Worried & Frustrated Re: Difficult Cat

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Oh dear, Blame....I just realized how my recounting what the vets said to me yesterday, sounded. I'm so sorry. I did NOT mean to say that everyone who was testing often was "off side" or "wrong". Not by any means! I know it sounded that way and I DO apologize (now that I've re-read how I wrote that).
These 2 vets were responding to MY personal issues with Morrigan and her personality and how stressed it was making both of us. They were both trying to reassure me that I was doing ok and that it's ok to relax a bit right now, given the type of insulin she is on (the Lantus) and the levels she's at right now (meaning that she's not likely to go hypo or too far out of range in highs) at this particular point in time. They were both trying to stop me from running to my doc for a script for Valium. ;) I have been a total wreck over this. Part of it is because (as I was speaking with another member via private message) I've lost so many family members and so many much loved pets over the past 15 years now that I am TERRIFIED of doing something wrong and losing another much loved member of my life. I feel terribly guilty because I can't get the readings that a lot of members here are getting and having a mini-breakdown over it. They were simply trying to reassure me that if I can't get them, not to worry and that the main thing is (as you've said) to get her to trust us, EAT and come out of hiding. Then, the monitoring can be done more often. I'm SO sorry that what I wrote sounded as it did. I truly didn't mean it to sound that way. It was really just reassuring me that it's "ok" right now to NOT be "obesessive" with it as there is no need at this point and doing more harm than good to her and myself. That's all...it's MY personal situation that they were addressing and, I'm sure...they don't want the "freak outs" coming from me. :)

And, yes...you're right. I see by some member's charts that their cats have reached a point of "normalcy" or closer to it and they "could" go hypo or...need a reduction or even quit the insulin soon. I see WHY the testing are as they are. And, I know that Morrigan will eventually have to be upped on her dosage and will require more testings than I'm doing. Certainly what you're saying about testing before each shot and a mid-range is necessary when that happens. I am just worried silly (sick) about her not wanting to eat much and being so skittish with us that we barely see her. I need to back up the horses just a tad and try to get to a point where that eases a bit, get her eating and hope that she'll come around to feeling comfortable around us again.

I don't disagree with anything anyone says in here and that's why I'm here....I need the support, information and help and I DO enjoy everyone here that I've met.
Please disregard the way that I said that. I truly only meant it to pertain to MY personal situation with Morrigan's temperament and the trouble I'm having in getting her to comply with things. It's just going to take time for both of us. :)

Thanks Blame. You've been nothing but, kind. :)

Blamethecats and Hannah said:
Well, I'm certainly glad to hear that you've enjoyed our little trip down memory and tinfoil lane and that it's helped you to smile. Actually, it's helped me, too. I'm pretty sure we'll run into more of this silliness along the way, somewhere, sometime. It's bound to happen again. It always does. :D THANK GOODNESS!!!

I agree that it's first and foremost that you get Morrigan to eat. At this point, she really needs to eat, so feed her what she likes... within reason, of course. If it boosts her BG, then you can always adjust the insulin accordingly (with the help of your vet or someone here) while you continue to work on finding an appropriate food that she likes and is better for her. Granted, she may need a bigger dose of insulin for a while, but she's got to eat. A diabetic kitty that doesn't eat is lined up for additional problems the two of you do not need.

Yes, some of us do go overboard on testing, but many of us have very good reasons for that and you'll figure the reasoning out if and when the time comes. At the very least, in spite of what your two vets say, I would recommend ALWAYS testing prior to giving insulin, just in case Morrigan decides to give you some much lower numbers that you wouldn't see coming without testing. And it's good to get in at least one mid-cycle test, too, as that will give you an idea of just how low a particular dose takes her and how long the insulin lasts. I'm not familiar with using Lantus, but there are folks here that know it well and can guide you as to how to best use it. Don't be afraid to ask for help and to trust the advice given.


Hmmmmm, I guess that statement has some validity, but I don't agree fully. Yes, it's no fun for either you or Morrigan if she spends her life scared and in hiding, but neither one of you will get past that if you don't slowly start to work your way out of the situation. And... what good is it for you or Morrigan if she stays in hiding and remains sick? That doesn't work, either. Hannah was like that for quite a while, mostly because she was feeling scared and crappy. Once we got into a routine and she started to feel a bit better, she gradually got over it. That can happen for you and Morrigan, too. It's just something you both have to keep working on. You'll get there. Take a break every now and then, that's fine, but keep in mind that you can do this.


You've included a lot of wise insight in this paragraph. You're one week in and on the right track! You're in uncharted territory, at least for now. It is a BIG adjustment... yup!! And it definitely takes time and a lot of patience to regain the trust you mentioned. We know, we've all been where you are, now. None of us LIKE doing this to our fur babies, but if it can give them a better quality of life, then we just have to go for it and do the best we can.

Sending lots of hugs and encouragement your way,:bighug::bighug::bighug:
Carole
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Louellen said:
They were both trying to stop me from running to my doc for a script for Valium. ;) ...

...Please disregard the way that I said that. I truly only meant it to pertain to MY personal situation with Morrigan's temperament and the trouble I'm having in getting her to comply with things. It's just going to take time for both of us. :) ...
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Never underestimate the beauty of valium :p JK
When I told my vet that I would be home testing, she mentioned that some people take it a little too far -- become obsessive compulsive. Well, she`s entitled to her opinion, and I respect her very much, but Lulu is MY cat (correction: I am Lulu`s bean) and we`ll do things the way we think is best, with the help of this forum. If you look at Lulu`s SS, some days I test many times, sometimes a few. Depends on her numbers. And there are lot of informed people on here whom I`ve come to trust.
Just my .02 for what it`s worth (by the way, the penny is no longer minted in Canada).

