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Bonnie & Oreo Joe

Bonnie & Oreo Joe

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Scared I posted wrong as no one has seen this. Spreadsheet is https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14KvopXfKGqC_CD0R63O_TC5_eKxajiLx0vlL5Uumxzc/edit#gid=0

He is staying at 325 didn't move a single point after 1½ U at +2
Hubby found something we can try for special litter box to check for Ketones, except he isn't peeing!! It is a sheet if ice outside and besides the emergency vet is 3 hours away - that isn't going to help!!
He had 3 TBL of pate' low carb cat food assisted feeding. What do I do?
He hasn't drank anything. I am going to find something to give him fluids with.


Posts since WED http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/oreo-joe-new-tests-diabetic-kitty.188633/#post-2096638
 
Bonnie & Oreo Joe said:
Scared I posted wrong as no one has seen this. Spreadsheet is https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14KvopXfKGqC_CD0R63O_TC5_eKxajiLx0vlL5Uumxzc/edit#gid=0

He is staying at 325 didn't move a single point after 1½ U at +2
Hubby found something we can try for special litter box to check for Ketones, except he isn't peeing!! It is a sheet if ice outside and besides the emergency vet is 3 hours away - that isn't going to help!!
He had 3 TBL of pate' low carb cat food assisted feeding. What do I do?
He hasn't drank anything. I am going to find something to give him fluids with.


Posts since WED http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/oreo-joe-new-tests-diabetic-kitty.188633/#post-2096638
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If he isn't peeing at all my concern would be a blockage in his urinary tract, pancratitis, or ketoacidosis. Does he go in the box and strain to go? How long has it been since he went? You definitly need to get more food and water in him. Assist a feed a few tablespoons every 2 -3 hours until you can get him help. Water down the pate until it's like a thin soup. . Offer him anything he might eat. Try tuna, or putting Parmigiano cheese on top.

How long has it been since he ate on his own?
Do his gums feel wet and slippery or kind of dry and sticky? Does his breath smell weird like nail polish remover?
Are the vets open to you today? I would take him in.
 
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Most insulin doesn't start working until 2-3 hours after injection. Test again at +4. Can you add info to your signature? To set up a signature, click on your name at the top right corner and choose signature. Add info such as your pets name, date diagnosed, insulin type and dose, food you're feeding and any other health concerns.
 
Sorry you aren't getting much response... It's 4:47 am on the east coast of the US and 1:47 am on the west coast. Most are sleeping right now.
 
JanetNJ said:
If he isn't peeing at all my concern would be a blockage in his urinary tract or ketoacidosis. Does he go in the box and strain to go? How long has it been since he went? You definitly need to get more food and water in him. Assist feed every 2 hours until you can get him help. Water down the pate until it's like a thin soup. . Offer him anything he might eat. Try tuna, or putting Parmigiano cheese on top.


Do his gums feel wet and slippery or kind of dry and sticky? Does his breath smell weird like nail polish remover?
Are the vets open to you today? I would take him in.
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Urinated between 1AM and 7AM Was a good sized clump. He won't go in his litter box if we can see him. I hear him trying to go now and I have it covered and a container out with peas in it.
Gums are wet and pink. He just got off my lap for first time since 7:30 and it is 10:45.
He came out from his hidden litter box and stared until I removed the cover from it as he just looked like I had lost my marbles in trying to get him to pee in peas. I grabbed a ketone stick and while Oreo dug a deep hole he did not urinate. I got 3 cc water in him and of course he is gone now. Out of the room. Probably hiding.

Oreo was kept in a cage for 2½ years on dry food. I switched him to wet diabetic friendly canned food low carb and high protein. Was on this board I found out about it a few years ago. Mjau is a Swedish brand. He will eat only chicken or turkey pate' and raw chicken for treats. He absolutely will not touch any other food except for a dry treat with 2 cal. He has refused them for 1½ weeks.
I can't doctor his food up to tempt him as he has never been tempted. He won't even eat cooked chicken. I have a dish down with watered down pate'. The dish is raised up he just shakes his foot and walks away.

