Update on Teddy

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shawna

shawna

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Hi all,
I wanted to give you an update on Theodore's trip to the vet today!

He went because he has been really constipated (went once in about nine days) and the past two days had been refusing food and very listless and weak.

He didn't end up getting an enema or any procedure done...the vet said that whenever they would do any test or even come close he would growl, hiss, lose his mind and poop!!o_O lol she said every single time they even went near him today he would get cranky and start trying to scare and bite everyone and start pooping! Oh my! :facepalm: Lol Teddy is a sweet cat to me, but I think being in pain and being left there without me made him a tad upset! He isn't usually like that at the vet but I've always been with him. He flipped out like I did that one day...the only difference is that he pooped during his panic and I cried instead lol
She said it happened so much today that he is definitely cleaned out.

She gave him a B12 shot she said for energy.

The problem is she gave him 2 units of insulin even though I gave her his numbers/spreadsheet and told her that I haven't been giving insulin each time and that I haven't given higher than 1 unit since he goes so low. And she is the one who told me his bs would be higher at the vet due to stress.
So now his bs test is 44 .....

She gave him the insulin at 10am and I checked it at 7pm...so that's nine hours...I need to check the again after this post to see if it went up any with the extra food I gave him. I was glad to see him eat.
This isn't my main vet, she's been out of the office, this is the vet that works with her. I like her but I am going to start requesting my main vet.

I would put her blood sugar readings in Ted's spreadsheet but she uses the alpha tracker im assuming so the numbers wouldn't be the same.

So that is the update on Teddy. Just going to stop the tramadol for now to see if his appetite comes back. Basically I paid for them to test him and give him insulin, and for the b12 shot. I'm glad I was able to bring him there and I'm glad he went, even though I didn't expect to hear that!
Now I really need to get the fiber/cat stool softener started or I feel we will be back in the same place. I'm going to look into buying what was recommended to me here yesterday. I need to reread that.
I wasn't able to ask her about another medication or a couple other questions I had because she had an emergency today, but I'll talk to her on the phone tomorrow.

xoxox
 
Well, thank heavens for nervous pooping! That BG of 44 is awfully low so I'm glad you got some food into him. Check it again periodically. I certainly wouldn't give 2 u again.

I encourage you to go back and check Beth73's recommendation for constipation. She swears by it.
 
I'm so glad that he finally went...and it was probably more pleasant for him than an enema. I personally feel he was just trying to tell the vet how he was feeling about being there...:smuggrin:

Definitely check out Beth73's post. It sounded like a good thing!

Yeah, I would be annoyed with the insulin too...especially as they didn't even ask you! Maybe have them put in his chart to NOT give any meds without first talking to you from now on?
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Well, thank heavens for nervous pooping! That BG of 44 is awfully low so I'm glad you got some food into him. Check it again periodically. I certainly wouldn't give 2 u again.

I encourage you to go back and check Beth73's recommendation for constipation. She swears by it.
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Yes nervous pooping for the win lol. He sounds like he's a little terror there, but I know he's just hurting (and missing his mama lol) but I'm just glad he went one way or another!

I just checked it again and it's 69. Do I need to keep feeding him or he will be fine now? I'm trying to be cool, calm, and collected :rolleyes: in going to keep checking many times tonight though. I wish it didn't go that low again, I hope it's not causing more damage to him.

I told her that his bs gets too low with anything over 1 unit and I gave her the spreadsheet, but she still gave him two. She said his numbers were 209, 314 (gave 2u) and then 192. But that's on the alpha tracker I assume so I don't know what those numbers mean at all.

And yes I'm definitely going to buy that product she told me about! I just need to look to see what it was called again. I think I took a screen shot of it. Thanks again for asking her about it for me!!

I hope your day was nice!
 
Rachel said:
I'm so glad that he finally went...and it was probably more pleasant for him than an enema. I personally feel he was just trying to tell the vet how he was feeling about being there...:smuggrin:

Definitely check out Beth73's post. It sounded like a good thing!

