02/03/18 Texas Gizmo PMPS=214, +2=105 (fed early), +3=101, +4.5=69, +5.5=100

02/02

AMPS=178

Ate ok last night. Had to switch out food and coax a bit. Didn't eat his +6.5. Going to test for ketones in a bit.

Ate all PS fuds

Vet office opens at 8am and will call as soon as they are open and make appointment.

Happy Caturday.

 

I'm glad Gizmo ate for you this morning. I hope you can get him in to see the vet today. Sending prayers.

 

Hi Lizzie. I had to revisit your thread from yesterday as I missed the part about the suspected UTI. Glad that he showed you what was the issue by going out of the box. Glad you are going to have him seen today. Keep us posted.

 

I have much anxiety - I just hope the vet will listen. If I have seen the vet that I will see today, it will only have been 1 x before. I am going to the old/existing vet offices. I am just not prepared enough to try someone new. He is acting ok but not great. He did come and get some lovin's, numbers not looking too bad but I really think something is off (and NOT panc).

Shouldn't his numbers be higher if he has an infection or is that not always the case? I did go ahead and give him a dose of pain meds last night @ +4.5 (I know UTI's in humans are painful but couldn't find anything on feline UTI's being painful).

+2=136
Ket-"Lo" (negative)

 

I hope you find out what's wrong with Gizmo. ECID and maybe the numbers aren't reflecting any possible infection.

 

Hope you can get in to the vet easily this AM, and hopefully it is just a UTI causing all Gizmo's recent problems.

 

I would think they would be higher but maybe they would be lower without a UTI. . I don't have any experience with UTI along with diabetes.

Someone here just recently had a kitty with a UTI and I can't remember who.

 

Asia’s had a couple UTIs, one landed her in the ER on Christmas. I can say, without a doubt, it was indeed painful, that was obvious, and the vet there said so too. Her second UTI, which was still the first one, not all the way gone, the new vet I had said UTIs aren’t painful in cats. I love how they know exactly how cats feel inside.

I hope the pain meds help, the vet helps, and you figure out what is going on with Gizmo so you can squash it.

 

And get well prayers to Gizmo....and a peaceful heart and mind to you , dear Lizzie

 

Back from vets. Sever pancreatitis, anemia. Copy of labs and diagnostics/treatment/medication summary >>here<<

I will get them entered on the labs tab as soon as I can. It was a horrible visit. He is not happy and very stressed. So am I. Vet office was OK but $$.

Not sure if @Marje and Gracie is around but would really appreciate input on the labs and visit summary, meds and follow up plan (on the same scan as the labs - last couple of pages). They are running urine culture in-house and I will start the AB I already have (Veraflox)

Oh, and he has fleas - where and how he got these I have no idea.

Anyone use Multi Advantage? I need to give him the dose soon. We have to treat the house tomorrow. Vet suspects that may be contributing to the anemia (we have NEVER seen a flea on him or on us or in the house).

 

Marje was leaving town today and expected to be gone for 2 weeks.
Poor Gizmo. Sorry it was a hard visit on both of you. Hope the AB helps him feel better quickly.

 

Thank you for letting me know.

 

I'm so sorry. I use Advantage II on all of my cats. Fleas can be carried into the house by people. I've had to treat my cats for fleas without seeing any fleas. One of them started biting and scratching herself a lot, but I didn't see fleas. I finally found one flea by using a flea comb.

 

Where do you apply it? I haven't given him anything like this since he was a kitten. That was Revolution and I applied it to the back of the neck - same?

 

Lizzie, I am so sorry for vet report but at least now you know and can devise a plan . When we had a flea problem ( brought in on visiting family’s clothing) I also changed and washed all kitty bedding every day, flea combed them ,vacuumed/swept all floors , especially along baseboards . Big prayers coming you and Gizmo’s way

 

Going to treat the house tomorrow. 75% of the house is bare concrete. Will treat one room (guest room where he isn't allowed) let it dry and move him and LB and feeder in there and then treat the rest of the house. Weather will be better tomorrow so we can open up the windows to air out/help dry.

 

The hematocrit is getting worrisome, under 20% is what I remember with one of my CRF kitties that we had to start erythropoietin injections. But, I don't mean to suggest that is what Gizmo needs, there are other causes for anemia, but the kidney values are high (BUN and creatinine), and phosphorus is too high as well. Interestingly, I remember reading on Tanya's CRF that even fleas can be a cause of anemia. Sorry, it's been a long while since I was involved with kidney issues and anemia, so Im going off of memory, hope someone can give you some more input.

Did the vet have any comments or suggestions to treat the anemia?

 

Good plan ! On bare floors I LIGHTLY sprinkled a light film of food grade diatomaceous earth along baseboards ...dissolves those little suckers Did I mention that I HATE FLEAS !!

