Help with dosing Buddy

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Teresa & KitKat

Teresa & KitKat

Very Active Member
My cat Buddy was at the vet checking curves, he had been on 3 units, she upped it to 5 units. When I brought him home last night I took his reading it was 41. I waited a while and took it again it was 35. At 10:00 p.m. his reading was 85. I did not give him a dose last night. This morning he was at 457 so I gave him 4 units. I took a reading about 1 hr ago and it was 239. Does anyone have an idea what amount of ProZinc I should give him. Please help me.

Thank you,
Teresa
 
They jumped from 3 units to 5???? Holy cow. That is a HUGE dose and a really dangerous jump. Do you take curves at home? If you could plug your readings into a spreadsheet it would make it easiest to give you advice. Honestly I'm willing to bet 4 was even too much.... 5 could have been deadly.

Cats are sensitive after a hypoglycemic event.... I wouldn't give more than 1.
 
Wow! That's a tough one. Sounds like he's getting too much insulin. I agree, the spreadsheet would really help us to give you some advice. What did you end up giving?
 
I haven't giving anything yet, I am going to test again. Buddy did eat a little bit about an hour ago, so I thought I would test again. I an new to this I will post what I give.
Thank you,

Teresa
 
That is another option available. When you are unsure if you should give insulin on a "lower" number you can feed, wait 2 hours then test and give insulin based on that reading.
That dose would have to take into consideration that he won't have a increase from food after it, if you feed only twice a day. It will also delay your next dose by however many hours you stall or by the 2 hours.
His number will be higher one hour after eating due to the meal and no insulin. It's best to wait 2 hours after so the number isn't food influenced.
Did you do any pre-meal testing before the dose increase? Or any mid cycle tests before when he was only getting 3 units?
These numbers would be helpful to see how he reacts to insulin and how much the 3 units was dropping his numbers.
Janet did bring up a good point that after a hypoglycemic event like last night he could be sensitive to his next dose.
You also have the option to skip insulin again tonight and get more tests in to see how food increases his numbers.
 
I took a reading at 9:31 p.m. and his reading was 304, I gave him 1.5 units. I did not know what to do, I just do not want to hurt him. What do you think I should have gave him. I would like to use the spread sheet but I do not have office on my laptop and my desktop bit the desk. Pray for Buddy, he is a good cat.
Bud's Mom
 
wolfey said:
I took a reading at 9:31 p.m. and his reading was 304, I gave him 1.5 units. I did not know what to do, I just do not want to hurt him. What do you think I should have gave him. I would like to use the spread sheet but I do not have office on my laptop and my desktop bit the desk. Pray for Buddy, he is a good cat.
Bud's Mom
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You don't need Office to use our spread sheet. It's a web-based google sheet. These are the instructions for setting it up:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

I don't know if you've posted this info elsewhere but we can help you better if we know:
  1. when Buddy was diagnosed
  2. what dose of ProZinc he was started on
  3. what glucose meter you use
  4. what your glucose testing routine is
  5. what kind of food Buddy eats.
 
Hi Teresa - glad you posted over in this forum too. Some good help is being given. I'm glad you joined the forum and you are helping your kitty.
 
wolfey said:
I took a reading at 9:31 p.m. and his reading was 304, I gave him 1.5 units. I did not know what to do, I just do not want to hurt him. What do you think I should have gave him. I would like to use the spread sheet but I do not have office on my laptop and my desktop bit the desk. Pray for Buddy, he is a good cat.
Bud's Mom
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I completely understand the not wanting to hurt him! I'm 4 months into this and still freak out every now and then.
I think the 1.5 unit was a safe dose. Have you tested since the shot?
ProZinc usually peaks at 6 hours after the shot. This can depend on each cat too.
I would test 2 hours after and maybe 6 hours after to see how he's doing.
You can post the info here until you get your spreadsheet working.
You're at the right place for endless knowledge and support.
Does buddy get any food between shots?
 
StephG said:
I completely understand the not wanting to hurt him! I'm 4 months into this and still freak out every now and then.
I think the 1.5 unit was a safe dose. Have you tested since the shot?
ProZinc usually peaks at 6 hours after the shot. This can depend on each cat too.
I would test 2 hours after and maybe 6 hours after to see how he's doing.
You can post the info here until you get your spreadsheet working.
You're at the right place for endless knowledge and support.
Does buddy get any food between shots?
Click to expand...
 
