Elmo AMPS 166

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Beth 73

Beth 73

Member Since 2016
Good morning... last night at +5, Elmo was 126....now at 166...will feed in 15 minutes and shoot in 45....thank u beyond words to say for advice.
 
I agree, Beth. Same routine as yesterday. You're just marking time until your vet visit/discussion tomorrow. I'm home until about +4 or +5 your time - hope I have that right. I'm EST and I think you're central time (1 hour behind me?).
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I agree, Beth. Same routine as yesterday. You're just marking time until your vet visit/discussion tomorrow. I'm home until about +4 or +5 your time - hope I have that right. I'm EST and I think you're central time (1 hour behind me?).
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Thank u, Kris...you all have equipped me well...and yes, we r central time , one hour behind you ....all is well ...:bighug:
 
PS - without the snack Elmo's BG might bounce up a little in a short while after that drop of c. 50 points.

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Thank you both !!! At+2 was. 114.....just now at +3 ..124.....no snacks given since breakfast .....feel very wild letting him go without snacks to see what numbers do.....will steer if necessary....THIS confidence is the fruit of YOUR loving labor with Elmo and I....:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
:cat:

Couple of kwestions for you, Beth:

1. What's the latest point in the cycle where you feed Elmo? And how much do you give at that time?

2. Did you by any chance manage to have another practice at measuring drop doses?


Mogs
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Good morning all! I see you are walking on the wild side now Beth and only steering as need be. It's amazing how we "mature" in our approach with these sweet critters. You are doing great and I'm so pleased to see Elmo is being such a good boy for you! :bighug:
 
Critter Mom said:
:cat:

Couple of kwestions for you, Beth:

1. What's the latest point in the cycle where you feed Elmo? And how much do you give at that time?

2. Did you by any chance manage to have another practice at measuring drop doses?


Mogs
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Hey Mogs :).....latest point in cycle where I feed is about +1.5.....he generally eats most( 1.5oz) of his food by shot time then wanders back and forth for up to an hour after his shot .....eats maybe another .5 oz in that time period. Will do drop practice later this afternoon. DH is getting ready to leave for 5 days and is going to shave a "target zone" on Elmo's side to aid in my shooting confidence:).....he has come a long way from our dating days over35 years ago where he said" there won't be cats in my house".....bless his heart, how time changed him:)!!!
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Good morning all! I see you are walking on the wild side now Beth and only steering as need be. It's amazing how we "mature" in our approach with these sweet critters. You are doing great and I'm so pleased to see Elmo is being such a good boy for you! :bighug:
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Yeah , Linda !!! How was your curling tournament ???? I find that sport fascinating !!! Glad u r home safe and sound !!
 
FYI....Elmo's +4 was 129.... no snacks given since at breakfast ........after the + 4 we shaved a spot on his side for me to "aim" at during injections this week and gave him a baby food all meat snack plus about a teaspoon of cooked beef .....he was trolling around for food earlier but wanted his numbers to be uninfluenced by snacks.....
 
Beth 73 said:
he has come a long way from our dating days over35 years ago where he said" there won't be cats in my house".....bless his heart, how time changed him:)
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I too am glad you brought DH around. I darn near didn't end up with either of my youngsters because hubbie kept saying "we don't need any more cats" when I mentioned the possibility of Myster, my senior citizen needing a new friend after my heart kitty passed on. DH really was a big softee but he didn't like to show it most of the time. He knew though if Mama ain't happy then ain't nobody happy around here and to watch him cuddling with the furballs, I knew he loved them every bit as much as I do!


Beth 73 said:
How was your curling tournament ???? I find that sport fascinating !!!
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The drive there was a bit harrowing but everyone arrived unscathed. We placed second which isn't saying much since there were only 2 teams in each division but everyone had a good time and we get to progress to the next level of competition. Next time we have to travel a lot further north so I hope Mother Nature takes pity on us.

Curling is indeed a fascinating sport. Used to think it was like watching paint dry, but it's like chess on ice and requires far more skill than you'd think. I used to figure skate and remember seeing folks curling at the club and thinking they were crazy but in hind sight I'm sure they thought we were crazy too in our teensy short skirts trying to kill ourselves jumping and twirling on the ice. :woot:
 
Beth 73 said:
FYI....Elmo's +4 was 129.... no snacks given since at breakfast ........after the + 4 we shaved a spot on his side for me to "aim" at during injections this week and gave him a baby food all meat snack plus about a teaspoon of cooked beef .....he was trolling around for food earlier but wanted his numbers to be uninfluenced by snacks.....
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Elmo at +8...151
 
Have been gone part of the day and spending time organizing my thots/notes for vet visit tomorrow.....want to give enuf info without overwhelming him...will practice drops tomorrow morning when fresh:)
 
Beth 73 said:
Saw you are on a fact finding mission of your own as far as changing insulins....gives me comfort that we r both at that at the same time:)
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Just amassing info and opinions to stash on a back shelf in my mental closet. It'll sit there a while and then one day, Poof!, I'll make a decision one way or the other. Takes far too much energy to agonize over it day in and day out. :cool:
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Just amassing info and opinions to stash on a back shelf in my mental closet. It'll sit there a while and then one day, Poof!, I'll make a decision one way or the other. Takes far too much energy to agonize over it day in and day out. :cool:
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Amen !!!! That's how I feel about tomorrow...I am hoping and believing vet will be willing to change Elmo but if not I will absolutely refuse to leave there without aRx for u 100s...you have said it makes this whole titration going thing easier, correct? That way it will help me as I look for new vet .
 
