? How can BG go down w/out insulin?

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Could be his pancreas kicking in a bit. He seems to run pretty flat most of the time, which isn't really a bad thing, so it could just be a product of that. Remember, he stays in blues a lot, which are healing numbers, so his pancreas get a nice rest a lot of the time...which means they might kick in occasionally, allowing him to not skyrocket. There's really no way to be SURE what's happening, but that's my best educated guess. Hopefully it means he'll head towards the R word one of these days!
 
I'm hesitant to give him anything this morning under the circumstances since I can't monitor him.

We have a vet appointment this evening.

I should have time to check his BG before we head out so the vet doesn't have to check him while he's stressed.
 
That's definitely up to you. If it was me, I'd probably give him something since his AMPS is basically identical to yesterday...and you have good data yesterday to support him staying flat. And while 168 is a NICE number, it isn't a "normal" cat number yet...though we hope he is heading that way for sure. It's tough when we have to work and can't be there, I know. So you have to do what makes you most comfortable! Just wanted to share my thoughts. :)
 
I understand the decision to skip this morning, but one thing to consider if this happens again is that his pancreas does appear to be healing, but that is fragile. Leaving him without insulin support can send him backwards a bit as it overburdens the pancreas. You do have lots of data showing his dose range is safe and appropriate right now, and he would have been safe at his current dose. If you're really feeling anxious, you can reduce a bit, but skipping altogether isn't ideal, especially when he seems to be heading in a good direction. It's better to walk him down the dosing scale - 0.75, 0.5, 0.25, drop, and then off instead of cutting him off all at once and putting it all on his pancreas to handle. Unless of course he suddenly starts running in the 50-120 (and mostly under 100) all on his own.

I love the numbers he's getting these days! He's looking really good!
 
Djamila said:
It's better to walk him down the dosing scale - 0.75, 0.5, 0.25, drop, and then off instead of cutting him off all at once and putting it all on his pancreas to handle.
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So have I screwed this up already?

I didn't know what to do. I skipped last night because his BG had been so low on his +8 (111) that I fed him. Then when I did his PMPS it still wasn't all that high considering the carby foods (171). My assumption was that the meal was still in his system and affecting his BG.

I've been told all along that a little high is better than too low.

I was fully prepared for an AMPS today in the mid-200s and wouldn't have thought twice about dosing him with that. But when I got something in the mid-100s - plus he was giving me a hard time about eating again at first. He finally started eating about half an hour after testing. He's been so picky lately I was worried about him not having enough food in his system for even .5U.

Even though he did eat, I'm not sure it was much more than 3/4 of the can before I left for work.
 
shelaghc said:
So have I screwed this up already?
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No, not after two cycles. For some kitties it will take a couple of cycles to get back on track, others will just jump back into their regular pattern without missing a beat. You just don't want skipping to become your regular go-to for these things unless his numbers are demanding it.

I agree that too low is bad, but again, Jester's data doesn't indicate that going too low was a concern at this point. It is something to watch for as his insulin needs continue to diminish, but at this point he still isn't showing greens very often, and when he does they are nice high greens, so he's safe around this dose level at this point in time.

Don't worry about it for today, it's just something to keep in mind going forward. Let us know how it goes at the vet today!
 
Djamila said:
No, not after two cycles. For some kitties it will take a couple of cycles to get back on track, others will just jump back into their regular pattern without missing a beat. You just don't want skipping to become your regular go-to for these things unless his numbers are demanding it.
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So going forward is it generally better to give Jester even as little as .25u given similar circumstances?

Thanks for hand-holding me on this.
 
Something is better than nothing for sure. I tend to try to hold the dose as close to normal as possible unless something is really dramatically different. So in that case, I think I would have gone with 0.5 or the normal 0.75 since 168 is in your normal range. It is tricky to know how to manage it when they are wiggling down the dosing scale like this, especially when we have to leave for work! :bighug:
 
I agree with Djamila. What you want to do is look at your SS and see what you've done before in similar circumstances. If the data is recent, and especially if you have mid cycle numbers to see what happened, you can give similar doses to what you did before and be fairly confident in what will happen.
 
Rachel said:
What you want to do is look at your SS and see what you've done before in similar circumstances.
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Frankly, I haven't had similar circumstances on this. One of the issues is how much he isn't eating. When he eats nearly a full can of catfood - as he has in the past - there's no question about his dosing.
But lately it's taking me nearly two hours to get him to eat less than what he used to eat.

This morning his AMPS was a lovely 141. On Djamilla's recommendation, I gave him a wee tiny dosage of just .25.

Food-wise, after two different cans and following him around all morning, I think he finally might have eaten about 3/4 can. But there was no guarantee that was going to happen before I left. And I quite literally spent the majority of my time trying to get him to eat.