I did test Buddy again at 11:12 and his number was 350. After that I thought I did not give him enough insulin. I feed Buddy 2 times a day because the vet wanted him on a strict diet. Tonight I let him have some food in between shots, but I have not done this before. I sure do need all the knowledge and support I can get. I appreciate all your help.
 
wolfey said:
I did test Buddy again at 11:12 and his number was 350. After that I thought I did not give him enough insulin. I feed Buddy 2 times a day because the vet wanted him on a strict diet. Tonight I let him have some food in between shots, but I have not done this before. I sure do need all the knowledge and support I can get. I appreciate all your help.
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That would be about 2 hours after his shot... I think it's normal to see a slight increase after the shot when after a meal. It takes about 2 hours to really kick in and start dropping the numbers. Every cat is different... At least that is how my cat is. Some days he doesn't increase after eating but most days he does. 3 to 6 or 8 hours is the time he is actively dropping.
Not giving enough is better than giving too much! If you can get another test between 3:30(+6) and 9:30(+12) am (your time) that would give you a number near or after the typical 6 hour post shot nadir.
Best to keep food up for 2 hours before preshot testing.
Test before meal. If you don't know what dose to give you can post here for some input or stall 20 minutes then test again.
Feed. I usually wait a few minutes to make sure he eats the whole meal and keeps it down if there's a history of "scarf & barf". Then give insulin shot.
If you're home to test getting a +2, +4 and +6 will show how well the insulin is working and how the meal increases his bg level (or if it doesn't).
It's NOT necessary to test that much but the more data you have the better you'll get at knowing your cat and how he reacts. If you look at my spreadsheet you'll see that I'm a bit obsessive about testing. Chuck is pretty laid back and doesn't mind the testing.
 
Also the food between tests is definitely OK and necessary when he has such a low BG reading. If it's low carb small snacks on a normal cycle (not going too low) it's probably OK. I would just keep track of when and how much you have for a snack so when you look at his history you'll know that he had a little extra food. A lot of people feed a few small meals a day instead of 2. I'm slowly working on Chuck getting more than just 2 a day.
 
Since you already have a meter, it would be easier on Buddy if you did his curves at home. Going to the vet can be so stressful that it can cause the BG to go up over 100 points. Then the vet increases the dose based on athe high BG number. Testing at home saves the extra money of a vet trip and it is safer for Buddy.
 
donnalea said:
Since you already have a meter, it would be easier on Buddy if you did his curves at home. Going to the vet can be so stressful that it can cause the BG to go up over 100 points. Then the vet increases the dose based on athe high BG number. Testing at home saves the extra money of a vet trip and it is safer for Buddy.
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True. Once I started testing at home I just emailed my vet her numbers.
 
How is Buddy this am? It does look like your vet increased by way too much from 3 units to 5. We usually suggest increasing by .25 or .5 at the most. As Donnalea said, curves at the vet can be stress influenced with much higher levels that you would get at home, and then doses prescribed can be too high.

Can you get some numbers at home today so we can help with possible dosing? A restart at a lower dose might be wise but maybe not back to one/1.5 unit. It depends on your home numbers.

If you are having trouble testing at home, we can help. The protocol we use for ProZinc and our Beginner's Guide is in my signature in blue and they may be helpful.

What are you feeding? Dry can raise numbers by 100+ points but changing to wet is tricky without home testing. We can help with the transition and the levels as you switch.
 
A lot of time has passed since my last post. I have been so stressed over this situation, I feel as though I have been beat up. Last night at 9:31 Buddy's number was 304 and I gave him 1.5 units of insulin. This morning @8:09 a.m. his number was 291, he ate but not all of his food. Around 8:30 a.m. I gave him 1 unit of insulin. I took another reading at noon and his number was 271. I think I am beginning to trust myself more than the vet. I am having problems getting blood except for 1 spot on his left ear, I think his ear is getting sore. Do you switch ears or use the same 1 all the time. Buddy eats Purina OM dry which he was eating before the diabetes and Royal Canin Glycobalance wet food, which the vet said worked but she did not know about FF. She wants him on the Royal Canin for now. I think a lot of these problems were caused by Buddy taking 5 mg 2X a day of prednisolone for 4 1/2 days. This started on 12/20 and around here all the vets were closed except 1. I took Buddy to that vet he did not even take his temperature until I asked him to, Buddy was dehydrated and he did not offer any fluids. He said Buddy was constipated and I needed to give him an enema, did I have any one to help me and I told him no. He gave Buddy an enema, I was so mad at myself for not grabbing Buddy and running out the door. If Buddy was constipated that was the least of his problems. I got him in on 12/26 to see a new vet and he was hospitalized for several days. The new vet does take after hrs. call but I am not to happy about the 5 units of insulin. I am hoping when the prednisolone gets out of his system things will calm down. Does any one have idea how long it could take to clear the prednisolone out of his system. All thoughts appreciated.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
You don't need Office to use our spread sheet. It's a web-based google sheet. These are the instructions for setting it up:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

