Stanley changing to Pro Zinc today :)

Tania c

Tania c

Member
Hi Everyone, please meet my beautiful old boy Stanley!

Stanley is a gorgeous gentleman, who is around 19/20 years old, but he still acts like a young lad. We run a small rescue in the UK and have lots of special needs cats and dogs with lots of oldies. Stanley was left along with his siblings by his previous owners were going to 'relocate' them, (dump them many miles away to fend for themselves) of-course we could not let that happen. Stanley has mostly been an outside cat in a very rural area and has had an active life, he started to come into the house more regularly as he was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism (well controlled at the moment) and a heart murmur. Since then he is mostly an indoor cat who likes a roam out and about in the morning! the rest of the day is snoozing on the bed, of-course!

He has been going through a lot at the moment but despite everything he is an active, affectionate, playful happy boy and Im just hoping I can get his diabetes back under control as he seems to be everywhere at the moment with his bg tests.

Around last February he became quite ill, lethargic, not eating and a bit wobbly on his back legs, he collapsed in my arms and I rushed him to the vets. He was very yellow (eyes and skin) and his blood tests showed his liver enzymes to be really high, and possibly pancreatitis was suspected, however he was not really coming round with the treatment, IV drip, antibiotics. I asked them to test for diabetes too at the same time as the pancreatitis, which they did but said his glucose was high but not that high. The frusemide test came back as borderline diabetic (hope that makes sense!) he was at the very low level. Anyway seeing as he wasn't responding to any other treatment and getting worse they started him on a very low level of insulin and were not very hopeful, preparing me for the worst. However after a few days he made a full recovery, despite the odds!!

He came home after four days at the vets, and I was armed with insulin (caninsulin), syringes etc. At this point I was not advised at all on diet, it was just to feed him anything he would eat and anytime. I think they were mainly worried about the pancreatitis.

So he made an amazing recovery!!! We increased the insulin to 2 units and then dropped it down to 1.5 after some home testing. He has been really well managed, and just surprised us all how well he has been. He has put on weight and looks really good. Although he has always maintained his weight, I have been struggling with the right food for him. Once his pancreatitis seem to have settled I gradually put him on a diabetic food, however we have a ckd cat here who needs his renal food, and they are used to free grazing. So no doubt this has been messing with his diabetes ,as he will always try and eat the renal food and the ckd cat always wants the diabetic food!!! Despite all this he seems to have been really well managed, with great bg results.

However late August his BG levels seemed to be creeping back up. I called the vet worried, they said he might just of had an infection or been stressed. However the figures kept creeping up, although he was fine in himself, you would not have known there is anything wrong with him. The only thing that gives it away when he is high is that he paws at the water and spills it everywhere, always an alarm bell that something is going on. Also a month before he had full bloods done and frusemide and all was good, only thing is he was going a little low so needed to keep an eye on that.

So the vets gave me antibiotics for him to see if that would help, he had no temperature though. We went through the course of antibiotics and no real improvement. In the end he was getting so high the vets admitted him for tests and put him on a drip. They could not find anything obvious with him and were also getting the same BG results as me.

They did full bloods, ultrasound, blood pressure, checked thyroid levels. Only thing is that it looked like he had mild pancreatitis, so we treated him with a probiotic for that for a few days. He seemed to be coming down and BG tests were going lower, actually they were going so low that we skipped a few days and was worried he was going hypo. We reduced his shots to 0.5 units from 2.5, and things seemed to be slowly getting a little better with careful monitoring. Since last week though he has shot up again to high 30's. Im at a loss, and I feel the vets are too!! I suggested changing insulin a while ago but they wanted to do things slowly as he did seem to be responding to the caninsulin, and didnt want to change too many things as we had altered his dosage a few times and possibly too quickly.

So now I have prozink. Which I have started this morning. He is currently on 1 unit of the caninsulin, but my vet wants to put him on 0.5 to start with. Id appreciate any advice on this, as he is going so high, Im worried it wont be enough and its another change in dose, or is that what is normally recommended when starting a new insulin to start low?

Apologies for the really long intro!!! I just wanted to give you all the history ;-) Although m sure Ive missed something!

