2/26 - Sammy (formerly known as Sami) - AMPS 62; PMPS 118; +2 42; +3 56 - HELP Dosing?

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Tina & Sammy

Tina & Sammy

Member Since 2010
Yesterday's Condo

Hello everyone,

Sami had a great night. I almost want to say that those blue numbers from late yesterday AM and the start of the PM cycle were a bit of a bounce. Does anyone also think that? Or was it because I gave a skinny dose yesterday morning.

As you can see from the spreadsheet, I did stick with the 2.0 units last night and Sami did very nice. Didn't even come close to dropping too low. I still tested enough to make sure of that, but it made it a bit easier for me to fall back asleep after the tests.

We are starting with a lower PS then yesterday and I did go ahead and take the reduction that we had discussed yesterday. Even though I did reduce the dose, I still expect to have to fight a LOW this morning so here is my plan,

EDITED with UPDATES
AMPS - gave 2 MM instead of just one maybe we will get a bit of a food spike that will help keep from dropping so quickly. Sami doesn't seem to have food spikes the MM unless I give higher carb or multiple MM.

+1 - MM consisting of 8% (2 tsp) and ½ tsp (26%)

+1.5 - 1 ½ tsp (26%) + 1 tsp (8%)

+2 - MM consisting of 8% (2 tsp)

+3 - Regular MM 1 tsp (4%) 1 tsp (5%)

+4 - Regular MM 1 tsp (4%) 1 tsp (5%)

+5 - Regular MM 1 tsp (4%) 1 tsp (5%)

Skipped +6 MM


I will try to update this plan as I go through the cycle so you can see what I did and when.
 
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Nice AMPS. Good luck with the reduction. I hope Sami surfs along in nice flat numbers all day.
 
Well, we already took a bit of a plummet, I am starting to wonder if I should have been taking a larger drop in dose. Every cycle that wasn't a bounce I have fed HC.

Here is how I see it.

2/22: AM - 2.25 units - MM started - highs in the 300's
2/22: PM - 2.25 units - FLUIDS - dropped from 265 at PS to 79 at +6, just starting to seen GREEN again

2/23: AM - 2.25 units - not sure if AMPS was a bit of a bounce, but numbers held steady for the day
2/23: PM - 2.25 units - at the vet being shocked - Numbers plummeted to 43 by +2 - HC used to bring numbers back up

2/24: AM - 2.0 units - REDUCTION - we reduced this morning, but I also think there was a bit of a bounce from the lower numbers the night before
2/24: PM - 2.0 units - FLUIDS - 50 by +3.5 - HC used to bring numbers up

2/25: AM - 2 skinny - 48 by +2.5 - HC used to bring numbers up
2/25: PM - 2.0 units - small bounce ?

2/26: AM - 1.75 units - REDUCTION - 43 by +1.5 - HC used to bring numbers up


I am not really sure what to do for tonights PM shot. I am thinking if there is a bounce back up into the low 100's then I will stick with the 1.75 tonight, but if AMPS tomorrow morning is around 70 or under I think I should decrease to 1.5 units.

I know the goal is to hold the dose as long as possible, but Sami really went from having mostly YELLOW and PINK numbers with some BLUE and RED and a tiny bit of GREEN to almost ENTIRELY GREEN, minus the bounces.

I do want to keep Sami on insulin as long as possible but at these higher doses I just think it is too much. I am nervous about dropping down too much at once, but maybe we need to think about taking a reduction even if we just took a reduction the previous cycle.

I really need some advice on this, and what others thing and if they think it will work or if it will be a fail. Basically, I need someone to talk me off the ledge if I am FREAKING OUT AGAIN!
 
This is most likely left over depot action from your previous dose. Let's see how the rest of the cycle goes. There are some options -- like skipping a shot -- if you need to get the depot a bit more depleted (and need to get some sleep). I think you're trying to plan things out a bit too far in advance. Let the numbers you see guide you.
 
Beautiful start for Sami this morning!!!! I agree with Sienne. If at all possible, and providing he doesn't drop too low, try to hold the 1.75u for 3-5 days (6-10 cycles) just to give Sami a bit of time to readjust to the new dose, but then you already know that. Sami could bounce because of the recently reduced dose, too. As Sienne said, let the numbers guide you. :) Hang in there, Tina. Take a deep breath, and relax... You're both doing fine. :):bighug:
 
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@Sienne and Gabby and @Angela & Blackie & 3 Others Okay, I will try to hold it together today. Sami is surfing nicely from +2 to +3. I will be testing again in a few minutes for +4, and hopefully he hasn't gone low again. I would like to see all GREEN all the time, but if we keep dropping too low we are never going to stop the bounces even if they are little mini bounces.

