? 1/28 - Moose - AMPS: 197, +1: 148, +5: 72, +8: 125

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Moose (GA) & Rae

Moose (GA) & Rae

Member Since 2017
Gave honey + LC wet food at +4. Moose is acting normal, no symptoms of hypoglycemia. His numbers had gotten pretty low yesterday as well before I went to work. I am checking his blood sugar every 30 minutes at this time.

Reduced insulin last night from 2U to 1.75U. Should I reduce again this evening? Reduce by another .25? Or more?

Thank you!
 
We don’t usually recommend back to back reductions. The depot is likely responsible. Feed hc and test again in 15-20 minutes.
 
I know that back-to-back reductions aren't recommended, but I think I'd argue for one here.

Adding to what @Susan&Felix says above, I'm not convinced that today's lows were the result of the depot from the 2.0U. The pattern of shots over the last few days has been 2,2,ns,ns,2,ns,2,2,ns,1.75,1.75. Moose has dropped below 68 several times since testing started (it's obscured on the spreadsheet, which is coded for human meters), even with all the skipped shots.

I'd be inclined to just take the reduction here for safety, and go from there-- you can always increase again.
 
Hello Rae and Moose - I was reading back some of your previous posts: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/help-hypoglycemic.190217/
and it sounds like you were started on too high a dose for the SLGS you want to follow. With dry food in the picture, the starting dose should have been 1.0 unit. It's much easier to start at a lower dose and work your way up than to have to constantly be battling low numbers. You've had to skip a lot of shots lately, which means the dose is too high. Since you are following SLGS (please add to the signature as it helps us help you), I would reduce tonight. Your choice whether you want to go to 1.5 units or start back at the beginning with 1.0 unit. However, if there were any ketones in the picture on diagnosis, I would go with 1.5 units.

BTW - love the pic with the bow tie. :)
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Hello Rae and Moose - I was reading back some of your previous posts: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/help-hypoglycemic.190217/
and it sounds like you were started on too high a dose for the SLGS you want to follow. With dry food in the picture, the starting dose should have been 1.0 unit. It's much easier to start at a lower dose and work your way up than to have to constantly be battling low numbers. You've had to skip a lot of shots lately, which means the dose is too high. Since you are following SLGS (please add to the signature as it helps us help you), I would reduce tonight. Your choice whether you want to go to 1.5 units or start back at the beginning with 1.0 unit. However, if there were any ketones in the picture on diagnosis, I would go with 1.5 units.

BTW - love the pic with the bow tie. :)
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Hi Wendy! Thank you for the response. I will fill in a few blanks, hopefully to help out a bit. Moose has been on 2 1/2 units for...about a year? I agree, had I known about SLGS previously then I would have questioned the high dose. I supposed it's because he was not a new diabetic that the vet recommended it. He numbers remained pretty high, and I would do a curve every few weeks. I would always report the curve to my vet as I did not have the information that I have now to interpret the curve. Then I switched him to a mix of wet food and dry (he previously could not tolerate wet food..I tried and tried and tried but he would always vomit it up immediately.) I realize now that the switch to a mixture of wet and dry food caused his numbers to drop...but the vet didn't say much about it except to test every few weeks.

I was planning to follow SLGS but decided to switch to TR once I read that it could be done with my work schedule (I didn't think it could before until I read the post.) I do have TR in my signature, let me know if I need to add anything to make it stand out :) Would you recommend the same since I am doing TR?

& thank you! He loves his bowtie!
 
Nan & Amber said:
Oh my goodness-- 42 on an AT2???? :eek:
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Yes :( I didn't realize that first that 42 on AT2 is much lower than 42 on human meter...I'm going to pick up some new strips for my Reli On so that I can start using the human meter again. The vet told me to get the AT2...wish I wouldn't have!
 
Nan & Amber said:
I know that back-to-back reductions aren't recommended, but I think I'd argue for one here.