Yeah, I would be annoyed with the insulin too...especially as they didn't even ask you! Maybe have them put in his chart to NOT give any meds without first talking to you from now on?
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lol at what you said about him just telling them what he thought!! :p Too funny!

And yes I definitely am going to buy that stuff and try it out!
Well I brought his insulin since I hadn't given any but I told her I hadn't give any the last couple days and I had it written down anything over 1 brings him down too much. I'm going to talk to her tomorrow. She is a wonderful vet but some things I just don't understand. She isn't my main vet though. Ted's real vet who I think is absolutely amazing has been out and will be back soon. So I'm going to make sure to just go to her going forward.

I hope you had a good day. Thanks for reading about how Teddy is doing! xoxox :)
 
shawna said:
Do I need to keep feeding him or he will be fine now?
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The 69 is good. Hold off on food and test once more. If he's holding you should be OK. All you need to know when it comes to pet versus human meters is that 50 is the danger mark on a human meter and 68 is the danger mark on a pet meter. So that 44 on your human meter was far too low. I'd stick with 1 u for now.
 
shawna said:
Yes nervous pooping for the win lol. He sounds like he's a little terror there, but I know he's just hurting (and missing his mama lol) but I'm just glad he went one way or another!

I just checked it again and it's 69. Do I need to keep feeding him or he will be fine now? I'm trying to be cool, calm, and collected :rolleyes: in going to keep checking many times tonight though. I wish it didn't go that low again, I hope it's not causing more damage to him.

I told her that his bs gets too low with anything over 1 unit and I gave her the spreadsheet, but she still gave him two. She said his numbers were 209, 314 (gave 2u) and then 192. But that's on the alpha tracker I assume so I don't know what those numbers mean at all.

And yes I'm definitely going to buy that product she told me about! I just need to look to see what it was called again. I think I took a screen shot of it. Thanks again for asking her about it for me!!

I hope your day was nice!
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69 is a safe number and he'll probably start going up now that he's past nadir, but don't feed now and test again in 20 and just make sure it's not going down.

So proud of you for staying calm cool and collected this time! High five!
 
Kris & Teasel said:
The 69 is good. Hold off on food and test once more. If he's holding you should be OK. All you need to know when it comes to pet versus human meters is that 50 is the danger mark on a human meter and 68 is the danger mark on a pet meter. So that 44 on your human meter was far too low. I'd stick with 1 u for now.
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Ok thank you. I'll test again soon. Yes I would never do the 2 units after all I went through with Teddy. It was the vet that did that.
I actaully haven't been giving much insulin at all since his numbers have been kind of low.
And now I'm kind of wishing I hadn't bought the alpha tracker because it's too hard right now to learn two sets of numbers/meanings! I just need to make a decision about which I'm going to use. Is there a different spreadsheet if you use an alpha tracker? Because wouldn't the color codes be different?
 
JanetNJ said:
69 is a safe number and he'll probably start going up now that he's past nadir, but don't feed now and test again in 20 and just make sure it's not going down.

So proud of you for staying calm cool and collected this time! High five!
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Thanks!! :rolleyes: I'm trying and everything is going good. Poor Teddy doesn't need any more stress for today, especially from his own mama lol
 
There is a different SS for AT. We do have some people who use AT only when doing curves for their vet and they just include that info in the SS on those days. I agree to just pick one and stick with it...doesn't really matter which as long as we know!
 
Yong said:
I can just convert your current one if need be, just let me know which you decide to stick with :)
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Aw thanks! I wish I would have known more before I bought it. Because now I'm feeling like the human one I am understanding...and it's so much cheaper. I am indecisive....
thanks for being so kind!
 
I'd say stick with the human one since it's more budget friendly. Tell me all the Vet readings and what cell (+1, +2, etc) they go in. I'll make notes they were AT2 readings at the Vet.
 
shawna said:
Aw thanks! I wish I would have known more before I bought it. Because now I'm feeling like the human one I am understanding...and it's so much cheaper. I am indecisive....
thanks for being so kind!
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You can probably return the Alphatrak of you don't want it. The Alphatrak is the real number as it's configured for cat blood. The human one is low.... But either will let you track trends and let you know when he's low or high.
 
