3/5 Chyna PMPS 99 +2 131 +4 88 CKD Questions

Morning LL! The head cold has set in to stay it seems and is making me super tierd. Chyna seems a little sleepy today too, but we have the 5 P's (except playing, which comes in spurts) so it's all good

Chyna has never been much for "treats", before diagnosis I'd tried temptations and such and she pretty much ignored everything, but on the rare occation I eat tuna she gets a tiny bit; it's the only thing she begs for. So I had trouble finding "treats" for ear poke time. I bought the (pure bites) chicken and she wouldn't touch them so I gave them away.

Then I bought the (pure bites) whitefish and shrimp ones since she loves tuna and they smell stronger, and she liked those. Everyone kept telling me their cat loved the chicken so yesterday I figured I'd try again and buy some, and now she loves the chicken and looks for more! Most likely a case of "what is this weird dry thing you're sticking in front of me?"...now she knows it's to eat :lol: Hope today she surfs in high greens while I work, I hate leaving her while we check this dose/pancreas sputter action. Have a good day!

Yesterdays Condo:
Chyna 3/4

Re: 3/5 Chyna AMPS 108

Good morning, Rachel!
What a nice amps this morning. Surf safely today, Chyna!

I use the PureBites treats exclusively. Ripley loved the Chicken, but now loves the Turkey and Shrimp even more -- won't go near the chicken now. I like how they (esp. the shrimp) can be served whole or crumbled over food.

Have a great day!
~Josie

Re: 3/5 Chyna PMPS 99 Ok,green shooting...

I never thought of crumbling them over food, good idea Another way to entice kitties to eat when they don't really want to! Well, I've only shot once on a green before, and it was before I knew mr.p was sputtering...wish us luck! :shock:

Re: 3/5 Chyna PMPS 99 Ok,green shooting...

Way to go Rachel! :mrgreen: Very considerate of Chyna to give you a 99 as your first green PS.

Occasionally my civie Theo needs some crumbled PureBites chicken on his food (especially turkey) before he'll eat it. If you buy the larger bags in the dog section, you'll find lots of chicken dust by the time you get to the bottom of the package. Great stuff for kickstarting appetite.

Re: 3/5 Chyna PMPS 99 Ok,green shooting...

Hmm I just wish she hadn't puked up her supper right after that...she is trying to stress me out tonight! I got her to eat a few more bites...but she seems to like to drop lower early in her cycle from what I can tell...

Re: 3/5 Chyna PMPS 99 Ok,green shooting...

I have one of the cats who doesn't want the chicken but she loves the turkey. ( how different can they be? :roll: )

When mine isn't wanting to eat, I crumble it near her nose so she can smell it.... that seems to really get her interested...
And the really great thing about the Purebites shrimp is you can put a little water on the dish and set them in the water and they re-hydrate.
That seems to really be a good snack. I'll take anyway I can to get some more water ingested...

Re: 3/5 Chyna PMPS 99 Ok,green shooting...

Hope you feel much better soon Rachel.

Poor Chyna to throw up! I use Whole Life freeze dried chicken treats. I grind them to a powder if I'm using it to put on food. It's more expensive than pure bites but my cats love it.

I marvel at the change in Chynas SS

Re: 3/5 Chyna PMPS 99 Ok,green shooting...

Good idea with the shrimp too, wow. And a grinder is a good idea too For her good looking SS, I'm hoping for remission some day soon...

Well, I finally got my thoughts together and could use some help with the CKD problem. I'm sure I won't get it all down but will try. Marje said she was ready for questions anytime and I'm sure more of you have experience too My lab results are in my picasa, both the 2 page one done last Monday, and the 1 page one done last Tuesday after being on IV overnight, located here:

Chyna Lab Results

My vet called tonight; I was in to pay my bill after work and asked the desk girl if I could stop antibiotics now, I missed the call but she left a message. She mentioned she had "the powder for her aenemia that can be sprinkled on her food" ready for me to pickup and she'd like me to start it soon. I'm not sure what it is, but she did mention erythropoietin when I was in last week to pick up Chyna. I found a few cat foods lower in phosphorus and still low in carbs that I would like to give her, I have the EVO one on order since it's the same brand I'm using now, just different numbers (lower). I've been reading on Tanyas site (which I realize is aimed at CKD cats and not CKD/Diabetics even though there is a section on diabetics) Forgive me if the answers are on this or Tanyas site and I missed them, I'm on information overload. So my questions:

Do her levels look that bad for aenemia? I only see an HCT on Chynas labs at 27.2 (am I missing the PCV or is that the same thing?), and I see on Tanyas site that PCV or HCT chart for between 20-25% is mild...so is 27.2 more normal? Or did I read that wrong? It looks like my vet has it as slightly low in their range of numbers, but if so, are just B vitamins and iron all that is needed for now? If so, how much is recommended? I am giving 1mg of methylcobalamin presently.

