? Cat stopped eating last night

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johnt

johnt

Member Since 2016
This kind of hit like a train. Wilbur was just fine yesterday. Playful, energetic, annoying me to play....

then about 8pm it changed. he kind of started wandering in places he normally doesn't go, and he stopped wanting to eat.

His intervals are at strange times due to my schedule. but he gets a shot at 3 am and 3pm 6u am 4u pm. of ProZinc.

But at 3am he wouldn't eat like normal. i won't give him a shot without seeing him eat. So i went to bed for a few hours.

I have a SUSPICION he's not peeing either. saturday his litter box was normal, today it's light. I clean it twice a day

I have no ER availability and 8am is the earliest i can get him in, which of course i will do.

he's epileptic too, but i did give him his phenobarbital even though he didn't eat.

any advice? My intuition says he probably has a bladder infection. but i'm no vet of course

in 3 years of diabetes this has never happened where he didn't eat. he's never missed a single shot
 
update. well Wilbur just now ate a normal meal so i was able to give him his insulin.. WHEW. but i'm still convinced he's not peeing. at least not like normal. i'm taking him to the vet no matter what tomorrow. eve3n if his urination returns to normal. because i want to get a new glucose curve.

what's the general consensus on ProZinc? is that good? also, for epilepsy i give him 15mg phenobarbital twic e daily. is that normal and sound about right?
 
Do you home test Wilbur's glucose at all? It's really easy to do, and buying the monitor and strips is MUCH cheaper and more accurate than having the vet do a curve (because kitties tend to get stressed at the vet's, which causes a rise in glucose).
You can use a human monitor and test strips from Walmart, Walgreens, CVS, etc. The numbers read a little different from a pet meter, but most of the numbers used on this site are based on human meters. The main difference is that the human readers will read a bit lower on the low end of the range.
Most people here who give insulin test BG before every shot, and try to at least once mid-way between shots, and then do their own curves periodically.
 
I mentioned somewhere here (probably another thread). wilbur REFUSES to let me do it. i can 't use the claw clipping or ear pricking method. i don't even need to buy supplies, i'm diabetic and test myself, i use freestyle lite strips which require the lowest amount of blood I've ever seen. but i cannot get him to let me test.
 
Try taking it slow. Pick a spot where you want to do the testing, take him there, give him lots of pets and healthy carb-free treats (others can recommend those, my cat doesn't take treats, she's a picky eater). Then take your supplies and put them nearby, but continue petting and treating. Then if you use a lancet pen, start clicking it so Wilbur gets used to the noise, and insert a strip into the meter to get him used to the beep. Then eventually prick, but don't try to catch the blood yet -- give LOTS of praises. Then finally try to get blood.
This process could take days or even weeks, but don't get frustrated. Just keep it a positive experience for Wilbur.
Many people here started out unable to test, and now have kitties who will run to the testing area on their own because they look forward to the attention and the treats!
 
well heck, it can't hurt to try. i've tried everything but maybe just moving to a new area for it will change things.

I'm very relieved today, he's eating now and i got an insulin dose in, so i'm much more relaxed but we're still going to the vet for a curve tomorrow
 
Ah John! Hi here too! Testing - oh no claw clipping, that's painful! We use the outside edge of the ear which has very few nerves, it's not painful, it's just different. Lots of people have arrived here saying the same thing but after a couple of weeks of determination, Wilbur may come to YOU when he hears the meter. REALLY!

Curves at the vet gives you a false sense of security. Stress raises glucose numbers - travel to vet/vet visit/other animals/etc raise those numbers. A test at home will many times be over 100 points lower. You're shooting a 'stressed' number using the vet testing....he may indeed be going hypo. You know yourself how important it is to test yourself prior to insulin - diabetes is diabetes regardless of whether it's human, cat, dog, horse, goat...heck, even frogs!

You've got lots of good info above, keep asking questions until you get what you need to help Sir Wilbur!
 
@johnt - what kind of insulin do you use? No you DEFINITELY don't want to go with any of the 'R' insulins for cats as mentioned in your other post. Walmart does also carry NPH insulin for the same price. Trouble with NPH is that it drives numbers down hard then is finished working - bg zooms back up. ProZinc is better about not causing this - Lantus and Levemir are also excellent for cats....
 