I don't know if you've posted this info elsewhere but we can help you better if we know:
  1. when Buddy was diagnosed
  2. what dose of ProZinc he was started on
  3. what glucose meter you use
  4. what your glucose testing routine is
  5. what kind of food Buddy eats.
Click to expand...
Buddy was diagnosed on 12/26/16, he had taken prednisolone 5mg 2 x a day for 4 1/2 days starting on 12/20/16. He was given this by a vet who worked with his former doctor. His doctor was off for Christmas and the other vets were off starting on 12/22/16 and would not be back until 12/27/16. When Buddy started taking ProZinc he was on 3 units, and when I started taking readings they were in the 400's. I am really happy to see the lower numbers. I am using Reli-On micro, I took it to the vets one day and 1 of the techs compared her reading to mine and mine was 20 lower than hers. I do not have a routine yet, when I 1st started the vet told me to give him his shot 1st then feed. She told me most cat owners do not test and I did not at 1st. I am really glad I bought the meter. Buddy was eating Purina OM dry before the diabetes and it was on the list of things he could eat, also he is eating Royal Canin Glycobalance wet, the wet the vet wanted him to eat. I am going to start the spread sheet later today.
 
Oh, wow, that all sounds so stressful, you poor thing! Have to say, it doesn't sound like you are getting great support from your vet.

You have a lot of questions, let me pick off a couple that I'm most comfortable answering:

1) ear pokes. I also had a cat with "one good ear" for testing, so that ear got quite a workout. A couple things to help speed healing and decrease the chances of bruising/pain-- first, a little pressure on the spot after the poke/test (use a bit of tissue or cotton and lightly grip the ear) for 20 seconds or so will decrease bruising. Second, put a little dab of Neosporin/Polysporin antibiotic ointment (not the cream) on the ear, wait a bit, then gently wipe off excess with a tissue.

2) food. The dry food is most likely too high in carbs for a diabetic, but don't remove it all at once. Carbs in food can have a dramatic (100+pt) impact on blood glucose numbers. My guess is that eating the dry food is what has kept Buddy safe with the high doses of insulin he's been getting. Once you get comfortable with a testing routine, you can gradually reduce the dry, but the transition should be done when you can monitor closely, to prevent crashes like the recent one when you aren't around.

If the diabetes was caused by prednisone, Buddy's insulin needs may change rapidly now that he is off it, but every cat is different and that is outside my area of expertise so I'll leave the discussion to others.
 
wolfey said:
Buddy was diagnosed on 12/26/16, he had taken prednisolone 5mg 2 x a day for 4 1/2 days starting on 12/20/16. He was given this by a vet who worked with his former doctor. His doctor was off for Christmas and the other vets were off starting on 12/22/16 and would not be back until 12/27/16. When Buddy started taking ProZinc he was on 3 units, and when I started taking readings they were in the 400's. I am really happy to see the lower numbers. I am using Reli-On micro, I took it to the vets one day and 1 of the techs compared her reading to mine and mine was 20 lower than hers. I do not have a routine yet, when I 1st started the vet told me to give him his shot 1st then feed. She told me most cat owners do not test and I did not at 1st. I am really glad I bought the meter. Buddy was eating Purina OM dry before the diabetes and it was on the list of things he could eat, also he is eating Royal Canin Glycobalance wet, the wet the vet wanted him to eat. I am going to start the spread sheet later today.
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I feel your frustration! We can certainly help you. The protocol we use here is logical, practical and it works. It does require a small time commitment on your part, willingness to adopt a testing routine and setting up the spreadsheet we use here. Nab & Amber gave you good info. We have lots of tips to help make BG testing easier.
 
