Mr B's tilt a whirl

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Already commented on your older thread. This isn't surprising. It'll be interesting to see how long this bounce lasts. Welcome to trampoline kitty world!
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Already commented on your older thread. This isn't surprising. It'll be interesting to see how long this bounce lasts. Welcome to trampoline kitty world!
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Thanks kris
Do younthink the little bit of high carb food would be partly responsible for this high reading, or would that have worn off hours ago-?

And to confuse things more, we had started a little pumpkin today to help his gi motility. But that certainly should not raise bg, right?

Funny he is acting more comfortable with a high than with that green this morning. Its like his body was tired from fighting off relatively (or actual) low numbers. He is peeing less drinking less and is more relaxed. Aint that a kicker!?

Even with the slow increasing it got out of hand. Goes to show when i was being more aggressive there was no waaaay that would have worked.
 
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Misterbeesmom said:
the little bit of high carb food would be partly responsible for this high reading,
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I really don't know. You'd think it would have worn off but who knows? Do you have any sense of how Mr. B. reacts to carbs from past experiences? I also don't know about the pumpkin. Many people here use it and don't seem to find it to be a problem. If it helps his elimination problems I'd keep giving it and dose around that.

Misterbeesmom said:
Funny he is acting more comfortable with a high than with that green this morning.
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It might be that the low was so atypical that he couldn't cope. More things for you to watch for going ahead. As stressful as this was you've learned new things about his reactions.
Misterbeesmom said:
Even with the slow increasing it got out of hand.
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Your slow increases were fine. I think you finally hit his "breakthrough" range. Notice I didn't say "dose". This is just the beginning because the target is still moving. You're still doing the dance - one step forward, one step back.

I know you've been recording info all along but today was an eye opener for you. You've learned that he reacts a certain way to low BG and that his BG dropped earlier than expected. I speculated on why that happened but who knows for sure? It's something to watch for now.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Please post your evening tests Jen. It will be interesting to see whether he's still high from the bounce or not.
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I just did a before bed test. Black but lower. Got a number instead of a 'hi'.

he's been off carbs for so long that no i had no idea how they may affect him. Not sure if he wouldve bounced up this high, or if giving him carbs before he got even lower mightve helped prevent an even worse bounce. Who knows? Someone else mentioned in another thread maybe he had gone lower than 99 and i was catching him on the uptick, setting up one heck of a bounce.

Anyhoo its been a day. I've been up since 2am worried about him so i'm going to go collapse now.
 
Wow, I missed an exciting day with Mr B! I'm glad Mogs was around to help you through it - that's the awesome thing about this board, there's always someone to help :)

Still it's great that he visited the greens, even if it was a steep plunge and ricochet back up instead of a gentle smiley curve. Hopefully this is the start of better times for you both!
 
Still bouncing this AM, Jen. The events like yesterday's can happen sporadically when you're near the edge of the glass floor so don't be surprised if you have a run of higher numbers or other weirdness. What you know now without a doubt is that he CAN respond to the insulin.
 
Misterbeesmom said:
And the fun continues. 562 pmps. I dont know what to dose. I guess i was stupid with the 4u.

Thoughts anyone? @Kris & Teasel ?
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He's still bouncing, Jen. You should raise the dose methodically but you don't want to jump in and dose according to the size of a bounce number. It would be too much and it would perpetuate the bouncing. You got a yellow PMPS on 12/17, you gave him 4.8 u and then he bounced causing you to raise the dose because you didn't know it was bouncing. Those 5 u doses kept him bouncing until he ran out of "bounce fuel" (liver glycogen reserves to mobilize in order to counteract BG drops you didn't know about) and dropped into the green that scared you. This is all 20/20 hind sight.

How about being careful and only giving 4.2 u tonight. You had to drop his dose a fair bit after the greens. It's always a guessing game to know how much. Now you have to carefully work your way back up. Mores testing is needed, not full curves but some strategic times like +3, +5, +7, +9 (some or all of these) to see what's going on.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
He's still bouncing, Jen. You should raise the dose methodically but you don't want to jump in and dose according to the size of a bounce number. It would be too much and it would perpetuate the bouncing. You got a yellow PMPS on 12/17, you gave him 4.8 u and then he bounced causing you to raise the dose because you didn't know it was bouncing. Those 5 u doses kept him bouncing until he ran out of "bounce fuel" (liver glycogen reserves to mobilize in order to counteract BG drops you didn't know about) and dropped into the green that scared you. This is all 20/20 hind sight.

