24/8 Update on Chester

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AJ,

I apologizes for my comments you have listed above - I can see you are hurt by them but never were my words misinterpreted like that before. It was not my intention to hurt you. I wanted to help - that's all. "some spam after a game " comment meant to be a humor, an attempt to make you laugh and to feel better. I never questioned your commitment. When my cat was dying from DKA I was just as exhausted as you are now and I could not understand anything but plain language put down in the bullet point fashion - I was too exhausted to see what my priorities were and I was grateful when someone talked to me in plain language.
Again, I am very sorry you are hurt by my words - it is not my intention to hurt you. All I wanted to let you know is that there is a way to try in this dire situation. And to offer my help. Please forgive my bad choice of words.

Best of luck to you and Chester.
 
Update

So Chester has made it through the night. He's had one lot of fluids about 3am last night approx 7'hours ago. And is already dehydrated again so will be receiving a second dose soon.
His bg is still high at 23.3 that's on 2.5U of canninsulin- slightly lower than when he was at thenvets. This was only increased yesterday or the day before. I don't know much about canninsulin just it drops fast and hard.

AJay will not be on the forums for a while as she's just not able to keep up. So I will post as and when I can,

I'm happy to pass on any advice offered.
 
I'm so sorry that posts conveying a sense of urgency and wanting badly to help have come across as controlling and confrontational. None of that was intentional and it speaks to the difficulties in communicating effectively in this online medium. @Tanya and Ducia has very hard-earned experience and was very willing to help. Her first language is not English, however, and that needs to be factored into the back and forth here. I also understand how difficult it is to receive a barrage of what seem to be commands when a million things need attention at the same time.

Tara, please let Ajay know we understand how stressed she is, are still pulling hard for Chester and are here to help/advise if she feels the need.
 
Tara, we are all grateful for the assistance you are giving AJay by providing an ear when she needs it and updates here. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:All of us are wishing we could be on AJay's doorstep to help out and take some of the pressure off. We understand how incredibly upsetting and exhausting this whole situation has been and continues to be for AJay. Alas all we can offer are written words of support and advice and sometimes those messages don't come across in the spirit in which they are offered.

Please gently remind AJay to try to get some rest and eat when she can so she doesn't get so exhausted she gets sick. AJay is indeed a force to be reckoned with as is Chester who has shown he is a fighter. Together they make one dynamic duo!

Sending more healing vines and prayers for Chester and some heavy duty energy vines and :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug: for AJay.
 
I have just relayed that for you all. :bighug::bighug:

I wish I had more experience. My main concern is that his BG isn't coming down and reading what Tanya has said realise how important that is. Can anyone advise on that? He's just been upped to 2.5 but it's not dropping him as it should. Should she increase again?
 
TempestsMum said:
I have just relayed that for you all. :bighug::bighug:

I wish I had more experience. My main concern is that his BG isn't coming down and reading what Tanya has said realise how important that is. Can anyone advise on that? He's just been upped to 2.5 but it's not dropping him as it should. Should she increase again?
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Is he eating well? If he is, I'd increase. He could also be given higher carb food to support a higher insulin dose if he's eating properly. Lots of monitoring needed of course. I think a period of slightly more aggressive dose increases is in order in this situation - maybe 0.5 u at a time, hold 3 cycles or so and then up again. He's still on Caninsulin, right?
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Is he eating well? If he is, I'd increase. He could also be given higher carb food to support a higher insulin dose if he's eating properly. Lots of monitoring needed of course. I think a period of slightly more aggressive dose increases is in order in this situation - maybe 0.5 u at a time, hold 3 cycles or so and then up again. He's still on Caninsulin, right?
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Yes Kris he's still on canninsulin. He seems to be eating ok. I will pass that along, thank you. :bighug:
 
