New job! Schedule questions

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Caitlin M

Caitlin M

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Hello all! As it says, I got a new job and begin on Monday, April 10. It's much more money and I'm looking forward to the position in general. The downside is, I won't be home to do the 12 hour schedule. I'll still be leaving at 5am each morning and depending on traffic won't be home until around 6pm. I can push Pita's shot back to around 5am right before I leave (instead of the current 4am time), but that would still be about 13 hours until I'm home. I feel terrible but at the same time it'll be better for me financially. I don't know what to do but figured I have 11 days to hopefully figure it out. Help please?!
 
Although a 12 hour schedule works well Prozinc is more "forgiving" with the timing. If you do an 11/13 or if worse comes to worse 10/14 schedule the only thing you need to know is that the numbers are rising before you shoot. The only down side is that you won't be able to get mid cycle testing except on your day(s) off.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
Although a 12 hour schedule works well Prozinc is more "forgiving" with the timing. If you do an 11/13 or if worse comes to worse 10/14 schedule the only thing you need to know is that the numbers are rising before you shoot. The only down side is that you won't be able to get mid cycle testing except on your day(s) off.
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I couldn't get mid cycle testing except on my days off anyway, so that's not new at least. I also don't mind (trying to) waking up in the middle of the night to test! So besides seeing a good pre shot number, how would I know that it's rising if I did the 11/13?
 
I was also going to say that you can go to a 13/11 or similar schedule and might have to dose differently AM and PM to accommodate the variation in length of cycle. ProZinc is quite flexible that way.
 
Grats on the new job! :)
Here's the section from the Sticky:
11/13 OR 13/11 DOSING

If your cat consistently has a lower AMPS or PMPS (or vise versa) AND IS NOT BOUNCING CONSISTENTLY, you might consider shooting early for the higher pre-shot number and later for the lower pre-shot number.

If the AMPS is high or normal, but 12 hours later the PMPS is too low either because of long duration and/or the nadir is late, you have two options:
  • 1. Shoot the am dose one hour early (+11 relative to previous night’s pm dose) and leave the pm dose at normal time which will then be +13 since the am dose.
  • - OR -
  • 2. Leave the am dose at its normal time and shoot the pm dose one hour later which will be +13 since am dose. Either way, you need to see this as an issue and pattern over a few cycles to go this route.

This technique can also be used if the PMPS is high and the AMPS is too low.

The hope here is to smooth out the cycle and have two shootable numbers every 12 hours. It would, as always, be wise to seek advice from your vet or on the forum about this technique.

NOTE: If you are confused about bouncing, see the ProZinc/ PZI Protocol sticky or ask on the forum. You do not want to use this technique if your cat is continually bouncing from lower numbers.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I was also going to say that you can go to a 13/11 or similar schedule and might have to dose differently AM and PM to accommodate the variation in length of cycle. ProZinc is quite flexible that way.
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Well that's a relief to say the least! I'm guessing he would need a lower dose at the 11 and higher at 13. I have all week to play around. How do I start that?
 
If at all possible to grab a test during the night that would give you a good idea on where the cycle went.
 
Yong said:
Grats on the new job! :)
Here's the section from the Sticky:
11/13 OR 13/11 DOSING

If your cat consistently has a lower AMPS or PMPS (or vise versa) AND IS NOT BOUNCING CONSISTENTLY, you might consider shooting early for the higher pre-shot number and later for the lower pre-shot number.

If the AMPS is high or normal, but 12 hours later the PMPS is too low either because of long duration and/or the nadir is late, you have two options:
  • 1. Shoot the am dose one hour early (+11 relative to previous night’s pm dose) and leave the pm dose at normal time which will then be +13 since the am dose.
  • - OR -
  • 2. Leave the am dose at its normal time and shoot the pm dose one hour later which will be +13 since am dose. Either way, you need to see this as an issue and pattern over a few cycles to go this route.

This technique can also be used if the PMPS is high and the AMPS is too low.

The hope here is to smooth out the cycle and have two shootable numbers every 12 hours. It would, as always, be wise to seek advice from your vet or on the forum about this technique.