How about being careful and only giving 4.2 u tonight. You had to drop his dose a fair bit after the greens. It's always a guessing game to know how much. Now you have to carefully work your way back up. Mores testing is needed, not full curves but some strategic times like +3, +5, +7, +9 (some or all of these) to see what's going on.
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Thank u. 'Bounce fuel' lol i like that. I needed an opinin because of course the temptation is to increase dose a good bit, but i know thats not right.

I gave him 4.2. Will check before bedtime.
 
Misterbeesmom said:
Thank u. 'Bounce fuel' lol i like that. I needed an opinin because of course the temptation is to increase dose a good bit, but i know thats not right.

I gave him 4.2. Will check before bedtime.
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Sounds good! Be prepared for weirdness because they can go up and down, back and forth and drive you to distraction. The goal is to crash through the built up resistance but not get into hypo situations. Somewhat tense greens like yesterday will happen and are OK because they increase insulin sensitivity.
 
Got overnoc readings. Thank u insomnia.
Amps pink. I bumped down to 4u, afraid to push him too hard with this lower range of readings. If that was stupid please tell me.
 
Misterbeesmom said:
Got overnoc readings. Thank u insomnia.
Amps pink. I bumped down to 4u, afraid to push him too hard with this lower range of readings. If that was stupid please tell me.
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No, not stupid, Jen. You can always go up again once you see how this plays out. They can be a bit more unpredictable in the aftermath of low numbers. He will be wonky and you will see more of his stuck in pink/red behaviour. They don't change into different cats. Your most important piece of info is that he CAN drop.
 
Stayed in reds but i am a little confused about this episode.

How can i tell if maybe now this dose is too high? And we're maybe still in somogyi or whatever.

He is now in the tub! This is crazy.
 
Maybe he wants a bath? :smuggrin:

I'd say stay the course for now Jen. As Kris said, they can be unpredictable after low numbers and you may be seeing that. It looks to me like you worked your way up fairly steadily. Considering that the insulin did move him a few days ago, I wouldn't think automatically that the dose is too high.

I have been absent for a bit due to a course I was taking, so I haven't been keeping up with history as much. I'll try to look over SS some this weekend and see if I get anything different, but it seems to me you're probably seeing a bounce right now.
 
Rachel said:
Maybe he wants a bath? :smuggrin:

I'd say stay the course for now Jen. As Kris said, they can be unpredictable after low numbers and you may be seeing that. It looks to me like you worked your way up fairly steadily. Considering that the insulin did move him a few days ago, I wouldn't think automatically that the dose is too high.

I have been absent for a bit due to a course I was taking, so I haven't been keeping up with history as much. I'll try to look over SS some this weekend and see if I get anything different, but it seems to me you're probably seeing a bounce right now.
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Thanks rachel. I get confused no matter how many times i'm told about this bouncing thing. Then i get paranoid maybe a lower dose is better. He would get into the blues briefly on lower doses. He is SO thirsty and his legs get really bad in this range and it breaks my heart.
 
Misterbeesmom said:
Thanks rachel. I get confused no matter how many times i'm told about this bouncing thing. Then i get paranoid maybe a lower dose is better. He would get into the blues briefly on lower doses. He is SO thirsty and his legs get really bad in this range and it breaks my heart.
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Just keep doing the slow increasing, Jen. Who knows - you might end up at 5 u again before you get action. Your green the other day wasn't a hypo just totally unexpected. He might need 5 u and his system will need to adjust to that.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Just keep doing the slow increasing, Jen. Who knows - you might end up at 5 u again before you get action. Your green the other day wasn't a hypo just totally unexpected. He might need 5 u and his system will need to adjust to that.
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Right no i know it wasnt a hypo. The concern was such an early drastic drop that he mightve become hypo by the usual time of nadir. ok i'm still confused. If he was dropping relatively low just even if it was that one time, which now i dont think was the case judging by how he was acting, why wouldnt he drop that low again at 5u? I was thinking that dose would probably be too much based on that.
 