Living in Sweden means that there is probably no other medication for a cat other than ProZinc and Caninsulin. No glucose/ketone monitors - Amazon takes 1 to 2 weeks to arrive and that is from England. Also the emergency vet is 3 hours away and we have more ice than road right now. Also we do not have several hundred dollars. I know if it were my child I would call an ambulance and the bills would be paid for here. We don't worry about cats here. Well a few of us do. Most let their cats with diabetes die or put them down.

I will go and get him and assist feed him again. Now. But will be by the pc. Only have a 3cc syringe.
+3½ 280
 
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Bonnie & Oreo Joe said:
Urinated between 1AM and 7AM Was a good sized clump. He won't go in his litter box if we can see him. I hear him trying to go now and I have it covered and a container out with peas in it.
Gums are wet and pink. He just got off my lap for first time since 7:30 and it is 10:45.
He came out from his hidden litter box and stared until I removed the cover from it as he just looked like I had lost my marbles in trying to get him to pee in peas. I grabbed a ketone stick and while Oreo dug a deep hole he did not urinate. I got 3 cc water in him and of course he is gone now. Out of the room. Probably hiding.

Oreo was kept in a cage for 2½ years on dry food. I switched him to wet diabetic friendly canned food low carb and high protein. Was on this board I found out about it a few years ago. Mjau is a Swedish brand. He will eat only chicken or turkey pate' and raw chicken for treats. He absolutely will not touch any other food except for a dry treat with 2 cal. He has refused them for 1½ weeks.
I can't doctor his food up to tempt him as he has never been tempted. He won't even eat cooked chicken. I have a dish down with watered down pate'. The dish is raised up he just shakes his foot and walks away.

Living in Sweden means that there is probably no other medication for a cat other than ProZinc and Caninsulin. No glucose/ketone monitors - Amazon takes 1 to 2 weeks to arrive and that is from England. Also the emergency vet is 3 hours away and we have more ice than road right now. Also we do not have several hundred dollars. I know if it were my child I would call an ambulance and the bills would be paid for here. We don't worry about cats here. Well a few of us do. Most let their cats with diabetes die or put them down.

I will go and get him and assist feed him again. Now. But will be by the pc. Only have a 3cc syringe.
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Maybe try warming up his food a little to bring out the aroma and tempt him. I have a picky eater too that will eat no people food.

They don't have ketone strips in the pharmacy for people to use? They are the same ones for cats, so that's surprising.

Your cat is lucky to have you.

I'm glad to hear he peed so at least we know it's not a blockage. Glad the gums are wet as well. Just keep doing what you're doing. The important thing is he eat enough to prevent fatty liver from developing, and to stay hydrated. You are doing a great job.
 
JanetNJ said:
Maybe try warming up his food a little to bring out the aroma and tempt him. I have a picky eater too that will eat no people food.

They don't have ketone strips in the pharmacy for people to use? They are the same ones for cats, so that's surprising.

Your cat is lucky to have you.

I'm glad to hear he peed so at least we know it's not a blockage. Glad the gums are wet as well. Just keep doing what you're doing. The important thing is he eat enough to prevent fatty liver from developing, and to stay hydrated. You are doing a great job.
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He didn't pee just dug 12 inches down then left.
I have the sticks but with no pee I can't test.
I posted his BS did go down - 280 @3½
Have him in a death grip got 5 cc water in and 2 tsp food
 
Bonnie & Oreo Joe said:
He didn't pee just dug 12 inches down then left.
I have the sticks but with no pee I can't test.
I posted his BS did go down - 280 @3½
Have him in a death grip got 5 cc water in and 2 tsp food
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Good job. I am again concerned about the possibility of a blockage. They can be very dangerous in male cats in particular. Try stroking his lower abdominal area to see if pressure on his bladder may make him go.
 