 

You apply Advantage-Multi to the back of the neck/head.


The only experience I've had with anemia worsened by fleas was a friend's cat that had been poisoned (most likely with rat poison). In that case, it was imperative to start flea treatment immediately. With a low hemocrit, every drop of blood counts.

Sending vines that the meds do the trick.

 

Lizzie, just curious but how did vet diagnose fleas ? Was there flea dander at base of Gizmo’s tail ? Has he been scratching? Did vet say anything about anemia and kidney possible connection??? My heart and prayers really go out to you

 

Lizzie

I’m on my way out of town but should get a chance to peek at this later today for you.

 

Poor Gizmo! Pancreatic, anemia and Fleas! Crazy, and you didn't even see him scratching? Did the vet see a flea on him or what they think was flea dirt?

Did they suspect a UTI as well and is that what the AB is for?

 

I'm so sorry Gizmo has so much going on. With regards to BGs....things like infections and p-titis don't always make them go up. In fact, when Trix had p-titis, she actually went OTJ.

Many hugs and prayers....

 

Can you put it on carpet too?

I HATE ALL PARASITES.

Visual.

Got to get the panc flare under control and him eating/feeling better before all that.

I really appreciate it. I am sorry to disturb your "out of town".

He has been scratching and itching and grooming more for months. I even posted about it here (and a video). Never thought it could be fleas. No other pets, he is strictly indoors.

Not sure. Doing a culture. The last one was neg after 72 hours. I think this is JIC.

They want to do an ultrasound and GI panel (another $600+). AND they want to do some enzyme test for his heart because of the murmurer and blood pressure.

I am not sure how much more I am willing to put him through.

 

Sorry I logged off and just now got back on. Yes, it goes on the back of the neck so he can't wash it off and ingest it. I'm glad @Red & Rover (GA) posted the video. Sending prayers.

 

Lizzie, you can put diatomaceous ( food grade) on carpet but I learned the hard way to BARELY sprinkle a light film just along baseboards . Fleas often go for the perimeters of a room . Sprinkle in lightly and work into carpet , shove under baseboard with finger tips . I barely put it on whole carpet 2 years ago and am still vacuuming it up . Less truly is more . Saying dead flea prayers for you and Gizmo

 

PMPS=214

History:
AMPS=178, +2=136 (Ket-Lo/Neg), +4=90, +11=233

Ate all his PS foods. I am backing off the MMR and suplements for now. Got to get him to eat and get meds into him. Waiting till +2 (6:30p) to give meds hasn't worked out too well with him eating his +2.5 (7p) so I am going to give around 5:30 (+1). He will get AB, Cerenia, Cypro and Buprenex in the PM and Cypro and Buprenex AM.

 

I am not concerned about the carpet. It should have been gone years ago (and most of it is). Where can I purchase it? I am pretty sure I can get it through Amazon but would like to get this done this weekend.

 

I got mine at an animal feed supply store. Just make sure it is NOT the grade that is used in swimming pools as is not safe to ingest. You want food grade like this one Chewy.com

 

I am just not buying he has fleas. He sleeps on a white towel both upstairs and down. I have NEVER seen any flea dirt or dried blood on either of the white towels. Neither of us have been biten and hubby is allrgic and reacts badly to bites. I will treat but I am wondering if he got the flea from the vet office when he got there.

 

Lizzie, I’m so sorry it was a traumatic visit for Gizmo. It’s such a sad balancing act that we need to take them somewhere and do unpleasant things to them to keep them well sometimes.

I’m not much help with the labs, like Marje is, but since Asia is dealing with some of the same things, I can give my 2 cents on some of that. Did vet suggest starting phos binders? I’m using aluminum hydroxide with Asia and it has been working fairly quickly and she doesn’t taste it at all in her food. Why don’t you want to do sub q fluids at home (totally your prerogative, but just asking, they are a big help for nausea and generally just perk them up)? I know his heart is a concern too, tricky. I split up Asia’s fluids so it’s less amount at any one time. Are you going to check b12 levels? You can give oral b12 and b multi vitamins that can help with the anemia if it’s not too far advanced, he seems to be on the cusp of that number from what I recall, I’m sure treating the fleas will help here as well, especially if you think it’s been a problem for a decent while.

I hope he is feeling better soon and you can address these things promptly, I know you’re the best bean for Gizmo and I’m sorry you have to go through this right now.

 

No. Primary concern is getting him eating. I am wondering if the phos is higher due to the FF that he has been getting the past few days. His phos was 5.5 on 11/27/17. His highest before that was 5 in Dec 2016. He only gets low phos foods (the exception was the FF this past week).