Glad you`re here, Louellen :)
 
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OMG...bsmith....I think I just about fell off of my chair, laughing at your idea of releasing mice through the house to get your cat to eat out of desperation! You're not going to believe this but...I was thinking of throwing her outside and hoping she would catch a few mice on her own! (I cannot sit up for laughing right now). I think your idea is better. If I could stand having mice in my house...I'd let her go to it! That's how desperate I am too.
And, talk about insanity...I SING to Morrigan to get her to eat. I'd do the spinning plates on sticks act for her too...but, like you...I'm afraid the crashing would send her into a nervous breakdown for months on end. ;)

I was in the pet food store the other day, sunglasses on my head, reading glasses hanging from my shirt collar and fishing through my purse for my glasses, mumbling (with non-G rated mutters) about where my glasses were. Some poor older woman, put her hand on my shoulder and said, "there they are, Dear", pointing to my shirt collar.
Out came my cell phone, trying to find the calculator function to do the math to find the carb percentage and I thought I was going to go postal in there. I must have at least one, if not 2 of every brand we can get up here that fits the numbers. I had forgotten to bring the list with me (my bible of cat foods) so, I had to do the calculations...some with print so fine that I couldn't see it with my glasses on and had to get a store associate to try with a magnifying glass. They even offered me a seat to do it with. All that I could think of was....what's the use? She's NOT going to eat it anyway and walked out with yet another credit card receipt to magnetize to my fridge so that I can take back the dozens of unopened cans. I have even cried in stores through sheer frustration, confusion and not knowing what to do.

You know the oddball thing is...there's many of us on these forums, trying SO hard to keep our cats safe, doing the right things and trying so desperately. Yet, there's millions more people out there with diabetic cats (and other ailments) who are listening to their vets, feeding what they'll eat, upping the dosages as needed through vet office curves and not as stressed out as I am. Yet...I can't "un-know" what I know now so, I persist and try.

Meanwhile...setting feeder mice free through the house is looking better and better as an option right now! ;)

And, thank you so much for the links. I've got more reading ahead of me now.

But, I had to laugh. One vet (my favourite vet) asked me, "what does she really like". I had to answer..."everything that is bad for her to be eating and I'm sure..for me to go dunk my head in the toilet until I can't breathe." He laughed. I thought some more (I've tried the tuna, tuna water, low sodium broth, heating, chicken pieces, freeze dried treats, crumbled freeze dried treats sprinkled, parmesan cheese, real cooked liver pieces, sardines in water, heck...I'd even fry a mouse up if I had to!) Finally, I said, "cat nip...she LOVES cat nip". He said..."then put it on her food!" I said, "ok...but...then, how will I know what is cat nip induced "drunkenness" or hypo symptoms. He answered, "you'll have to test". I stopped, he stopped and I guess it clicked in because he answered..."oh yeah...she's not eating because she doesn't like being tested and you're having problems because you can't relax her.... Oh...forget that idea!" HUGE SIGH coming from him. Then...."yes...she's a difficult patient alright...well let me know what you come up with." I'm sure he's hoping that I'll find the "magic" and let HIM know for other patients. (Tin Foil Magic Wand time Glitter and all? ;) )

I'm going out in a bit with hubby to catch a tea out for a change and try to get rid of this nasty headache. About the only thing that I've had ANY sort of success with..and even that is limited to when she feels like it...is sprinkling some FortiFlora (the canine version) over her food. If I mix it through it...no go but, sprinkling it...she'll eat the top layer so, I have to stand there, singing to her, sprinkling, praying and thinking of ways to keep her amused without thinking that I'm about to give her a shot or test.

I'll take up playing an instrument if it will help get her to eat by being serenaded! ;)




bsmith said:
@Louellen, I'm glad the humor has been helping you. I laughed at the thought of your hubby thinking you're having an affair with the vet since you're calling each other so frequently. Keep making those tinfoil crowns and wands. However, you and @Blamethecats and Hannah should be wary of using glitter. You do know that glitter is the herpes of craft supplies, right? Once you use some of it, you will never be able to get rid of all of it and bits of it will continue popping up in odd places for the rest of your life. BEWARE THE GLITTER!

Seriously though, I think that you've expressed some wonderful insights in your post and @Blamethecats and Hannah's reply was everything that I would have liked to write too (though I would have used more commas and ellipsis ;) ). Dealing with illness and trying to get your cat to eat the appropriate foods can be so difficult. I had a little meltdown myself last night after learning that I need to switch Edwin's canned food again. I've spent so much time in the past month already dealing with food (combing through the food lists, standing in the cat food aisle reading labels and cursing, and trying to get Edwin to eat the food that I've brought home.) I'm almost to the point of going to the pet store and buying a bunch of feeder mice and releasing them into the house. I think that a fabulous idea, don't you?

As far as the dry food to wet food switch, you could also try sprinkling a little of the dried food that Morrigan likes on top of the canned food. You could also try grinding the dry food up and sprinkling a bit of that on top. This might make the canned food more appealing. In the meantime, here are a few links on getting your cat to eat more and transitioning your cat from dry to canned food:

How to Stimulate Your Kitty's Appetite

Tempting Your Cat to Eat

Transitioning Dry Food Addicts to Canned Food

I went through both the appetite lists trying to get Edwin to eat. Once you start garnishing your cats plate (a little sprinkle of catnip around the edges with an amuse bouche of freeze dried beef liver), it starts getting a little ridiculous, but I would have done anything if it would just get him eating. I was considering the addition of spinning plates on sticks to the act, but my lack of coordination and, thus, the plates falling to the floor would have probably scared the cat. Now it's better living through chemistry and adding Cyproheptadine to Edwin's meds has him eating much better.

Hugs to you and here's hoping that Morrigan starts eating better and becomes more comfortable with home BG testing soon.
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Suepea...my first Sugar Kitty was SO placid that I could have pierced his nose as long as he had his food in front of him. He was a total doll and let me do anything I needed to do with him or for him. I was actually so good with doing things with him that the vets used to hand me a script for meds to get at a compounding pharmacy for his needs and tell me...just give him the shots...you can do it. And, sure enough...Topper was incredible with some pretty hefty injections.

Morrigan...we're talking Regan from The Exorcist! I'm waiting for pea soup to be spit at me and the 360 degree head spin! I swear she can do it! ;)


SuePea said:
I have got an enormous amount of respect for you, fighting like you are! I have 2 cats and the one with the problem is the most laid-back animal I have ever met. I can do almost anything with him. I don't know what I'd do if it was my spunky younger one. He'd slice me to ribbons the first time I tried to get a BG sample from him. You are doing an amazing job & don't let yourself tell you otherwise!:D
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Holy crow, Lori & Lulu! I just looked at Lulu's SS and wow! No wonder you are monitoring so closely. It's as though Lulu was in high numbers for a short period of time and with the insulin...within a VERY short period of time...she dropped down into both normal and hypo levels! With numbers like that...I'd be testing silly too. That has to feel like a roller coaster ride. I also see where you had to treat for hypo and just...WOW!