Wow! Look at that terrific AMPS after no insulin last night! The 2 u given by the vet would have worn off too. This is wonderful! Is he eating?
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Wow! Look at that terrific AMPS after no insulin last night! The 2 u given by the vet would have worn off too. This is wonderful! Is he eating?
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Yes the minute he came home he ate like crazy! And he ate his breakfast and right now he is gobbling a snack down. It is so good to see him eating. :)
Speaking of food, is there a place where you can find out carbs of foods? I don't ever see it on the cat food cans? I've searched but I think I am missing the obvious somewhere? :confused:Lol... but he is gobbling down purine one true instinct because when he wouldn't eat I had bought a variety - but I'm trying to figure out if this is a low carb one?
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Wow! Look at that terrific AMPS after no insulin last night! The 2 u given by the vet would have worn off too. This is wonderful! Is he eating?
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Ok I need to ask you something else though!! I just did a new thread asking about the accuracy of back to back testing.
This morning I only got a teeny bit of blood and I was expecting to see the error sign. Usually I wouldn't even try and waste a test strip. But it did read and it said 221
I tried it again with the usual amount of blood that just fills up that little part of the test strip and it said 117!! That's a huge difference. Then I tried again and it said 111.
So I just put the 117 because I thought I would just ask about it.
What do you think ?????
 
JanetNJ said:
You can probably return the Alphatrak of you don't want it. The Alphatrak is the real number as it's configured for cat blood. The human one is low.... But either will let you track trends and let you know when he's low or high.
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I am so indecisive lol. And to be honest I think I'm just so mentally tired to learn a whole set of numbers. Or maybe I am lazy lol. But I want to use the alpha tracker and then I think of how much the test strips will be, which I can buy but need to just decide. I have a hard time making minor decisions LOL
 
Yong said:
I'd say stick with the human one since it's more budget friendly. Tell me all the Vet readings and what cell (+1, +2, etc) they go in. I'll make notes they were AT2 readings at the Vet.
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Oh wow you are the best!!!! Wow.... thanks lol
Yesterday he had
8am 209
10am 314
*first insulin of the day at 10am, 2 units
2pm 192

My morning am reading was at 6am.

And then the other readings already on yesterday at my human reader tests.

Thank you!! And I am going to calculate the cost of using the alpha and then I'll decide. Until then I'm going to keep using the people one.

Thanks again!!! :smuggrin:
 
I replied on your other thread, but I'll also add this here: I think the reason you got such wildly different numbers this AM could be the amount of blood. If it's not enough but doesn't throw an error, it can give you a reading that isn't right.
 
Rachel said:
I replied on your other thread, but I'll also add this here: I think the reason you got such wildly different numbers this AM could be the amount of blood. If it's not enough but doesn't throw an error, it can give you a reading that isn't right.
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Ok thanks, that is what I thought might of happened because the first time was such a tiny speck of blood i shouldn't of even tried, I should of just redid the little poke. Yeah I wasn't too worried this morning. I am getting paranoid too because I have given him any insulin lately ..... I mean I know that should be a good thing? but for some reason I'm getting worried maybe I'm doing something wrong, even though I don't think I am.
 
shawna said:
Yes the minute he came home he ate like crazy! And he ate his breakfast and right now he is gobbling a snack down. It is so good to see him eating. :)
Speaking of food, is there a place where you can find out carbs of foods? I don't ever see it on the cat food cans? I've searched but I think I am missing the obvious somewhere? :confused:Lol... but he is gobbling down purine one true instinct because when he wouldn't eat I had bought a variety - but I'm trying to figure out if this is a low carb one?
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It's so good to hear he's eating!!!
Here is a link to the food list we use. You usually have to write to companies and ask them for the carb info, or you can do a rough calculation, but those are just approximate. Thankfully, Dr. Lisa has done a ton of research for us!