I use ProZinc and I like it. There's more freedom to move around, to punt... than with other insulins..at least this is how it appears to me after reading the protocols. Perhaps, if your ProZinc is compounded, it is starting to lose its punch.? How old is your insulin vial?

The reccommended time to keep a vial after opening is 2 months in spite of the fact that it MIGHT 'last' a bit longer. Any use out of that vial after that is a bonus, but always consider it to be just that. Particularly if it is compounded by a pharmacy, like Wildwood, who makes my ProZinc . Compounded insulin is sometimes not as stable.

The company that originally made it made it in large quantities at the one time. Batches made in smaller amounts by private pharmacies may not exactly "match" a larger batch. But the difference is so slight as to be negligible.

I would say that if you never had issues before, stay with it. It is much more likely that your cat is having a health burp.

There might be a few hours delay in getting back in balance for urine but no longer... John, you sound like you know your cat really well so.. If your gut says "Go see the vet".. Take him.
 
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Hi John, I think I read in another of your posts that Wilbur will not tolerate his ears being touched.
Try playing with his ears every chance you get even if he doesn't like it, once he gets used to having his ears touched you've won half the battle,
then move on to the next step.
Get him used to one thing at a time as Shenandoah's mom said, the spot, the click of the lansing device, the beep of the meter, before you actually try to poke him. And always give lots of cuddles and praises.
 
Liz & IttyBit said:
Hi John, I think I read in another of your posts that Wilbur will not tolerate his ears being touched.
Try playing with his ears every chance you get even if he doesn't like it, once he gets used to having his ears touched you've won half the battle,
then move on to the next step.
Get him used to one thing at a time as Shenandoah's mom said, the spot, the click of the lansing device, the beep of the meter, before you actually try to poke him. And always give lots of cuddles and praises.
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yeah i'm going to try this
 
Jeanne & Dottie said:
I use ProZinc and I like it. There's more freedom to move around, to punt... than with other insulins..at least this is how it appears to me after reading the protocols. Perhaps, if your ProZinc is compounded, it is starting to lose its punch.? How old is your insulin vial?

The reccommended time to keep a vial after opening is 2 months in spite of the fact that it MIGHT 'last' a bit longer. Any use out of that vial after that is a bonus, but always consider it to be just that. Particularly if it is compounded by a pharmacy, like Wildwood, who makes my ProZinc . Compounded insulin is sometimes not as stable.

The company that originally made it made it in large quantities at the one time. Batches made in smaller amounts by private pharmacies may not exactly "match" a larger batch. But the difference is so slight as to be negligible.

I would say that if you never had issues before, stay with it. It is much more likely that your cat is having a health burp.

There might be a few hours delay in getting back in balance for urine but no longer... John, you sound like you know your cat really well so.. If your gut says "Go see the vet".. Take him.
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how so do you mean forgiving? i don't quite understand

age shouldn't be a problem. it gets used up in 40 days. when I buy it at the vet they wrap it with ice packs, and i immediately put it in the back of the fridge when i get home, taking it out only long eough to fill the syringe. i'm anal about it.

but here's a question.....

Wilbur started eating again. but i am fairly certain he's not peeing. Saturday morning there was excess pee. not a ton but more than normal. since then i dont think he's gone much if any. i can always tell when he does because he's big and he pees on the back of the litter box. even though i have two boxes in this room with 2 cats, he uses both. frequently going in one, then walking over and going in that one too. but if I only have one b ox, tinker will start pooping outside the box. but anyway, i can tell when it's his pee. so i think i'm close to 24 hours i cannot be sure he's gone. and with diabetes he should be going a lot
 
just a short follow up and a new question.