But, may I ask (just to understand...not questioning anything by any means)...I saw that her insulin amounts were going up and down then, up again, now down. Was that on your own accord or what your vet ordered? (The reason I'm asking is that our vet wanted to start off at 2 units and when I ddi the calculation, it seemed too high for her weight so, he agreed and put it down to 1 unit to start with and I'm wondering whether I did the right thing in questioning that seeing as Lulu has come down so quickly). I'm also seeing that Lulu's weight has dropped. If you don't mind me asking...is that because of the diet, the insulin making her appetite smaller?

In YOUR case...of course, you'd have to test often. No doubt. :)

And yeah....we have to go up to 5 cent's worth now as they round off too LOL ;)



Lori & Lulu said:
Never underestimate the beauty of valium :p JK
When I told my vet that I would be home testing, she mentioned that some people take it a little too far -- become obsessive compulsive. Well, she`s entitled to her opinion, and I respect her very much, but Lulu is MY cat (correction: I am Lulu`s bean) and we`ll do things the way we think is best, with the help of this forum. If you look at Lulu`s SS, some days I test many times, sometimes a few. Depends on her numbers. And there are lot of informed people on here whom I`ve come to trust.
Just my .02 for what it`s (by the way, the penny is no longer minted in Canada).

Glad you`re here, Louellen :)
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Louellen said:
OMG...bsmith....I think I just about fell off of my chair, laughing at your idea of releasing mice through the house to get your cat to eat out of desperation! You're not going to believe this but...I was thinking of throwing her outside and hoping she would catch a few mice on her own! (I cannot sit up for laughing right now). I think your idea is better. If I could stand having mice in my house...I'd let her go to it! That's how desperate I am too.
And, talk about insanity...I SING to Morrigan to get her to eat. I'd do the spinning plates on sticks act for her too...but, like you...I'm afraid the crashing would send her into a nervous breakdown for months on end. ;)

I was in the pet food store the other day, sunglasses on my head, reading glasses hanging from my shirt collar and fishing through my purse for my glasses, mumbling (with non-G rated mutters) about where my glasses were. Some poor older woman, put her hand on my shoulder and said, "there they are, Dear", pointing to my shirt collar.
Out came my cell phone, trying to find the calculator function to do the math to find the carb percentage and I thought I was going to go postal in there. I must have at least one, if not 2 of every brand we can get up here that fits the numbers. I had forgotten to bring the list with me (my bible of cat foods) so, I had to do the calculations...some with print so fine that I couldn't see it with my glasses on and had to get a store associate to try with a magnifying glass. They even offered me a seat to do it with. All that I could think of was....what's the use? She's NOT going to eat it anyway and walked out with yet another credit card receipt to magnetize to my fridge so that I can take back the dozens of unopened cans. I have even cried in stores through sheer frustration, confusion and not knowing what to do.

You know the oddball thing is...there's many of us on these forums, trying SO hard to keep our cats safe, doing the right things and trying so desperately. Yet, there's millions more people out there with diabetic cats (and other ailments) who are listening to their vets, feeding what they'll eat, upping the dosages as needed through vet office curves and not as stressed out as I am. Yet...I can't "un-know" what I know now so, I persist and try.

Meanwhile...setting feeder mice free through the house is looking better and better as an option right now! ;)

And, thank you so much for the links. I've got more reading ahead of me now.

But, I had to laugh. One vet (my favourite vet) asked me, "what does she really like". I had to answer..."everything that is bad for her to be eating and I'm sure..for me to go dunk my head in the toilet until I can't breathe." He laughed. I thought some more (I've tried the tuna, tuna water, low sodium broth, heating, chicken pieces, freeze dried treats, crumbled freeze dried treats sprinkled, parmesan cheese, real cooked liver pieces, sardines in water, heck...I'd even fry a mouse up if I had to!) Finally, I said, "cat nip...she LOVES cat nip". He said..."then put it on her food!" I said, "ok...but...then, how will I know what is cat nip induced "drunkenness" or hypo symptoms. He answered, "you'll have to test". I stopped, he stopped and I guess it clicked in because he answered..."oh yeah...she's not eating because she doesn't like being tested and you're having problems because you can't relax her.... Oh...forget that idea!" HUGE SIGH coming from him. Then...."yes...she's a difficult patient alright...well let me know what you come up with." I'm sure he's hoping that I'll find the "magic" and let HIM know for other patients. (Tin Foil Magic Wand time Glitter and all? ;) )

I'm going out in a bit with hubby to catch a tea out for a change and try to get rid of this nasty headache. About the only thing that I've had ANY sort of success with..and even that is limited to when she feels like it...is sprinkling some FortiFlora (the canine version) over her food. If I mix it through it...no go but, sprinkling it...she'll eat the top layer so, I have to stand there, singing to her, sprinkling, praying and thinking of ways to keep her amused without thinking that I'm about to give her a shot or test.

I'll take up playing an instrument if it will help get her to eat by being serenaded! ;)
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I'm might have to dial down my hilarity, or take out some sort of laughter induced injury insurance policy rider, if people are going to start falling out of chairs. :woot: That or I'm going to have to find glow in the dark ace bandages for those larger injuries.

Edwin gets to go outside during the day now so he has caught some mice, a couple of moles, and a chipmunk. The problem is that I don't think he knows that he can eat them. He's been an indoors only cat for most of his life. There are never any marks on the creatures he brings me. I'm thinking this issue probably stems from the fact that I've scolded him in the past for ripping up his toys. He doesn't want to rip up his new "outside" toys, which he seems to think belong in the middle of the living room floor. (Those stay outside Edwin, outside. Especially if they're still mostly alive. It's a lovely gift you've brought me, but it doesn't really go with the living room decor. Cat feng shui is much different than the human version.)