Because he will fight me on this. It will be a bad. I did sub-q for 2 years with my Sweet Missy cat and have no issues actually administering, it his reaction that has me concerned. They gave him sub-q fluids today. It was a nightmare. Even sedated he was trying to bite and scratch all while hissing and growling at everyone. It was horrible.

He has been getting B-12 and B-complex for over a year mixed with his food.

If I missed something let me know.

 

Got my food grade (will be white in color) at health food store . Use less than you think , it is very fine and can get in both Gizmo and your nose . I would start applying at baseboards as we talked about earlier . Is very fine powder and I would not let him be in the room when you apply it . I just hate you and Gizmo are going through this, Lizzie . Praying for you to have peace and wisdom and for sweet Gizmo to see great improvement by tomorrow

 

Thanks Beth (btw-that is what my family all calls me ) everywhere else I am Liz (long story).

Crazy cat - I tell ya, he is trying to kill me. He ate well, finished all his PS food. Waited an hour and gave him his Cerenia, cypro (pills) and AB (liquid). Fought me the whole time (I think he is just done being messed with today) put him down and he went to his bed area and I straightened up the table, rinsed the AB doser and looked over and he was sitting by his feeder, waiting for his food .

 

What a little turkey He’s letting you know he’s still in charge, Lizzie

 

@Stacy & Asia

How often do you give fluids? How much each time?

 

He wouldn't eat . He acts hungry. I added some sprinkles and he ate 3/4.

 

I think they prescribe them based on the creatinine number? Originally, my vet said 100mL 2-3 times a week, her numbers got worse and he said 100mL every day. I'm not comfortable doing that because she likely has a heart condition and I don't want to overwhelm her heart. At the same time, I want to keep her hydrated because she really needs it. So I decided to give 50mL twice a day, less at a time is supposed to be a little better, heart wise. Sometimes I only do 50mL once a day. I'm not rigid about it because she has other things going on too, including a kidney infection that may or may not be temporarily inflating her kidney values.

 

[QUOTE="LizzieInTexas,

How often do you give fluids? How much each time?[/QUOTE]

I'm glad you are thinking about this. If he is dehydrated, and vet recommended fluids, I think that would help him. It sounds like it might be hard to keep him still. Would you consider a harness? I can hunt for the link. The other thing that might help is a larger needle and longer line (so it can be higher and dispense faster).

Sending nothing but the best healing prayers for you and Gizmo!

 

I just saw your other post too. That's tough, if he's not a patient patient, guh! How long have you been giving the cerenia? Just started today? Did they give him a cerenia shot at the vet? I found the shot they gave Asia at the vet worked almost right away, I got some compounded in a liquid to give at home and they didn't seem to kick in. I feel like you have to get ahead of nausea for it to work. You can also look in to getting ondansetron, it can be given with cerenia, and more frequently than cerenia. One might work better for him than the other.

Maybe he will feel s bit better after he detoxes from the FF? I was told high phos values can make them nauseous as well. I think Asia's nausea was likely from panc/kidney things more than phosphorous though because her p values were higher a few weeks prior and she didn't have that issue. I hope he's eating better for you soon.

 

I am more concerned that this may be the fact with him. They want to do another ultrasound to "confirm" kidney infection - I asked - couldn't we just treat with the assumption that he has one? The last US kinda suggested that it could be a possibility.

The answer was no - we don't do that - I can't think of a reason why. It isn't like the US will tell you what KIND of infection even if they could tell that he has one. That is a lot of faith to put into $350 test (another in less than 3 months).

I also discovered that the Cosequin is made with "shellfish" and am wondering about the possibility of the phos level in it. I have been giving in for about 45 days - quite a significant increase in phos since 11/27 and that is the only new supplement. hmmm.

 

Thinking about it. I have the link to the harness somewhere. He was 5% dehydrated today (not sure how they calculate that) - she called that mild (IDK). It is all in the scan if you want to read it. It is in the link above^^

I am not sure about the vet office and if they are just trying to get $$ out of a new client or if they really think all these tests are absolutely necessary. It isn't like his history and labs (and previous US) have not already indicated all of this. He isn't old but he is 15 with a lot of issues and he gets so stressed out going to the vet. I did take all his history and previous labs with me so they had those.

 

Yes. I read the vet report. IMHO fluids are requied based on what I read. Since he gets stressed out at the vet office, I thought he would do better with fluids at home. I'm so glad you know how to do this and can determine what is best.

Since they gave fluids today, how is it being absorbed? If he is/was dehydrated, I'd expect it to be quickly absorbed (no buldge).

 

He has a pooch on his side - poor guy is wobby from the anaemia (assuming that is what it is from bc they didn't think it was from arthritis), then he is a little lopsided from the fluids and on top of that the cypro and pain meds - he is all messed up.



Lol.