Thanks so much again and for all of your advice on this forum. Please let me know if you need any more info. x
 
Hi Tania - Stanley is indeed a handsome fella - thanks for the very complete history
It's been a very long time since my kitty was on Prozinc - It is a very good insulin, with flexible dosing
Please read the yellow stickies at the top of the forum that includes information Prozinc specific information and dosing protocols
Welcome!!!
 
Hi Tania, welcome to the Prozinc group. I am sure Linda will pop along shortly with some wonderful dosing advice but in the meantime, rest assured you have come to the right place. Prozinc is a good insulin, as I said to you before, just try and hold doses for a few days before slowly increasing if the data suggests.

Are you testing for ketones? Having a high BG in itself whilst not ideal, is not dangerous, the complication arises that with a prolonged high BG, in some cats ketones can develop and this can lead to ketosis, a very dangerous and life threatening condition that must be treated as a matter of urgency, some cats seem not to be prone to developing ketones others (like my Toby unfortunately) seem to have a greater likelihood of developing them . The best and easiest way to test for them is by a dip stick test in their wee, you can get the strips from any pharmacy, they are called "Ketostix" and cost about £5. I have mine right by our litter tray and if I hear Toby in there I just pop a stick in his flow and compare with the colour chart, I do this daily. If you cant get a mid flow test then you can get special litter which doesn't absorb the wee or else some people have put cling film over the top of the litter so the urine pools a little bit, you literally need a drop. I would really recommend you test for ketones.

Good luck with the switch, I think you will find it much better x
 
Thanks so much Kate for the reassurance, it really means a lot as I get really worried when he is seems to continually high. Yes I have been testing for ketones, the last one was last week, thankfully negative, but Ill try and get one today too.

His AMPS was 37 this morning (he had eaten half an hour before) but I would have liked to have started him on the Prozinc at one unit, I know my vet was not sure so I guess she just wanted to be safer. Its just that we had upped the caninsulin to one..and now we have started the prozinc at .5 so dropped it again, I dont want to confuse his body anymore!! He has had three doses of the prozinc since starting yesterday. Can we go up to one unit do you think? Or shall I just be patient and increase incrementally in a few days, or a week?? Any advice much appreciated!! Sorry Im a little impatient / worried about how high he is getting. Will try get a ketone test daily. Thank you x
 
Tania c said:
Thanks so much Kate for the reassurance, it really means a lot as I get really worried when he is seems to continually high. Yes I have been testing for ketones, the last one was last week, thankfully negative, but Ill try and get one today too.

His AMPS was 37 this morning (he had eaten half an hour before) but I would have liked to have started him on the Prozinc at one unit, I know my vet was not sure so I guess she just wanted to be safer. Its just that we had upped the caninsulin to one..and now we have started the prozinc at .5 so dropped it again, I dont want to confuse his body anymore!! He has had three doses of the prozinc since starting yesterday. Can we go up to one unit do you think? Or shall I just be patient and increase incrementally in a few days, or a week?? Any advice much appreciated!! Sorry Im a little impatient / worried about how high he is getting. Will try get a ketone test daily. Thank you x
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First of all give yourself a huge pat on the back, You are doing so good. You do need to try and be patient though, I know its so hard because we just want our kitties to be better and I was exactly the same, the folks here say the whole "Sugar Dance" is a marathon not a sprint....but like I said, being high is OK as long as you are monitoring for ketones.

Linda will be able to advise properly, but I think you should complete a couple more cycles before increasing and the general rule is to go up by 0.25iu at a time, which I know seems impossible to measure, but if you have the prozinc syringes its just about doable. The thing is if you go up by more than that you could bypass the right dose for Stan and potentially put him in danger of going too low. Have you read about the two dosing methods? Start Low Go Slow, and Tight Regulation? Whilst they are for another insulin, the principals stay the same and its worth reading (apologies I don't know how to do a link!!)

Linda aka @MrWorfMen's Mom has been invaluable in helping me and I am sure will be along to add her thoughts.