I did find that wilbur has no urinated for sure. he's also been hungry again and eating so i'm thrilled. but no matter what i'm taking him in tomorrow because i'm still sure he's not right. plus i really need a new curve done. Hopefully i can get him to accept me testing him and i can lower my stress.

new question though, i swear it seems like his eyes, are dialated about 3/4 of the way all the time, dark, light etc. is that a worrisome indicator of anything?

i'm probably going to drive you guys nuts, but i'm finally at a place that knows what i'm going through.

honestly the seizures are the worst. i think they were worse on me than him
 
johnt said:
new question though, i swear it seems like his eyes, are dialated about 3/4 of the way all the time, dark, light etc. is that a worrisome indicator of anything?
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Ask the vet to check Wilbur's blood pressure and also to do a thorough eye exam including measurement of intraocular pressure and if the vet can't do it get a referral to someone who can ASAP.

Some basic info:

http://www.ehow.com/info_8744525_causes-felines-dilated-pupils.html

Some meds can dilate pupils.



Mogs
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I'll ask. it's probably paranoia. i looked now and they're fully dialated but he's playful right now too.

I do know he has cataracts in both eyes. that might do it too, and he's on phenobarbital, that could be it. i'll ask the vet tomorrow.
 
Fingers and paws crossed it's just a med side effect. Well worth getting the BP check and eye exam regardless. Hope all goes OK tomorrow at the vets.


Mogs
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Was the cataracts diagnosed because his eyes are cloudy? If so, there's a condition that many cats get as they age called 'lenticular sclerosis'. It looks terrible from the outside but it doesn't affect their vision.

BTW, you don't have to have your vet's permission to test - in fact many discourage it. Many only know to use vein draws. That indeed isn't something to be done at home by most people. My vet didn't...I'm not being negative toward vets, they just can't know everything about every disease for every kind of animal that visits them. On the other hand, we live it 24/7....just like you... :)

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Yes, if your kitty isn't urinating he's got to go to the vet. He could have a calcification stone that's preventing him from going. Knock on wood, I've never had a kitty with a UTI. Glad to hear you are so on top of things. You're a great CatDaddy, :joyful:and Wilbur is a very lucky cat.:cat:

There's a very good description of ProZinc and PZI's protocols, in greate detail, in the ProZinc forum. It's worth taking a looksee. Since everyone in that sub-forum uses ProZinc, you'll have the advantage of sage advice from older hands than me.

OH...I might suggest you don't put your insulin all the way at the back of the fridge? If your fridge ever gets too cold, that's the spot that freezes first. This happens more in summer, when some refrigerators have to work harder (no ac in the house)...Mine does this, occasionally, (old fridge) so my insulin is midway into the second shelf.

Nor should the insulin be put in the door, because the temperature fluctuates too much,... again, especially in Summer. :cat:(I suspect you know about the door thing, so this last comment is really meant for the benefit of any who didn't.)
 
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well, our fridge sucks. trust me. i either put it to the basck to keep the temp consistent, or in the crisper. i used to carve wood until my trigger finger stopped that, but i carved a holder for the bottles so they stay upright. i learned it's bad to even let them rest on the side because of the rubber part, it's always better to keep them up.

anyway, no problem there. i didn't see a prozinc forum, maybe i missed it.
 
johnt said:
I mentioned somewhere here (probably another thread). wilbur REFUSES to let me do it. i can 't use the claw clipping or ear pricking method. i don't even need to buy supplies, i'm diabetic and test myself, i use freestyle lite strips which require the lowest amount of blood I've ever seen. but i cannot get him to let me test.
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No need to clip a claw, simply poke the paw pad. They have very little feeling and bleed quite easily with just a few "pumps". The hole closes so quickly so there's virtually no chance of infection. It'll take a little time to learn to do it and to get kitty into the routine, but you can do it. And for treats you can give kitty boiled chicken.

Bear in mind that any testing done at the vet will result in a higher bg due to the stress of the trip.
 
i didn't know you could do blood by poking the paw pad. i thought it was ears or claws... this is very interesting.
 
i just dropped Wilbur off at the vet. i told them to do a glucose curve. hopefully i'll be able to start testing at home. I also told the vet about the dialated eyes.

crossing my fingers for a good outcome
 
johnt said:
i just dropped Wilbur off at the vet. i told them to do a glucose curve. hopefully i'll be able to start testing at home. I also told the vet about the dialated eyes.
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If you haven't done so already, John, I very much recommend you give the vets a call and ask them to make certain to check Wilbur's blood pressure while he's in with them.


