FD treatment as much as you can (and we're here to help with that) will go a long way toward making you more comfortable with that part of it. It'll require a bit more testing occasionally, fierce guarding of high carb food so he can't get it and dosing a bit more aggressively as needed. We're here to help so post as often as you need. Venting is OK too!
Iris Deary
Member
Taking care of animals is hard and you obviously have your hands full!
Your kitty is bouncing quite a bit but you've had a couple of nice dark greens on 2.5 u. It's hard to know if this dose is OK for now or if the occasional high carb contraband is affecting his BG. Some cats are much more carb sensitive than others. How about this?
- keep 2.5 u for another couple of cycles and aim to get 1 or 5 daytime middle range tests as well as at least one before bed test nightly
- if he continues to run high, try increasing to 2.75 u if you can monitor a bit more closely one day
- continue these every 2 - 3 day 0.25 u increases until he's showing more blues on his spreadsheet, then slow the rate of increase
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you using U40 syringes made for ProZinc? It's possible to use U100 syringes (with half unit marks) to give ProZinc but you need this conversion chart to do it: http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm This method allows dose changes of 0.2 u (read from marks) or as small as 0.1 u eyeballed between the lines.
You're feeling a lot of stress treating your kitty and doing everything else you have to do. I can't imagine doing everything you describe. Getting as on top of Billy's FD treatment as much as you can (and we're here to help with that) will go a long way toward making you more comfortable with that part of it. It'll require a bit more testing occasionally, fierce guarding of high carb food so he can't get it and dosing a bit more aggressively as needed. We're here to help so post as often as you need. Venting is OK too!
Thank you all so much. I was doing better but I have a mare who is 29 who is going down hill fast. Losing weight and is crippled. It is costing a fortune and I do really mean that plus I let her out in the field she loves so much and she's been hiding and wanting to stay out at night. So here I go walking with bad knees and back and hunting until 10PM or later then walking the quarter mile back. I'm not resting and getting very anxious again. I have my phone set to alarm every 4 hours to come in and check Lee and feed him but it is hard to get back on time. I will try to get more tests in per day on the days I am home.
He is a little Houdini. He'll even take my lunch.. One learns not to go to the bathroom.. I don't know how he got in last time but both he and Buddy were on porch for a couple of hours and then here they were in house. I did have someone here working but I just don't know. I know I suspect he has found their throw-up of dry food...yuck..With all these cats I am lost sometimes. 7 is too many. I let Lee out the other day and watched him. He loves it and he stayed close for a bit then took off to neighbors house. So that is out. My other three indoor ones do not like his pate and he doesn't either so he heads for theirs..I always put theirs up in refrigerator if the porch door has to be opened for long or if he wants in. Then I forget and Buddy is digging at the refrigerator door to get something to eat. I am usually flexible but I am slipping. I have two more of the neighbors cats who live here in my garage and I have to keep up their shots and the other one in the barn as well.Plus there is another that is transient from the deceased neighbor's. I am trying to find homes for some but I love them all..
The reason I am saying all this is I have been put on more Cymbalta and Ativan and muscle relaxers because of hypertonic muscles and stress. I have no one to vent to because they all but one say "get rid of them"........instead of offering help. Except one friend who is in her 70's and understands the work and cost. She has brought food and money for insulin before I found you all. I am thankful for the Prozinc supplied. I would be struggling to buy even the Novalin I was getting him.
Sorry for the rant....to answer the question yes, I use U-40 syringes. The last have no 1/2 marks. I am trying to find more but truthfully I would prefer the U-100s with short needles. I have read the conversion chart and need to ask how much I would increase insulin daily if I use those. His testing results have bounced ever since the deceased neighbor's housekeeper found him last fall and I took him to vet. His sugar was 656 then. Then the finder would not have anything else to do with him after that..... He only weighed 7 lbs then and vet said he probably had originally weighed 14 at least. He is probably 16 lbs. now. And what did you mean by cycles?
My computer lost the chart again when the power went down and I had to try to find original note to recover it. I cannot save it like the regular files for some reason. I had several days to enter then. Is there anyway to save the chart so it's easier to keep track of???????