Keep doing what you are doing and keep getting those tests in as much as you can, the guys on here love data and that's the only real way they can help you with dosing. x
 
Thanks again Kate, your advice is very reassuring. Spoke to my vet today and she said ideally she would like to keep him on that dose for 7 days then increase to one unit, depending on what his lowest is during the day. She did mention the prozinc syringes too. Unless ofcourse he tests positive for ketones & he is regularly higher than 35, I need to sit tight. Hope that makes sense!! & yes trying to keep up with the terminology I did read about slgs & tr, as I couldn’t figure out what it meant on the spreadsheet ;-)

In the meantime Ill keep trying to get a wee sample from him but he’s not obliging &
don’t worry I’ll get the data!! Xx
 
Welcome to you and Stanley. He is indeed a very handsome little man. He reminds me a lot of little lion cub!

I see you spoke with your vet today and she wants you to stay on the 0.5u dose for 7 days. I think your vet decided on the 0.5u dose because Stanley was getting some pretty nice readings at that dose of Vetsulin. His BG seems to have gone up when the dose of Vetsulin was increased to 1u. Now with the switch to ProZinc it doesn't look like his numbers are budging much so I would be hesitant to hold the dose too long if BG doesn't start to improve as that can cause some glucose toxicity which then needs dose increases to get past.

Diet wise you mentioned Stanley sometimes getting into the CKD kitty's diet. Is that something that is still happening? The renal food can be high in carbs and if he is pilfering more of that it could be affecting his BG.

If you look at the day cycle yesterday (23rd) Stanley dropped 12+ mmol in the space of 6 hours. That is a big drop and may have set off some bouncing. Bouncing happens when BG drops to levels kitty perceives to be too low and what kitty perceives as too low is relative. With Stanley's BG having been elevated for several days previously, he likely felt that drop was too much and his defenses went into action to dump extra stored glucose into his bloodstream. Bouncing is a natural albeit annoying part of diabetes that you just have to ride out. Bounces can last for 3 days in some cats.
So for now I would hold the 0.5u dose and keep checking for ketones. If BG doesn't start to improve in the next day or so, I'd recommend increasing the dose to 0.75u.

I notice there are some pre-shot tests missing on the SS. It's really important to always get a pre-shot test to ensure it is safe to give insulin. You're doing great with the day mid cycle testing. The night cycle however is a bit of mystery and many cats go lower at night than they do during the day. Obviously none of us are going to stay up all night to test but if you can grab a test at +2 or +3 post shot and again before bed every night if bedtime is after +3, it will provide clues as to what is happening during the night cycle and give you a fuller picture of what is going on.
 
Thankyou so so much Linda, and for looking at the results on his ss so carefully, I really appreciate it. Also explaining about bouncing as it has been hard to get my head round, but I think I got it now. I’ll make sure I test before every shot and try and do more night tests, as many as I can!

He seems to coming down a little bit still bouncing would you mind having a look for me? Not sure when I should start increasing? I said I’d wait speak to my vet on Monday and then we would reassess, I think she feels it will be ok to increase straight to one unit but I think it is recommended on here to increase by 0.25?

Regarding the renal food he can’t get into the dry anymore but might occasionally be stealing a mouthful of wet renal or if he can steal any Felix he will try, but I’m trying to be as vigilant as possible if I see him pushing one of the cats off there food I’ll geab the bowl off him!

Thanks again for your invaluable advice and hope we can get those numbers down soon :) xxx
 
I still wonder if those highs aren't simply a product of bouncing. BG has been dropping well over 5mmol within 3 hours of the shot and that is a hefty drop. I'd hold the dose for at least today and possibly tomorrow and try to grab some night time data before increasing and then I would only increase by 0.25u to ensure you don't jump over the best dose.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
I still wonder if those highs aren't simply a product of bouncing. BG has been dropping well over 5mmol within 3 hours of the shot and that is a hefty drop. I'd hold the dose for at least today and possibly tomorrow and try to grab some night time data before increasing and then I would only increase by 0.25u to ensure you don't jump over the best dose.
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Thanks again, I think your right about the bouncing. Although I’ve failed completely today doing any tests apart from the pre shot tests. I’ll try my best to get some done tonight and more mid day ones tmrw. It looks like his bg tests haven’t gone into the 30’s so I’m hoping that’s a positive. He’s eating like a trooper though and drinking lots. Will keep testing x
 
On another note! I’m thinking of changing over to the human meter as the test strips are so much cheaper and it is just costing me a fortune with the alpha trak ones, especially the amount of tests I need to do at the moment. Just wondering what your thoughts were on this and which human meter is advisable? With my diabetic dog we used the freestyle lite one. (It got chewed so cant use that one!!) thankyou and sorry if this is not the right thread to post this question.
 