Misterbeesmom said:
Right no i know it wasnt a hypo. The concern was such an early drastic drop that he mightve become hypo by the usual time of nadir. ok i'm still confused. If he was dropping relatively low just even if it was that one time, which now i dont think was the case judging by how he was acting, why wouldnt he drop that low again at 5u? I was thinking that dose would probably be too much based on that.
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You won't know until you get there or almost there again. Or he'll surprise you at a slightly lower dose. That's what I mean about the wonkiness that can happen at this stage.
 
He might drop that low again on that dose...but if you slowly and steadily work your way up, it's not as likely. You'll have data at each point to see if he's dropping low enough...and if these lower doses help drop him some, even if it's not enough, that can help his body get used to the drop. So then when you get back up to 5, he might drop more steadily and not as suddenly. As Kris says, he might very well surprise you and drop at a lower dose. That's how you start to hit regulation or OTJ...you get a lower number than you should, you drop the amount of insulin back and then work your way back up if needed and find what dose works then...usually lower than before.
 
Rachel said:
He might drop that low again on that dose...but if you slowly and steadily work your way up, it's not as likely. You'll have data at each point to see if he's dropping low enough...and if these lower doses help drop him some, even if it's not enough, that can help his body get used to the drop. So then when you get back up to 5, he might drop more steadily and not as suddenly. As Kris says, he might very well surprise you and drop at a lower dose. That's how you start to hit regulation or OTJ...you get a lower number than you should, you drop the amount of insulin back and then work your way back up if needed and find what dose works then...usually lower than before.
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That's why it's a dance ...
 
Tanked again! 911 in main forum
+2 is 122 from 449!

I think this dose IS too high! Gah! This is what all that crazy drinking was about. I had a feeling something was up...silly monkey!
 
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Hi Jen,

I see on your SS that you lowered his dose to 3.2 u this AM. I'm glad you did what you are comfortable with. We can give feedback based on what we've experienced but you're the final gate keeper. It's always hard to know how far to backtrack when they surprise us like this. Not enough and you might have some stressful time ahead, too much and they can get stuck again.

What we know for sure is that Mr. B. is in a transitional phase between being stuck high and resistant and beginning to respond but in a spotty, crazy-making way. You're also learning that he shows you signs when something is going on.

Are you off to monitor him today?
 
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Kris & Teasel said:
Hi Jen,

I see on your SS that you lowered his dose to 3.2 u this AM. I'm glad you did what you are comfortable with. We can give feedback based on what we've experienced but you're the final gate keeper. It's always hard to know how far to backtrack when they surprise us like this. Not enough and you might have some stressful time ahead, too much and they can get stuck again.

What we know for sure is that Mr. B. is in a transitional phase between being stuck high and resistant and beginning to respond but in a spotty, crazy-making way. You're also learning that he shows you signs when something is going on.

Are you off to monitor him today?
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I had to go out but i'm home now. Yeah i cant risk him dropping early when i'm not home. Gut said to lower so i did. Might regret it, but sooner or later i have to leave the house and i cant function if i'm worrying about him.
 
Your gut should be a major player in decision making...sometimes we just know something without knowing how we know it. In the end you hold the syringe...take advice for what it's worth but you absolutely have to be comfortable.

I do think we've reached a breakthrough with Mr. B. When you'll be gone is good to play it safe...when you're home is time enough to be more daring.
 
Rachel said:
Your gut should be a major player in decision making...sometimes we just know something without knowing how we know it. In the end you hold the syringe...take advice for what it's worth but you absolutely have to be comfortable.

I do think we've reached a breakthrough with Mr. B. When you'll be gone is good to play it safe...when you're home is time enough to be more daring.
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Guts can be good. Yesterday before the dive i had an inkling and was questioning the dos might be too high. Without guidance and experience of others here, i would not have been able to develop a sort of sense of what is going on. So thankful to have this site!
 