Also, one thing he's doing, that he hasn't in ages, is going under the table. He will eat if I warm the food, put it under his nose, and continually scoop it around in the bowl (and occasionally stroke him encouragingly). But this is so close to last fall when he stopped eating completely that it's scaring me a bit.
 
shelaghc said:
Frankly, I haven't had similar circumstances on this. One of the issues is how much he isn't eating. When he eats nearly a full can of catfood - as he has in the past - there's no question about his dosing.
But lately it's taking me nearly two hours to get him to eat less than what he used to eat.

This morning his AMPS was a lovely 141. On Djamilla's recommendation, I gave him a wee tiny dosage of just .25.

Food-wise, after two different cans and following him around all morning, I think he finally might have eaten about 3/4 can. But there was no guarantee that was going to happen before I left. And I quite literally spent the majority of my time trying to get him to eat.

Also, one thing he's doing, that he hasn't in ages, is going under the table. He will eat if I warm the food, put it under his nose, and continually scoop it around in the bowl (and occasionally stroke him encouragingly). But this is so close to last fall when he stopped eating completely that it's scaring me a bit.
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I wonder if he has nausea or needs an appetite stimulant?
 
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Kris & Teasel said:
I wonder if he has nausea or need an appetite stimulant?
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Good question. But he's also been sneezing and has a history of upper respiratory infections, so it could simply be that the food isn't as interesting to him.

When I warm the food a bit, it seems to make him more interested.

While I do have an appetite stimulant from last fall, I hesitate to give him meds for the wrong thing.

If I had thought of it this morning, I would have offered him some of his dried salmon treats. He goes crazy over those. He also *really* likes YA Mature and I have some of that in sample packages. But changing his foods drastically is also a gamble as he has a habit of not eating at all if I try to change what he eats too much.
 
shelaghc said:
Good question. But he's also been sneezing and has a history of upper respiratory infections, so it could simply be that the food isn't as interesting to him.

When I warm the food a bit, it seems to make him more interested.

While I do have an appetite stimulant from last fall, I hesitate to give him meds for the wrong thing.

If I had thought of it this morning, I would have offered him some of his dried salmon treats. He goes crazy over those. He also *really* likes YA Mature and I have some of that in sample packages. But changing his foods drastically is also a gamble as he has a habit of not eating at all if I try to change what he eats too much.
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Re meds: most people here would say try an anti-nausea med first (e. Cerenia) before an appetite stimulant.
 
shelaghc said:
Is that OTC?

edit - he's not vomiting. The website says it's for that.
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No - it's vet prescription med. It's also good for nausea. Others on FDMB have success using ondansetron, a human anti-nausea med for chemo patients. Brand name is Zofran, generic is much cheaper. Vet needs to write a prescription for a human pharmacy to fill.
 
If he likes YAZ, and you can save up to buy a bag, that might be a great alternative to help with the reduced appetite! I never recommend dry food - except for when a kitty is just flat out refusing to eat - and then you just feed whatever you have to feed to keep them eating!
 
Could be a food strike too. Gracie is currently on a strike, but it's okay. Going to the store on my way to work.
Even IF he's always liked it . . . our felines can be persnickety at times for no reason.

It could also be that maybe he just doesn't feel good, or a weather change maybe? I'm not sure how the weather is there, but here in Sacramento . . . it went from 80's to 60's to 50's in a week. I know I didn't like it.
 
Djamila said:
If he likes YAZ, and you can save up to buy a bag, that might be a great alternative to help with the reduced appetite! I never recommend dry food - except for when a kitty is just flat out refusing to eat - and then you just feed whatever you have to feed to keep them eating!
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I miss the days of leaving a bowl of dry food out. I know, that is my inner laziness talking!
 
Djamila said:
If he likes YAZ, and you can save up to buy a bag, that might be a great alternative to help with the reduced appetite! I never recommend dry food - except for when a kitty is just flat out refusing to eat - and then you just feed whatever you have to feed to keep them eating!
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I just worry about any changes. When he makes the decision to change what he's eating that's one thing. But giving him something else and hoping it works out is freakin' scary.

Plus the vet said he seems a bit dehydrated.
 
That is the rub with dry food. They love it, but it is so water depleted that any cat eating dry food is dehydrated.

You can do sub-Q fluids at home to help with the dehydration if the vet is concerned about it. There are YouTube videos and folks around here who have done it and can help talk you through it.
 
Djamila said:
That is the rub with dry food. They love it, but it is so water depleted that any cat eating dry food is dehydrated.

You can do sub-Q fluids at home to help with the dehydration if the vet is concerned about it. There are YouTube videos and folks around here who have done it and can help talk you through it.
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He's not there yet on the sub-q.