Thank you everyone. Buddy also has pancreatitis, after Friday evenings session Buddy was a bit stressed. Which led to nausea and not wanting to eat on Saturday. I finally got enough medicine down him to get him to eat. Today he seems better, still has sore ear. I am using 26 gauge lancets for alternate site use because I was not getting enough blood with the higher gauge, does anyone else use these.
 
wolfey said:
Thank you everyone. Buddy also has pancreatitis, after Friday evenings session Buddy was a bit stressed. Which led to nausea and not wanting to eat on Saturday. I finally got enough medicine down him to get him to eat. Today he seems better, still has sore ear. I am using 26 gauge lancets for alternate site use because I was not getting enough blood with the higher gauge, does anyone else use these.
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Pancreatitis is usually treated with anti nausea meds, appetitite stimulating meds, pain meds and often, sub Q fluids. Did your vet prescribe any of these?
 
Buddy, has anti-nausea meds, appetite stimulating meds, he has syringes with Buprenex to put on his gums, usually when he is having an episode and I take him to the vet they give him fluids. Yesterday and today I gave him anti-nausea meds, I have cerenia & ondansetron, I gave him Cyprohephadine appetite stimulate, I did not give him any Buprenex yesterday or today, but I have some here. He did not have fluids, I do not have any ringers here, I have not given Buddy fluids here, but I have given fluids to my cats in the past. When I gave Buddy the anti-nausea meds and the appetite stimulating meds he perked up and started eating. All of these meds were prescribed by the vet we used before 12/26/16. I learned a lot by joining the Yahoo group on Feline Pancreatitis.
 
wolfey said:
Buddy, has anti-nausea meds, appetite stimulating meds, he has syringes with Buprenex to put on his gums, usually when he is having an episode and I take him to the vet they give him fluids. Yesterday and today I gave him anti-nausea meds, I have cerenia & ondansetron, I gave him Cyprohephadine appetite stimulate, I did not give him any Buprenex yesterday or today, but I have some here. He did not have fluids, I do not have any ringers here, I have not given Buddy fluids here, but I have given fluids to my cats in the past. When I gave Buddy the anti-nausea meds and the appetite stimulating meds he perked up and started eating. All of these meds were prescribed by the vet we used before 12/26/16. I learned a lot by joining the Yahoo group on Feline Pancreatitis.
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Sounds like you're well prepared and know how to handle a flare of pancreatitis.

Re testing: are you warming up Buddy's ear well before poking? In the cold weather their cold ears makes getting blood a lot harder.
 
I'm not sure how long the prednisone will last in his system but it's possible now that he's off it his insulin requirements are already decreasing. He was on 3 units before with numbers in the 400s and now you're getting 200s with 1 or 1.5 units. I would trust your gut like you have been doing...and keep asking any and all questions here.
 
Well goodness you just have 5 million things going all at once! As his ear gets more used to testing it will bleed more easily. What questions do you have for us? I know you're under a lot of stress but it sounds like you're doing everything right!
 
I ran a test on Buddy before he ate this evening, his number was 315. I gave him 1.5 units of insulin. What would some of you have given him. I am lost trying to figure out what his insulin dose should be. I opened a Google account, I did not get the spread sheet, because I need new ink cartridges and there was to much to write down. As soon as I get the ink and can print out the instruction, I will start using the spread sheet. What is everyone using as a testing routine. I have not been warming his ear even though I have a sock with rice in it for that purpose.
 
If you'd like, we can certainly get someone to help you get the spreadsheet set up. We have some tech savvy folks who offer their help. Want me to tag someone? Just so it's one less thing you have to worry about. :)

As for testing routine, everyone is different. Personally, I had a testing spot (kitchen floor on a towel we kept for that purpose). As soon as I picked up the box of lancets, Gypsy came running. I warmed her ear just by rubbing it. She was a fairly easy bleeder and she really liked having me rub her ears...most use a rice sock, which is probably what I would do if I had a diabetic now. I usually rubbed a little neosporin on, did the prick (neosporin ointment helped the blood bead up) and got the test in. Then I'd dispense treats...I had an audience so everyone got one chicken treat, and Gypsy got 2 for being pricked.