NOTE: If you are confused about bouncing, see the ProZinc/ PZI Protocol sticky or ask on the forum. You do not want to use this technique if your cat is continually bouncing from lower numbers.
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Oh gosh, I get it but now I'm nervous I'm gonna mess him up somehow!
 
Also, should I slowly go to the 11/13 over a few days or just go right into it and have the next 11 days to tinker around?
 
Congrats!!!! 11\13 is certainly doable. I think you could switch this week so you have time to play around with it some.
 
Rachel said:
Congrats!!!! 11\13 is certainly doable. I think you could switch this week so you have time to play around with it some.
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Djamila said:
Congrats on the new job! That's great!
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Thank you both!

If I start tomorrow, do you think I should just push the shots back by 15 minutes and see how it goes? I'll definitely need help with dosing because I'm prepared for numbers to be wacky
 
I'm curious what more expert people think, but I wonder if it's like when we stall? Tonight I stalled for 40 minutes, so by the time he ate and got his shot, the shot was nearly an hour late. But then in the morning, I can still give him his shot at the usual time (although I might use that as an excuse to sleep in an extra 20 minutes).

So you probably don't have to do 15 minute increments, but you could do it that way...and if nothing else, that might make the change in meal time easier on Pita. I don't know how fussy he is about dinner time, but if I moved dinner time by an hour all at once, there would be great wailing and gnashing of teeth around here. My ears are still ringing from the meow-fest that happened while I was stalling tonight!

So that's my theory...I have no idea if it's at all right though. :smuggrin:
 
Djamila said:
I'm curious what more expert people think, but I wonder if it's like when we stall? Tonight I stalled for 40 minutes, so by the time he ate and got his shot, the shot was nearly an hour late. But then in the morning, I can still give him his shot at the usual time (although I might use that as an excuse to sleep in an extra 20 minutes).

So you probably don't have to do 15 minute increments, but you could do it that way...and if nothing else, that might make the change in meal time easier on Pita. I don't know how fussy he is about dinner time, but if I moved dinner time by an hour all at once, there would be great wailing and gnashing of teeth around here. My ears are still ringing from the meow-fest that happened while I was stalling tonight!

So that's my theory...I have no idea if it's at all right though. :smuggrin:
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I love all of this Djamila! I forgot about the stalling and how that doesn't necessarily affect the next shot time (and yes to even sleeping 20 more minutes!) Oh Lord, the torture I would get if I waited an hour later to feed in the am! This is by far the truest statement. I'll slowly push up the am times but if I'm not even home until 6pm they can't bug me :p (at least on my work days) I'm also interested in the 'expert' advice but I'm very inclined to agree with your theories! Many thanks.
 
Yep, its kind of up to you. You CAN go back by an hour all at once...one of the beauties of ProZinc. But, to avoid the dinner time blues, you could do it by 15 min too. I changed my cats feeding times when I switched to a new job by 15 min increments over a weekend...Sat AM, breakfast at 5:15, Sat PM dinner at 5:30...until I hit 6 which was the new feeding time. We don't have any diabetics here at the moment, but to keep them happy and to avoid any sickness (they sometimes get nauseated if they eat too late) I did it like that.

So whatever works best for you and Pita! We'll certainly be checking in to see how you're doing and help you figure out a good dose as you transition. And we'll also want to hear about the new job!
 
I am so confused! I've been able to do the 11/13 time frame the past day and a half. He had a lower AMPS yesterday morning so I did a reduced dose, and his PMPS was a bit higher, but nothing out of the ordinary/ he also waited the 13 hours. I did a +5.5 to see where he was in that 11 hour frame and he was at 401. I just did his AMPS and he's at 457. I'm giving a regular 2 units but I'm so confused as to how he's going higher! I know at this point I'll see bouncing but those red numbers are a bit scary also. Definitely a whole new take on all of this that I don't understand yet. Plus I feel horrible about switching his time now since he had been doing so well :(
 
Those reds do seem a little surprising and out of place given his usual numbers. Any changes in food? extra stress? possible UTI? It doesn't seem like just shifting his shot should cause that. I flex Sam's shot fairly often because of work and that doesn't happen. Although maybe it's an ECID kind of thing.
 