Iris Deary
Member
We have all been there. I’ve cried, had the shakes and panic attack’s. You are doing great and Billy Gray is very lucky to have you as a mama. Most of that panic and anxiety comes from thinking you can figure this out quick and trying to make sense of the numbers. Both are not the case. Keep monitoring as much as you can , ask for help when needed even if only to vent but most of all take care of yourself. I know it’s tough with work and life but you can only do what you can do. Once I gave up trying to figure it all out, I was able to relax a bit and I think our kitty’s can sense that. Deep breaths. We are all here for you. Big hugs coming your way
I just want to say "thank you" for saying this.
Djamila
Very Active Member
If you have a WalMart near you, they sell the u100s with half-unit marks and shorter needles. Or you can order them online. WalMart is probably the best price though. If you use u100's, you can most easily do increases by 0.2u, although it's possible to do even 0.1u if you draw a dose in between the little lines. You would still hold any increase for a few cycles before adding more to give them time to adjust.
It certainly does sound like you have your hands full!
As far as easier access to the spreadsheet, do you know what browser you are using? The most common browsers are Internet Explorer, Mozilla Firefox, or Google Chrome. If you can tell me which one you're using, I can make a little video to show you how to bookmark it and make it easier to find.
It looks like despite everything else you have going on, you're still doing a great job keeping up on his testing!
It certainly does sound like you have your hands full!
As far as easier access to the spreadsheet, do you know what browser you are using? The most common browsers are Internet Explorer, Mozilla Firefox, or Google Chrome. If you can tell me which one you're using, I can make a little video to show you how to bookmark it and make it easier to find.
It looks like despite everything else you have going on, you're still doing a great job keeping up on his testing!
Iris Deary
Member
I got the syringes yesterday evening when I went for horsefeed, etc. Thank you so much.
Iris Deary
Member
I had to sit a while, did not go to church, and figured out how to save the chart on the bookmark bar. I don't have to do this stuff like I used to, thankfully, and I am rusty. Thank you for the help.
BTW, picture is recent of Lee.
Iris Deary
Member
I am not doing as well as I would like even, if I could stay awake at night more, but thank you. I'm trying but I'm afraid my body is giving out.
Thank you..
Djamila
Very Active Member
You need to be sleeping. Think of it like the oxygen mask on an airplane - they always tell you to put on your own mask before you help anyone else. Same rule applies here - if you fall apart, then you won't be able to help your kitties. So you have to take care of yourself. If you wake up during the night and can grab a test great. And getting a test right before you go to sleep can be helpful too. But staying awake at night and exhausting yourself isn't going to help you or your kitties.
Rachel
Very Active Member
Iris, you really do need to take care of yourself. I know how hard that is (I've been there!) but you can't take care of all your animals if you aren't well. Yes, testing is important, but so are YOU. I'm going to prescribe one night of uninterrupted sleep for you...you need AND deserve it! If you could take a night and just do something fun...watch a movie, drink a glass of wine, take a relaxing bubble bath, and then go to bed and have a good, long sleep, I think it will make a huge difference for you.
Here's a little something I like to read when I'm stressed out: Dear Mom. See if it gives you a smile!
Here's a little something I like to read when I'm stressed out: Dear Mom. See if it gives you a smile!
Iris Deary
Member
BTW I put "Dear Mom" on the fridge.......... 
Iris Deary
Member
Well, here I am again.......... Lee's sugar has been down all day and was just 216 at 9:07PM. I was afraid to give him the usual dose at that time and have waited a while. I'm used to his sugar being in the 300's at night. And I can't stay up all night worrying. In those cases, what should I do??
Iris Deary
Member
Thank you! I waited an hour before giving him the dose yesterday morning. Last night I waited until after 10 to give him just a bit lower dose. He usually does not run low. THAT makes me nervous...with the increased dosage I have been giving him.
Iris Deary
Member
Okay, I am aggravating again. Lee's sugar was 67 at 9 and 112 at 10:38A this morning. I don't know whether to give standard dose or not. This is uncharted territory for me....
Iris Deary
Member
also am i posting this correctly? can it be seen by everyone?