I kept it pretty simple, but I think having one place to go to helped since she knew what would happen there. She expected it and wouldn't complain much since she got treats. :)
 
wolfey said:
I ran a test on Buddy before he ate this evening, his number was 315. I gave him 1.5 units of insulin. What would some of you have given him. I am lost trying to figure out what his insulin dose should be. I opened a Google account, I did not get the spread sheet, because I need new ink cartridges and there was to much to write down. As soon as I get the ink and can print out the instruction, I will start using the spread sheet. What is everyone using as a testing routine. I have not been warming his ear even though I have a sock with rice in it for that purpose.
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Here are the issues as I see them:
  • We can't really give good dosing advice until you have some data logged on the spreadsheet. We look at a dose in its context of BG numbers in the cycles prior to that dose, not only the actual BG just before you feed and shoot.
  • You can get someone on here to set up your spreadsheet for you very quickly. @Marje and Gracie is one of those people.
  • Warming his ear with the rice sock heated in the microwave can make the ear poking go so much better. Strongly recommended!
  • The testing routine we use here is: 1. test AM and PM before feeding and giving insulin (no food at least 2 hours beforehand so it doesn't affect BG) to see whether the dose is too high; 2. test once or twice in the +5 to +7 time range to see how low the dose takes the BG; 3. do a before bed test when you can manage it and extra on weekends if you work away from home week days.
 
The reason it's hard to give dose advice based on one number is that cats react differently to insulin. For example let's say three different cats all tested at 300. Each was given 1 u. Cat A might drop to 250. Cat B might drop to 150. Cat C might drop to 80. We have no way of knowing without seeing data for past numbers.
 
I have written down all of Buddy's blood draw numbers and times since he came back home on friday afternoon. When I get my spread sheet set up I will put I these in. I think that my Mother wants me to go out and do some shopping for her, when I get back I will see if I can get someone to help me set up a spreadsheet or do it myself. This morning Buddy was at 322 @ 5:01 a.m., I took it again at 7:42 a.m. and he was at 340. I then gave him his food, when he had ate I gave him 2units of insulin. If I am right I should give him this dose 3 times and then if needed raise .5 until Buddy is at the right number. What is the correct number I should be looking for. His new vet said she would happy if he was @250. I am beginning to wonder about her since she raised his insulin up 2 units to 5 units and then when he came home he crashed.
 
You're right to want to be cautious. Try to get that spreadsheet up and put in all the numbers you have. We need to see what's going on before we can advise.
 
How does everyone do about feeding between shots, Buddy is so starved he goes to his bowl and cries all the time. It just kills me not to feed him, does anyone feed in between shots, 12 hrs. is a long time to wait to eat. When Buddy was at the vet he got an insulin shot at 7 a.m. & 5 p.m. which is only 10 hrs, does anyone else do this. On 1 of the post someone mentioned that someone could help me set up the spreadsheet for Buddy, is this still possible. I think this needs to be done
 
wolfey said:
How does everyone do about feeding between shots, Buddy is so starved he goes to his bowl and cries all the time. It just kills me not to feed him, does anyone feed in between shots, 12 hrs. is a long time to wait to eat. When Buddy was at the vet he got an insulin shot at 7 a.m. & 5 p.m. which is only 10 hrs, does anyone else do this. On 1 of the post someone mentioned that someone could help me set up the spreadsheet for Buddy, is this still possible. I think this needs to be done
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Feed him. No reason not to. Just make sure to pick up the food two hours before preshot testing so the numbers are not food influenced.

Insulin should not be given 10 hours apart. 12 hours apart is the protocol. That being said there are times life has gotten in the way that I would have to adjust an hour give or take. 2 hours early is a lot though.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
How is Buddy this am? It does look like your vet increased by way too much from 3 units to 5. We usually suggest increasing by .25 or .5 at the most. As Donnalea said, curves at the vet can be stress influenced with much higher levels that you would get at home, and then doses prescribed can be too high.

Can you get some numbers at home today so we can help with possible dosing? A restart at a lower dose might be wise but maybe not back to one/1.5 unit. It depends on your home numbers. Sue & Oliver this is a few days late,

If you are having trouble testing at home, we can help. The protocol we use for ProZinc and our Beginner's Guide is in my signature in blue and they may be helpful.