JanetNJ said:
Good job. I am again concerned about the possibility of a blockage. They can be very dangerous in male cats in particular. Try stroking his lower abdominal area to see if pressure on his bladder may make him go.
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He went into the box again but nothing, I followed him and while I doubt he would ever go on the floor ( he went without food and water and no peeing or bm for 3 days in spring 2013 when we brought him home and couldn't find him for 3½ days. Still don't know where he hid. ) I rubbed his abdomen and he purred and left for the other room. Hear him in the box again. Just a small B.M. - I can't feel a lump where his bladder should be but then I have only checked adults for distended bladders. I have to leave the pc for a bit, am going to see if I can get him to cuddle in a non feeding or watering area.
He hasn't had dry food in 4½ years so no crystals from dry food.
 
Bonnie & Oreo Joe said:
He went into the box again but nothing, I followed him and while I doubt he would ever go on the floor ( he went without food and water and no peeing or bm for 3 days in spring 2013 when we brought him home and couldn't find him for 3½ days. Still don't know where he hid. ) I rubbed his abdomen and he purred and left for the other room. Hear him in the box again. Just a small B.M. - I can't feel a lump where his bladder should be but then I have only checked adults for distended bladders. I have to leave the pc for a bit, am going to see if I can get him to cuddle in a non feeding or watering area.
He hasn't had dry food in 4½ years so no crystals from dry food.
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You said you changed his litter to peas? Maybe offer his old litter. The change may be preventing him from going.
 
FurBabiesMama said:
This is what I was thinking as I read this. Maybe he does not want anything to do with the 'weird' litter. I would make a box available with his normal litter.
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When I saw he wouldn't even step in the pea's box I uncovered the litter box and the one time he dug and didn't go and the second time he dug and had a small bm. But he hasn't had water from his fountain since I started to watch 6 hours ago. Hubby is bringing him in to me for a BS and assisted feed and water now. +5 215
 
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I'm sorry you're having such a hard time under difficult weather conditions. I have nothing much to add that hasn't been said. Cats with a blockage or cystitis will often try to pee repeatedly in many non litter box locations - bathtub, sink, on clothing or bedding, etc. There's often blood with or without mucus in it when they manage to squeeze out a few drops. They tend to vocalize with the pain.

Syringe feeding pureed food and water is the right thing to do, along with giving insulin. I can't see your spreadsheet BTW. You need to click on the "share" icon then allow access to all of us who have the link. The BG at +5 isn't that bad all things considered.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I'm sorry you're having such a hard time under difficult weather conditions. I have nothing much to add that hasn't been said. Cats with a blockage or cystitis will often try to pee repeatedly in many non litter box locations - bathtub, sink, on clothing or bedding, etc. There's often blood with or without mucus in it when they manage to squeeze out a few drops. They tend to vocalize with the pain.

Syringe feeding pureed food and water is the right thing to do, along with giving insulin. I can't see your spreadsheet BTW. You need to click on the "share" icon then allow access to all of us who have the link. The BG at +5 isn't that bad all things considered.
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I click on share but it wants an address is it just the group email?
Just got 6 cc water and small amount of pate' finger fed. He went to litter box and nothing.

He refuses to pee anywhere other than the litter box. Like I said he went over 3 days when we brought him home and he didn't eat, drink or use the litter box he was busy hiding when we were up or knocking things over to break when we were sleeping When he finally got desperate he came out and did his business and then hid under the bed for 6 weeks. The water will go down without a fuss should I begin with that and get 12 cc in then assist feed and hope for a 2 or 3 T of food down him? Is that enough? I can give water more often but don't want to make him explode.
 
Bonnie & Oreo Joe said:
I click on share but it wants an address is it just the group email?
Just got 6 cc water and small amount of pate' finger fed. He went to litter box and nothing.