 

Breaking my heart,Gizmo Tons of prayers for your quick healing , sweet boy and a peaceful heart for your momma

 

Off/on for a week or so. I was runing low end didn't have a vet to get any from. Knew whomever would require a visit.

No. And I am not sure why. Hind site 20/20. Too much info too fast and couldn't think fast enough.

Have it in house. Vet said discontinue as it doesn't do much for him(??)

Trying my best. None tonight (so far).

Another thing the report states he has severe had her and mild gingivitis (he had full dental cleaning almost exactly 1 year ago (02/15/17)).

They also, almost as a foot note, added that there was puss in his urine (wth?) (Page 9 of scan) Pyuria. I had to ask what that was. They didn' even mention it before I asked. But no bacteria in sample.

 

Hugs and more hugs.

 

+4.5=69

Absolutely would not eat. Anything. Finally broke out the MC (Chick Magnet) and got him to eat about 1-1/2 tablespoon. He is so doped up he can hardly keep his head up. I def think 1/2 cypro is too much for him. I can't even give him his evening pain meds because I am scared to death.

 

Baby food ? Licked off your fingers ? Syringed ? Those are my end-of-my-rope go to’s .

 

Well since I did get a little MC into him a little less stressed. Baby food doesn't have any carbs - correct? I was worried about the 69 @ +4.5.

Food seemed to help a bit with the dopeyness. At least he isn't laying with his face planted down into the towel.

 

Ultrasound also won't "confirm" kidney infection. It can give them a better idea that one exists, but from what I understand they would have to take a sample from their kidney to really find out for certain and what it is, I don't think it's really done (and seems really invasive and unnecessary anyway). If he has ever had a UTI, the urinalysis results should say which antibiotics are a good match for that. Again, not a perfect science, but that is how my vet decided on which antibiotic to use for this highly suspected kidney infection.

I think they reason why is because they don't want to give antibiotics unnecessarily? I hope that's the reason anyway. Has he had UTIs in the past? Why do you suspect a kidney infection?

I haven't used cosequin, is it a large amount you add? It seems unlikely that it could be significant enough if it's a tiny pill or something, but you never know.

Did you think the onda was working? I don't see how they could make the determination that it wasn't helping him unless it was your observation, honestly.

Please eat, Gizmo.

 

That was the proBNP test for the heart. That's a good one to start with. And will give you an idea if you need further diagnostics like an echo. Heart issues can impact appetite.

The amount of fluids is based partly on cat weight. Then there are other factors in there - for Neko that was her heart which eventually couldn't take any fluids. When they start suggesting fluids depends on the creatitine. If you can't give subq fluids (or can't for heart reasons like I had to deal with), try to add as much water as possible to his meals.

The potassium is getting lowish. Did the vet mention anything about that? That can also make them feel icky.

Tons of feel better vines on the way.

 

Here’s what I see, some of which, others have noted:

• Pretty high BP. It said “deferred” on the amlodipine pending resolution of pancreatitis. Did you defer it? If he were mine, I’d get him on the amlodipine yesterday. Even with stress, that BP is way too high. He can stroke out, go blind, and high BP is harder on the kidneys, etc. Side effects of the drug are minimal in most cats. I didn’t see any in my Gus.
• Lucy is correct...he needs something more for the anemia like Aranasp which is better than many other erythropoietin stimulating drugs as the chances of building antibodies are much less. He will feel better, too.
• P has to come way down and K way up. Recent studies have shown niacinimide (scroll down to last paragraph) can help bring down P levels. I’d see if you can give it and the binders. His P x Ca is way too high....gotta get down the P ASAP.
• For his K, the potassium chews might not be working well enough. Perhaps consider NOW potassium gluconate and ask the vet about dose.
• The cardiopet Pro BNP is a blood test. Given he’s part Maine Coone and he has a murmur, it’s not a bad idea to get it next time they draw blood. .....although the BP needs to be under control as IDEXX states, “severe azotemia, cardiac arrhythmias, systemic hypertension, and pulmonary hypertension may elevate Cardiopet® proBNP levels.” He doesn’t have severe azotemia.
• Try only giving him a sliver of Cypro and see how he does. Vets overdose it.
• He’s just now at the point to consider giving subq fluids. As Stacey said, you have to be careful. I’d work on getting down the BP immediately, do a BNP, and then decide fluids.

I hope this helps. With the high P, I’m not surprised he doesn’t want to eat.

 

Oh Lizzie - poor Gizmo, and poor you! This sounds really, really hard... Hugs for both of you:

Is this the harness you're thinking of? I looked it up ages ago when @Wendy&Neko mentioned it in a post:
Is it the EZI IV harness, Wendy? https://www.ezivharness.com/

 

Lizzie, sending heaps of vines for you and Gizmo. You’ve both been through so much. Hang in there and feel better, Giz, for you and your mama. ❤️