Hi everyone, hope your having nice weekend! I got a few more tests last night from Stanley, he still seems to be really high. No ketones thankfully. But he is eating lots all the time, is that normal? He’s a big boy and seems to have maintained his weight through all of this, so I have been a little worried about acromegaly but hopefully I’m worrying about nothing, and it’s just the low dose he’s on that needs increasing.
 
Help!! It looks like Stanley is bouncing quite a bit still. I tested him an hour before his shot as noticed he was eating a lot and was quite ravenous. He was 29.5, then rested him an hour later before his shot and he had jumped to 22.6 I expected him to be higher not lower as he had had a big feed in between. It’s very confusing!! Any ideas? Will be gratefully received. Thankyou xx
 
Tania, I can't advise about Prozinc but I will tag the more experienced members for you. As it's Sunday, you might not get immediate response, but hopefully someone will chime in with some insight soon.
@FurBabiesMama
@MrWorfMen's Mom

Hugs and chin scritches to Stanley, adorable orange Stanley!
 
Idjit's mom said:
Tania, I can't advise about Prozinc but I will tag the more experienced members for you. As it's Sunday, you might not get immediate response, but hopefully someone will chime in with some insight soon.
@FurBabiesMama
@MrWorfMen's Mom

Hugs and chin scritches to Stanley, adorable orange Stanley!
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Aww thankyou Lou, lots of big orange purrs and cuddles from Stan, he loves a good old chin rub ;-) xx
 
Love kitty cuddles! Idjit is not a cuddler :( but he will bolster against my legs on the bed sometimes and joyfully accepts belly rubs. That's how I gets my 'purrrrrrs' from my big boy.
 
As strange as it might sound, the fact that BG went down after Stan ate is good news. It means his pancreas is still working to try to deal with the food he takes in.
Given his numbers are still high, I'd increase to 0.75u tomorrow and continue to get mid cycle tests and some night time test when possible. If at all possible, try to get some tests in the +4 to +7 post shot timeframe as that is usually when ProZinc reaches peak action.
Can I ask you to do a bit of housekeeping? It would be helpful to add a row to the spreadsheet so we can differentiate between the Vetsulin and ProZinc. Adding a line above the first day on ProZinc stating "ProZinc started" would be appreciated.:)
 
Idjit's mom said:
Love kitty cuddles! Idjit is not a cuddler :( but he will bolster against my legs on the bed sometimes and joyfully accepts belly rubs. That's how I gets my 'purrrrrrs' from my big boy.
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oh he’s absolutely gorgeous he looks like a big cuddle monster! We have one who looks very similar called ‘Rug’!! (For obvious reasonThankfully I’m spoilt here with kitty cuddles and my bed is covered with bundles of fluffy loveliness and ofcourse the odd swipe here and there ;-) the joys of running a rescue
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
As strange as it might sound, the fact that BG went down after Stan ate is good news. It means his pancreas is still working to try to deal with the food he takes in.
Given his numbers are still high, I'd increase to 0.75u tomorrow and continue to get mid cycle tests and some night time test when possible. If at all possible, try to get some tests in the +4 to +7 post shot timeframe as that is usually when ProZinc reaches peak action.
Can I ask you to do a bit of housekeeping? It would be helpful to add a row to the spreadsheet so we can differentiate between the Vetsulin and ProZinc. Adding a line above the first day on ProZinc stating "ProZinc started" would be appreciated.:)
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Thanks so much Linda, that is reassuring about his pancreas. I've increased to .75, and new test strips coming tomorrow so I can do a lot more tests (Ive been running low, surprising how quickly you go through them!) so was saving them for the +4 test and pre shot tests. Spoke to my vet today who thinks we should give him one unit starting from tmrw morning, as she said this is the recommended starting dose but she wanted to start low initially. What do you think, is that ok? Dont want him to keep bouncing, but looks like one unit might be a better starting dose for him. I've added a row on my sheet, hope that is what you meant, please let me know if there is anything else. Im possibly going to change to a human meter - will I need a new spread sheet for that? Thank you again :) xx
 
You won't need to set up a new spreadsheet, just PM Marje and Gracie and she can change the format of the spreadsheet for a human meter. She did that for me when I changed from pet to human meter. Then you still have the history of BGs from the pet meter available for review, if needed.
 