Actually, my main concern for Edwin being outside was about his "hunting." Early on, when he was first being allowed loose outside, I was outside reading a book and keeping and eye and/or ear on him. I heard a deer making that noise they make when they're unhappy and looked up to see Edwin closely stalking a group of five full grown whitetail deer (100-150 lbs each in this area). The deer recognized the stalking behavior and kept backing up.

Since the deer know me, I've known a number of them since they were yearlings, and they know that Edwin's my cat, they kept looking at me in confusion and for help. My cat was clearly viewing them as prey, but he's only a nine lbs house cat who's pretty old, has bad arthritis, and has spent most of his life indoors. I'm pretty sure he can't take down a full grown deer.

I tried calling him off, but he was too deep into hunting mode to pay attention. I reminded him that he doesn't even like venison as we've tried feeding it to him in every form possible and he won't touch it. I reminded him that deer bite. (You should sit on the floor to read that link or improvise a seat belt for your chair. My Dad originally read me that story out of one of his hunting magazines.)

I finally gave up on trying to call Edwin off and just told the deer that they were going to have to kick his butt a bit to convince him that hunting deer was a bad idea. I asked them to be gentle about it since he's pretty old and apparently even more "special" than I originally thought. The deer went just went away that day, but one of them later on must have gently convinced him to stop stalking deer. Edwin has stopped going after the deer, but isn't scared of them. It must have also made him think twice about what animals he goes after. When we had wild turkeys in the yard last year his eyes got really big and then he moved to get behind me. I think he's getting smarter, maybe. :)

Boy, that story turned into a whole mini-novel.

I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only crazy cat lady hanging out in the cat food aisle and using four letter words that would make a sailor blush. It sounds like a nice pet food store as they offered you not only a magnifying glass to use, but a chair too. Don't worry about that little old lady, she's probably heard those words before ;) .

Edwin's pretty big on catnip too, so I definitely used that in trying to get him to eat. As a bonus it's low carb too! Are you using the canine version of Forti Flora because that's what you already had on hand or because you can't get the feline version in Canada? Either way, I'd be willing to mail you some of the feline version. I already have some of it and Edwin wants nothing to do with it. Let me know if you want me to send you some.

About the people who don't test and just give their cats the insulin dosage and food sold by their vets, I suspect that a number of those cats may not have as good of an outcome, especially with regards to being able to go into remission. As the prescription food is often still higher in carbs than a lot of the foods being fed by people here, I think that's the main thing that keeps those cats from having disastrous hypos. I also wonder how many of those cats have a shortened lifespan due to hypos or, on the other side, issues related to DKA. However, I have no idea about the statistics of the lifespan of cats who are regularly BG tested and have their insulin adjusted and regulated carefully versus cats who go with the no testing and just stick with the vet prescribed dose.

I know that for Edwin, with the somewhat odd way that he reacted to Lantus, he was probably a disastrous hypo just waiting to happen. I hate to think what might have happened if I had not been testing and had just stuck with the initial dose given to me by the vet. He was on his prescribed dosage of 1 unit for one shot and was then immediately droppped to 0.5 unit because of his initial reaction. My vet said don't test, just give him the prescribed dose no matter what his preshot number is. There was no way that I was going to do that. I refused to even start insulin until I had a BG test kit in one hand and karo syrup in the other. However, I guess other cats are just able to deal with insulin better and are better able to self correct their BG if it goes too low.

I hope you and your hubby have had a nice relaxing night out. A little time off and away from the stress should be helpful. Tell your hubby that tomorrow night you'll fry him up some nice mice. Oh wait, those are supposed to be for the cat. :rolleyes:
 
Louellen said:
Oh dear, Blame....I just realized how my recounting what the vets said to me yesterday, sounded. I'm so sorry. I did NOT mean to say that everyone who was testing often was "off side" or "wrong". Not by any means! I know it sounded that way and I DO apologize (now that I've re-read how I wrote that).
These 2 vets were responding to MY personal issues with Morrigan and her personality and how stressed it was making both of us. They were both trying to reassure me that I was doing ok and that it's ok to relax a bit right now, given the type of insulin she is on (the Lantus) and the levels she's at right now (meaning that she's not likely to go hypo or too far out of range in highs) at this particular point in time. They were both trying to stop me from running to my doc for a script for Valium. ;) I have been a total wreck over this. Part of it is because (as I was speaking with another member via private message) I've lost so many family members and so many much loved pets over the past 15 years now that I am TERRIFIED of doing something wrong and losing another much loved member of my life. I feel terribly guilty because I can't get the readings that a lot of members here are getting and having a mini-breakdown over it. They were simply trying to reassure me that if I can't get them, not to worry and that the main thing is (as you've said) to get her to trust us, EAT and come out of hiding. Then, the monitoring can be done more often. I'm SO sorry that what I wrote sounded as it did. I truly didn't mean it to sound that way. It was really just reassuring me that it's "ok" right now to NOT be "obesessive" with it as there is no need at this point and doing more harm than good to her and myself. That's all...it's MY personal situation that they were addressing and, I'm sure...they don't want the "freak outs" coming from me. :)

And, yes...you're right. I see by some member's charts that their cats have reached a point of "normalcy" or closer to it and they "could" go hypo or...need a reduction or even quit the insulin soon. I see WHY the testing are as they are. And, I know that Morrigan will eventually have to be upped on her dosage and will require more testings than I'm doing. Certainly what you're saying about testing before each shot and a mid-range is necessary when that happens. I am just worried silly (sick) about her not wanting to eat much and being so skittish with us that we barely see her. I need to back up the horses just a tad and try to get to a point where that eases a bit, get her eating and hope that she'll come around to feeling comfortable around us again.

I don't disagree with anything anyone says in here and that's why I'm here....I need the support, information and help and I DO enjoy everyone here that I've met.
Please disregard the way that I said that. I truly only meant it to pertain to MY personal situation with Morrigan's temperament and the trouble I'm having in getting her to comply with things. It's just going to take time for both of us. :)

Thanks Blame. You've been nothing but, kind. :)[/
Hey Louellen, don't worry too much about things said in posts coming out wrong, I've done that several times by just trying to keep a post short, it comes off as being testy. So much of what you're saying hits close to home for me! My first few days I felt like I was in a fog and just so overwhelmingly sad. The day I got the diagnosis, I cried all the way home from the vet, 15 miles, and outright bawled when I broke the news to my husband. Overwhelmed is a word we all see a lot of on this board, it's very normal to feel this way. We've all wondered how or if we'll ever have a normal life again. We will, just a "new normal". Our families think we're insane for what we go thru for our sugar baby, Goofus, but we love him and will do what we need to for him. We're avid campers, so this being our first summer since his diagnosis, we're not sure how it's going to work yet, but we'll figure it out.