Adding to what @Susan&Felix says above, I'm not convinced that today's lows were the result of the depot from the 2.0U. The pattern of shots over the last few days has been 2,2,ns,ns,2,ns,2,2,ns,1.75,1.75. Moose has dropped below 68 several times since testing started (it's obscured on the spreadsheet, which is coded for human meters), even with all the skipped shots.

I'd be inclined to just take the reduction here for safety, and go from there-- you can always increase again.
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Thank you for your advice! I am going to pick up some more strips for my Reli On so that I can use my human meter again. Should I reduce again by .25 or even more, .50?
 
Switching to wet from dry can make a HUGE difference. When did you start the transition? It's a useful bit of information to add to the Remarks section of the spreadsheet. I would go down to 1.5 units if you are following TR, because of the skips and possibly impact of food change, depending on when that was.

Sorry about the SLGS vs. TR, I just read the one or two previous posts, not the one where you had changed dosing methods. I do see it now in your signature. Did you just recently start home testing? Just wondering why there is only 10 days of data.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Switching to wet from dry can make a HUGE difference. When did you start the transition? It's a useful bit of information to add to the Remarks section of the spreadsheet. I would go down to 1.5 units if you are following TR, because of the skips and possibly impact of food change, depending on when that was.

Sorry about the SLGS vs. TR, I just read the one or two previous posts, not the one where you had changed dosing methods. I do see it now in your signature. Did you just recently start home testing? Just wondering why there is only 10 days of data.
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Nine months ago is when I started the transition...I have been home testing for a few years now, but just recently started to be active on this forum and using the spreadsheet. The information for the previous curves is all over the place...once I would report the numbers to my vet, I would file the information away...I wasn't very responsible about it as I thought my vet would give me all of the information and advice that I needed. I am going to call the vet's office up and see if I can get a record of the numbers that I reported to her. Then I can fill in the spreadsheet for the previous year. Not sure that I have any of the numbers from 3 years ago though :/
 
You don't need to fill in that much data on the SS! Maybe just put something on the first line of the SS summarizing the history and when he transitioned to wet food. Or put in on the signature. We typically don't look much further back than two weeks anyway. Looks like the food change was long enough ago that should be impacting what you are seeing now, unless the amount of dry vs. wet is changing.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
You don't need to fill in that much data on the SS! Maybe just put something on the first line of the SS summarizing the history and when he transitioned to wet food. Or put in on the signature. We typically don't look much further back than two weeks anyway. Looks like the food change was long enough ago that should be impacting what you are seeing now, unless the amount of dry vs. wet is changing.
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Will do! Sorry, still learning my way around here and what information I need to put where. I appreciate the help.

I did recently (as of last week) transition him over to all wet food from the wet/dry mix so I will notate that. He did have the first hypoglycemic episode (with symptoms) on 1/17/2018 before I transitioned him to all wet food.
 
We don't often see hypo with symptoms here, so that was a significant event! I even caught Neko snoozing in the 20's (human meter). Never trust a cat!

Good job on the food transition, even a little bit of dry can make a huge difference. Just be nice to do it with a little less drama. Hear that Moose?
 
Wendy&Neko said:
We don't often see hypo with symptoms here, so that was a significant event! I even caught Neko snoozing in the 20's (human meter). Never trust a cat!

Good job on the food transition, even a little bit of dry can make a huge difference. Just be nice to do it with a little less drama. Hear that Moose?
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I'm so glad that he did show symptoms! I would have been none the wiser until his next curve. I'm still surprised that he was on 2.5U for so long after the transition to wet food...

20's?! Oh my goodness! Quite a scare, Neko! Thank goodness that you home test!

Haha, I'll relay the message :) Thank you again!!!
 
Hi Rae.

I know you've been a member for a while, but you say you just became active here recently, so I'd like to share with you a post we put together to help new users get comfortable with the forum. It's kind of like an FAQ. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/updated-tips-for-new-members.173572/

If you want to use the Relion, I recommend you stick to it, because the difference between an AT and a human meters varies with how high the reading goes, and there is no direct correlation to help figure it out. Please put a note in the remarks section of your SS when the readings are with AT, if you do plan to switch to the human meter. If you would rather use the AT all the time, it would help to have your SS converted to reflect that (the color coding is different). We have people here that can do that for you, so just let us know.