Beth 73 said:
Amen !!!! That's how I feel about tomorrow...I am hoping and believing vet will be willing to change Elmo but if not I will absolutely refuse to leave there without aRx for u 100s...you have said it makes this whole titration going thing easier, correct? That way it will help me as I look for new vet .
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Yes. The U100s would allow 0.2 u using half unit marks, 0.1 u by estimating half way between marks and then skinny/fat 0.1 or 0.2 u by expelling drops of various sizes.
 
Ahhhhhh.....so we never escape the drop thing???? The drop thing can give me wobble legs if I let it :banghead:. So every insulin comes down to drops as doses at times???
 
Beth 73 said:
Ahhhhhh.....so we never escape the drop thing???? The drop thing can give me wobble legs if I let it :banghead:. So every insulin comes down to drops as doses at times???
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It can come to that if your kitty is down to low doses. Practice makes perfect, Beth. :D
 
Well good thing is I have an expired vial of vetsulin I could use to practice drops...would that be better than colored water? I find the water comes out of the syringe differently , more easily than insulin....I have my colored water ready too..;)......gotta do what ya gotta do so,put on my big girl panties and do it......I find I'm getting ticked off at diabetes ,mad at what it's doing to our kitties, what it can put us as caregivers thru...I'm so intent on doing whatever it takes to kick diabetes butt:mad:......sorry for rant, I feel bit better now :rolleyes:
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Just amassing info and opinions to stash on a back shelf in my mental closet. It'll sit there a while and then one day, Poof!, I'll make a decision one way or the other.
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I've been looking at Teasel's info again today, Kris. It's going to take me a while to prepare a reply for you (lot of brainstorming and because of my cognitive issues it's very difficult for me to try to process, organise, and communicate novel/creative thinking) but I will post it on your feedback request thread as soon as I can get something coherent together.

:bighug:


Mogs
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Beth 73 said:
Ahhhhhh.....so we never escape the drop thing???? The drop thing can give me wobble legs if I let it :banghead:. So every insulin comes down to drops as doses at times???
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Anecdotally on the L&L forum they have observed that there are more successful OTJ trials if the cat is titrated slowly off insulin (e.g. 0.25 -> 0.20 -> 0.10 -> no insulin).

For Saoirse's first OTJ trial I went from 0.25IU Lantus to no insulin and her numbers started back after only a few days. Second time around I did the slow titration (slightly customised to suit our own particular circumstances) and the OTJ trial was successful.


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
Anecdotally on the L&L forum they have observed that there are more successful OTJ trials if the cat is titrated slowly off insulin (e.g. 0.25 -> 0.20 -> 0.10 -> no insulin).

For Saoirse's first OTJ trial I went from 0.25IU Lantus to no insulin and her numbers started back after only a few days. Second time around I did the slow titration (slightly customised to suit our own particular circumstances) and the OTJ trial was successful.


Mogs
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Mogs, I'm beginning to wonder even if vet gives me the Lantus if he is the best place to take Elmo afterwards, seeing the vet has zero experience with Lantus. Even if vet gives Rx for it I may find another vet who does prescribe Lantus.
 
Beth 73 said:
Mogs, I'm beginning to wonder even if vet gives me the Lantus if he is the best place to take Elmo afterwards, seeing the vet has zero experience with Lantus. Even if vet gives Rx for it I may find another vet who does prescribe Lantus.
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Also, my heart is calmed by having you all behind me on this and knowing that you have personal, real kitty experience to guide me. The legacy of Sweet Saoirse lives on.:bighug:
 
Critter Mom said:
I've been looking at Teasel's info again today, Kris. It's going to take me a while to prepare a reply for you (lot of brainstorming and because of my cognitive issues it's very difficult for me to try to process, organise, and communicate novel/creative thinking) but I will post it on your feedback request thread as soon as I can get something coherent together.

:bighug:


Mogs
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Whenever, Mogs. No rush. I know you're struggling with burdensome health issues.
 
Beth 73 said:
Well good thing is I have an expired vial of vetsulin I could use to practice drops...would that be better than colored water? I find the water comes out of the syringe differently , more easily than insulin....I have my colored water ready too..;)......gotta do what ya gotta do so,put on my big girl panties and do it......I find I'm getting ticked off at diabetes ,mad at what it's doing to our kitties, what it can put us as caregivers thru...I'm so intent on doing whatever it takes to kick diabetes butt:mad:......sorry for rant, I feel bit better now :rolleyes:
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I'm not surprised that water comes out more easily than insulin. They have different viscosities I'm sure. You could always add a bit of food colouring to the expired insulin so it's more visible. I've also speculated about the effect that the precise bevel a given syringe has on how large a drop can form. There's definitely syringe variability in that regard.
 