Luckily, our vet is very well educated in feline diabetes, he even had one for several years. He definitely advises home testing, he and the techs give wonderful instructions on "how to" and he gave me his personal cell number with instructions to call anytime, day or night, for any reason. He has calmed me down thru several meltdowns.

He does take a little more relaxed position on the dry/wet food thing, he says too many changes only makes it more difficult on all concerned. Our jobs and lifestyle simply do not allow for strictly wet food, but there are low carb dry foods too, Evo Cat & kitten is only 8.4 carbs, and very affordable. If you can't find it in your area, it can be ordered from Chewey.com, free shipping if you order $49 worth of stuff.

One other suggestion, at every opportunity, pick up your kitty and love her up really good, then put her down, that way she'll learn that you're not going of poke her everytime. Best of luck to you.
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Louellen, I just find your post now and I can see you got already lots of post, respond from great members. Please, don’t bet up yourself. You see.. you gave me so much great information a couple days ago, what I still try to take in, learn and checking into.
You are doing great!!!I was in the same shoes two years ago when Kangaroo was diagnosed. He was a dry food addict, a junky commercial one. The first month was a hell for both of us. He was running away anywhere where he can, up on the high cat tree under the king size bed etc. and I was chasing, grabbing him, wrestle with him to getting blood from him. That wasn’t easy either - by that time both of us was exhausted. Giving the shots .. I had tons of fur shots because he jumped in that moment when I put the syringe in him. After a month started to change, he doesn’t run away but still was scared. I always used a same place on one of the sofa to check, feed and shot. I tried to sit with him when everything was down and pat him so he would have some pleasant experience in it too. These day he wait me at the kitchen and I follow him to “his place”.
As Chris mentioned too, He loves the cooked/ baked chicken mostly breast but not that fussy. He always get a little after his meal as a treat or some times when he doesn’t want to eat, I start with that and then he finishing the can too.
I was bad, I took him off from the dry food from one day to the other. (Oh that crying..)He was hunting dry food peace’s when the door opened and the other healthy kitties finished with the meal. He even eat the dog food when I left it out accidently.
I know how easy to say that but try not stress out yourself. Your nervousness will go over her and makes thing worse. Give a time and patient to you and to her. It will get easier and that time you will think back, smiling on the present situation.
As others mentioned it you should check out BJM’s signature link and just ask questions, and vent when needed, there is so many very experienced, knowledgeable member here who happy to help with suggestion, opinion and good advice as you did for me too..
 
bsmith said:
Here's a good post on traveling and camping with your diabetic cat.
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Thank you so much for the camping tips! We have a fifth wheel camperso it's not so hard that way, but the thing is, Goofus is such a scary cat, pardon the pun. He's terrified to ride in the car, going to the vet is awful for him. I'm afraid he'll be miserable the whole time. Maybe we could try a couple of one nighters first to let him adjust.
 
Mogmom and Goofus said:
Thank you so much for the camping tips! We have a fifth wheel camperso it's not so hard that way, but the thing is, Goofus is such a scary cat, pardon the pun. He's terrified to ride in the car, going to the vet is awful for him. I'm afraid he'll be miserable the whole time. Maybe we could try a couple of one nighters first to let him adjust.
Click to expand...
You could also try some backyard camping at first to get him used to it. Having a camper definitely makes it much easier than a tent. About the car rides, maybe try to ease him into it with some short trips around town that don't end at the vet. If he's anxious in the car there are anxiety meds and sedatives for cats that you could use, but there are a few other things you could try first. Edwin's a big scaredy cat too. A few things that help him are calming collars, feliway spray, Bach's rescue remedy, and TrueDose calming liquid. If those things fail, play "The Ventures" in the car. Cats love "The Ventures." ;)
 
Louellen said:
Holy crow, Lori & Lulu! I just looked at Lulu's SS and wow! No wonder you are monitoring so closely. It's as though Lulu was in high numbers for a short period of time and with the insulin...within a VERY short period of time...she dropped down into both normal and hypo levels! With numbers like that...I'd be testing silly too. That has to feel like a roller coaster ride. I also see where you had to treat for hypo and just...WOW!

But, may I ask (just to understand...not questioning anything by any means)...I saw that her insulin amounts were going up and down then, up again, now down. Was that on your own accord or what your vet ordered? (The reason I'm asking is that our vet wanted to start off at 2 units and when I ddi the calculation, it seemed too high for her weight so, he agreed and put it down to 1 unit to start with and I'm wondering whether I did the right thing in questioning that seeing as Lulu has come down so quickly). I'm also seeing that Lulu's weight has dropped. If you don't mind me asking...is that because of the diet, the insulin making her appetite smaller?

In YOUR case...of course, you'd have to test often. No doubt. :)

And yeah....we have to go up to 5 cent's worth now as they round off too LOL ;)
Click to expand...

Sorry for the delay in responding, I just saw this post now. And please feel free to ask any questions at all, I never take offence as we`re all here to help each other. I`ve actually been using the guidance of experienced members of this forum as to testing and dosage adjustments. I`m using the TR protocol, but still don`t understand it completely, so the assistance of other members has been a godsend. Also, Lulu`s weight is dropping slowly because she needs to lose a few more pounds weight -- she was quite an obese kitty and I suspect that is what caused her diabetes. She lost a LOT of weight in a short period of time, along with some other symptoms, so I took her off to the vet for a full blood panel. Diabetes was the dx. I bought a baby scale so that I can monitor her weight. The vet says that if she loses slowly, that`s ok, but if she loses rapidly then I need to bring her in. Another reason that she`s losing is because she is now on an all wet diet, where she used to eat kibble -- high carbs, high calories in kibble.

Have a great weekend, Louellen and Morrigan.
 