This morning even before I tested at +1.5 I knew that Sami was nearing 40. He was sleeping and I woke him up to see how he was. He immediately started chopping a bit and then got up and went down to the kitchen. I followed and he was incessantly meowing like he did the other day. I did want to test before just giving the HC though, and got the 43. He might have even dropped a bit lower before the food kicked in.
 
He's looking great so far! :D If you have any MC food on hand, try giving him a bit of that mixed into the HC to see if he'll come up gradually as opposed to the jump that he did. He looked like he started to rise a bit more gradually after the +2 test, which is good. Everything is a trial and error with FD. Keep up the excellent work. :D Hang in there, Tina. :bighug:
 
@Angela & Blackie & 3 Others

I will try that. I have some Medium carb of around 11-12%, but it is a different protein than turkey. I am trying to keep Sami's diet all Turkey as much as possible because of the previous fluctuations with food, specifically duck. But I am pretty sure that the Friskies Supper Supreme has other proteins besides Turkey. Now that Sami's numbers are in the normal range I can probably experiment a bit more with foods again, but I don't want to screw it up. At this point I have the mindset "if it is not broke, don't fix it".
 
Tina, I know that feeling all too well. We all do. You do what's best for Sami, as you're the only one that knows him very well. I've tried countless different things over the years for Blackie, and eventually found something that did work. I did, however, stick with the same food, though, like you. The only difference is that I moved her feeding schedules around quite a bit, and found the jackpot schedule that she's on now. Now, I refuse to budge. LOL Are you able to try feeding him at different times to see if that may help with the #s...?
 
@Angela & Blackie & 3 Others

We just started the MiniMeals on Sunday, and I think that is one of the things that has made such a difference in Sami's numbers. When Sami went OTJ before it was within 10-15 days of starting MiniMeals.

I feed about 2 tsp of food every hour from AMPS to +6, and then provide another MM at +9 just to curb the appetite until PMPS. Sometimes we skip +6 if he doesn't seem interested, and obviously I have fed more when numbers are low and HC when needed.
 
Sami has been doing quite nicely on his surf today. I am going to give his little ears a break until +11 today because there is no reason to do additional testing when I don't think he has a risk of going low. If he starts to act funny then I will consider it, but for now +11 it is.
 
I took a brief look at Sami's SS, and his #s look very impressive! It's amazing what those mini meals can do. :D A very long time ago, someone on here suggested that I do the mini meals, but I was stubborn back then, and kept on doing what I was doing. I don't know how I changed her schedule, but I did, and I'm glad. It looks like that Sami's heading towards a string of better #s each day. WTG!!!! Keep up the excellent work, you 2! :D

One thing you may want to consider is getting a pet scale to keep tabs on his weight if you're concerned about it. Just a thought. :)
 
@Angela & Blackie & 3 Others Yes, the MiniMeals sent Sami straight to the Falls the last time, but it took me awhile to read through all the old posts to realize this. They were suggested to me back then and I had forgotten about them until I re-read the posts. I do weigh Sami on our regular scale, I just weigh myself and then weigh us together.
 
Good on the weighing. I used to do that, also until I decided to get a pet scale for Blackie. With regards to the mini meals, sometimes we hoomans are a bit slow on the uptake, aren't we? LOL I'm guilty of it, for sure. By the looks of things with Sami's #s, it looks like he'll be back on the falls again very soon. :D
 
Angela & Blackie & 3 Others said:
Good on the weighing. I used to do that, also until I decided to get a pet scale for Blackie. With regards to the mini meals, sometimes we hoomans are a bit slow on the uptake, aren't we? LOL I'm guilty of it, for sure. By the looks of things with Sami's #s, it looks like he'll be back on the falls again very soon. :D
Click to expand...

I really hope so.
 
Awesome surf going on today. :D

Neko isn't impacted much by how/when I feed her. I'd love to do away with one of her many meals, but she expects them all now. :rolleyes: I see that when you started feeding more/smaller meals, he is also getting less total food per day, which probably has an impact.
 
I vote for hold the dose too, as Sienne mentioned there will have been depot action in this cycle and it doesn't look like you had to struggle to keep him up
 
@Wendy&Neko Yes, with the MiniMeals Sammy is getting less food, and I think you are right that it definitely has an impact on the numbers.

@julie & punkin (ga) I stuck with the 1.75 tonight because he was a little higher than this morning. At +1 he is already down to 87, so I will definitely be monitoring the drop. I did give a little 8% with +1 so I might try that at +2 also. And maybe I should just give the 8% at PS as well. We will see how it goes tonight. If it looks like he is going to plummet I know I can give about 1 ½ teaspoons of the high carb and that seems to do the trick, but it takes almost an hour to show up in the numbers.