What are you feeding? Dry can raise numbers by 100+ points but changing to wet is tricky without home testing. We can help with the transition and the levels as you switch.
Click to expand...
Sue &Oliver, this is a few days late. I tried to click on your signature in blue for the beginners guide, but it did not take me there. Yesterday @ 8:30 p.m. his number was 469, so I gave him 2 units of insulin, @ 10:53 he was @256, @ 1:33 he was at 49, I gave him some food and he came back to 153. At 4:40 a.m. he was@253, @ 7:44 a.m. he was @285. I was afraid if I gave him 2 units of insulin again he would get to those low #again. At 3:28 he was @ 312, so I guessed wrong again. I agree that I need the spreadsheet, my ink cartridges are done, when I went to buy them the store was out of them. I think that there is to much info to write down. Someone mentioned that there might be someone who could help me set up the spreadsheet. I need help with all of this, at this time I do not trust the vet.
 
JanetNJ said:
Feed him. No reason not to. Just make sure to pick up the food two hours before preshot testing so the numbers are not food influenced.

Insulin should not be given 10 hours apart. 12 hours apart is the protocol. That being said there are times life has gotten in the way that I would have to adjust an hour give or take. 2 hours early is a lot though.
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The vet has Buddy on a strict diet, he is to eat certain foods, in special amounts. He eats Purina Overweight Management dry (which he ate before diabetes) and wet food Royal Canin Glycobalance, which they sold me 2 cases of. He can have 2 1/2 cans of wet or 1 1/3 cup dry, or make allowances and feed both.
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
How is Buddy this am? It does look like your vet increased by way too much from 3 units to 5. We usually suggest increasing by .25 or .5 at the most. As Donnalea said, curves at the vet can be stress influenced with much higher levels that you would get at home, and then doses prescribed can be too high.

Can you get some numbers at home today so we can help with possible dosing? A restart at a lower dose might be wise but maybe not back to one/1.5 unit. It depends on your home numbers.

If you are having trouble testing at home, we can help. The protocol we use for ProZinc and our Beginner's Guide is in my signature in blue and they may be helpful.

What are you feeding? Dry can raise numbers by 100+ points but changing to wet is tricky without home testing. We can help with the transition and the levels as you switch.
Click to expand...
 
wolfey said:
Sue &Oliver, this is a few days late. I tried to click on your signature in blue for the beginners guide, but it did not take me there. Yesterday @ 8:30 p.m. his number was 469, so I gave him 2 units of insulin, @ 10:53 he was @256, @ 1:33 he was at 49, I gave him some food and he came back to 153. At 4:40 a.m. he was@253, @ 7:44 a.m. he was @285. I was afraid if I gave him 2 units of insulin again he would get to those low #again. At 3:28 he was @ 312, so I guessed wrong again. I agree that I need the spreadsheet, my ink cartridges are done, when I went to buy them the store was out of them. I think that there is to much info to write down. Someone mentioned that there might be someone who could help me set up the spreadsheet. I need help with all of this, at this time I do not trust the vet.
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Go back and reread my post above #31. I tagged someone who can help you with the spreadsheet. You need a systematic routine as soon as possible.
 
wolfey said:
The vet has Buddy on a strict diet, he is to eat certain foods, in special amounts. He eats Purina Overweight Management dry (which he ate before diabetes) and wet food Royal Canin Glycobalance, which they sold me 2 cases of. He can have 2 1/2 cans of wet or 1 1/3 cup dry, or make allowances and feed both.
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Just so you know, purina overweight management dry is 15% carb.... So much higher than is recommended for a diabetic cat. It's best to keep all food under 10%. If you are looking to keep him in dry, the only two dry that I know of under 10% are Evo cat and kitten in the purple bag and my favorite Young Again Zero carb.
 
wolfey said:
Sue &Oliver, this is a few days late. I tried to click on your signature in blue for the beginners guide, but it did not take me there. Yesterday @ 8:30 p.m. his number was 469, so I gave him 2 units of insulin, @ 10:53 he was @256, @ 1:33 he was at 49, I gave him some food and he came back to 153. At 4:40 a.m. he was@253, @ 7:44 a.m. he was @285. I was afraid if I gave him 2 units of insulin again he would get to those low #again. At 3:28 he was @ 312, so I guessed wrong again. I agree that I need the spreadsheet, my ink cartridges are done, when I went to buy them the store was out of them. I think that there is to much info to write down. Someone mentioned that there might be someone who could help me set up the spreadsheet. I need help with all of this, at this time I do not trust the vet.
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49 at +5 (5 hours after his shot) was too low. I think you were right to not give the 2 units again! Especially with a reading of 285. Once your spreadsheet is set up it will be easier to see the trend in his levels at each shot.
 