Oh my goodness....another fit of laughter here over this thread. Bsmith...if you and I went cat food shopping together, we'd be thrown out of the stores. Either that or they'd be calling us "The Crazy Cat Ladies". I can tell you that a drunken sailor in a bar would be shocked at the words that come out of my mouth when crunching carb numbers, trying to read the TINY print on cans resembling the fine print on a legal document and asking out loud (with no one in particular to ask)...."why the #*** they didn't include the ash content?".

I'm not sure if Morrigan and Edwin would be best of friends or sparring buddies. Morrigan is also a "hunter". We had to attach bells to her because she'd come in with mice and birds as well, meowing and dropping them at my feet. And, the best part of this is...I live in a BIG city in an urban setting so, where she got them...I don't know. One time, she brought in a live bird (we won't talk about the live mice that lived with us until I captured them in "humane traps" and set them free). The bird flew, crazed through my house, feathers everywhere and droppings (to be G rated) on everything in the place. I finally opened doors (locking Morrigan, our other cat and the dog up in the bedroom) and the bird eventually flew out but, it took over an hour for it to do so. Then, began the clean-up. It took me 3 days to clean the house again, shampoo the area rugs, the couches and just as I thought I'd gotten it all, I'd find more down the backs of shelves, on walls etc. (one little bird can certainly create a LOT of excrement).

Tiger-Hobo...thank you for your kind words. I did feel badly that my post came across as though I was putting down home testing. I'm not at all doing that as it IS necessary. I just felt badly that while writing that in my "panic mode", it came out all wrong and not seeming as I meant it. I do love everyone in here and it's been my lifeline over the past couple of weeks as have the wonderful people that I've met thus far....including YOU. :) I hope to be able to help others too as I also learn....even if it's only moral support or a laugh or two. Sometimes, we can know all of the technical stuff but, we need "friends" to help us through too. :) So, thank you.

And, while I don't go camping...I'm following those tips too. We took Morrigan and her now, departed brother with us to a rented cottage for a week a couple of years ago (yes, we don't get on vacations often but, we send vets on them!) Morrigan didn't adjust very well to the change. She rammed herself behind the fridge and stayed there for 3 days, only venturing out to hit her litter box (thankfully she did that much). She ate little and took another week being back at home to re-adjust. What a nightmare that was. So, camping...nah...not for me....I would be looking for a fridge to hide behind in terms of the nightmare of trying to find HER. ;)

Keep the laughs coming. I thoroughly enjoy the humour. It breaks up the tension and I love to laugh. :)
 
Lori & Lulu said:
Sorry for the delay in responding, I just saw this post now. And please feel free to ask any questions at all, I never take offence as we`re all here to help each other. I`ve actually been using the guidance of experienced members of this forum as to testing and dosage adjustments. I`m using the TR protocol, but still don`t understand it completely, so the assistance of other members has been a godsend. Also, Lulu`s weight is dropping slowly because she needs to lose a few more pounds weight -- she was quite an obese kitty and I suspect that is what caused her diabetes. She lost a LOT of weight in a short period of time, along with some other symptoms, so I took her off to the vet for a full blood panel. Diabetes was the dx. I bought a baby scale so that I can monitor her weight. The vet says that if she loses slowly, that`s ok, but if she loses rapidly then I need to bring her in. Another reason that she`s losing is because she is now on an all wet diet, where she used to eat kibble -- high carbs, high calories in kibble.

Have a great weekend, Louellen and Morrigan.
Click to expand...


Thank you, Lori & Lulu....makes perfect sense. Morrigan was nearly 16 lbs too and that's what our vet told us too. When she started drinking and peeing like crazy and dropping weight (went from 15.8 lbs to 14.4 lbs in 4 months)...we knew something was wrong and had a full blood panel done as well as urinalysis. Diabetes and the vet said the same thing...her weight was an issue/factor in the start of the diabetes. She's now on both canned foods but, still clinging to half of her diet as m/d kibble.

Thank you for that answer. :)
 
Hi Louellen,
Like everyone else has said. you are doing great, and try to remember to breathe and relax! Morrigan makes me appreciate how mellow Mitz is. I feel very lucky for that! We've even taken her on a few vacations with us and she's an amazing traveller which I think is extremely rare in a cat! So, Morrigan is clearly a kitty who HATES change. I think your vets made some very valid points regarding easing up on the tests. While I can't imagine not testing at least 3 times a day now, it took me about 8 months to work up the nerve to test every day. You've made amazing progress in just 1 week, don't forget that :). Again as others have said, the most important thing at the moment is getting her to eat. Morrigan might need to make that transition much slower than other cats and thats ok, even if it means that she eats kibble for longer than you'd like. The next most important thing is working up to testing. Don't beat yourself up if you can't get as many tests as you'd like right now. Morrigan needs to get comfortable with a brand new routine and lots of annoying things that she's never experienced before. She might need to do this in teeny tiny baby steps with lots and lots of bribery. If she loves catnip, maybe give her a tiny bit as a reward when you bring her to your test spot and play with her ears several times without even trying to test, for example. If she'll let you handle her feet, maybe paw pad tests would be less stressful. Maybe it means going a day or 2 with out actually testing. I think that would be OK if it helps both of you get more comfortable. You'll get there. As her body gets used to the insulin, she'll probably start feeling a little better and that might help too.

Sorry if I'm just repeating things you've already heard but I guess I just wanted to emphasize the point that every cat is different and what ever works for your cat is the right thing. Morrigan is very lucky girl to have such dedicated humans!
You most definitely deserve your tin foil crown!:cat:

Joan
 
Thank you Mitzelplik's Mom (Joan). It really helps to be reassured with everything. I'm working my way up with once a day in testing. I have to choose the point at which I test though. I try mostly AMPS but, if I don't get that one, I get the mid-range. Today, I've skipped the AMPS test as she was fairly testy this morning and after a few days in a row of AMPS being 14. something (as well as her having eaten half decently this morning), I figured it wasn't worth her nerves or mine. Besides, I kind of like to have my fingers and arms to give her the shot and not sit in an ER, waiting for stitches. ;)

So, besides skipping one day thus far, I'm getting at least one test in a day. Today, I have to go out and run errands or we'll be eating the cat and the dog for dinner instead ;) But, I hope to get a mid-range reading today and perhaps, a PMPS reading. I'll settle for mid-range though if I can't get the pre-shot tonight and the numbers are still within her usual range as I know the PM reading will be higher than the mid-cycle (that's her best eating time of the day usually).