http://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf
 
Ok Shawna, I think I updated them in the proper time slots. Let me know :). If there's a food you find not listed on that list, I can do a guesstimate calculation for you or use the carb calculator in my signature :smuggrin:
 
Yong said:
Ok Shawna, I think I updated them in the proper time slots. Let me know :). If there's a food you find not listed on that list, I can do a guesstimate calculation for you or use the carb calculator in my signature :smuggrin:
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Hey there!! I thought I had responded to your comment here - I am sorry! Thank you SO MUCH for doing that!!!! Yes you put them in the proper time slots - I really appreciate you!
And awesome about the food/carbs - thanks!!
 
Hey Shawna, I saw in your notes Teddy has not had a BM since Vet visit on Monday. I wonder if a car ride would make him poo, or a dip in a tub? Just trying to think of some relief at home. Maybe others will chime in on my suggestions. @Rachel @Djamila
 
Yong said:
Hey Shawna, I saw in your notes Teddy has not had a BM since Vet visit on Monday. I wonder if a car ride would make him poo, or a dip in a tub? Just trying to think of some relief at home. Maybe others will chime in on my suggestions. @Rachel @Djamila
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See if the vet will let you just bring him in to scare the crap out of him again. ;). Just treasing...
 
My vet said that by day three with no poop, action needs to be taken. Since it looks like this is day five, I agree with Yong and Rachel that something should be done. Hopefully the remedy will arrive today and can be started right away. If it's not arriving, I would add some miralax to his food asap (you can get it at any pharmacy/grocery store), some pumpkin, or something that might make him go on his own like Yong suggested. Maybe drive him to the vet -- even if they're closed, maybe it will be enough to get him to poop?
 
Update on Teddy...it absolutely warmed my heart to see you sweet people checking in on Teddy. I'll always have such a special place in my heart for you all!
I was going to update after I do his shot and dinner here in a minute. So thank you for caring!! xoxox

The PetAlive Moves that Kris and her friend told me about arrived this afternoon from Amazon....I gave it to him and that plus the upped Miralax doses I had given him the last couple days...:well within two hours of giving the PetAlive Move supplement.....he sure went....:oops: everywhere! And a lot. I am so thankful he at least went on the tiled area where the wee wee pads are (he still won't use any litter box) instead of having an accident on the couch or carpet areas. I would have still be relieved he just went - but I'm so thankful!! That would have been a horrifying mess LOL

Yong, good idea about the dipping in water or car ride!

Djamila, I've been giving him miralax for a week and nothing. I called the vet yesterday and she just keeps saying give more miralax. I need to request the advice of my main vet next time I call. So I upped the dose of miralax to a whole teaspoon twice a day and also with that stuff that came today giving him that too today.... he sure went! I'm going to have to find a happy medium with this stuff though so it's not all liquid.

And Janet, LOL, I bet the vet would let me just borrow a room...that's too funny!
For the dosage - I wanted to see if I could get him in the greens when I can monitor him? I am wondering if eating food changes the nadir : lowest point? (Does nadir the letters stand for something specific or am I just not thinking?)
Today he did eat a few bites within the two hours before the last shot, so I don't know, but I didn't want to stop him from eating. I'll try the curve again tomorrow. I think I'm missing something about understanding how to do a curve....is the lowest point for a cat always the lowest point or does it change?

Kris - thank you for linking me to find the information on this stuff for his constipation! I have a feeling it's going to work like a charm!