My vet told me the same thing about the food for Smoky. He was on RC SO for urinary issues for years. That is a very high carb food and I believe it contributed to him getting diabetes. It caused him to gain a lot of weight and was very expensive. In my experience vets are always trying to push these prescription foods onto us for our pets.
 
wolfey said:
How does everyone do about feeding between shots, Buddy is so starved he goes to his bowl and cries all the time. It just kills me not to feed him, does anyone feed in between shots, 12 hrs. is a long time to wait to eat. When Buddy was at the vet he got an insulin shot at 7 a.m. & 5 p.m. which is only 10 hrs, does anyone else do this. On 1 of the post someone mentioned that someone could help me set up the spreadsheet for Buddy, is this still possible. I think this needs to be done
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Feeding between shots is different for every cat. Again, once the spreadsheet is set up you can log in the comments section when he was given a snack and see how they influence his numbers. Carb free snacks could be an option if his food is pushing his numbers up too much. Chicken breast, meat & broth baby food (without cornstarch)...
I also wanted to tell you that my other cat is obese and not diabetic. He weighed in at 21 pounds at his heaviest. He has been switched to wet food and eats around 2 cans a day and is down from 19 pounds to 17.6 pounds just from the wet food.
 
So the high number you got after the low was a bounce. It is an odd concept. When a cat's body perceives a lower level than it is used to (like the 49) it panics and releases extra glucose. So, with the extra sugars, his level "bounce" up to to higher level. It is like an artificial number, caused not by the insulin but by the cat's body.

So I would reduce the dose. 49 "earns" a reduction in insulin. 50 is the range when we begin to intervene because it is approaching the hypo range.

The two documents are at the top of the page. They are permanent threads that you read but can't reply to. One is the protocol; another is the Beginner's Guide. If they bring up any questions, ask.

To reach Margie (she may not be on line but should see your message). Go up to the top of this page on the right hand side. Click on your name and choose Conversation. Start a conversation with Margie and Gracie.

I agree with everyone else that you can feed more often - as long as he is not overweight. Diabetic cats who are unregulated are literally starving as their bodies don't efficiently use the food. Just no food 2 hours before preshots so you are getting a number to base your dose on that is not food influenced.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Go back and reread my post above #31. I tagged someone who can help you with the spreadsheet. You need a systematic routine as soon as possible.
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I started a conversation tonight with Marje & Gracie because I did not know of any other way to get in touch with them. They have not answered, please let me know of another way to get in touch with them.
 
wolfey said:
I started a conversation tonight with Marje & Gracie because I did not know of any other way to get in touch with them. They have not answered, please let me know of another way to get in touch with them.
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I'd give her more time to answer. There's also been some technical trouble the last few days with people not getting alerts when someone is trying to reach them by PM.

While you're waiting to get the spreadsheet set up you can get yourself organized to do the testing routine we recommend:
  1. test BG before AM and PM meal/shot to see if planned dose is OK (no food at leat 2 hours before these tests);
  2. test at least once somewhere in the middle of the cycle (the 12 hours between shots) or before bed to see how low the dose takes the BG.
Put this data into the spreadsheet along with all your other data as soon as you have it set up. Can you open two windows on your computer at the same time? You could open the spreadsheet instructions in one window and the Google template in the other to set up the Spreadsheet without waiting for @Marje and Gracie to get back to you or having to print out the instructions.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I'd give her more time to answer. There's also been some technical trouble the last few days with people not getting alerts when someone is trying to reach them by PM.

While you're waiting to get the spreadsheet set up you can get yourself organized to do the testing routine we recommend:
  1. test BG before AM and PM meal/shot to see if planned dose is OK (no food at leat 2 hours before these tests);
  2. test at least once somewhere in the middle of the cycle (the 12 hours between shots) or before bed to see how low the dose takes the BG.
Put this data into the spreadsheet along with all your other data as soon as you have it set up. Can you open two windows on your computer at the same time? You could open the spreadsheet instructions in one window and the Google template in the other to set up the Spreadsheet without waiting for @Marje and Gracie to get back to you or having to print out the instructions.
Click to expand...
 
I always test 1st, then feed and then the shot. I must admit at 1st I was not sure of what order things went. I have been testing between cycles, last night I set my clock and got up twice from bed to test Buddy. Since it is getting later, Iwill start tomorrow on the spreadsheet, it is around 10:00 p.m. here. I know my time says something different, but I cannot get the time to change, the date will change .
 
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