If Chester's appetite is diminished at all, I'd try some higher carb food of any type to see if he can be enticed to eat. If assist feeding is possible (AJay has really had little time to really get to know the little monkey!) then I'd perhaps raise to 3.0u but I think I'd be more conservative right now and up to 2.75u until AJay is sure she can get some nutrition into him if the need should arise. The last thing she needs now is a kitty who won't eat with low BG and another trip to the vet. Hopefully his numbers are a bit of new dose wonkiness and with that significant increase by the vet, I'd worry about skipping over the best dose.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
If Chester's appetite is diminished at all, I'd try some higher carb food of any type to see if he can be enticed to eat. If assist feeding is possible (AJay has really had little time to really get to know the little monkey!) then I'd perhaps raise to 3.0u but I think I'd be more conservative right now and up to 2.75u until AJay is sure she can get some nutrition into him if the need should arise. The last thing she needs now is a kitty who won't eat with low BG and another trip to the vet. Hopefull his numbers are a bit of new dose wonkiness and with that significant increase by the vet, I'd worry about skipping over the best dose.
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She has gone with the 2.75U as his bg is at 20.8 which is the lowest he's been in a week. Hopefully this is a positive sign.

He's had 2 lots of subq and will be due another later tonight. He did have a wee lie outside earlier too.
 
Chester this afternoon.

IMG_1194.JPG
 
AJ- you and Chester have been through the wringer. BREATHE, BREATHE, BREATHE. I was following on other group site. Didn't know you were here. Glad to see Chester is home.

I know he has been in hospital basically since you took him in, so I know you don't have data on him. Here is something to consider once you do.

Vetsulin is not a depot insulin. Therefore, it can be given 3x a day. BUT you need the data to see how it's working now (like how long it lasts, when it starts to work etc. in Chester). There are a few people here that are more experienced in Vetsulin I'm sure would help you figure it out as it will be tricky to figure a new dosing regimen, if your time permits that kind of schedule. As I said it's something worth considering.

You are doing an awesome job with Chester. and you are his best advocate. It was his lucky day when he found you. Regroup, recoup your energy and sanity. AND BREATHE!!!!! You got this woman!!!!!

:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Thanks Tara. Good to know he is dropping and hopefully will drop a bit more yet. Fingers crossed! :)
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I do think 3u would be good but the 2.75 is good too, it shouldn't make him as bouncy? Maybe if AJay holds the 2.75 for a couple of cycles then does the 3u?
 
TempestsMum said:
I do think 3u would be good but the 2.75 is good too, it shouldn't make him as bouncy? Maybe if AJay holds the 2.75 for a couple of cycles then does the 3u?
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You could hold 2.75 u for a couple of cycles to see what it can do. This is a case, though, where he shouldn't linger in higher numbers too long. I like the drop at +3 and I'm glad he's eating. He needs calories and enough carbs to support adequate insulin. I think you want to see a good drop in BG for as long as it's possible within a cycle. That could cause some bouncing but my guess is that whether he's bouncy or not remains to be determined.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
You could hold 2.75 u for a couple of cycles to see what it can do. This is a case, though, where he shouldn't linger in higher numbers too long. I like the drop at +3 and I'm glad he's eating. He needs calories and enough carbs to support adequate insulin. I think you want to see a good drop in BG for as long as it's possible within a cycle. That could cause some bouncing but my guess is that whether he's bouncy or not remains to be determined.
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I totally agree. Maybe 3u from tomorrow am? Thoughts?
 
TempestsMum said:
I totally agree. Maybe 3u from tomorrow am? Thoughts?
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Let's see where the 2.75 u dose gets him this cycle. Are we talking about the evening cycle right now? - time zone confusion. Will he have been on 2.75 u for only one cycle? I think the numbers should be the guide rather than how many cycles at a dose for now. The goal is to get him down.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Let's see where the 2.75 u dose gets him this cycle. Are we talking about the evening cycle right now? - time zone confusion. Will he have been on 2.75 u for only one cycle? I think the numbers should be the guide rather than how many cycles at a dose for now.
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Yes it's almost 1am here so that's his first 2.75 he was on 2.50 for 2-3days
 
TempestsMum said:
Yes it's almost 1am here so that's his first 2.75 he was on 2.50 for 2-3days
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The reason for keeping a dose for 3 cycles or so is to allow them to settle. If the 2.75 u gets him down nicely to, say, 10 - 12 range, it might be worth leaving it for another cycle or two. A lot depends on tonight's numbers. What were his nadir numbers on 2.5 u? Is he eating willingly?
 