@Yong @Kris & Teasel @JanetNJ @Rachel @Djamila


Xoxoxoxo:bighug:
 
Lowest point (nadir) can move around, just like ideal dose can also change. Full curve: BG test every 2 hours from AMPS to PMPS. Keep feeding schedule normal, don't fast him or anything. He had a beautiful cycle this morning :)
 
shawna said:
Update on Teddy...it absolutely warmed my heart to see you sweet people checking in on Teddy. I'll always have such a special place in my heart for you all!
I was going to update after I do his shot and dinner here in a minute. So thank you for caring!! xoxox

The PetAlive Moves that Kris and her friend told me about arrived this afternoon from Amazon....I gave it to him and that plus the upped Miralax doses I had given him the last couple days...:well within two hours of giving the PetAlive Move supplement.....he sure went....:oops: everywhere! And a lot. I am so thankful he at least went on the tiled area where the wee wee pads are (he still won't use any litter box) instead of having an accident on the couch or carpet areas. I would have still be relieved he just went - but I'm so thankful!! That would have been a horrifying mess LOL

Yong, good idea about the dipping in water or car ride!

Djamila, I've been giving him miralax for a week and nothing. I called the vet yesterday and she just keeps saying give more miralax. I need to request the advice of my main vet next time I call. So I upped the dose of miralax to a whole teaspoon twice a day and also with that stuff that came today giving him that too today.... he sure went! I'm going to have to find a happy medium with this stuff though so it's not all liquid.

And Janet, LOL, I bet the vet would let me just borrow a room...that's too funny!
For the dosage - I wanted to see if I could get him in the greens when I can monitor him? I am wondering if eating food changes the nadir : lowest point? (Does nadir the letters stand for something specific or am I just not thinking?)
Today he did eat a few bites within the two hours before the last shot, so I don't know, but I didn't want to stop him from eating. I'll try the curve again tomorrow. I think I'm missing something about understanding how to do a curve....is the lowest point for a cat always the lowest point or does it change?

Kris - thank you for linking me to find the information on this stuff for his constipation! I have a feeling it's going to work like a charm!

@Yong @Kris & Teasel @JanetNJ @Rachel @Djamila


Xoxoxoxo:bighug:
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Nadir sometimes varies. My cats lowest was always either +5 or +6. Glad he pooped!
 
Sounds like the miralax isn't his thing. It doesn't work for all cats. I'm so glad the other remedy came and seems to have done the trick! Sorry about the mess though! Yuck! That was awfully considerate of him to leave it in the tiled area for you!
 
Phew! Glad he finally went...looks like the new stuff is working for him! Also very glad it was on the tiled area..that would NOT be a fun mess for you!

Nadir can move around, especially as they start to feel better. That's why a curve is usually every 2 hours...sometimes people go every hour between +5 and +7 to catch the nadir...but even if you don't we can pretty much guess when the nadir is from the every 2 hours. :)
 
Yong said:
Lowest point (nadir) can move around, just like ideal dose can also change. Full curve: BG test every 2 hours from AMPS to PMPS. Keep feeding schedule normal, don't fast him or anything. He had a beautiful cycle this morning :)
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If his pm pre shot is 95 I shouldn't give any insulin right? Just checking what you would do.

The only thing is that when I'm at work I don't know if he eats or not (I doubt it) and when I am home I give him some snacks because I want him to get stronger since he had lost so much weight. So that's the only confusion to me....if the food will mess his up. Or if maybe I should just only feed him AM and PM meals and then he can have snacks after PM test....
 
JanetNJ said:
Nadir sometimes varies. My cats lowest was always either +5 or +6. Glad he pooped!
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Me too! I need to figure out the easiest way to give him this stuff though - it's green and smells bad and he won't touch food if it's been mixed in - and the pill is kinda big - it's 1/2 capsule morning and night, it's powder in there. So today I syringed it into his mouth with water and he was hating every second and foaming at the mouth....so it would be nice to find the easiest way. Maybe I can buy small gel capsules and make my own smaller ones with 1/2.
 
shawna said:
Me too! I need to figure out the easiest way to give him this stuff though - it's green and smells bad and he won't touch food if it's been mixed in - and the pill is kinda big - it's 1/2 capsule morning and night, it's powder in there. So today I syringed it into his mouth with water and he was hating every second and foaming at the mouth....so it would be nice to find the easiest way. Maybe I can buy small gel capsules and make my own smaller ones with 1/2.
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I think @Beth 73 said she syringes it into her kitty, Elmo.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I think @Beth 73 said she syringes it into her kitty, Elmo.
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Ok thanks! I'm either going to do that or maybe try the smaller gel caps and fill them with 1/2 to give twice a day. He is easy to pull if the pill is smaller.
Otherwise the syringing will be worth it, he just fights it.
 