If you're extending the length of the day cycle because of work, you might have to increase the AM dose a little to get the extra coverage. Conversely, the night cycle is shorter so you might have to decrease the PM dose a little. You'll have to do a bit of experimenting. You could start by leaving the doses the same to gather baseline data and go from there. Also, remember that many kitties go lower at night for any number of reasons.
 
Djamila said:
Those reds do seem a little surprising and out of place given his usual numbers. Any changes in food? extra stress? possible UTI? It doesn't seem like just shifting his shot should cause that. I flex Sam's shot fairly often because of work and that doesn't happen. Although maybe it's an ECID kind of thing.
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No food changes, don't know where extra stress would come from and God I hope not! He seems to be urinating/drinking normally. I'll see what his PMPS brings soon.
Kris & Teasel said:
If you're extending the length of the day cycle because of work, you might have to increase the AM dose a little to get the extra coverage. Conversely, the night cycle is shorter so you might have to decrease the PM dose a little. You'll have to do a bit of experimenting. You could start by leaving the doses the same to gather baseline data and go from there. Also, remember that many kitties go lower at night for any number of reasons.
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Yes, I figured as much with the more in am/less in pm dosing. I went with the decrease when his AMPS was in the 100's the other day. I kind of wish I had given a slightly higher dose this am when the 400's showed up, but I didn't :confused: Now of course, going back to work tomorrow, I don't want to do an increase since I won't be home. I'll see what tonight brings. Thank you!
Rachel said:
Any possibility he got into contraband?
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I only have canned food and unless he can open my drawer and a plastic container, I'm gonna say no :p Although he is smart......hmmm.

Besides seeing his PMPS soon, I'm wondering if I should seriously look into a timed feeder. I've always only fed at 12 hour intervals but I'm wondering if 13 is pushing it and can negatively affect him. If I do get one, can I put wet food into it? I want to keep dry food as testing treats only. All thoughts welcome with the midday feeding because of 13 hours!
 
Hey Caitlin! Sorry I wasn't around earlier...just got back from seeing Beauty and the Beast. Not gonna lie...shed a few tears.

If I was you, I think I'd look into a timed feeder. Giving him a snack midday will help tide him over until dinner. Plus then you can know he will have food available if he's going low at all during the day. I'm sure the extra hour of waiting for dinner won't kill him, but it could cause an upset tummy possibly or just a mad kitty! :blackeye:
 
Rachel said:
Hey Caitlin! Sorry I wasn't around earlier...just got back from seeing Beauty and the Beast. Not gonna lie...shed a few tears.

If I was you, I think I'd look into a timed feeder. Giving him a snack midday will help tide him over until dinner. Plus then you can know he will have food available if he's going low at all during the day. I'm sure the extra hour of waiting for dinner won't kill him, but it could cause an upset tummy possibly or just a mad kitty! :blackeye:
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Haha I've heard it was good! Thanks, I think I'll get one and see how it goes. I won't be sure that Pita will even get to eat any if his brother gets to it first, but I can monitor them next weekend!
Yong said:
When the idea vocalized, Maury decided he didn't want 11/13 o_O
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Oooh, was gonna ask how it was going! Know anyone else who's on it?
 
Morning all! Had a nice AMPS of 188, looked at my SS and decided to do the 2 unit. Saw that on 3/25 his AMPS wasn't much higher and I did 2 units then. Plus a friend is stopping by while I'm out so they're going to put out some food around 1:30 today. Anyone who does midday feeding- how much food do you put out? I was thinking half a can (2.75 oz) but not sure if that's too much.
 
Caitlin M said:
Morning all! Had a nice AMPS of 188, looked at my SS and decided to do the 2 unit. Saw that on 3/25 his AMPS wasn't much higher and I did 2 units then. Plus a friend is stopping by while I'm out so they're going to put out some food around 1:30 today. Anyone who does midday feeding- how much food do you put out? I was thinking half a can (2.75 oz) but not sure if that's too much.
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How's Pita's weight? If he's OK or needs to gain, half a can should be fine.
 
Wow! What a low AMPS. I think some food would be good for this afternoon...that's a lower number than you've shot before I believe.

Hope the feeder makes life easier for ya!
 
Rachel said:
Wow! What a low AMPS. I think some food would be good for this afternoon...that's a lower number than you've shot before I believe.