And I'm hoping I didn't just piss him off. He negated the SNAP fPL / Spec fPL Tests saying the next tests would be for:
"Next tests are for blood counts, pancreatitis and Feluk"​

I replied that the snap/spec tests are for pancreatitis.

Still waiting to hear back from DCIN about any help they might be able to give me.

Now I think I'm getting a panic attack about this whole thing.
I can feel my heart pounding in my chest.

Too much of everything all over the place on top of getting nervous that the vet might not appreciate me telling him there's no way that Jester could have feluk.
 
Deep breaths... and lots of hugs to you! :bighug:

Since the vet is making you pay now anyway, I wonder if another vet might be less stressful for you so you aren’t worrried about hurting his feelings? Or if it would be more stressful to find someone new?

Make sure you’re taking care of yourself right now. I know when Sam gets sick, I have to be extra careful about getting my own rest and emotional breaks so I don’t fall apart.

It’s just one step at a time on all of this.
 
Djamila said:
Deep breaths... and lots of hugs to you! :bighug:
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Thanks. I just wish there was someone around here that gave a crap about me. There's no one I can call on or who would just call me anywhere near me even knowing all I've been dealing with.
Djamila said:
Since the vet is making you pay now anyway, I wonder if another vet might be less stressful for you so you aren’t worrried about hurting his feelings? Or if it would be more stressful to find someone new?
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He's close by, he still isn't charging me full price, and there aren't a lot of vets near to me who deal with diabetic kitties. And by and large he's a compassionate man. He's never asked for a dime to care for Bastian despite knowing I have gofundme money he could have asked for.
I think I may just need to convey how stressed out this is getting me. (I hope.)
Djamila said:
Make sure you’re taking care of yourself right now. I know when Sam gets sick, I have to be extra careful about getting my own rest and emotional breaks so I don’t fall apart.
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Unfortunately there's no one but me to do this. And having a new job only adds to the stress.
 
We totally get that. Remember, you're NOT alone with this. We're not physically there, but we're here for you. We know what it's like, and sometimes having a place you can vent a bit helps.

Sounds like the vet and you have a pretty good understanding. I'm sure if you let him know how you're feeling he'll understand. Vets really do seem to understand how we pet parents feel. They see us at our most freaked out after all! Maybe talk to him and just let him know that you're worried and upset and you really want to do these tests just to rule it out so you don't keep worrying about it? My vet was usually willing to listen to me when I explained why I wanted to do certain things.

You're not alone in that. Even though I have someone here with me, I was treating Gypsy alone. I pretty much handle medical issues with the kitties on my own...it's hard. BUT that doesn't mean you can't take a little time to yourself. Every day, I walk for an hour. It's helpful for me to get out of the house for an hour and just get some fresh air and exercise. Sometimes, taking an afternoon to go to a movie or do something else fun can help. Remember, you don't have to be there 24/7. Taking even an hour for yourself to do something you enjoy will really help you get into a better headspace.
 
And just to make things even better tonight, on .5U Jester's fasting +4 was 120 - even with a full can of carby shreds.

Dare I hope for the R word?
 
shelaghc said:
Thanks. I just wish there was someone around here that gave a crap about me. There's no one I can call on or who would just call me anywhere near me even knowing all I've been dealing with.
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We emigrated from UK to NZ . There is no-one around here for me either. Husband is with me but I am not sure he gets just how intensive this all is. How grinding, emotionally exhausting , stressful and worrying all this can be. He mostly doesn't get to see what goes on and what needs to be done.

We're here and we get it.

:bighug:
 
It might not fix anything, but at least it eases your mind a bit for tonight. I hope you and Jester (and the rest of the crew) sleep well tonight!
 
shelaghc said:
Not that this fixes everything, but Jester ate an entire can of shreds this evening, no sneezing all night, and he took a nap on the couch - he hasn't done that in days.
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I think cats like humans . . . when we eat a bunch of carbs we (well, some of us) go into a carb coma. I don't know about you, but if I eat a bunch of carbs . . . I'm ready for a nap shortly after.

I hate that feeling, and for the most part I'm good about avoiding it.
 
Teenuh said:
I think cats like humans . . . when we eat a bunch of carbs we (well, some of us) go into a carb coma. I don't know about you, but if I eat a bunch of carbs . . . I'm ready for a nap shortly after.

I hate that feeling, and for the most part I'm good about avoiding it.
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Tbh that was more about Jester getting on the couch. He hadn't done that in a while.
 
Well.....

AMPS was 162 so I *thought* Jester would be okay with just .5U even though he only ate a little over half a can total of food this morning. He was back to being hard to feed again.

PMPS - 117.

No insulin for Jester tonight. And I'm worried about how low he might have gone during the day.

Seriously thinking no more than .25U tomorrow no matter what.
 