Rachel said:
Phew! Glad he finally went...looks like the new stuff is working for him! Also very glad it was on the tiled area..that would NOT be a fun mess for you!

Nadir can move around, especially as they start to feel better. That's why a curve is usually every 2 hours...sometimes people go every hour between +5 and +7 to catch the nadir...but even if you don't we can pretty much guess when the nadir is from the every 2 hours. :)
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Thanks! I'm going to keep trying to understand and get better at all of this.
Why do people want to know the nadir, so they can know if they can give pm insulin???
 
shawna said:
Me too! I need to figure out the easiest way to give him this stuff though - it's green and smells bad and he won't touch food if it's been mixed in - and the pill is kinda big - it's 1/2 capsule morning and night, it's powder in there. So today I syringed it into his mouth with water and he was hating every second and foaming at the mouth....so it would be nice to find the easiest way. Maybe I can buy small gel capsules and make my own smaller ones with 1/2.
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You definitely can get smaller gel capsules. I bought size 5 caps on amazon.
 
shawna said:
If his pm pre shot is 95 I shouldn't give any insulin right? Just checking what you would do.

The only thing is that when I'm at work I don't know if he eats or not (I doubt it) and when I am home I give him some snacks because I want him to get stronger since he had lost so much weight. So that's the only confusion to me....if the food will mess his up. Or if maybe I should just only feed him AM and PM meals and then he can have snacks after PM test....
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Def no shoot! What a great preshot!!! I am telling you, he's on his way to Remissionville
 
shawna said:
Thanks! I'm going to keep trying to understand and get better at all of this.
Why do people want to know the nadir, so they can know if they can give pm insulin???
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It's important to know the nadir for a couple of different reasons. The first reason is safety: Since the nadir is the point in the cycle when the BG is at its lowest, knowing the BG number at that point tells you if the cat is in numbers that are safe, or if he's going hypoglycemic. Hypos can happen at any point in the cycle, but if a cat hits nadir at +6, and a person only tests at +3 and +8, they might think that the cat is doing fine, when really he's hitting hypo numbers every day, just not when he's being tested. If that goes undetected enough times, or severely enough, it can kill the cat. Conversely, if you assume a cat is going lower, but aren't testing at the right time, he could be sitting in numbers that are too high every day, and that's bad too.

Second, knowing how much change there is between the pre-shot number and the nadir tells you if the dose is working or not. For cats in higher numbers than Teddy gets, they would want a drop of about 50% for a "good" cycle. As the pre-shot numbers get lower, you don't need or want that much of a drop. So the difference between the pre-shot and the nadir can tell you if the dose needs to be increased or decreased or maintained.

Finally (well, there might be more, but this is the last one I can think of right now), if you know the nadir, you don't have to test as many times/day. This one does depend on how consistently your kitty responds to insulin though. If a cat is inconsistent and bouncy, this last reason doesn't apply because on kitties like that, their nadir will move around, and they can sometimes drop early or late in the cycle, so those kitties need to be tested more often anyway. But if you have a cat like Sam (my cat), he gets pretty consistent responses, so I only need to test him around his nadir most of the time. I just test to keep an eye on how effective a dose is. Sometimes I'm a little before or after his nadir, but I get as close to it as I can. Also, his nadir doesn't move around very much, so that helps too.
 
To add to the second reason: knowing how low he drops tells you if his numbers at preshot are bounces too. If you have preshots in reds and blacks, and the cat is getting into blues and greens at nadir, you can pretty much tell that's a bounce.

Basically, while depot insulins like Lantus and Lev are dosed on nadir, Prozinc is dosed on nadir AND preshots. We take the two numbers together and, using that and any data we have on the cat, decide on a dose.
 
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