Kris & Teasel said:
The reason for keeping a dose for 3 cycles or so is to allow them to settle. If the 2.75 u gets him down nicely to, say, 10 - 12 range, it might be worth leaving it for another cycle or two. A lot depends on tonight's numbers. What were his nadir numbers on 2.5 u? Is he eating willingly?
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I don't know what they were he was at the vets until yesterday am. They haven't done much testing on the reports... no nadirs from being in their care, he was averaging 25-26 ish on the few tests they've shown.

This is the lowest he's been since AJay got him I think. There's a problem with her SS so she can't update it.
I've asked if she can get a +5/6 or 7/8 if she can tonight but I need to sleep, I've been really ill the last two weeks and work tomorrow so it's a struggle for me right now and I can't stay up to post those. It will be the morning before I can.

He's eating but only small amounts at a time, AJay is prepared to syringe feed if necessary.
He's getting fluids 2-3 times a day.
 
TempestsMum said:
I don't know what they were he was at the vets until yesterday am. They haven't done much testing on the reports... no nadirs from being in their care, he was averaging 25-26 ish on the few tests they've shown.

This is the lowest he's been since AJay got him I think. There's a problem with her SS so she can't update it.
I've asked if she can get a +5/6 or 7/8 if she can tonight but I need to sleep, I've been really ill the last two weeks and work tomorrow so it's a struggle for me right now and I can't stay up to post those. It will be the morning before I can.

He's eating but only small amounts at a time, AJay is prepared to syringe feed if necessary.
He's getting fluids 2-3 times a day.
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Sounds like everything possible is being done. You need to get to bed, Tara! ;) You can update us tomorrow.
 
Tomorrow we can see if we can get the SS fixed for AJay so she can just enter the numbers when she has a moment.
I agree with Kris. Let's see what he does tonight and then decide next steps how long to hold dose etc. based on numbers, Chester's willingness to eat/AJay's ability to assist feed if need be. As suggested by Woodsywife, 3 time daily dosing could also be considered depending on how AJay if feels about it. It's tough but it might get Chester some extra hours in decent numbers without the need to increase quite as much.
 
I'm just catching up on the last few posts. I agree with Kris' comments above - since this is canisulin, she can shoot the numbers seen per cycle as long as he's got food whether he eats or is syringe fed. AJay's not working on regulation right now, she's working on getting his body back to a stable point. She can't shoot down a bounce but she can give a good full dose knowing the glycogen will hold those numbers up. Enough insulin will convert a good amount of food into healing energy.

Others thoughts?

HUGS AND HUGS Ajay and headbutts handsome Chester...
 
I have good news this morning! I asked AJay to do a couple of checks throughout the night - poor woman has barely slept. and she did! :)

So to reiterate pmps 20.8
+2 22.8 (with a snack)
+3.5 16.8
+5 16.9
+8 11.9
+10 13.4

That's a nice curve!
He appears bright and alert this morning. I'm guessing AJay isn't feeling just so good lol

Edited he has a bit of diarrhoea any recommendations?
 
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TempestsMum said:
I have good news this morning! I asked AJay to do a couple of checks throughout the night - poor woman has barely slept. and she did! :)

So to reiterate pmps 20.8
+2 22.8 (with a snack)
+3.5 16.8
+5 16.9
+8 11.9
+10 13.4

That's a nice curve!
He appears bright and alert this morning. I'm guessing AJay isn't feeling just so good lol

Edited he has a bit of diarrhoea any recommendations?
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Just a few more details - I have been giving him Slippery Elm and Psyllium husk. I have noticed in the last lot of liquid poo that the PH is showing :( As in its not being digested or soaking up the liquid :(
I have also just given him 20mls of Liquivite - convalescence food.
He has been drinking well and I have been giving him 60ml fluid Sub q.