Hi Linda, Im wondering if you think I should hold the .075 dose another day and then increase to one so Ive done 3 full cycles? Or just increase to one now as my vet suggested, its a tricky one as I don't want him to keep bouncing, and same time dont want him to keep being high. Although we havn't hit the 30's for a few days now, so thats good! Ive got a human meter arriving today with test strips and more alphatrack ones arriving tomorrow so Ill be reading to start frequent testing ;-)
 
Although numbers are still trending high, they do seem to be coming down so I'd hold the 0.75u dose for tonight and then increase tomorrow AM if pre-shot is still in the red. I used to always make dose increases on a day cycle when I knew I'd be bright eyed and bushy tailed to deal with monitoring the cycle. Now that you have more strips some nighttime data will also help provide clues as to how to proceed dosing wise.
Starting dose for ProZinc is 0.5u to 1u so what you've been doing is within normal recommendations.
One word of warning. Pick one meter and stick with it. If you switch to a human meter that is fine but switching back and forth can be very confusing. The human meter will read lower than a pet meter. Perhaps you can keep your AT2 for backup or for curves if the vet requests one.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Although numbers are still trending high, they do seem to be coming down so I'd hold the 0.75u dose for tonight and then increase tomorrow AM if pre-shot is still in the red. I used to always make dose increases on a day cycle when I knew I'd be bright eyed and bushy tailed to deal with monitoring the cycle. Now that you have more strips some nighttime data will also help provide clues as to how to proceed dosing wise.
Starting dose for ProZinc is 0.5u to 1u so what you've been doing is within normal recommendations.
One word of warning. Pick one meter and stick with it. If you switch to a human meter that is fine but switching back and forth can be very confusing. The human meter will read lower than a pet meter. Perhaps you can keep your AT2 for backup or for curves if the vet requests one.
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Thanks again for your wise words!! Bright eyed and bushy tailed is something I aspire to one day ;-) with kids and numerous sick animals to look after it’s not something I’m familiar with anymore x
 
Hi all, the lovely Marje changed my ss sheet for a human metre. Unfortunately my human metre is not working great. Because Stan is quite high at times it can’t read the results and just says ‘high’. I have been comparing to the alphatrack (strips arrived last night) and one reading where human metre said high the alphatrack read at 27.4. However on the pm +2 test it read at 19.9 & alphatrack Read at 19.8?!!! So seems to be reading higher than AT meter. It can’t read past 33 but not sure why it was registering high on the 27.4 test. Bizarre!! I thought they were meant to read lower. So just to confuse people a few tests were done on the human metre that could be read, and a few on the AT when human metre could not read have put on remarks on ss. I think the least confusing thing to do will be to stick with the pet metre until Stanly is a bit more stable.

Talking of Stan’s results he seems to be bouncing ,I think, he’s going high again but then last night at +4 he was 13.6 & at +7@27.4. Agggh!!!
 
It's best to stick with one meter or you will drive yourself crazy. While typically the AT2 will read higher than the human meter, every meter has a variance allowance of up to 20%. So if one meter reads high and the other reads low for a particular reading, any "expected" difference between them can be diminished or magnified. It's also important to note that comparison testing on different drops of blood can also illicit different results because BG is always changing. Different human meters will not give you the exact same readings and no meter, pet or human is going to be 100% accurate.
I'd choose whichever meter works best for you and stick to it.
Just out of curiosity, what human meter are you using?
 
Just an update, Stan’s bg tests are remaining high (please see ss) even with the increase to 1 unit. They actually seem to be getting higher. I have increased it this morning to 1.25...wondering if should do this for a few days then up to 1.50?
He seems fine in himself apart from the increased eating & drinking. No keytones in urine. Soft stools so have added probiotic’s in his food today, wondering if it’s flare up of his pancreatitis that we have not got on top of. He has lost a bit of weight from 4.9kg beginning of September to 4.7kg today. Not sure if we’re missing anything underlying going on. I’m at a loss :( any ideas gratefully appreciated. X
 
While chronic pancreatitis will cause elevated BG it usually flares and then settles and your account of Stanley overall doesn't sound like a kitty with a flare of pancreatitis going on.