Great catch on that 42, by the way, and congratulations on the reduction!
 
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
Hi Rae.

I know you've been a member for a while, but you say you just became active here recently, so I'd like to share with you a post we put together to help new users get comfortable with the forum. It's kind of like an FAQ. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/updated-tips-for-new-members.173572/

If you want to use the Relion, I recommend you stick to it, because the difference between an AT and a human meters varies with how high the reading goes, and there is no direct correlation to help figure it out. Please put a note in the remarks section of your SS when the readings are with AT, if you do plan to switch to the human meter. If you would rather use the AT all the time, it would help to have your SS converted to reflect that (the color coding is different). We have people here that can do that for you, so just let us know.

Great catch on that 42, by the way, and congratulations on the reduction!
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Hi there and thank you! I did get a chance to read the FAQ :) Since Moose's hypo episode last week, I have been inundating myself with all of the information on this forum. I'm pretty sure I've read the forum stickies front to back by this point, lol! I may not have retained all of the information though.

I do want to use the Relion. I would still be using it had I not received the advice from my vet to switch to the AlphaTrak2. With the rate that I'm going through strips (the 50 pack I bought last week is almost gone!) I'm happy to go back to the Relion.

Actually, I digress, I was previously using the Bayer Contour but I have a Relion as well. Would the Relion be the better bet?

Also, I do have in the header of my SS sheet right after Moose's name that I use the AlphaTrak2, should I put it in the remarks section as well?

Thank you again! :)
 
Just checking in to see how you and Moose were doing. Man your kitty is on a mission I think! Hope you get that right dose soon so there is less drama.
 
Moose & Rae said:
Also, I do have in the header of my SS sheet right after Moose's name that I use the AlphaTrak2, should I put it in the remarks section as well?
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What I really meant was that if you have switched back and forth at all, be sure to indicate which readings were with which meter. If you went to the AT and stuck with it, then switch to the Relion (or Contour) and stay there, putting the line across where each change happens is fine. Because the ranges for the colors are different, depending on whether it's a human or pet meter, it helps to know you're looking at numbers from an AT, even though the color coding is for a human meter, and vice versa.

I don't blame you a bit for wanting to switch to the human meter. The cost of the AT strips alone is enough to bankrupt anyone. Many vets think you have to use a pet meter, but most here use a human one, and our protocols are written using a human meter. I used a Contour with both my cats, but many here use the Relion, and if you have a Walmart near you, it's super easy to get strips. I bought most of my strips on ebay, because they were very inexpensive there.

I've been on this forum for almost seven years, and I still find stuff I missed when I go back and read the stickies, so don't feel bad! There's a TON of info to digest, and no one gets it all on the first, or even the second read through!
 
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
What I really meant was that if you have switched back and forth at all, be sure to indicate which readings were with which meter. If you went to the AT and stuck with it, then switch to the Relion (or Contour) and stay there, putting the line across where each change happens is fine. Because the ranges for the colors are different, depending on whether it's a human or pet meter, it helps to know you're looking at numbers from an AT, even though the color coding is for a human meter, and vice versa.

I don't blame you a bit for wanting to switch to the human meter. The cost of the AT strips alone is enough to bankrupt anyone. Many vets think you have to use a pet meter, but most here use a human one, and our protocols are written using a human meter. I used a Contour with both my cats, but many here use the Relion, and if you have a Walmart near you, it's super easy to get strips. I bought most of my strips on ebay, because they were very inexpensive there.

I've been on this forum for almost seven years, and I still find stuff I missed when I go back and read the stickies, so don't feel bad! There's a TON of info to digest, and no one gets it all on the first, or even the second read through!
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Oh I see! I have been using the AT2 since he "relapsed" so all of my readings for the last 2 years have been from the AT2. (I have not added all of the data from the last 2 years to the SS, I still need to find all of it...I just posted the most recent information from this year as a starting point.) I will be sure to make a note on the SS when I switch back to the Relion (or Contour.)