He's gone quiet now after being brighter this morning :( So when he comes out of hiding after being prodded and poked, Ill give him some more fluid :(

Currently having:
1.4ml Potassium supplement twice daily
Ranitidine .5ml twice daily
Pure Colloidal Silver in water and in mouth

He's currently having a bit of a paw wash, which he hasn't really done
 
AJay, I hope you managed to get some rest. You must be totally knackered. Love those numbers from last night! Go Chester! Looks like his AMPS might have been down a bit lower this AM giving him a jump on even better numbers today?:)

Hopefully someone else will chime in about the slippery elm and Pysllium husk as I have never used either with my furballs. I just wonder if some of the liquid poo with the husk apparent, is due to less food intake/liquid convalescence food...maybe back off on the amount being given as it apparently can cause loose stool if too much is given. Just food for thought......
 
Thanks @MrWorfMen's Mom. I'm coping lol. Always been a bit of a cat nap person ;) It's the 48hrs with only 2 hrs sleep that kills me.

Generally he's been having soft squished chicken. It was this morning I started on the Liquivite.

Are there any probiotics that are safe for diabetics? Wondering if that might help. More n more I think we're looking st digestive tract issues. :(

I'll be getting more test results just before I give him his fluids. He'd had enough of me this morning and went into hiding :(
 
Glad you can take cat naps...I they help but the lack of a full night's sleep still takes it's toll.

There are probiotics for humans that folks use for their kitties but I'll have to search a bit to get some names and even then I think they are likely to be US products so may not be of much help. Maybe @Elizabeth and Bertie knows of products you can get there.

Are you thinking maybe IBD? Another member near me has a kitty with IBD and she found diet was the key. Any attempt to change diet seemed to set off the loose stool and the wet food she could use was very limited. Do you know what Chester was eating before his adoption? I would hope that if he had displayed any bowel issues while in adoptive care they would have let you know but maybe that is wishful thinking on my part. :( Even if the carbs in previous diet are too high, it might be worth a try to get the bowel issues under control. Insulin can be increased to account for the higher carbs. If it is IBD, Chester may be having some tummy discomfort/gas and the psyllium might be making the gas worse. I'm not experienced with IBD myself so just thinking out loud here. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
When I picked him up he was on prescription dry :( Would that not dehydrate further potentially?

Yes, I had noticed that any changes sparks a tummy upset hence keeping it as simple as I could. But he's not eating much right now because of all of this going on. Sometimes feels like an insurmountable mountain :(

His faeces on dry were solid. He was also solid at the vets on prescription wet food with fluids (and electrolytes) being pumped thru...

Ideas? :(
 
I too would expect the dry to dehydrate him further but then one has to ask why the vet was feeding it when Chester was needing fluids. I think the key here is first and foremost to find food he will eat that doesn't set off bowel issues. Both fluid amounts and insulin can be increased accordingly if need be so might still be worth a try because he's still losing fluids with the loose stools so it seems somewhat of a trade off right now.
 
AJay said:
When I picked him up he was on prescription dry :( Would that not dehydrate further potentially?

Yes, I had noticed that any changes sparks a tummy upset hence keeping it as simple as I could. But he's not eating much right now because of all of this going on. Sometimes feels like an insurmountable mountain :(

His faeces on dry were solid. He was also solid at the vets on prescription wet food with fluids (and electrolytes) being pumped thru...

Ideas? :(
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any way you can get plain canned pumkin with no spices? That may help with the diarrhea and adds extra moisture to his diet. A tablespoon mixed in with his food. FortiFlora may help as well as a flavor enhancer/probiotic sprinkled on the food.

Praying for you and Chester
 
I love the curve numbers from yesterday! I have no experience with IBD issues so I can't weigh in. There are many members who do, though, and that website Linda gave you a link for is often cited.
 
Glad to hear he did well during the night. Bone broth helps coat the intestinal tract. It might also help to keep him eating. Is this something you might be able to do? I used slow cooker, then froze in ice cube trays. Take one cube out when needed, I would use about 1/2-1 tsp a day on his breakfast food, one cube would last me 3 days. One batch of broth would last quite awhile.

http://www.ibdkitties.net/bone-broth/
 
Just a warning on the Ranitidine that was listed in meds being given. My kitty Leo has IBD and was having problems with motility and hair ball elimination. Specialist recommended the ranitidine to move things along with the hair, and diarrhea followed. It can cause diarrhea and very loose stools in some cats. The pepcidAC works much better for my kitty but then again as we all know every cat is different.
 