It looks like his numbers started gradually increasing just before you switched to ProZinc. I too would question whether something else is going on and amongst the suspects would be
  1. Hyperthyroid can make BG harder to control. When was the last time thyroid function tests were done?
  2. Dental Issues often set off higher BGs. When was last dental check/cleaning?
  3. Soft stool - any diet changes or is that something that Stanley periodically experiences?
  4. Bladder Infection. Diabetic kitties are quite prone to bladder infections.
I think you were right to up the dose to 1.25u and I'd hold that for 6 to 8 cycles and see if the numbers improve at all. If not I'd definitely consider having a little checkup to see if there is something brewing.
 
Thanks Linda for your reply.

It’s very baffling. I think I have gone over most things on your list;

1. He is hyperthyroid and we did a thyroid test about 4 weeks ago and was within normal ranges & well controlled.

2. He had a dental a few years ago, I think it looks all ok in there but my vet is visiting on Thursday so I’ll get him to take a look at him.

3. I’m trying to be strict with his diet and he only gets his diabetic food and a wet chicken food which I have stuck with for the past month. But he does seem to have soft stools often I thought it might be due to pancreatitis and his excessive eating. But possibly could have IBS.
There has been no vomiting and he has had several ultrasounds.

4. Re: urine infection; I test his urine regularly and on the dip sticks there is no sign of infection again I will double check with Vets. Although he had a weeks of antibiotics last month to rule out any infections.

Only other thing I can think of to double check is his heart and how that is going as he does have a murmur. But agin the vets have checked on that recently and he has been scanned but that was a while ago.

Maybe another scan and X-ray? I was thinking to test for Acromegaly too but he has lost weight so not sure if that is necessary now.

He is a mystery just praying it’s not cancer as we just lost my other cat to lymphoma and it was undiagnosed until the very end and sadly It was too late, I knew something was not right but Vets kept thinking it was kidney disease and arthritis. Kept going back for bloods until eventually they found it, sometimes these easily diagnosed conditions mask what is actually going wrong.

I’ll see if I can get a copy of his bloods too to Post.

Thanks again it is so nice to have support and another opinion and ideas to bounce off xx
 
Just checked his teeth and there not great but mostly superficial, however one tooth the gum is very red so might need taking out, can that make his bg results so high?

Also had another thought the vet said on his last bloods taken that his kidney values were creeping up a little, wondering if this could also change his bg? Might be worth doing an early kidney sdma test.
 
Yes even one tooth being inflamed could elevate BG. With it being red at the gum line, it's quite possible there is an infection present and that will definitely contribute to elevated BG. Certainly wouldn't hurt to do an SDMA. At 19.5yrs old, kidney issues should definitely on the radar and that too can effect BG as quite often kitties with kidney issue pee more and get a little dehydrated which can contribute to higher BG.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Yes even one tooth being inflamed could elevate BG. With it being red at the gum line, it's quite possible there is an infection present and that will definitely contribute to elevated BG. Certainly wouldn't hurt to do an SDMA. At 19.5yrs old, kidney issues should definitely on the radar and that too can effect BG as quite often kitties with kidney issue pee more and get a little dehydrated which can contribute to higher BG.
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Will get the vet to check him on Thursday sooner if I’m worried ofcourse. It’s just nice when he can get checked at home and doesn’t have stress of journey to Vets. If needs dental booking will get that sorted ASAP and will take full bloods again and do sdma see if that sheds light on what’s going on with my old boy he still looks remarkably good for his age so let’s just hope it’s the tooth. Will keep you posted x
 
Hi Linda,

His bg results seem to be coming down a little although dropped to 12.4 today (could be due to not eaten at that point) but back up to 32.9 pre pm shot. Vet advised to up to 1.50 on Monday, but have stuck to 1.25. Do you think it’s safe to up dose now done 3 cycles or keep at 1.25.
Vet hopefully coming tmrw to give him a check up, look at teeth etc.
Thankyou :) xx



MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Yes even one tooth being inflamed could elevate BG. With it being red at the gum line, it's quite possible there is an infection present and that will definitely contribute to elevated BG. Certainly wouldn't hurt to do an SDMA. At 19.5yrs old, kidney issues should definitely on the radar and that too can effect BG as quite often kitties with kidney issue pee more and get a little dehydrated which can contribute to higher BG.
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Oh anything else you can think of getting the vet to check please let me know! They suggested a urine sample to do a proteinurea test to send away and check kidneys. (Although I did do a dip test and didn’t show any protein, although I know not always reliable) I would think a sdma test will be better, or both?!