Djamila
Very Active Member
Hi there. Sorry no one was around earlier today. You made the right decision to skip the shot this morning. Giving the late shot though is going to mess up your schedule tonight since it hasn't worn off enough to give the PM shot yet. You may just need to skip tonight and start back up in the morning.
I would also recommend reducing the dose in the morning since it looks like he most likely dipped into the lime green numbers overnight. Try 6.25 tomorrow and let's see how he does on that.
I would also recommend reducing the dose in the morning since it looks like he most likely dipped into the lime green numbers overnight. Try 6.25 tomorrow and let's see how he does on that.
Iris Deary
Member
I have not been on here in months. I have just been surviving with my head above water. Sick cats, sick horse for 4 years that had a stroke in Sept., sick me, sick friends, estranged spouse in hospital. I just got one kitty from vet yesterday for badly needed dental. $354. This is just a bit of what's going on. Gray Lee had mouth ulcers. His hard palate was red. The original vet did a dental and pulled several teeth and tested for FIV. Test came back negative but vet said isolation for poor Lee as I call him. That is very difficult. Very. Ever since he had the dental his BG has been all over the charts. Rounds of Clavamox and uping insulin. Nothing seems to work. I had a round of something all summer with extreme fatigue. Turns out I have recurrent or chronic Epstein Barr, too. Drs. here and Drs. there and I've not been able to keep Lee's values checked during the day. I have tried recently and have gone to appointments and driven back home to check BG and driven to another appt. Vet set his latest dose at 4 U-40 units. I use U 100 needles and that makes me supposed to up his dose by 3-4 units. ++++The main reason I go through all this is I'm about to totally lose it. I MEAN this. I also have Crohn's. This stress can literally kill me but I am worried about Lee's mouth. Where his canine teeth were there is an ulcer on his lip. I am giving him Clavamox and I bought a mouth antimicrobial Oratene for his mouth and one for his water recently. He will clear up and then get bad again. I think I need to change vets..but what I am asking here is what should I do. Up insulin again? When I did his BG went higher. When I went down on it - it went higher. Is it just the ulcers he's being treated for? I have let him out recently in the yard and stayed with him,. He's so active and loves to be out. He plays and runs and deserves so much more than I've been able to give him for months. I've literally begged people to help. I don't know how you guys who have no family and live isolated do it. Any advice is appreciated. Thank you.
Deb & Wink
Very Active Member
First of all Iris, some big hugs for you. If I lived anywhere near you, I'd come lend a hand.
You are dealing with a lot right now, and it's never easy to deal with your own health issues and take care of sick animals at the same time. The stress levels you are feeling must be incredible. Let's see if we can reduce that stress a bit.
Do you still have a copy of the "Dear Mom" post on your fridge?
I'm only going to look at the last couple of weeks. I will be stating the dose in U40 units first, then in parentheses will put the U100 measurement, that shows how much insulin you draw up into the U100 syringe.
On 2/19/2020, when Lee got that BG of 80 at +6, that was a dose reduction. You should have gone down that evening from 4U to 3.75U. (8U to 7.5U). You delayed the reduction for 3 cycles, but not sure why.
On 2/22/2020, when Lee got that BG of 77 at +7, that was another dose reduction. You should have gone down from 3.75U to 3.5U (7.5U to 7U) Again, you delayed the reduction for 3 cycles. Not sure why.
I also urge you to get a few tests in the PM cycle. At least 1 before you go to bed. Many cats blood glucose levels drop lower at night, because they are more active then and burning off energy. That energy is in the form of glucose, so their glucose levels drop lower.
Saw the big jump in dose on 4/28/2019 and wondered why. That is when you switched to using U100 syringes with this U40 Prozinc insulin. The dose you record on the SS is usually the U40 dose, not what you actually drew up in the U100 syringe. But I see that Djamila and Rachel were giving you dosing information according to the U100 syringes you were using. That's unusual. At first, I thought Billy Gray Lee was a high dose kitty with IAA or acromegaly, but I see that is not the case. Water under the bridge. Let's move forward from this point, and keep using what you are used to.
The Oratene contains sorbitol which is a form of sugar. You might want to stop using that and see how the BG levels respond.