Thanks for the replies :)
Briefly...
bone broth - tick :)
Ranitidine (insert v angry face!)
Pepcid ac - not in uk.. main ingredient famitadine. Struggling to find here.

Can I give omaprazole? I have some at home I think

Running round pharmacies atm
 
I'm pretty sure that omaprazole has been used but I have no idea what dose, etc. Famotadine (Pepcid AC) is a common med used for cats. I'm surprised it is not in common use in the UK. Does it go by another name possibly?
 
AJay said:
Thanks for the replies :)
Briefly...
bone broth - tick :)
Ranitidine (insert v angry face!)
Pepcid ac - not in uk.. main ingredient famitadine. Struggling to find here.

Can I give omaprazole? I have some at home I think

Running round pharmacies atm
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Not sure about omeprazole - different mechanism of action: PPI (proton pump inhibitor) instead of H2 receptor antagonist.
 
@Kris & Teasel - whoosh! Straight over my fried head atm :(
Basically we need to protect EVERYTHING digestive linked with him. He's feeling icky, tum is sore :( He's hungry but it hurts. He's going to have tummy acid cos of not eating.

Food going thru undigested. :( I have a few probiotics that were recommended.

Sorry it's brief. I'm trying to catch shops before they close because of bank holiday in uk

Can't get fortiflora from shops- has to be online. :( Even went into the store that showed it in stock :(
 
Lillie said:
Just a warning on the Ranitidine that was listed in meds being given. My kitty Leo has IBD and was having problems with motility and hair ball elimination. Specialist recommended the ranitidine to move things along with the hair, and diarrhea followed. It can cause diarrhea and very loose stools in some cats. The pepcidAC works much better for my kitty but then again as we all know every cat is different.
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@Kris & Teasel
 
AJay said:
@Kris & Teasel - whoosh! Straight over my fried head atm :(
Basically we need to protect EVERYTHING digestive linked with him. He's feeling icky, tum is sore :( He's hungry but it hurts. He's going to have tummy acid cos of not eating.

Food going thru undigested. :( I have a few probiotics that were recommended.

Sorry it's brief. I'm trying to catch shops before they close because of bank holiday in uk

Can't get fortiflora from shops- has to be online. :( Even went into the store that showed it in stock :(
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I've read a little online and rantidine is used fairly routinely in dogs and cats. Like any med it can cause issues with some kitties. You're in a special situation where you want to try everything to soothe his innards. I'd try the rantidine if that's what you can get.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I've read a little online and rantidine is used fairly routinely in dogs and cats. Like any med it can cause issues with some kitties. You're in a special situation where you want to try everything to soothe his innards. I'd try the rantidine if that's what you can get.
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That would seem to be the problem Kris That's what the vet has given me.. (along with incorrect dosage of insulin... - different story)
 
Calcium carbonate? Mag carb, sodium bicarbonate? 3 ingredients in Bisodol?
Am in last ditch pharmacy attempt here :(
 
AJay said:
Calcium carbonate? Mag carb, sodium bicarbonate? 3 ingredients in Bisodol?
Am in last ditch pharmacy attempt here :(
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Ranitidine for now. I think others have mentioned SEB, or slippery elm bark (health food store), to soothe but it needs to be given a couple of hours away from medications because it can interfere with absorption. I suggest posting here for info about it. I have no experience with it.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Ranitidine for now. I think others have mentioned SEB, or slippery elm bark (health food store), to soothe but it needs to be given a couple of hours away from medications because it can interfere with absorption. I suggest posting here for info about it. I have no experience with it.
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Kris, sorry, I keep saying. THIS may be part of his problem :'(
I have also had him on SE andPH. It is coming straight thru undigested.

Can you think of anything else? This is really destroying me :'(
 
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