Kris & Teasel said:
The bounce is over. Look at that yellow, Jen! Exciting times ...
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Its crazy. I was so late with his dose last night. That yellow was a surprise this morning. Wasnt sure how to dose him so i took a guess. I no longer pretend to believe there is much rhyme or reason to his BG, and i'm just glad to see a good number when i see it. No sense in hoping to get a handle on this but its good to appreciate a few hours of better numbers. Thanks kris!
 
Misterbeesmom said:
Its crazy. I was so late with his dose last night. That yellow was a surprise this morning. Wasnt sure how to dose him so i took a guess. I no longer pretend to believe there is much rhyme or reason to his BG, and i'm just glad to see a good number when i see it. No sense in hoping to get a handle on this but its good to appreciate a few hours of better numbers. Thanks kris!
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Am I correct that you gave him 3U? Should be fine.

Misterbeesmom said:
I no longer pretend to believe there is much rhyme or reason to his BG, and i'm just glad to see a good number when i see it.
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This! Good for your sanity. I know the feeling. :)
 
Remember it's a process. When you first start to get those lower numbers it's likely they won't last...because we don't know how much to reduce. We have no data for that cat on lower doses. BUT it means something is working and as we get more data we can more effectively handle lower numbers.
 
i got the best xmas pressie this morning. mr b started up his purring machine full blast after about 2 weeks or so of no purrs.

he even talked back to me, telling me his tales of woe and lamentations. i got an earful and told him he's such a good boy.

amps was yellow i forgot to log into ss. the past 36 hours or so he has been drinking less, peeing less. yesterday he slept solid for hours, not having to get up repeatedly to quench thirst and empty bladder. SUCH A RELIEF!!!!

whew. at least we're having a little respite.
 
Misterbeesmom said:
i got the best xmas pressie this morning. mr b started up his purring machine full blast after about 2 weeks or so of no purrs.

he even talked back to me, telling me his tales of woe and lamentations. i got an earful and told him he's such a good boy.

amps was yellow i forgot to log into ss. the past 36 hours or so he has been drinking less, peeing less. yesterday he slept solid for hours, not having to get up repeatedly to quench thirst and empty bladder. SUCH A RELIEF!!!!

whew. at least we're having a little respite.
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Fantastic present, Jen!! Enjoy! :D
 
Misterbeesmom said:
i got the best xmas pressie this morning. mr b started up his purring machine full blast after about 2 weeks or so of no purrs.

he even talked back to me, telling me his tales of woe and lamentations. i got an earful and told him he's such a good boy.

amps was yellow i forgot to log into ss. the past 36 hours or so he has been drinking less, peeing less. yesterday he slept solid for hours, not having to get up repeatedly to quench thirst and empty bladder. SUCH A RELIEF!!!!

whew. at least we're having a little respite.
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What a great present! Hopefully this is only the beginning of better times :cat:
 
well we've had a nice reprieve of symptoms for a day or so. numbers might not look the greatest, but lots less peeing and drinking, and not overly hungry. more restful and the purrfests are a gift.

today's numbers look odd. i'm not sure what is happening but if the trend continues he might be really high for pmps. I don't know if I dosed too much today, or too little, or if its another damn bounce. I even waited this am to be sure I wasn't pressing him too hard. In the past, dosing with a preshot in that range gets tricky.

anyways at least for a little bit he seemed to feel better.
 
Misterbeesmom said:
well we've had a nice reprieve of symptoms for a day or so. numbers might not look the greatest, but lots less peeing and drinking, and not overly hungry. more restful and the purrfests are a gift.

today's numbers look odd. i'm not sure what is happening but if the trend continues he might be really high for pmps. I don't know if I dosed too much today, or too little, or if its another damn bounce. I even waited this am to be sure I wasn't pressing him too hard. In the past, dosing with a preshot in that range gets tricky.

anyways at least for a little bit he seemed to feel better.
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Sort of odd but it's a run of yellows, not pink or red. It'll be interesting to see PMPS. Teasel is surprising me today - maybe some weird moon cycle or planetary alignment??! :confused:
 
I like that yellow today at +3. It'll be interesting to see if Mr. B. is like Teasel: if Teasel drops early he usually gives me a lower nadir and PMPS.
 
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