He refuses to pee anywhere other than the litter box. Like I said he went over 3 days when we brought him home and he didn't eat, drink or use the litter box he was busy hiding when we were up or knocking things over to break when we were sleeping When he finally got desperate he came out and did his business and then hid under the bed for 6 weeks. The water will go down without a fuss should I begin with that and get 12 cc in then assist feed and hope for a 2 or 3 T of food down him? Is that enough? I can give water more often but don't want to make him explode.
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When I click on the share icon, a menu drops down. I can click on "anyone with link can view" and then "done". Not sure I can be more helpful because I'm not very techie.

I don't know what else to suggest other than carefully palpating his bladder region when you can. A full bladder should feel like a distended balloon.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
When I click on the share icon, a menu drops down. I can click on "anyone with link can view" and then "done". Not sure I can be more helpful because I'm not very techie.

I don't know what else to suggest other than carefully palpating his bladder region when you can. A full bladder should feel like a distended balloon.
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Ok can you see it now? No distended balloon.
We have a good snowfall coming down now! Tuesday and vet back or at least the clinic is open again. IF we make it. I am letting myself get stressed. All of Jan. money is gone and I am into Feb - we paid for 2 vet visits 306 dollars and have 3 that we haven't gotten billed for. Now this yikes. Hubby to sick to drive anywhere even if we could. So glad you are willing to help me. Mostly worried about peeing but if he is going down in glucose he has had so little water that he can't have much in his bladder. He is really stressed out over all of this and I know he won't hate me because deep down he knows I love him and help him but unless told differently I will give water ( only have 3cc syringe) every hour. It is not for feeding so have a tiny place the needle should fit on. I aim it into his cheek and slowly dribble in as I see him swallow.
 
Rachel said:
I can see your SS now! I don't have any suggestions beyond what you've gotten already but wanted to give you some support! Keep us posted. :bighug::bighug:
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Just finished a fruitless bladder massage with nothing happening. He is in and out of the litter box but can't go. I got 7 cc of water down at 3:40 pm and a bit of food. I wore water and food more than he did. He fights and pushes and pulls. I went in by hubby and told him that Oreo would die a painful horrid death and it was killing me. He said we will take him to the vet on Tuesday and have him put to sleep if you can't handle it. He knows we have no money for all this stuff and he has a point and there are no shelters that won't kill and besides he lived in a foster home for years in a cage! We ill have had him 5 years in April and it is just the last 6 months that I could pick him up or that he wanted to be held up against my shoulder and loved.
If he doesn't urinate what do I expect? Everything that ever happened with my kids or pets has happened over a long holiday weekend here. I will skip some of my meds to pay for a vet visit on Tuesday but until then I have no place to go. Oh great I am a whiny old lady with a bad attitude and a migraine.
 
Bonnie & Oreo Joe said:
Just finished a fruitless bladder massage with nothing happening. He is in and out of the litter box but can't go. I got 7 cc of water down at 3:40 pm and a bit of food. I wore water and food more than he did. He fights and pushes and pulls. I went in by hubby and told him that Oreo would die a painful horrid death and it was killing me. He said we will take him to the vet on Tuesday and have him put to sleep if you can't handle it. He knows we have no money for all this stuff and he has a point and there are no shelters that won't kill and besides he lived in a foster home for years in a cage! We ill have had him 5 years in April and it is just the last 6 months that I could pick him up or that he wanted to be held up against my shoulder and loved.
If he doesn't urinate what do I expect? Everything that ever happened with my kids or pets has happened over a long holiday weekend here. I will skip some of my meds to pay for a vet visit on Tuesday but until then I have no place to go. Oh great I am a whiny old lady with a bad attitude and a migraine.
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Ugh I am so sorry. If he's in and out of the box he could have a crystal blockage. Serious in male cats especially. Do you have any organic apple cider vinegar?
 