I started out using the Contour and wish I had stuck with it. I just felt so frustrated and defeated when he "relapsed" that I was willing to do anything and everything that my *new* vet suggested, along with purchasing the pricey AT2. Albeit I wasn't testing as often when I first started using it, so I didn't realize how costly it could be. Ebay is a good idea for purchasing strips!

Well I just want to thank you for your seven years of advice giving and invaluable information that you have provided! I seriously do not know what I would do without this forum. I don't know how or why I didn't utilize it up until now.
 
Tracey&Jones said:
Just checking in to see how you and Moose were doing. Man your kitty is on a mission I think! Hope you get that right dose soon so there is less drama.
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Much better now! Just checked and 119. Thank you for asking. You and me both! It has been nonstop drama for the last 2 days!! & Moose is just hanging out and enjoying the extra food like nothing is happening while I'm crying in a corner :rolleyes:
 
Moose & Rae said:
I seriously do not know what I would do without this forum. I don't know how or why I didn't utilize it up until now.
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I tell everyone, and I mean it, that the people on this forum saved my Cinco's life. Unfortunately, when I first joined I didn't interact a lot with other members and didn't really use all the tools here. After he fell out of remission, I became much more active and learned so much here that helped not only Cinco, and Harvey when he became diabetic, but all my civvies as well. This is why we stick around after our kitties go into remission or cross the Bridge. We got so much help here, that we feel we have to pay it forward. This really is a family.
 
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
I tell everyone, and I mean it, that the people on this forum saved my Cinco's life. Unfortunately, when I first joined I didn't interact a lot with other members and didn't really use all the tools here. After he fell out of remission, I became much more active and learned so much here that helped not only Cinco, and Harvey when he became diabetic, but all my civvies as well. This is why we stick around after our kitties go into remission or cross the Bridge. We got so much help here, that we feel we have to pay it forward. This really is a family.
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I was wondering that honestly! I've seen so many members with cats who were OTJ or GA and surprised to see that they are still regularly posting here. Now I understand, and am so appreciative. It feels so much like family here. I admit, I was scared that I would receive a lot of critiscm because of my past mistakes when it came to Moose's diabetes (only doing a curve every few months, not spot checking, etc.) but no one has. There has only been love and support!
 
Whew, just checked the spreadsheet. Nice to see that 112 at +8, he seems to be behaving himself after that dive! Hope you were able to grab a bit of sleep in there.
 
Nan & Amber said:
Whew, just checked the spreadsheet. Nice to see that 112 at +8, he seems to be behaving himself after that dive! Hope you were able to grab a bit of sleep in there.
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Thankfully! I accidentally fell asleep around 3:30am...so tired...but I had gotten the 112 beforehand so I wasn't as worried. Woke back up at 6:00am and all was on the up and up.

But AMPS is 154...I will be gone for a few hours so I am scared to shoot since I won't be home to keep watch.

Thank you for checking in!
 
If he were mine, I'd lower yet again, specially if I needed to go out, back-to-back reductions or not. I disobeyed the back-to-back reduction with Quintus pretty systematically and didn't regret it.

Just one data point. I'd pick "immediate safety". You've got a recent food transition in there, you've had to skip shots...

Caveat: I haven't been here long and Q was on the juice barely over a month before going into express remission. Add salt to taste.
 
Stephanie & Quintus said:
If he were mine, I'd lower yet again, specially if I needed to go out, back-to-back reductions or not. I disobeyed the back-to-back reduction with Quintus pretty systematically and didn't regret it.

Just one data point. I'd pick "immediate safety". You've got a recent food transition in there, you've had to skip shots...

Caveat: I haven't been here long and Q was on the juice barely over a month before going into express remission. Add salt to taste.
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Did you have a positive reaction from the back to back reductions from Q?

I agree, I'd rather be safe than sorry but also not completely skip the dose...however I am very new here and relying very much on the other user's suggestions.