@Marycatmom We are hoping for the same thing. Looking for the next decrease, but definitely don't want to push it too fast. We know how important it is to keep them on insulin as long as possible.

@Vyktors Mum Yep, I kept the dose tonight. We might have been having a little bounce, I am not really sure the numbers trend up at the end of the cycle, but maybe it is just the shear fact the the insulin is wearing off. We hope it isn't too crazy of a night, but we can handle it if it happens.
 
I still think I should decrease to 1.5 units in the morning. I looked back at Sami's spreadsheet from 2010 we skipped shots, gave token doses, and decreased doses REALLY quickly, and we were at a much lower dose at that point. I am so conflicted. As I have already mentioned I want to give Sammy the best chance at remission and having it stick again.
 
I know even though Sammy was on insulin before and each time things are not exactly the same. But in 2010 after MiniMeals were introduced, we decreased about every one to two cycles until we hit .25 because each dose was sending him below 50, and that was even with a skip and a BCS dose along the way. Once we got to .25 we did hold that dose for 9 cycles. The first two cycles he went below 50, but we held anyway. Then he went below 50 two more times before we finally dropped to .10 unit.

Now I don't have a problem holding a lower dose longer in this fashion where we wouldn't consider the first two drops if they are in the first two cycles, but the fact that Sammy is dropping so quickly after the shot, it just makes me VERY nervous.
 
We usually don't do "back to back" reductions because the depot can continue to effect the numbers for up to 6 more cycles

Let's see how he does during this cycle, but if you're home and able to test tomorrow, I'd probably hold the 1.75 unless he drops too low tonight too and you have to work hard to get him up
 
I would wait and see how the rest of the cycle plays out before making any decisions. If he's easily bounced back up to surf out the rest of the cycle in safe numbers like yesterday then I'd probably hold the dose another cycle and maybe take a reduction the following cycle if he drops below 50 again. If you have to carb him a lot throughout this cycle then I'd take the reduction.
 
@Chris & China He is already at 42 at +2. I have already given 1 ½ tsp (26%), and we are still very early in the cycle. Do you think this is going to be enough to put him back in the mid - upper 50's or higher for the rest of the night? That is sort of what I did this morning, but we started at a much lower number so I am nervous that there will be even more action tonight?

@Vyktors Mum What would you consider carb a lot throughout?
 
you can decrease tomorrow morning if you want. you might want to drain his depot a little anyway.

When you're giving the 26%, are you giving mostly gravy? most of the carbs are in the gravy, not in the meat. Some people give the gravy first to pull up the blood sugar, then with the next test they give the meat - that can help sustain the rise. But for the initial raising of low numbers, i'd use the gravy.
 
He went up a bit 30 minutes after the HC, but now he has dropped a bit. I just gave another ½ tsp of HC along with some 8%. I think I will give him another ½ tsp of HC so that I can at least sleep for an hour or so.
 
ok, that's cool - you may want to find some with gravy. the trouble with only having pate is that Sammy might get full and not want more. You can always add honey or karo or maple syrup if you need to increase the carbs.
 
Tina, I'm wondering when Sammy's big news is going to be announced on Ravelry! I still can't believe it took eight years for the vets to figure out that she was a he! Blows my mind.
 
Tina & Sami said:
Do you think this is going to be enough to put him back in the mid - upper 50's or higher for the rest of the night?
Click to expand...

You never want to just feed some HC food and assume that the numbers will stay up....even if the HC food took him from 42 to 82, you'd want to continue testing for at least 2 hours from the last time he had food, or had at least 3 rising numbers.

Next time you go to the store, pick up some "Gravy Lovers" food...Fancy Feast has several of them and when you need to carb him up, you just pop the top and "squeeze" the gravy part out into a bowl and use that so you don't risk having him "fill up" and not be willing to eat later if you need him to. The carbs are mostly in the gravy anyway

What we mean by "work hard to keep him up" is like if tonight, he dropped below 50 so you gave him some HC food...if the next test he was still below 50 even after the HC, or he went up and then came back down and you had to keep feeding him to keep him above 50, that's what we mean by "working hard to keep him up"....If one little splurge of HC food brought him above 50 and he stayed there, that's different.
 
Mini meals made a difference for BK as well. I still feed him in the same manner.

Something important to keep in mind when making a dosing decision is that with Lantus you are not shooting the PS, you are shooting a number 3 or so hours in - when onset occurs.

Also, the effects of a reduced dose will likely not be seen in the same cycle but rather the one following.

I think Sami may be on a mission. . . :cool:
 
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