JanetNJ said:
Ugh I am so sorry. If he's in and out of the box he could have a crystal blockage. Serious in male cats especially. Do you have any organic apple cider vinegar?
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I think so do I give that in water and how much? Can he get crystals without having been fed dry food he hasn't had that in years.
First one I found on Google was for cystitis 1 cap full vinegar to 1 quart water and I got 3 cc's in with much foaming of the mouth and dirty looks. Doubt it was organic but couldn't see the label said anything bad. I see on here it says 1/4 tsp to a bit of food so I under dosed him?
I looked up crystals in male cat on the board and I only found the references to MY posts. lol

Off to begin a meal. Will check back when I can in the next hour to see if I should make it stronger.
 
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If you have any cosequine or dosaquin for arthritis that sometimes helps with inflammation.
 
I was able to cure one of my cats with a minor uti with acv.... Although I still think k it's important your cat see a vet as soon as possible if there's a complete blockage.
 
If he peed a large amount this morning, he’s not likely blocked. I have a cat who only pees once a day. Do you know how often he normally pees?

I would definitely give him his old litter back and see what he does (unless you did and I missed it). And you said he won’t use the box if you are watching? So there’s no way he would let you slip a large spoon under his bottom as he squats?

And just to be sure....even though the vet clinics are closed, there is not one “on call”? When we lived in Germany (and I know this is also true in France because a friend lives there now), if you call the clinic when it is closed, you can leave a message for an on call vet to call you back.

It’s going to be difficult to get enough food in him with only a 3ml syringe. Is it possible the pharmacy might have larger syringes without needles or perhaps even your own doctor?

If there is any possibility he has ketones, you have to get a lot of food and water in him. I’ll leave the insulin dosing to the PZ Members as I haven’t used that insulin.

How about baby food....do they have it in the stores with just the meat and the meat broth (no vegetable broth).
 
JanetNJ said:
https://petnet.io/blog/holistic-healing-for-cats-apple-cider-vinegar


http://www.wildernesscat.com/apple-cider-vinegar-cats/
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We hit pay dirt in the litter box. I heard the litter and rushed in by the box and grabbed the lumping kitty litter broke it open and shoved the Ketone stick in and squeezed it. Of course the litter made it look bad but as far as I can tell after wiping it off the first blue green one was the same . Of course the rush to his litter box helped me burn ½ of the meal. I had to eat that or have another sandwich! I will be testing and shooting in about 1 hour. Testing will go fast at 7:30 but then I must feed and water. That is the hard part. Maybe he will be better tomorrow and eating!! I will stay up until 1 AM to keep giving water and some food. HUGS and Thank you for babysitting me today.
 
Bonnie & Oreo Joe said:
We hit pay dirt in the litter box. I heard the litter and rushed in by the box and grabbed the lumping kitty litter broke it open and shoved the Ketone stick in and squeezed it. Of course the litter made it look bad but as far as I can tell after wiping it off the first blue green one was the same . Of course the rush to his litter box helped me burn ½ of the meal. I had to eat that or have another sandwich! I will be testing and shooting in about 1 hour. Testing will go fast at 7:30 but then I must feed and water. That is the hard part. Maybe he will be better tomorrow and eating!! I will stay up until 1 AM to keep giving water and some food. HUGS and Thank you for babysitting me today.
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I'm so glad he peed and isn't blocked! So no ketones?
 
Marje and Gracie said:
If he peed a large amount this morning, he’s not likely blocked. I have a cat who only pees once a day. Do you know how often he normally pees? He has always drank lots and peed a lot, I suppose he has been diabetic for all the time we adopted him. The shelters Vet said he was in perfect health. That is how we got to pay $300 to get rid of the worst case of ear mites our vet had ever seen.