I think they want to see if bg levels come down with increase of dose before doing all the tests. We did full bloods and thyroid about a month ago.
 
I agree with your vet that an increase in dose to 1.5u is needed. While Stanley's BG came down to yellow yesterday which is an improvement, it looks like he still needs more juice. It looks to me like the higher pre-shot and today's BGs might be the result of some bouncing from that almost 200 point drop yesterday although that was over 5 hours so it may or may not be bouncing.

I know I sound like a broken record but try to get at the least a before bed test every night. If you don't get at least one test in on the night cycle, there is a 12 hour period that remains a total mystery and getting that test each night often provides good clues as to what is going on. :)
 
Just an update! Have increased Stan’s does to 1.5 it’s been 7 days now and he has come lower with the occasional bounce, however seems to be more in the 20’s now, so I think that’s positive, but it’s still high :-(

Wondering if I should increase now to 1.75 (which is hard for me to be completely accurate with the syringes I have) or to two units?

Vet came and checked him out and his teeth are quite bad, no infection but he is a bit reluctant to put him through a dental at his age. Thinks there might be some ‘pockets’ in his canines and said would need to take them out. Although I’m of the opinion better now then leave it. I hoped we could get him a bit more stable / lower with his bg levels and then I’ll book him in for bloods, possible dental, anything else I can think of!

However if his bg is not going down then I think I need to get him in sooner. He does seem a little like he is loosing body condition, I did ask vet to give him vit B12 injection too, I’m also trying to wean him off dry food on to wet and raw. Raw seems to be making poops firmer so I think that’s good.

Anyway any thoughts / input would be as always very much appreciated, want to make sure I’m doing the best for my handsome ginger gentleman
 
Sorry forgot to add, not many night tests sorry Linda I’ve been really sick with rotten throat infection and trying to get as much sleep as possible, can’t be ill with all these animals to look after!! But will endeavour for more night tests ;-)
 
Oh Tania, just got over a rotten cold myself and know how "exhausting" it was just to feed my little clowder. Been in your shoes with my girl in the past and understand completely. Do what you can because as you say, you need to be in tip top condition to look after the fur kids. They need you!

Dental issues can play havoc with BG but at 19 yrs. old, I am not surprised the vet is reluctant to do surgery. Does it appear Stan is having any discomfort or difficulty eating? Some folks with geriatric kitties are giving pain meds and sometimes pulsing antibiotics to try to keep the dental issues from getting worse rather than risking the surgery. Just food for thought.

It looks like Stan does need a bit more juice. As far as drawing up those incremental doses, do your syringes have half unit markings? If not it would be worth getting syringes with those extra markings to make this easier. Consistency is more important than accuracy so you could take a used syringe and draw up some coloured water (coffee, KoolAid, food colouring in H2O) to what you feel is 1.75u and use that as a comparison gauge for future shots. I would hold off on the increase though until you are feeling better and can get those night time tests in. Our kitties have a naughty habit of going lower at night than during the day!
 
Aggggh Stan has just tested 2.4 +2 after pmps :-( have given him glucose & high carb food he is only showing mild symptoms. Thinks I’ll have to stay up with him tonight and keep testing. Really thought he was doing better with his bg levels. Sorry Linda for not replying sooner I’m still not over this nasty bug I’d be so grateful if you could look at his sheet. Yesterday he tested 15.9 amps and I had to go out all day so gave him one unit as could not check on him, I wonder if this has made him bounce?
 
Tania, retest Stanley now please and let me know what his BG is. It's been at least 30 minutes since you posted so you need to be sure his BG has come up some. 2.4 is way too low. and that means he needs his dose reduced again back to 1.75u. DO NOT shoot 2.0u again tomorrow AM.
 