Mogs
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yeah i mentioned checking the BP, but i'll make sure. i plan to call around 1. they are terrible about return phone calls.

I jsut hope he's ok. i worry about him. we went through some very hard times with the seizures and i thought i was going to lose him several times. I work from home, and he's never more than 3 feet from me, 24/7 so it's dicomforting just having him at the vet at all.

and if for some reason he has to stay overnight, when that happens his sister hisses at him when he comes home and it makes me sad.
 
I can't imagine how scary the seizures must have been for both of you. Isn't it awful when there's anything wrong with our little ones. :( I can relate to the awful feeling that you might lose Wilbur. My own little one, Saoirse, has had a very rough time over the last couple of weeks. I feel for you.

Saoirse's with me 24/7, too. Like you, I get fretty if she's at the vets without me.

I wonder if it's the vetty bean smell that makes Wilbur's sister hiss if he's been overnighting there? What's her name, BTW? (Lovely pic of the two of them in your avatar.)


Mogs
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yeah it just doesn't feel 'right' without him here. plus I know he's scared and wants to come home. he's like a kid to me. I wake up if I notice he's not sleeping between my legs. I sleep on my stomach with one leg straight and the other bent. Wilbur likes to rest on something, so he'll climb up and lay on my bent leg to sleep. he likes it so much when i get up i arrange my pillows under his blanket so the same formation is there so he can stay like that :) then when i come to bed if he's already there i just slide the pillows out and scooch in to replace them. he just readjusts and goes to sleep.

and when i'm at my desk, where i am about 90% of the time, he sleeps in a great big cat bed that's right next to my monitor, so during the day i reach up and scritch his neck and his back (he loves being scratched on the back).

His sister is Tinker. she's awesome. they're 8 years old and tinker has not been sick a day in her life. Wilbur on the other hand, who i thought was the more robust of the two, has had all kinds of trouble
 
It's nice to hear about life with your little furry family; and I see you're another member of the Thou Shalt Not Disturb Thy Kitty club! Know what you mean about the 'favourite spot' and human pillow thing. I sleep on my side with my arm outstretched and Saoirse's brother, Amadán (sadly no longer with me), used to use it as a bolster.

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Definitely a good cat daddy! Seizures are a nightmare.. My ex BIL had them. I can only imagine how awful they would be in a helpless little kitty. John, is it a possibility that you've used a new chemical around the house somewhere? The dialated eyes cause me to worry about a poison.

With all the chemicals we have lurking in household products these days it is easy to expose Wilbur to a phenol in fabric softener, floor cleaner,etc , air freshener, etc.

Cats are highly sensitive to petroleum distillates. I inadvertently exposed one of my cats (who is no longer with us) to lysol spray during the winter months last year and it sent him into severe illness.

It's also human of us to accidentally drop human medications on the floor. I have in the past spent a good hour crawling around on the floor after droppiing a pill so I know how easyy it can be to lose track of something toxic.

Do you have a new plant, perhaps that he might have chewed?d Like a variety off phiilodendron or shifflera? The first thing I think of with dialated eyes is poison.
 
Nope. that's the strange thing. nothing has changed here. Due to the stray i took in not being social my two stay in my office all the time, or my bedroom. nothing new has been introduced at all.

frankly it could just be paranoia, but it did seem he should be having less dialated eyes. it might also have been going on awhile. i just noticed it yesterday but i was hyper sensitive because I knew he was sick.

the seizures. oh the seizures. i'm not sure if they were harder on him or me. i didn't know what was happening first, i thought he was choking. he'd frantically kick and kick. it only happened 3 times at first. AFter they are over he'd cry so loud, then he'd walk around the whole room sniffing everything purring heavily. its like he was trying to figure out if he knew where he was.

as time passed we went about 3 years with none. then a doctor friend of mine told me that he wasn't choking, he was having seizures and they are somewhat common in cats. but I dind't want to get him on meds unless I had to. if he had one seizure every 2 years it wasn't worth medicating and stressing him.