You might want to consider eliminating the Dr Elseys Clean Protein dry food and only feed the canned foods. Some cats do ok on that food, other cats have higher blood glucose when they are eating it. The chicken flavor is lower in carbs, but the salmon flavor is too high in carbs for a diabetic cat.
What canned foods is Lee eating right now? Brand, style, flavor would be helpful to know.
How long ago was Lee's dental?
Are the mouth ulcers still there?
Are they rodent ulcers?
Then, stress relief activities. Mindfulness breathing, yoga, stretching exercises, connect with nature, watch something goofy on tv, take a break and eat a piece of chocolate or cook a fun meal.
p.s Djamila isn't posting on the message board anymore. Taking care of some of her own family right now. Rachel is not here either right now. Don't know why, but she left in July 2019. Neither of them have been on in many, many months.
If I lived anywhere near you, I'd come lend a hand.You are dealing with a lot right now, and it's never easy to deal with your own health issues and take care of sick animals at the same time. The stress levels you are feeling must be incredible. Let's see if we can reduce that stress a bit.
Do you still have a copy of the "Dear Mom" post on your fridge?
No, you should be lowering the dose. Lee is bouncing a lot, because you are not taking the dose reductions soon enough. I actually see several occasions in the last several months where the dose should have been reduced. But the past can not be changed. You move forward from where you are right now.
I'm only going to look at the last couple of weeks. I will be stating the dose in U40 units first, then in parentheses will put the U100 measurement, that shows how much insulin you draw up into the U100 syringe.
On 2/19/2020, when Lee got that BG of 80 at +6, that was a dose reduction. You should have gone down that evening from 4U to 3.75U. (8U to 7.5U). You delayed the reduction for 3 cycles, but not sure why.
On 2/22/2020, when Lee got that BG of 77 at +7, that was another dose reduction. You should have gone down from 3.75U to 3.5U (7.5U to 7U) Again, you delayed the reduction for 3 cycles. Not sure why.
I also urge you to get a few tests in the PM cycle. At least 1 before you go to bed. Many cats blood glucose levels drop lower at night, because they are more active then and burning off energy. That energy is in the form of glucose, so their glucose levels drop lower.
Saw the big jump in dose on 4/28/2019 and wondered why. That is when you switched to using U100 syringes with this U40 Prozinc insulin. The dose you record on the SS is usually the U40 dose, not what you actually drew up in the U100 syringe. But I see that Djamila and Rachel were giving you dosing information according to the U100 syringes you were using. That's unusual. At first, I thought Billy Gray Lee was a high dose kitty with IAA or acromegaly, but I see that is not the case. Water under the bridge. Let's move forward from this point, and keep using what you are used to.
The Oratene contains sorbitol which is a form of sugar. You might want to stop using that and see how the BG levels respond.
You might want to consider eliminating the Dr Elseys Clean Protein dry food and only feed the canned foods. Some cats do ok on that food, other cats have higher blood glucose when they are eating it. The chicken flavor is lower in carbs, but the salmon flavor is too high in carbs for a diabetic cat.
What canned foods is Lee eating right now? Brand, style, flavor would be helpful to know.
How long ago was Lee's dental?
Are the mouth ulcers still there?
Are they rodent ulcers?
We help each other as much as possible. Call on family and friends. See if neighbors can help, or a young kid in the neighborhood. Check with our social network - church, knitting group, whatever sort of groups you belong to.
Then, stress relief activities. Mindfulness breathing, yoga, stretching exercises, connect with nature, watch something goofy on tv, take a break and eat a piece of chocolate or cook a fun meal.
p.s Djamila isn't posting on the message board anymore. Taking care of some of her own family right now. Rachel is not here either right now. Don't know why, but she left in July 2019. Neither of them have been on in many, many months.
Lisa and little
Very Active Member
I see You got some good advice from Deb. Just wanted to jump in and give a stress relieving hug. I know how tough juggling this all as single person can be. The 4 months I have just been through with 2 sick cats and no help has taken It’s toll. I really do understand what you are going through and wanted to send some love your way
Deb & Wink
Very Active Member
Iris, I know how tough "gut problems" can be. Had 18 inches of my colon removed a decade ago.