I would definitely give him his old litter back and see what he does (unless you did and I missed it). And you said he won’t use the box if you are watching? So there’s no way he would let you slip a large spoon under his bottom as he squats?
Oreo won't pee in his litter box if I am standing up in the room. He sits with his legs crossed until he is sure I can't see him. lol

And just to be sure....even though the vet clinics are closed, there is not one “on call”? When we lived in Germany (and I know this is also true in France because a friend lives there now), if you call the clinic when it is closed, you can leave a message for an on call vet to call you back.
I can call and get on call vet but will be told to take him to ER 3 hours away from here or if they are at the clinic would see him for dbl charge and the weather doesn't let us out.

It’s going to be difficult to get enough food in him with only a 3ml syringe. Is it possible the pharmacy might have larger syringes without needles or perhaps even your own doctor?
No pharmacy is open until Tuesday. But the syringe works for water and I finger tip the pate' in.

If there is any possibility he has ketones, you have to get a lot of food and water in him. I’ll leave the insulin dosing to the PZ Members as I haven’t used that insulin.

How about baby food....do they have it in the stores with just the meat and the meat broth (no vegetable broth).
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Sweden doesn't believe in feeding food until 1 year and then any food is mixed with everything else. No just meat or just chicken etc. I am having culture shock after 30 years of living here. posted reply wrong. I typed in after question. need to scroll back.
 
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Rachel said:
YAY for peeing! I know that's a HUGE load off your mind. Maybe try to grab a nap sometime before 1AM...you are probably exhausted from today!
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We are down to 181.8 can I still shoot 1½ ProZinc? I have been trying to feed for 30 min. I am not getting anything down him a tsp or 2
 
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Bonnie & Oreo Joe said:
We are down to 181.8 can I still shoot 1½ ProZinc?
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No, I wouldn't do that. You don't have a big enough collection of data to predict what he might do. You can stall for 20 minutes without feeding and retest. If his BG is rising shooting the full dose might be OK. You can repeat these 20 min stalls up to an hour total. If he gets above 200 post for advice. Another option is to shoot a reduced dose - maybe 1 unit?

It would be very helpful to us if set up your "signature". That's the light grey text you see under out posts. Go to the upper right corner of this page and click on your name. In the menu that drops down click on "signature". A text box will open where you can put in the following:
  • kitty's name, age, date of diagnosis
  • insulin you use
  • glucose meter you use
  • what he eats
  • any other meds/health issues he has
  • link to your spreadsheet (open your SS, copy the URL from the top of its page and past it into the text box with the other signature info).
 
If he won't eat much giving a full dose of insulin isn't safe. A small token dose could work. Not eating + dehydration (maybe) + not enough insulin = increased risk of ketones. Do your best to get as much food syringed into him as you can.
 
JanetNJ said:
I wouldn't. It's hard to give dosing advice without seeing numbers. Do you write them on paper? Could you post your log?
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Posted SS he is up to 192.6. I can stay awake 4 more hours so thinking 1 U give a try at feeding at least some every 2 hours and glucose ck. Water as much as I can get him to take more often.
 
JanetNJ said:
Put an ice pack on the back of your back and a heating pad on your Feet. It helps migraines.
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I used to make a way to strong coffee with caffeine of course, and that helped. It worked for cluster headaches too. Now I get sick from coffee and the neuropathy in my feet is so bad that heat can make them sting for hours, so can cold. But I can try coke and ice!
The boy is up to 214 and got 2½ tsp in and 6 cc of water the blood pops out before he knows I have his ear in my hand.
Thanks all!!
 
Bonnie & Oreo Joe said:
I used to make a way to strong coffee with caffeine of course, and that helped. It worked for cluster headaches too. Now I get sick from coffee and the neuropathy in my feet is so bad that heat can make them sting for hours, so can cold. But I can try coke and ice!
The boy is up to 214 and got 2½ tsp in and 6 cc of water the blood pops out before he knows I have his ear in my hand.
Thanks all!!
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Do you take b12 methylcobalamin for yourself? It may help with the foot pain.
 
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