I am getting better at it....meaning, getting one with a writhing, hissing, growling cat and hubby holding her. :)

Does anyone else seem to hate certain parts of their days (i.e.: testing and shot times) like me? ;) (mind you...I do this for her, knowing that I want her healthy and here with us...even if she hates me for it)
 
Did we mention giving a low carb treat at every test, regardless of success? It can really help with the cooperation.
 
Thanks BJM...yes...I have treats for her but, of course...she won't look at the low carb versions that we can get up here. I've tried the "freeze dried" in all the flavours and no go. So, I put down (yes, I know it's bad) about 3 Luv's Tuna treats (which she LOVES but...doesn't eat most of the time. It distracts her, smelling them though for at least 10 seconds). Every once in awhile, she'll eat a piece or 2 but, that's rare. She's too busy, looking at what I have in my hands. :)

I'm going to try real Tuna again or chicken. :)
 
Lulu is still grumpy about ear pokes and injections. I softly sing songs from my childhood hoping to calm her somewhat. And reward her with treats (she loves Orijen dried boar), scritches and telling her what a wonderful girl she is.
 
My old civie sometimes gets fussy with food and his "food fix " is a few bits of pan fried chicken. I know I shouldn't do it, but a few little pieces seem to trigger his appetite. Baked or poached don't cut it. Everything is better fried! I also had a cat years ago who would climb all over us to get some smoked oysters! Gotta think outside the box with some of these babies. That said, Menace my diabetic is still not falling for any of my oddball ploys! HUGE SIGH!!! Caviar anyone???!!
 
Pan fried chicken....hmmmm...haven't done that in years, MrWorfMen's Mom. I'm going to have to give that a shot because roasted isn't cutting it for Morrigan either. Mind you, Hubby is also diabetic and watching cholesterol so, I'll have to keep him out of the pan. But, you just gave me an idea! I wonder about chicken LIVER fried? She loves that. Thank you for the idea! (mind you...I'll have to slap my hand to stay out of the pan if I do those!)

Lori & Lulu....oh yeah....last night and this morning has seen one cantankerous cat. My singing could likely clear a room so, it's no wonder SHE doesn't like it. ;) She gets all kinds of pats, "noogies" (head rubs), treats and the like. Nothing works when she doesn't want to get the ear poke. At best, I get to do the right ear but she won't let me touch the left for some reason though...it seems fine. I hate poking just one ear all of the time but, I did get some Polysporin ointment with Lidocaine to use only when she won't sit well. It's supposed to take some of the "ouch factor" away. I mainly use Vaseline though.

We're using the injector needle right now with the pen as she's on 1 full unit (will have to switch to syringes if her dosage goes up to a half point).
Hubby gave PM shot last night but, the needle portion bent so, we can only assume that it bent at the skin and may not have gotten in at all. We're questioning a "fur shot" even though I couldn't find any trace of it in the fur.
This morning's number was ridiculous (19.2) and she's been nibbling on food about a half hour prior to testing and now, thinking that the shot didn't get in last night at all. I haven't seen it this high since before we began insulin.
Then, I tried to do the test and give the AM shot and what a mood she was in! She tried to run as I got it in.... but, thankfully, I hadn't injected yet (that pen injector really does work in that aspect of things as it shows that there hadn't been an injection). I had to poke again but, she tried to run just as I pushed the button. I'm not sure I even got that in.
I guess we are having a bad day and I will have to re-check her numbers mid-cycle. Not sure why she was so uptight last night and this morning (I mean...more than her usual upset self). Very difficult cat to deal with. Even her vet has said that he's not seen many cats as difficult and wishes us well.

I just made an appointment with my chiropractor for tomorrow (Tues) as my back, neck and shoulders are so tight I could snap if I try to bend. It's all from struggling with Morrigan to calm her and get the tests and shots. This HAS to settle down somehow as I'm ready to throw something through a window with it closed soon. ;)
 
@Louellen Have you tried Feliway? It's feel good synthetic pheromone that helps calm some cats. You can get a diffuser that plugs into an electrical outlet or spray to use where ever and whenever needed. I don't think it works with all cats but it might be worth a shot since Morrigan's world is unfortunately being rocked a little more than she's comfortable with these days. It might just save your back and your windows!
 
Yes, thank you MrWorfmen's Mom. My previous vet now works for the manufacturers of Feliway and I've tried the spray that he gave me for free. He suggested that I try spraying myself and Karl with it as well as the blanket that she gets put on for the shots and tests. It doesn't seem to work for her for some reason. Even he admitted that it doesn't work for every cat. But, you have given me an idea! She LOVES catnip so, I might try rubbing some into he blanket she sits on. Mind you...that might cause her to try to "roll through it" but, it's worth a try. :) Thank you! :)

How does one tag someone with the link like that? Got to figure that one out next. :)

(My head hurts from learning now! ;) )
 
@MrWorfMen's Mom

Ha! just figured it out! :) Look above MrWorfmen's Mom :) XO

If new members are reading this (as I am still a new member)....you "tag" by typing in the "@" sign then type in the name of the person you wish to tag (or start). A drop-down menu will open up with the person's name or similar names. Just click on that name and it will enter it as a "linked tag". :)

We learn something new every day. :)
 
Louellen said:
At best, I get to do the right ear but she won't let me touch the left for some reason though...it seems fine.
Click to expand...
Hannah also prefers the right ear, and I've never been able to figure out why, either. However, she does allow me to do the left if I insist on it. She just keeps turning her head from left to right, up and down, when I do. Guess she figures if she makes it challenging enough, I'll give up... but I don't... only once in a while. Fortunately, that's about as difficult as my furbaby ever gets. Guess I'm blessed to have such a good patient.

Again, best wishes. Next, we're hoping Morrigan will let you grab a few PMPS numbers. You might not think you're making much progress, but I can see that you are. Those yellow numbers on her spreadsheet aren't all that bad. :cat:
 
Rosa usually prefers the right ear too. Though for some reason, I also find I tend to get a better "hit" with the lancet on her right ear as well, so maybe she's learned that it's over quicker when I use the right instead of the left. I can only think that it's something to do with the angle with me being right-handed - there's no way I could use the lancet left-handed to get the same angle on her left ear!
 