@Kris & Teasel ...Kris, I am embarrassed to ask I again for the conversion chart...in my sleepless days I must have misplaced it...as u probably saw above I am having second thots of staying with current vet even if he does give me Lantus. Kinda feel it would be good to have a vet who has experience with it...ur opinion on that? Have read several people got their vet to give it although vet had no experience with it ....just not sure how I feel about that. At the same time, since walking out of his office with initial vetsulin of 1 unit 2x daily I have relied fully on FDMB for all else.
 
Beth 73 said:
Mogs, I'm beginning to wonder even if vet gives me the Lantus if he is the best place to take Elmo afterwards, seeing the vet has zero experience with Lantus. Even if vet gives Rx for it I may find another vet who does prescribe Lantus.
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Be prepared for the possibility that your vet may be perfectly happy with Elmo's current level of regulation (the majority of vets would - Elmo's under the renal threshold and running in safe numbers), he may recommend a remission trial*, and he may therefore be reluctant to consider any insulin switch on those grounds.

Good points to highlight during the consult:

1. A dose of 0.50 IU Vetsulin is too high and unsafe. A dose of <= 0.25IU Vetsulin currently keeps Elmo in a safe range (but not quite in the optimum range for helping the pancreas rest).

2. The dose only lasts 8 hours.

3. When the dose peters out BG levels start to drift up outside the normal range (>150 on Alphatrak).

4. Tweaking the 0.25 dose does not improve dose duration. (Vetsulin does not last long enough.)

5. Elmo's clinical signs are much better when his blood glucose levels are in the low 100s (more energy, better mood and sociability, improved coat condition).

Hope the consult goes well.

:bighug:


Mogs


* Note: There is a chance that during a remission trial Elmo's numbers could drift down into a slightly better range after insulin treatment is discontinued. The only way to find out would be to run a trial.

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Here it is: CONVERSION CHART
Re vet's experience: my vet is part of a large clinic with 14 vets and 24/7 ER facilities. All of them prescribe Lantus for diabetic kitties. I'm the ONLY client there who's using ProZinc. My vet suggested it after Teasel's DKA episode because she trusts me to be able to handle something different. I've since taught her some things about FD. Compared to a lot of what I've read here she's better than most when a kitty is diagnosed: low starting dose, home BG testing, etc. What I wasn't told that seems crazy to me now is about testing before shooting. She also agreed that I was up to handling the use of U100 syringes with a U40 insulin. Now, she lets me do my own thing and just initials the label when I need a new vial of insulin. And I did show her the SS and explained the FDMB "way". She's fine with it. I'm lucky.
 
Critter Mom said:
Be prepared for the possibility that your vet may be perfectly happy with Elmo's current level of regulation (the majority of vets would - Elmo's under the renal threshold and running in safe numbers), he may recommend a remission trial*, and he may therefore be reluctant to consider any insulin switch on those grounds.

Good points to highlight during the consult:

1. A dose of 0.50 IU Vetsulin is too high and unsafe. A dose of <= 0.25IU Vetsulin currently keeps Elmo in a safe range (but not quite in the optimum range for helping the pancreas rest).

2. The dose only lasts 8 hours.

3. When the dose peters out BG levels start to drift up outside the normal range (>150 on Alphatrak).

4. Tweaking the 0.25 dose does not improve dose duration. (Vetsulin does not last long enough.)

5. Elmo's clinical signs are much better when his blood glucose levels are in the low 100s (more energy, better mood and sociability, improved coat condition).

Hope the consult goes well.

:bighug:


Mogs


* Note: There is a chance that during a remission trial Elmo's numbers could drift down into a slightly better range after insulin treatment is discontinued. The only way to find out would be to run a trial.

.
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Thank u, thank u, Mogs....I have prepared as best I can. Believing he will be agreeable to switch then I will start Lantus the same way I've used vetsulin: with the unwavering help and care of you all......and a new vet .
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Here it is: CONVERSION CHART
Re vet's experience: my vet is part of a large clinic with 14 vets and 24/7 ER facilities. All of them prescribe Lantus for diabetic kitties. I'm the ONLY client there who's using ProZinc. My vet suggested it after Teasel's DKA episode because she trusts me to be able to handle something different. I've since taught her some things about FD. Compared to a lot of what I've read here she's better than most when a kitty is diagnosed: low starting dose, home BG testing, etc. What I wasn't told that seems crazy to me now is about testing before shooting. She also agreed that I was up to handling the use of U100 syringes with a U40 insulin. Now, she lets me do my own thing and just initials the label when I need a new vial of insulin. And I did show her the SS and explained the FDMB "way". She's fine with it. I'm lucky.
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With all u both have/are going thru I feel like a big baby...getting worked up as I prepare for this tomorrow...I need to focus on that, take what I have and believe for the best. As you always say, I need to breathe :cat:
 
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