Should I increase her calories? Currently we are on around 225 a day, done by that formula on this website (sorry I don't know it offhand) as if her ideal weight was 11lb. But Tanyas site mentions 30-35 calories per lb of body weight which would be minimum 330 calories...

At one point on Tanyas site it says phosphorus should be under 0.5 dry matter but someone else mentioned to me under 1.0 dry matter; also it was told to me that they keep kitty under 250mg per 100kcal of phosphorus which I've found some good low carb foods on Dr. Lisas list (like the EVO one I want), but none under 0.5 dry matter. I'd really like to avoid the prescription higher carb foods...I do see on Tanyas chart that I'm ok at the phosphorus level for now, I think!

Can I still give her tuna water once in a while, or tuna/fish based treats?

Is the levels she is at ok, or should I be panicking? I think they indicate "Stage 2". I was hoping for good water intake and a lower phos food for now with some vitamins, but I'll do whatever I need to do to help my sweet girl

Thanks for any help you can give

Re: 3/5 Chyna PMPS 99 +2 131 CKD Questions

Do you have a scale to weigh Chyna? That's how we tell whether Zener is getting enough calories. I hope she's keeping food down now. I don't know about the CKD stuff and will be anxious to see what people say. Thanks for asking! Nice shooting too. :mrgreen: Not that much different than 106 last night.
Liz

Re: 3/5 Chyna PMPS 99 +2 131 CKD Questions

I do have a postal scale, she doesn't like it but will sit in the cat size basket I bought to put on top...usually only when it isn't on the scale, LOL. She was 11lbs a week and a half ago, and was 10.4 at diagnosis at the end of Nov. Not sure if ms.pukey made her glucose go up by getting sick or by eating a few more bites half an hour before her +2...but at least she's had something. She just had a drink of water too

Re: 3/5 Chyna PMPS 99 Ok,green shooting...

It may have been me who mentioned <1% phos foods for CKD. That's because the offerings for <0.5% are next to none except for prescription food. There's a lot more to choose from if you allow a bit more phos and use binder. I see some tuna-type foods on Tanya's list that are <1% phos, so it should be OK to feed. My renal civvie was getting weekly darbopoetin injections towards the end, though at the time I did not know how close the end was :-|. Her hematocrit was 15 (range 30.6-48.5), BUN 97 mg/dL (range 18-33), creat 8.5 mg/dL (range 0.7-1.8), phos 14.8 mg/dL (range 2.7-6.5) - pretty severe.

Others here will tell you that cats can live a long time with CKD with the proper diet and periodic blood checks. I really wish you could check renal values at home like BGs. Felt so helpless not knowing how she was doing in between appointments. You need to follow your gut and bring her in for bloodwork if she seems off.

MJ

Re: 3/5 Chyna PMPS 99 +2 131 CKD Questions

Rachel

IMHO, I would not start her on ESA (erythropoietin stumulating agent) yet. Normally, one waits until they drop below 20. If you start it too soon, and she builds up antibodies against it, then you've got issues. Use the methylcobalamine and Jarrows BRight for now. Her anemia is not as bad as Gus's and he's still doing well on the vitamins. I also wouldn't give iron....there is nothing in her bloodwork that indicates she needs it. I give 250 mcg methylb12 and 1/10th of a BRight daily. It has maintained Gus really well.

I think 30-35 calories/lb is alot for the typical cat. My cats would be waddling at that I would weigh Chyna every week. If she starts losing weight, increase her calories (assuming she is at a good weight now). It's really hard to control the muscle loss...good quality protein helps but it's part of the disease....muscle wasting.

I feed foods that are less than 1.00% P on a DMB. The other number you can use is mgP per 100 calories. I stay below 200. It's really important to keep Chyna eating and you have a balancing act between her kidneys and FD. Dr. Lisa gives both values on her charts.

I don't and wouldn't feed the prescrip diet. I think they are poor quality and we've been able to maintain Gus's weight and his P levels with our selections of commercial canned foods and a binder.

Yes...she can have tuna juice provided it is only tuna and water. Look closely because many are now in vegetable broth. That means soy and a few other things. So...tuna and water alone are good.. If the can also refers to tuna in a vegetable broth, you need to get a different one. Soy can cause anemia in cats.

I'm headed to bed but will try to give some other ideas tomorrow.

Re: 3/5 Chyna PMPS 99 +2 131 CKD Questions

Thanks, I'm pretty wiped myself, being sick and this is all emotional ;-) I've been only buying tuna in water, reading ingredients with just tuna/water, with no broth listed, and she only gets a bit once in a while I'll have to read the rest tomorrow when I am clearer, hopefully! Have a good sleep, thanks for the advice both of you.