It can be an absolute "Love/hate" relationship with food, when you never know when you will be doubled over in pain from the gut issues from eating a particular food.
It can be an absolute "Love/hate" relationship with food, when you never know when you will be doubled over in pain from the gut issues from eating a particular food.
Iris Deary
Member
I see You got some good advice from Deb. Just wanted to jump in and give a stress relieving hug. I know how tough juggling this all as single person can be. The 4 months I have just been through with 2 sick cats and no help has taken It’s toll. I really do understand what you are going through and wanted to send some love your way
Thank you. All I have wanted to do was try to hide but there is no way. I have some sick friends all 70's -90's. The only younger one i know works with PAWS but I've already asked for help relocating some of the kitties that moved here when my friend across the road died. So far no mention of help. I've asked both vets. Then you fall in love with them like children and worry, worry, worry. I thought I'd lose it totally when my mare Buttons(29) had to be put down on Sept. 1. She had a stroke and it was awful..the whole thing was awful, right up to walking up in the upper pastures to bury her. Thankfully I knew a guy who knew people and one came and dug the grave and his cousin came and helped or I would have been there with a shovel. Thank you. I can use prayers.
Iris Deary
Member
Yes, that's funny as in odd. I had 18" removed in October 1990. Some days my tummy is normal size the next I look pregnant. One day I can have some pizza the next I can have only oatmeal. So, I get that totally. I was adopted and have only recently found that I had a baby brother born around 1915 that died at the age of 2 from enterocolitis. Kinda think I got that gene.. Some days there's just no point to eating at all. Thanks for the comradery.
Deb & Wink
Very Active Member
Prayers being sent. Lots and lots.
Let us know how things are going.
Any time you want me to take a look at Lee's SS just let me know.
I'm here most days on the message board.
Until spring is sprung and then I want to play in my flower gardens.
If you implement any of the suggestions I made, simply record it on the SS over in the Remarks column.
Let us know how things are going.
Any time you want me to take a look at Lee's SS just let me know.
I'm here most days on the message board.
Until spring is sprung and then I want to play in my flower gardens.
If you implement any of the suggestions I made, simply record it on the SS over in the Remarks column.
That I know very well. Have permanently eliminated so many foods from my diet. Any type of seed or nut, even the tiny seeds in kiwi, blueberries, strawberries could cause problems, could set it off. I actually have very few gut problems these days, but can't touch green peppers, not even the tiniest amount unless I want acid reflux all day and night.
Lisa and little
Very Active Member
I cried when I read this. I do feel your pain. prayers sent. May you find some peace. loving animals is hard as they are always gone too soon.
Iris Deary
Member
First of all Iris, some big hugs for you.
You are dealing with a lot right now, and it's never easy to deal with your own health issues and take care of sick animals at the same time. The stress levels you are feeling must be incredible. Let's see if we can reduce that stress a bit.
Do you still have a copy of the "Dear Mom" post on your fridge?
No, you should be lowering the dose. Lee is bouncing a lot, because you are not taking the dose reductions soon enough. I actually see several occasions in the last several months where the dose should have been reduced. But the past can not be changed. You move forward from where you are right now.
I'm only going to look at the last couple of weeks. I will be stating the dose in U40 units first, then in parentheses will put the U100 measurement, that shows how much insulin you draw up into the U100 syringe.
On 2/19/2020, when Lee got that BG of 80 at +6, that was a dose reduction. You should have gone down that evening from 4U to 3.75U. (8U to 7.5U). You delayed the reduction for 3 cycles, but not sure why.
On 2/22/2020, when Lee got that BG of 77 at +7, that was another dose reduction. You should have gone down from 3.75U to 3.5U (7.5U to 7U) Again, you delayed the reduction for 3 cycles. Not sure why.
I also urge you to get a few tests in the PM cycle. At least 1 before you go to bed. Many cats blood glucose levels drop lower at night, because they are more active then and burning off energy. That energy is in the form of glucose, so their glucose levels drop lower.