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MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Tania, retest Stanley now please and let me know what his BG is. It's been at least 30 minutes since you posted so you need to be sure his BG has come up some. 2.4 is way too low on the AT2 meter and that means he needs his dose reduced again back to 1.75u. DO NOT shoot 2.0u again tomorrow AM.
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ok so he tested 3.3 about 15-20 mins after and at 01.00am he tested 5.2. Going to re test in 5 mins. Should I get him to emergency Vets?
 
No. You can handle this.;) His BG at 5.2 is just great but you need to make sure he stays there. No more food right now. We need to see if he is holding on his own without needing more food.
 
Thanks so so much Linda your a complete star ⭐️ ok we are up to 6.3 phew!

So I’ll stop putting platters of food infront of him! Shall I give it 30 minutes and re-test?

How did he get so low? Hope he didn’t go any lower than that, I was going to have an early nigh too but got distracted with work, thank goodness that I did my before bed test. I have been getting in a few night tests for you too ;-)


MrWorfMen's Mom said:
No. You can handle this.;) His BG at 5.2 is just great but you need to make sure he stays there. No more food right now. We need to see if he is holding on his own without needing more food.
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much
 
Alrighty. All's looking good. You want to get 2 consecutive tests above 5mmol before you let down your guard but you should be able to get some sleep soon. How many hours post shot are you now?
 
4 hours now, was going to test in another 20mins so 2am my time.
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Alrighty. All's looking good. You want to get 2 consecutive tests above 5mmol before you let down your guard but you should be able to get some sleep soon. How many hours post shot are you now?[/QUOT
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From your data, it looks like Stan usually hits nadir around +4/5 post shot so I think you're likely out of the woods now. Let's see what Stan has to say about things at 2am.

Hopefully this won't happen again, but they do like to throw us surprises every so often so if you find yourself in this boat again, you can always post on Health if you don't get a quick response here and you can use the 911 prefix to ensure you get some support and the help you need. I check the ProZinc forum but I am not online all the time and a lot of folks unless they use ProZinc, wouldn't see your post. The most traffic is on the Health forum so that will get you attention if no one is on here.

Just curious, what symptoms did you notice that made you decide to test?

Looks like Stan just broke a bounce. Looks like he bounced a bit after those lovely blues earlier and then came right back down.
 
Sorry a little late my dog decided to go through all the empty cat food wrappers, Grrr! So he’s 11.2 that’s without food for 30mins.

Phew!! Hopefully I can give his ears a rest for a few hours?!

Honestly I noticed no signs at all I just thought seeing as I was up late to take the opportunity to test him especially because he has been going low (for him) with the increased dose. He seems to go low quite quickly after the shot.

Depending on his tests in the morning if he goes say above 20 shall i give him 1.75? It’s so hard to judge!

Thanks again and again for all your help, oh and I did Post on main health forum too ‘911’ and worried everyone!! X

MrWorfMen's Mom said:
From your data, it looks like Stan usually hits nadir around +4/5 post shot so I think you're likely out of the woods now. Let's see what Stan has to say about things at 2am.

Hopefully this won't happen again, but they do like to throw us surprises every so often so if you find yourself in this boat again, you can always post on Health if you don't get a quick response here and you can use the 911 prefix to ensure you get some support and the help you need. I check the ProZinc forum but I am not online all the time and a lot of folks unless they use ProZinc, wouldn't see your post. The most traffic is on the Health forum so that will get you attention if no one is on here.

Just curious, what symptoms did you notice that made you decide to test?

Looks like Stan just broke a bounce. Looks like he bounced a bit after those lovely blues earlier and then came right back down.
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11.2
 
Well he's come up quite a bit now. Did you give him candy? JUST KIDDING! That is probably a bounce starting now.
Tomorrow, as long as his AMPS is high enough to shoot which it's likely to be, his dose should be 1.75u. The pre-shot tells you it's safe to give insulin but the low today, told you his dose needs to be reduced to 1.75u. It's how low the dose takes Stan that is critical to making dosing decisions. He showed how quickly he can plunge today and you can see how dosing based on a pre-shot reading could get dangerous.

How about you get yourself ready for bed, test Stan one more time before you crawl under the covers, just to be sure he's staying up and then call it a night. Leave a little LC food out for him to eat if he needs it.

You did a marvelous job looking after Stan tonight. Good work! Glad to hear you posted on Health too. Safety first. Sweet dreams! :D
 
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