Hope the feeder makes life easier for ya!
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It is the lowest! I was so torn about the dose but decided to go with it. Hoping the feeder works well, thanks :)
 
Let us know! I've been wanting a feeder but never got around to ordering one. did you get the petsafe?
 
Whew! Brave! It's good that your friend is stopping by. Have you established a "no shot" number" yet? It's good to have this worked out in your mind beforehand. Doesn't necessarily mean no shot - it could also mean stall/retest or shoot a token dose. I'm not trying to alarm you by asking. We can push the envelope once we have a lot of data but we need to be prepared.

BTW - shooting on a low PS like a green as I've done with Teasel is a Lantus thing. It's a slower onset insulin.
 
Glad your friend stopped by to bring food! That is a pretty low number to shoot, even if there was a timed feeder. I would go with Kris' suggestion to decide on a no-shot number, especially for cycles when you won't be able to monitor. It's okay to skip a shot, or shoot a very tiny amount, when the numbers warrant it.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Whew! Brave! It's good that your friend is stopping by. Have you established a "no shot" number" yet? It's good to have this worked out in your mind beforehand. Doesn't necessarily mean no shot - it could also mean stall/retest or shoot a token dose. I'm not trying to alarm you by asking. We can push the envelope once we have a lot of data but we need to be prepared.

BTW - shooting on a low PS like a green as I've done with Teasel is a Lantus thing. It's a slower onset insulin.
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Oh gosh, I'm so nervous now! I have no idea what my no shoot # should be. Any recommendations? I usually give him his shot right before I leave so I wouldn't even be able to retest except Wed, Sat, Sun. I thought ProZinc was also slower...? :nailbiting:
 
Caitlin M said:
Oh gosh, I'm so nervous now! I have no idea what my no shoot # should be. Any recommendations? I usually give him his shot right before I leave so I wouldn't even be able to retest except Wed, Sat, Sun. I thought ProZinc was also slower...? :nailbiting:
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ProZinc is slower than, say, Vetsulin, but not nearly as slow as Lantus. Maybe try 150 as your no shot number? That still requires data, experience and bravery. Maybe raise it on work days?
 
Yes, you would. Your no shot number is your comfort/experience cut off below which you don't give insulin UNLESS 1. you stall/retest/give a lower dose 2. give a tiny token dose - eg. 0.5 u. If you have to leave or aren't feeling brave when your NS number happens you go with the NS option.

Here's the way it can be broken down;

Yikes! Pita is below 150 for PS! (or 180 or 200, etc.). What are my options????
  1. stall 20 min/retest/repeat until at your NS number then give a slightly lowered dose (guesswork + experience)
  2. give a small token dose so he has some insulin in him (how small depends on the size of dose he's at) because you have to leave
  3. no shot.
While it's the safest, option 3 is least desirable. Something else I did successfully was to feed Teasel, wait 45 minutes or so, retest (BG would be up from food) and give him his normal dose. I'm able to monitor though.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Yes, you would. Your no shot number is your comfort/experience cut off below which you don't give insulin UNLESS 1. you stall/retest/give a lower dose 2. give a tiny token dose - eg. 0.5 u. If you have to leave or aren't feeling brave when your NS number happens you go with the NS option.

Here's the way it can be broken down;

Yikes! Pita is below 150 for PS! (or 180 or 200, etc.). What are my options????
  1. stall 20 min/retest/repeat until at your NS number then give a slightly lowered dose (guesswork + experience)
  2. give a small token dose so he has some insulin in him (how small depends on the size of dose he's at) because you have to leave
  3. no shot.
While it's the safest, option 3 is least desirable. Something else I did successfully was to feed Teasel, wait 45 minutes or so, retest (BG would be up from food) and give him his normal dose. I'm able to monitor though.
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Thank you SO much for all of that, I appreciate it.
 
When you say stall, do you mean stall feeding also or would I feed, stall the dose, then retest?
 
Caitlin M said:
When you say stall, do you mean stall feeding also or would I feed, stall the dose, then retest?
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I mean do the PS test and if it's low wait without giving food for about 20 minutes then retest. It's to see if the BG is on the rise on its own. You can repeat up to an hour total of stalling without food. If the BG is rising it's safer to give a larger dose.
 
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