Saw the big jump in dose on 4/28/2019 and wondered why. That is when you switched to using U100 syringes with this U40 Prozinc insulin. The dose you record on the SS is usually the U40 dose, not what you actually drew up in the U100 syringe. But I see that Djamila and Rachel were giving you dosing information according to the U100 syringes you were using. That's unusual. At first, I thought Billy Gray Lee was a high dose kitty with IAA or acromegaly, but I see that is not the case. Water under the bridge. Let's move forward from this point, and keep using what you are used to.
The Oratene contains sorbitol which is a form of sugar. You might want to stop using that and see how the BG levels respond.
You might want to consider eliminating the Dr Elseys Clean Protein dry food and only feed the canned foods. Some cats do ok on that food, other cats have higher blood glucose when they are eating it. The chicken flavor is lower in carbs, but the salmon flavor is too high in carbs for a diabetic cat.
What canned foods is Lee eating right now? Brand, style, flavor would be helpful to know.
How long ago was Lee's dental?
Are the mouth ulcers still there?
Are they rodent ulcers?
We help each other as much as possible. Call on family and friends. See if neighbors can help, or a young kid in the neighborhood. Check with our social network - church, knitting group, whatever sort of groups you belong to.
Then, stress relief activities. Mindfulness breathing, yoga, stretching exercises, connect with nature, watch something goofy on tv, take a break and eat a piece of chocolate or cook a fun meal.
p.s Djamila isn't posting on the message board anymore. Taking care of some of her own family right now. Rachel is not here either right now. Don't know why, but she left in July 2019. Neither of them have been on in many, many months.
Deb & Wink
Very Active Member
Hi Iris,
You responded. But you only quoted my post.
Would you try again please?
No need to click on the "Reply" in the lower right corner of the previous post in order to respond.
Simply start typing in the box below the last post, then click on the "Post Reply" button to send your post.
Thank you.
You responded. But you only quoted my post.
Would you try again please?
No need to click on the "Reply" in the lower right corner of the previous post in order to respond.
Simply start typing in the box below the last post, then click on the "Post Reply" button to send your post.
Thank you.
Iris Deary
Member
I actually had typed all the answers and sent but there had been an error and it erased it all. I cant reply from my phone. I will try to fix that.
So, maybe a shorter version of what i originally replied that I thought was on here.
I stopped Oratene drops and gel.
I stopped Dr. Elsey's food although Lee is crazy about it as a treat.
Lee gets FF chunky food and sometimes Friskies pate. Chunky is chicken and turkey. Friskies is usually chicken or today he got some tuna because that was all I had.
Lee's visit to vet was Oct.8. 2019. I wanted vet to look at mouth and I thought his boosters should be due. Vet could find no record of any immunizations although he insisted they had to be done...He had depo medrol and clindamycin then and immunizations. FELV and FIV were negative. He had a dental then on Oct.24. with three extractions. His upper canines were removed. They were huge and actually were like tusks. Where one had worn a place on his lip is the area still inflamed and ulcerous. He had another round of Clindamycin. Then Clavamox twice recently.
I don't know what rodent ulcers are. Please tell me and what to do?
Lees' values are so high at night and in morning. I just don't know where to begin. I should reduce dose then. Doc said to up to 4 U40 units. I have not done that. I've went down to 7.5 and 7 U 100 units again. I will check him this afternoon. If nothing else happens I will try several times......................
About helly- My stepson is trying to take care of my estranged husband and after 3 hospital visits in last week and discharge he was finally admitted last night at the VA center about 2 hours away with a lot of pneumonia that the other hospitals said had resolved. I have been cooking some for them. He lives in another county. I don't have family, per se. I was adopted. My family was gone by the time I was 26. My friends are like me. Old. 70's to 90's and sickly. I'm trying to teach a boy that weedeats for me and cleans stalls what to do if I get down, etc.
So, maybe a shorter version of what i originally replied that I thought was on here.
I stopped Oratene drops and gel.
I stopped Dr. Elsey's food although Lee is crazy about it as a treat.
Lee gets FF chunky food and sometimes Friskies pate. Chunky is chicken and turkey. Friskies is usually chicken or today he got some tuna because that was all I had.