@Louellen - If the catnip doesn't work, try to some honeysuckle scent and see if she likes that. I had never heard of it but a friend told me her cats, who aren't overly affected by catnip, love it. Pretty bad when we end up trying to "drug" our cats to give them their medicine. catnip.png
 
the mention of snacks reminded me, years and years ago, I used to be able to buy whole, dried little minnow type fish for cat snacks. They may even have been sardines. My cats loved them! I haven't seen them in so long I forgot about them. Has anyone seen anything like it? They ought to be low carb, it's just dried fish...
 
Oh - I'd completely forgotten about those type of cat treats. I had some for my 2 once, years ago, as well - I think they were whitebait...very small and they were the whole fish. I haven't seen them in years, though I can't say I've looked for them either!
 
it would be so nice to find them again. I think it could be good for their teeth, kind of crunchy--and possibly really nice for any cat who misses crunchy kibble.
 
If I do find any anywhere (of course I'm going to have to check all the stores for them now you've reminded me they exist as my 2 used to love them too) ;) I can buy some extra and send you some. I'll let you know if I manage to get hold of any. :)
 
Or just let me know where you find them, if you find them at a big store! I'm going to check PetSmart and PetCo next time I get a chance. I know WalMart doesn't have them; I'd have seen them if they did.
 
Will do! :) Our Walmart here doesn't have them either...in fact the only kitty treats they sell are the horrible high carb ones (which unfortunately cats seem to love). If neither of us can find them in any of the bigger stores, we do have 3 or 4 locally owned and run pet stores near here that I'll check at too.
 
It looks like the same stuff (or as close as we're likely to find) to me. And a good price too! :D Thank you for finding them...off to order a couple of packs now - see if my 2 like them as much as they used to! :D :D
 
Oops - got distracted on Amazon as usual! ;) We are definitely going to have very happy kitties! :) :cat: :cat:

I never think about buying cat food on Amazon - where I used to live in the UK it was easier to get it locally so I don't think I'd ever have thought of looking there if you hadn't found it. :bighug:
 
Wow, we're going the whole gamut for our kitties, aren't we? I mean...who is doing that for us?
Anyone want to come back as one of our cats? I'm thinking I might have a nice life! ;)

Really, as much guilt as I feel in having to do this to her (mainly because she just wants what she wants and not what she doesn't want...spoiled brat that she is ;)), I figure that having people chase me around with bowls of food, treats, checking in on me, patting and loving me, singing to me, getting me "high" (catnip/honeysuckle scent...thank you @MrWorfMen's Mom for that suggestion...now to find it), hugging me, (watching them go red eyed and stuff up because of allergies to us and laughing at them), having them up all night, checking on me, getting them to come home early or leave later to ensure I'm ok, having them turn cartwheels to get me out from my several beds/hiding places, serving us "breakfast, lunch and dinner in bed", cleaning my toilet, being able to be grumpy, hit, whack and snarl and still have them love me, being able to watch them travel the 4 corners of the earth to find special foods and treats for me then watching that puzzled look as to how they're going to pay for it all....yeah...I think I could live my cat's life and be pretty comfortable and put up with a few "pricks" on the ear or butt...how about you?

Would you believe that I HAD to know what she was feeling so, I took one of the needles (not loaded with anything) and stuck it into myself several times to feel what she might be feeling. You know what? It's nothing (just in case you haven't tried it and been as stupid as I am). ;)

So, besides chicken frying, chicken liver frying, I'm going to be ordering dried fish and honeysuckle scent. Anything for our babies, right? :)
Ok...pass the Valium and sleeping pills, please as I'm going to need to take on another job to pay off my credit card debts.
Does anyone know if Amazon sells Valium and sleeping pills too? ;)
 
I see that Amazon ships for free on orders over $35.00. Given that the Canadian dollar is worth nothing...that means that each bag of dried whole fish is $1.99 U.S. so, after 5 bags of that...I'll need to spend another $26.00 U.S. to get the free shipping. Uhhhh...either I go shopping on Amazon or, I wait to see if your cats like 'em first. ;)
 
@Blamethecats and Hannah ...I'm going to try to get a PMPS reading tonight. :)
I haven't been able to get one at night as she is really grumpy at that point and my patience has worn thin by that time as well as not being able to see straight from being tired and worried that I'll poke myself first....but, yes...you are right. I'm going to need a number there sometimes too now. :)
And, yes...for me it is the right ear as well that she'll sort of...let me get to. The left...she somehow contorts herself into some sort of angle that just won't let me get it. It's as though it's more sensitive or something??? Maybe, I'm going to have to somehow change positions so that I can get the left ear now and again? I know she hates it but, I can't always hit the same ear. That poor thing must be sore. :(
 
Louellen said:
I see that Amazon ships for free on orders over $35.00. Given that the Canadian dollar is worth nothing...that means that each bag of dried whole fish is $1.99 U.S. so, after 5 bags of that...I'll need to spend another $26.00 U.S. to get the free shipping. Uhhhh...either I go shopping on Amazon or, I wait to see if your cats like 'em first. ;)
Click to expand...

Lou, the manufacturer is Hagen and if you go to their website, they will tell you where you can get their products in Canada. I am about dead certain this is the same snacks that I used to get for my cats 20 years ago.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
My old civie sometimes gets fussy with food and his "food fix " is a few bits of pan fried chicken. I know I shouldn't do it, but a few little pieces seem to trigger his appetite. Baked or poached don't cut it. Everything is better fried! ...
Click to expand...
My dad once did some market research, went to a pet food manufacturer, and the product development folks there said if you put the right fat on it, a cat might eat sawdust ... and did you ever notice the 'diet' foods sometimes have methylcellulose in them?
 
Hmmmm! Next time I roast a chicken or turkey, I'll try putting some of the pan drippings on canned food to see if that will entice my kibble addict. I can't for the life of me understand why any living creature prefers to eat kibble. Just the smell of it puts me off and the texture is somewhat like sawdust! Maybe I should get her nose checked!
 
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