Then last year they started coming heavy. every couple months. then towards the end he'd have one at like 8pm then another at 8am. but it was smaller. they never lasted more than probably 30 seconds, but when it happened at first all the strength in my legs would give out and I thought he was dying. I remember just crying and thinking (just please go if you have to. please go) it broke my heart. then it would be over and he would look around not sure where he was.

Towards the end I started recognizing when they were coming. he'd kind of shake his head, look uncomfortable and drool. so i had time to pick him up and rush him to the bathroom so i could pin him on the floor. i did this because it kept him from gripping the carpet with his claws.

the problem is, twice they happened when he was in the bathroom. i took one of the doors off the cabinet and made a bed in the enclosed side years ago so he could have privacy when he wanted it. it's cute. he stands up on the door and pushes it closed then goes to bed. it does close all the way though....

so when those happened he would come bursting out of the cabinet in fullseizure. two times he must have hit his mouth. I noticed blood, then when i went in the bathroom to clean it up, I found a canine. then one came later and the same thing happened.


the damned vet kept saying it was from high glucose and I disagreed. i FINALLY convinced her 4 months ago and she gave me phenobarbital. 15mg twice a day. he has not had a seizure since that day.
 
what bothers me about pills is that I can give wilbur his pheno dose (pills) and drop it right to the back of his tongue perfectly. he swallows and we move on. but sometimes he still manages to poke it back out when i thought it was swallowed. There are several times while vacuuming I have found them on the carpet where they rolled under something. it always really bugs me too because I am EXTREMELY anal about medicine times and doses.
 
I'm very glad you were able to find something to help Wilbur. You are a wonderful advocate for him and a fantastic kitty poppa.

:bighug: John & Wilbur :bighug:



Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
I'd just say you love him very much. Tinker, too. :)
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Yep i agree. and I love the heck out of Pickle too. One day I'll post the long story of her past. it's a doosey.

OK I just got a call from the VET. Wilbur has a UTI which explains him not feeling good. Bad part is it means they can't do a glucose curve which i was REALLY looking forward too. but after he heals up i'll take him in.

Could that explain his dilated eyes?
 
well he's home. now he's sniffing everything as though he's never been here before, and tinker is hiding under the bed. he's been gone a whopping 5 hours lol
 
Couldn't say about the dilated pupils, John. Maybe take it up with the vet again?

Glad that your little furball is back home safe. I hope his UTI clears up quickly, and I look forward to hearing Pickle's story some day. :)


Mogs
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I know you're disappointed you didn't get the curve, but it's a good thing. A UTI can significantly increase BG levels, so the data from the curve would not have been very meaningful anyway.
Glad it's a relatively simple issue - UTIs can be cleared up quickly with antibiotics, then you can get back on track.
And it gives you more time to work on your home testing, so maybe you won't even need to have the vet do the curve when the time comes :)
 
If I sound like I'm rambling, I am very tired..please bear with me, ok?:confused: My thoughts might be out of order..if I repeat myself, I'm sorry for that too. I have put down a number of thoughts, but the answer you are looking for might be buried in the middle of my post.

Hm....dilated eyes can also be a symptom of interocular pressure...have you had him recently scanned for glaucoma? If not, you may want to confer with Mogs..her cat just went through an eye removal for Glaucoma. Boy, can she ever clue you in as to symptoms. If you've been reading all threads you would have read her 911 thread. (I frequently forget who I've seen where,on the board. It's called "Old Lady Syndrome";))

Could be that one of the side effects of phenobarbitol is dilated eyes? Yup. Sometimes medications designed to calm people/animals down, produce effects that seem to be in exact opposition to what they're supposed to fix. This is why some people on antidepressants, commit suicide.

Animals who are even mildly stressed, and have anxiety, may also have dilated eyes. :nailbiting: It's a fear response to allow the animal to see as much area, as clearly as possible. In cats that symptom would be exaggerated since their pupils are slitted. A nervous cat would need to expand his horizontal field of view.

And since Wilbur has seizures, he is certainly aware that something scary happens to him, at times he can't readily predict. This would feel akin to waiting for someone to jump out at him from the bushes at any moment. YIKES!:eek: That would stress ME out! I guess you might call it a form of PTSD.