Lee's visit to vet was Oct.8. 2019. I wanted vet to look at mouth and I thought his boosters should be due. Vet could find no record of any immunizations although he insisted they had to be done...He had depo medrol and clindamycin then and immunizations. FELV and FIV were negative. He had a dental then on Oct.24. with three extractions. His upper canines were removed. They were huge and actually were like tusks. Where one had worn a place on his lip is the area still inflamed and ulcerous. He had another round of Clindamycin. Then Clavamox twice recently.
I don't know what rodent ulcers are. Please tell me and what to do?
Lees' values are so high at night and in morning. I just don't know where to begin. I should reduce dose then. Doc said to up to 4 U40 units. I have not done that. I've went down to 7.5 and 7 U 100 units again. I will check him this afternoon. If nothing else happens I will try several times......................
About helly- My stepson is trying to take care of my estranged husband and after 3 hospital visits in last week and discharge he was finally admitted last night at the VA center about 2 hours away with a lot of pneumonia that the other hospitals said had resolved. I have been cooking some for them. He lives in another county. I don't have family, per se. I was adopted. My family was gone by the time I was 26. My friends are like me. Old. 70's to 90's and sickly. I'm trying to teach a boy that weedeats for me and cleans stalls what to do if I get down, etc.
Deb & Wink
Very Active Member
Thank you Iris, That post came through just fine.
Give me a few minutes to look at Lee's SS.
Thank you for stopping the Oratene drops and gel. Time will tell if that makes a difference in the blood glucose (BG) levels.
Thank you for stopping the Dr. Elsey's dry food also. It will take time to see if that was a factor causing Billy Gray Lee's high glucose levels.
I'll be sending you another reply soon.
Give me a few minutes to look at Lee's SS.
Thank you for stopping the Oratene drops and gel. Time will tell if that makes a difference in the blood glucose (BG) levels.
Thank you for stopping the Dr. Elsey's dry food also. It will take time to see if that was a factor causing Billy Gray Lee's high glucose levels.
I'll be sending you another reply soon.
Iris Deary
Member
about help, sorry. my eyes are really blurry.
Deb & Wink
Very Active Member
Rodent ulcers is a term for lesions on the lips. The correct term is "eosinophilic plaques."
"The most common site for these lesions is on the lips, especially the upper lip, where they appear as ulcers. They are sometimes referred to as 'rodent ulcers' although this term is technically incorrect. ... These lesions are often called eosinophilic plaques."
From your description of the lesions on Lee's lips, I thought that could be the problem.
This link describes the diagnosis and treatment options:
https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/feline-eosinophilic-granuloma-complex-in-cats
If the sores and ulcers on Lee's lips have still not cleared up, he should have another visit to the vet, so the vet can look and see what is going on.
1. When was the last round of antibiotics?
2. When did you start those antibiotics and when did you stop?
3. Were there any signs that the ulcers were getting better?
"The most common site for these lesions is on the lips, especially the upper lip, where they appear as ulcers. They are sometimes referred to as 'rodent ulcers' although this term is technically incorrect. ... These lesions are often called eosinophilic plaques."
From your description of the lesions on Lee's lips, I thought that could be the problem.
This link describes the diagnosis and treatment options:
https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/feline-eosinophilic-granuloma-complex-in-cats
If the sores and ulcers on Lee's lips have still not cleared up, he should have another visit to the vet, so the vet can look and see what is going on.
1. When was the last round of antibiotics?
2. When did you start those antibiotics and when did you stop?
3. Were there any signs that the ulcers were getting better?
Deb & Wink
Very Active Member
I think the dose of 7U is good for Lee right now. That is 7U measured in the U100 syringe. (or 3.5U in the U40 syringe)
If you are able to test sometime during the middle of the 12 hour cycle, that information is helpful to us.
Are you ever able to test Lee during the night time cycle? A test that is later than the pre-shot test? Maybe one test before you go to bed?
Deb & Wink
Very Active Member
Yes, I know what that is like. Family gone here also.
Most of my friends are in their 60's and 70's and have health problems of their own. Just like your friends. It is difficult getting old, managing your own health problems and having no one around to help you. You do the best you can.
"Treasure Every Day" is how I try to live my life. Some days are better than others.