I think that sounds like a good plan. If I'm counting right, you're near +3 right now. If you feel up for it, a mid-cycle tonight might be interesting to see how he's doing with no insulin. If you just need the night off though, that's okay. Sometimes we just need a break. He's getting some really nice numbers right now!
 
Djamila said:
I think that sounds like a good plan. If I'm counting right, you're near +3 right now. If you feel up for it, a mid-cycle tonight might be interesting to see how he's doing with no insulin. If you just need the night off though, that's okay. Sometimes we just need a break. He's getting some really nice numbers right now!
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I was having panic attacks yesterday. Tonight I'm taking a shower, seeing how much food I can get into him, and making a hot cup of tea.

Monday we have another vet appointment to try to figure this out.

This evening at choir someone suggested that since Jester is 13 years old I might want to rethink all the tests.

That didn't go over very well with me.
 
shelaghc said:
I was having panic attacks yesterday. Tonight I'm taking a shower, seeing how much food I can get into him, and making a hot cup of tea.

Monday we have another vet appointment to try to figure this out.

This evening at choir someone suggested that since Jester is 13 years old I might want to rethink all the tests.

That didn't go over very well with me.
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Individuals who don't have pets just don't understand. They never will. They would never say that about their own child right?
I consider Gracie my child. I will do everything I can to keep her healthy, safe and happy!

One of my friends spent 3k on her hen last year.
 
@Djamila
AMPS was 152.
He's being hard to feed this AM, although compared to some days it's not so bad.

And I found a blob of mucous in one of his eyes.

One of my biggest concerns is that I'm supposed to go away for a weekend soon.

My catsitter is very nervous about the idea of giving Jester his insulin and the feeding issues are more than anyone could expect a non-family member to deal with.

I need this mini-vacation so much and I have a roommate who's counting on me for cost sharing .

I'm just worried that I won't be able to leave Jester with all these problems.
 
Sometimes kitties just get little eye goobers. Especially during shedding/allergy season. See if it continues to be a problem before you worry about that.

What is the date when you're leaving for your vacation? How long will you be gone?
 
Djamila said:
Sometimes kitties just get little eye goobers. Especially during shedding/allergy season. See if it continues to be a problem before you worry about that.
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Actually Jesters prone to URIs. The mucous might be an indication of that.

Going away Memorial Day weekend from Friday until Monday night.
Taking off an extra day in case Jester's dosing needs to be readjusted for my work schedule.
 
shelaghc said:
Actually Jesters prone to URIs. The mucous might be an indication of that.

Going away Memorial Day weekend from Friday until Monday night.
Taking off an extra day in case Jester's dosing needs to be readjusted for my work schedule.
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Do what you can to set it up in a way that allows you to get away for a break. We need these periodically to preserve our sanity. :)
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Do what you can to set it up in a way that allows you to get away for a break. We need these periodically to preserve our sanity. :)
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The problems are that my catsitter is nervous about giving Jester his insulin and I'm worried about how difficult Jester is lately to feed.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Do what you can to set it up in a way that allows you to get away for a break. We need these periodically to preserve our sanity. :)
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I agree with Kris. Managing FD solo can be exhausting itself. If you add in some work stuff and the ups and downs of life . . . it can be overwhelming. We all deserve a break.

Maybe your cat sitter could come practice prior to you leaving? I used to practice myself with an orange.

My cat sitter also has a cat with FD. I'm going to have her test while I am gone on my break. I've never seen her test, but I asked her to come over prior to my trip. I want to see that she could test Gracie without any problems. Even though I know she can, it just gives me a little more reassurance. Maybe consider something like that to help ease your mind a little.
 
Memorial Day is a month away still, and Jester is in a dynamic phase of diabetes right now with his values, eating, and insulin needs changing. I’m afraid you’re not going to be able to figure this out for a couple of weeks still. It’s possible that in a month, Jester might not need insulin anymore. It’s also possible that he’ll head back up and be able to take a consistent dose without worry.

For now, I would suggest inviting the sitter over, demonstrating the injections, and maybe having her practice drawing the dose. You’ve never mentioned Jester being difficult to inject so I would imagine once she sees how you do it, the fears will calm.

Then you just have to wait until closer to the date and see how he’s doing. The final decisions can’t be made until the days right before you leave.
 
Djamila said:
I would suggest inviting the sitter over, demonstrating the injections, and maybe having her practice drawing the dose. You’ve never mentioned Jester being difficult to inject so I would imagine once she sees how you do it, the fears will calm.
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He did come over two nights ago to watch me do the whole thing.
Even afterward, when I said all I would need would be the insulin injection. Even simplified it telling him if Jester misses a dose it's not critical by any means.
He's still nervous.

I'm considering getting one of those pet versions of a nanny cam so, if he feels like he wants me to oversee from a distance I can do that. Not that I can afford something like that with all the medical testings.....
 
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