Epileptics, my ex BIL included..have reported a feeling of anxiety that precedes a seizure. Maybe Wilbur is having petit mal seizures that no one is capable of spotting? They come and go in a fraction of a second, so the only one who would be aware of what is happening, is Wilbur. He doesn't drive, he doesn't do high math,:bookworm: and he doesn't have an occupation that would need extreme focus all the time. So petit mal seizures could be virtually invisible to us beanso_O These kinds of seizures could disorient Wilbur..and cause anxiety, AND dilated pupils as he tries to figure out why one second he is on your lap, and the next he's heading for the cat pan, without remembering how he got FROM your lap, into the cat pan. It's akin to driving, and suddenly you find you missed your exit ramp...you get 'spaced out'.

You might have a sensitive kitty, who's very aware of his own body and how it feels, and he might be anticipating seizures. Since he can't talk, he can't tell us if there is something he connects with his seizure state..for example, a slight dizziness, or a ringing in his ears. Something that might hand him a sort of flashback alert.

You mention that you take in strays to rehabilitate..perhaps Wilbur is beginning to have pecking order issues? Are things changing in your home? Anything at all. Is there construction going on outside? New noises, new smells? Do you have a new housemate? Does the housemate have a new girlfriend/boyfriend who comes to visit? Is there another cat who goes in and out of the house, bringing strange smells with it? (Not an outdoor cat...just a cat that gets to go places with it's owner.:D). And if you have a strong connection to a shelter, you may not be aware of it, but you are bringing anxiety from other animals home with you, every day..in the form of smells.

Fear has a distinctive odor that can be transferred by clothing. As Wilbur gets older, he might pay more attention to that. Priorities change with age. An older cat might develop an anxiety from feeling like he is 'losing it'..within its home societal structure..Wilbur might anticipate that the social order in the household is changing. Was/is he "Top Cat" in the household? Perhaps he's afraid another cat will take his job?


Add normal emotions and life circumstances and Wilbur could be stressing over just about anything...a very personal thing.

Still..when you see a symptom you don't recognize..it's always wise to pursue general health issues first. THEN worry about the conscious brain.
 
no new anything. this house is very stable. no surprises etc. but i will say, once he got home from the vet, for the first time in 2 days his eyes are not at minimum 3/4 dilated. they seem to ahve dropped.

maybe he sensed my stress and figured he was about to go to the vet.

i'll follow up more when i get back
 
Oh, in regards to Wilbur spitting out his pills. :banghead: I swear, sometimes I think cats are related to chipmunks. Dottie used to do this too...she got real good at sticking that pill under the back of her tongue, where she'd hold it until my back was turned. Most of the time I could tell she swallowed the pill because she'd *GULP* and her eyes would bug out..then she'd lick her lips and give me THE LOOKo_O. But every once in a while I'd find a pill lying on the floor, and I could swear Dottie would make a face at me when I would find it. :p

One to avoid sneaky pill hoarding, is to give kitty something else he likes to eat, right after giving the pill. Or better yet, get them to drink something, like tuna water. :coffee: Then the pill will (hopefully) become dislodged and go down with the good stuff.

Maybe....
 
Just wanted to say hi! I too have an epileptic kitty, had 10-20 short seizures a day when we got him, now is about once or twice a week, maximum 30 seconds. The seizures themselves aren't too bad, but scares the crap out of me that he'll hurt himself. He's fallen 8ft off our staircase twice before, bit himself multiple times, bit me, etc when having seizures.
 
Thanks for that info. I'm going to figure out how to get my little monkey to let me do it.

Thought I'd post an update. Wilbur was given a 2 week anti-biotic shot on Monday (Whatever 2 weeks means). it's now Wednessday and he's back to being very talkative, and VERY playful. So i think we're headed in the right direction.

I don't know how often you guys get told this, but you sure make it easier to get through these things. It's easy to feel very alone when you worry about sick pets. Especially cats because they hide their symptoms so well; So THANK YOU for making this so much easier
 
well it's much appreciated.

for a bonus here's wilbur in a food coma
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