Good that your stepson is able to help with your estranged husband. Pneumonia can be difficult to treat, and can come back if someone is not taking all their medications correctly and eating properly. Sounds to me like the VA hospital, although it is so far away (2 hours), is the best place for your husband right now. Hope he gets the care he needs and can be discharged from the hospital after treatment.
Iris Deary
Member
Actually his levels were so high is why I bought it and the Oratene.
Also I just added new numbers. I was not in house yesterday. I worked in garage cleaning kitties home.
Also I just added new numbers. I was not in house yesterday. I worked in garage cleaning kitties home.
Deb & Wink
Very Active Member
Ok, Iris.
Thank you for putting some updated numbers on the spreadsheet.
There is a natural protective mechanism in a cats body that will protect them when the blood glucose drops lower than the cats body is used to. For Lee, that low number of 174 at +9 yesterday likely caused his blood glucose to rise steeply by the evening. So that explains the 401 BG reading at PMPS on 2/28/2020. His body is trying to protect him by releasing hormones and stored sugars into the blood stream to bring those low numbers back up to a "safe" level. We call it "bouncing." Have you heard the term used here before?
His blood glucose could have been lower before that +9. We simply don't know. Don't worry about it. You do as much as you can. You have to live your life and have a lot of other responsibilities, so you needed to be in the garage yesterday, cleaning the kitties home.
If you are able to get a blood glucose reading closer to the +6 time, that would help us to guide you.
One day you might be able to get a +5 test. Another day you might be able to get a +7 test.
Some days you might not be able to test at all. Maybe you are away, to grocery shop or visiting friends. That is ok. We all need to run errands and visit with friends.
How many cats live with you Iris? How many other animals do you have to take care of?
Thank you for putting some updated numbers on the spreadsheet.
There is a natural protective mechanism in a cats body that will protect them when the blood glucose drops lower than the cats body is used to. For Lee, that low number of 174 at +9 yesterday likely caused his blood glucose to rise steeply by the evening. So that explains the 401 BG reading at PMPS on 2/28/2020. His body is trying to protect him by releasing hormones and stored sugars into the blood stream to bring those low numbers back up to a "safe" level. We call it "bouncing." Have you heard the term used here before?
His blood glucose could have been lower before that +9. We simply don't know. Don't worry about it. You do as much as you can. You have to live your life and have a lot of other responsibilities, so you needed to be in the garage yesterday, cleaning the kitties home.
If you are able to get a blood glucose reading closer to the +6 time, that would help us to guide you.
One day you might be able to get a +5 test. Another day you might be able to get a +7 test.
Some days you might not be able to test at all. Maybe you are away, to grocery shop or visiting friends. That is ok. We all need to run errands and visit with friends.
How many cats live with you Iris? How many other animals do you have to take care of?
Iris Deary
Member
Thank you for that answer. That relieves my mind but 7 is where I feel more comfortable.. And I'm sorry about your family. I miss my Dad and Mom. I was 16 when he died and 26 when she did...of the same ailment as my husband...
I can try and set another alarm maybe at 10 if I am back in from giving other cat his antibiotic. I'll make a note and put next to bed to check him if I cant sleep from pain or spasms. That's a positive thing I can do besides walk. I try and go to bed as early as possible. This Epstein Barr and Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever has taken a toll on me and I can sleep 12 hours if I have a Tylenol or none if I don't. LOL I fall asleep sitting and talking to someone. LOL
Thank you for talking to me.
Iris Deary
Member
I have been trying to test in middle of day before I leave and/or late afternoon when I come back.
Iris Deary
Member
Seven cats are here. Three in garage, or hayloft..Lee on back porch which is next for cleaning. Hair is awful, and three in house. My original Kitty, Baby, who is 10 and Buddy and Bitsy who people brought for treatment and never reclaimed. Then my husband's horse, Blackie, (not his proper name) who is 29 years old. I lost my mre, Buttons, the first of September. I was standing there when she was born and she imprinted on me. It was so funny. But I was also with her when she died. I take care of a neighbor's place, too. Mail, water, heat, water plants, check everything, keep it mowed, etc. Thankfully no babies there.