Congrats on the speedy remission! That's awesome! Good job to you and Q :)
 
Has Moose had his breakfast yet? If not, I'd maybe re-test in 30mins, just to make sure he's going up (he likely is given the +8, but you know how these cats like to surprise us!).
 
Just to make a point. getting a number as low as 2mmol (36 US) on a pet meter is dangerous and action needs to be taken long before your kitty ever hits this number. The take action number for TR is 68 ( 3.8 mmol) when using a pet meter. I am currently dealing with a hypo with my kitty and I have had a lot of experience over the last 3+ years with hypos and two diabetic kitties. I went from pajamas to fully dressed in less than one minute and was ready to head out to the ER if the numbers did not come back up in the 15 minutes after I syringed syrup and HC. I still have a number of hours to monitor but her numbers are up some...still too low..and holding. A hypo is VERY serious and if not deadly can cause long lasting or permanent effects


Safety is ALWAYS the primary concern and the protocols were designed for a reason.


BTW My girl showed NO SIGNS whatsoever of being in a hypo.
 
Nan & Amber said:
Has Moose had his breakfast yet? If not, I'd maybe re-test in 30mins, just to make sure he's going up (he likely is given the +8, but you know how these cats like to surprise us!).
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Yes he has! I fed him right after I tested. He is so well behaved normally and gives up his blood like a champ, but not when he's hangry...lol.
 
Moose & Rae said:
Did you have a positive reaction from the back to back reductions from Q?
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If you look at his spreadsheet (it's not long!) you'll see that I never managed to keep up with him and had to keep decreasing down to nothing.

Not saying that is what will happen here, just that, well, the risk with a back-to-back reduction failing is that you'll have to up the dose again. And the risk with not doing it is dealing with lime greens. So it also depends how much you like "managing" those lime greens. I was trying to get Quintus under renal threshold at first, so I didn't care much if he was a little higher, but I did care if he was "risking hypo" while I needed sleep or was off at work. That was my reasoning.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
Just to make a point. getting a number as low as 2mmol (36 US) on a pet meter is dangerous and action needs to be taken long before your kitty ever hits this number. The take action number for TR is 68 ( 3.8 mmol) when using a pet meter. I am currently dealing with a hypo with my kitty and I have had a lot of experience over the last 3+ years with hypos and two diabetic kitties. I went from pajamas to fully dressed in less than one minute and was ready to head out to the ER if the numbers did not come back up in the 15 minutes after I syringed syrup and HC. I still have a number of hours to monitor but her numbers are up some...still too low..and holding. A hypo is VERY serious and if not deadly can cause long lasting or permanent effects


Safety is ALWAYS the primary concern and the protocols were designed for a reason.
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I hope my mentioning that 36 on the AT was "rush to the ER" was not understood as "anything above is fine, just relax". Not what I was saying.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
Just to make a point. getting a number as low as 2mmol (36 US) on a pet meter is dangerous and action needs to be taken long before your kitty ever hits this number. The take action number for TR is 68 ( 3.8 mmol) when using a pet meter. I am currently dealing with a hypo with my kitty and I have had a lot of experience over the last 3+ years with hypos and two diabetic kitties. I went from pajamas to fully dressed in less than one minute and was ready to head out to the ER if the numbers did not come back up in the 15 minutes after I syringed syrup and HC. I still have a number of hours to monitor but her numbers are up some...still too low..and holding. A hypo is VERY serious and if not deadly can cause long lasting or permanent effects


Safety is ALWAYS the primary concern and the protocols were designed for a reason.
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Thank you for the information! I will keep that number in mind, as Moose has reached below that number severals times in the last few days. I do understand the importance of acting quickly, and have been able to increase his numbers ASAP after reaching those lows...I just struggle with knowing if I should shoot or not and how much...

I'm so sorry to hear about your kitty, I know how stressful and scary that moment is! I hope that her numbers start to increase even more and remain steady in a safe range! Thank you again for in info. Please keep us updated.
 
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