01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29,+9=218, PMPS=328

yesterday's condo

keeping shot the same
Arrg she keeps loosing weight 9.4 to 9.2 almost 9.0 lbs :cry:
I wish I could get this right, already, feeling bad for my sugar baby.

AMPS=232
+6=29 15min=127.8 Does that sound possible, what now???, 15mins=154
+7=155
+8=166
+9=218



AAAhhhhh this cat is driving nuts with worry. She is all over the place like one of those crazy bouncing balls.
Just wondering is it possible that her own pancreas is kicking in every so often.
I fed her and corn syruped her and will test again in 15min.

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238

Morning you two!
Hugs to you and scritches to Emmy!! Have you posted a question mark in your subject line and asked about helping her gain weight? There are so many people on this forum who have dealt with almost everything that could possibly happen to your kitty. I'm sure someone has good ideas on how to help Emmy gain weight.
Take good care. mary and oliver

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238

What and how much/often is she eating?
Carl

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238

It's possible that with the switch to a canned food diet, this is effecting Emmy's weight. The canned food is better metabolized and some cats do lose weight. You may want to check with your vet as to what a good weight for Emmy would be. You can then use this formula from Dr. Lisa's website on feline nutrition to calculate how many calories per day Emmy should be getting:

Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70​

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238

She's eating whiskas chicken pate and she almosts eats 2 containers of it, through out the day.

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238

But I don't withhold food from her till after her Naidar. In order for her to eat well at it I pick up the food at Naidar other than that it's out for her to eat. I guess I can leave it out longer.....I'll try that.

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238 ?how to gain weight?

Don't measure based on the number of cans. Go by the calories. It's just like with people. If you need to gain weight, you eat more calories not just quantity.

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238 ?how to gain weight?

Hi guys .. some good advice here on getting weight back onto emmy .. I know mocha lost some weight when we switched her over to wet as well .. Emmy, how about some blues soon? Have a great day guys!

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29

Holy moley! 29?

You ok? She ok?

Carl

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29

I think she edited her first post to add what is happening now.

I would test again at +6.25 or even sooner. You want her out of the 20s now. And right after - out of the 30s. Come on Emmy, let's go up.

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29

I'm o.k. she's o.k. but I'm extremely puzzeled as to why? I thought I was safe being she was in the yellow and with the dose reduction....

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29

Might need dosing advice for her PM. I have no idea what I'm doing, so confused by this crazy cat and all her bouncing. I wanna do what's best for her but, obviously not doing the greatest job of it. confused_cat

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29

Things change! Never assume it will always go the same way - thats why you test - to catch when something changes.

Her pancreas may be starting to kick in intermittently.

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29

You are doing the best for her...you're testing her and making sure she's safe. Unfortunately, these kitties and their pancreases often have minds of their own, despite our best efforts!

How are are numbers now? Is she up out of those low numbers?

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29

I have to log off now, because I'm a work. I will ask for some dosing advice for you for the PM shot.

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29

Plenty of time before pmps... let's get her over 50 first.

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29

she went from 20 to 127.8 in 15mins. does that even sound possible????

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29

depending on what you gave her to raise her, anything is possible. However, you want to continue testing, because the HC can wear off and the numbers can drop again.

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29

When you get a number like that, retest and make sure it is not meter error or something. Any updates here?

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29

You're doing fine. You want to be feeding some HC and testing every 30 min. Could you update? You've got us all on the edge of our chairs.

In all likelihood, this is carry over from yesterday's dose. Even though Emmy has a tiny depot at this point, it can still take a little while for the depot to drain to the current dose.

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29

30min mark after +6 is 154

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29, 30min.=154

Well.......

Either you fed Emmy a boatload of high carb or your +6 test was a ringer. I would not give any more food and test in 30 min.

Jenny -- don't edit the content of your first post aside from the subject line. None of us go there to look for updates -- we go to the last post in the thread. In addition, if you change only the info in the first post, it will not bump your condo to the top of the board. You need to add a new post to bump the thread up.

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29, 30min.=154

+8=166
I don't want to be complacent but don't want to be testing her needlessly either should I check her again in 30min. or 1 hour you think???


should I take down the 911 now? man I need some Jameson now...cats driving me to drink lol

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29,+7=155, +8=166

Not offering any advice or anything. others can help you with that.
just to wish Emmy a nicer curve less bouncy. hope she comes stable with the does and good luck with the feeding two I'm sure she will gain weight soon because after switching from dry food the lose lots of carbs. which they don't need much of it anyway.

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29,+7=155, +8=166

Jenny,
What did she eat at +6 when you got the 29? If syrup/honey, how much?

Carl

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29,+7=155, +8=166

It was corn syrup and I twice put a gob of it on my finger and jammed it in her mouth, I' guessing like 1/4 tsp I also fed her wet food with a few HC crunchies in it.

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29,+7=155, +8=166

Ok. I think you could check at +9.
That's just a few minutes from now. If she hasn't dropped, you don't need to feed.
I was at work and driving when the excitement happened... I'm usually more "wordy" than that ;-)

Carl

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29,+7=155, +8=166

If I'm not gonna test her until +9, I'll feed her another 2 TBSP of food

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29,+7=155, +8=166

k thanks

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29,+7=155, +8=166

My thinking was to see if she's" holding her own" without more food. +9 is about 20 minutes from now?
Carl

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29,+7=155, +8=166

+9=218

crazy cat is going to be the death of us ALL!!!!!

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29,+7=155, +8=166,+9=218

No, that's a good number
It means she's remaining in safe numbers while not bouncing off the ceiling. I think you're okay till shot time. You can give her a snack if she's acting hungry.

That gives us three hours to figure out the PM dose
Carl

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29,+7=155, +8=166,+9=218

I'm with Carl, I think you're pretty safe waiting for +9.

I suspect there are a couple of explanations for what happened.

• This was a wonky strip or test. When I get a "surprise" of the very low or very high kind, I re-test immediately. I don't use the same drop of blood. I poke again.
• The test was accurate and the low number was a carry over from the depot being a little too full and not having had the time to catch up with your current dose.
• The numbers zoomed because you fed a whopping amount of HC. When Gabby drops into low numbers, I use either honey or corn syrup to steer the cycle. When she's in the 20s or 30s, I've used about 3 drops of corn syrup on top of about a teaspoon of her usual low carb food. When she's still needing a bump in her numbers, I use about 2 drops.

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29, 30min.=154

What do you mean a ringer? What's that?

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29,+7=155, +8=166

hi jenny. looks like emmy has been keeping you busy. you're handling her like a pro!

i want to apologize in advance. i'm about to offer some thoughts and ask some questions, but i'm at work and can't stay online to follow up... not something i like to do.

--- what time zone are you in and what time is emmy's next shot due?

--- imho, a drop into the 20s is a mandatory reduction. it's hard to give a dose much lower than 0.13 unit.

--- although there's not much data to draw from, i find it very, very interesting that when emmy was dosed 2u SID she threw double digits some seventeen hours after the shot. this is a sign she was over dose back then. oftentimes when a cat has been overdosed it somehow kicks the pancreas back into action. we've seen it happen on several occasions.

--- i believe the higher numbers we're seeing on emmy's spreadsheet are the result of her drops into low numbers.



if emmy were my cat i would seriously consider withholding insulin for the next few days. her numbers will look ugly while she's clearing the bounce. ignore them. remember, too much insulin can cause high numbers... sometimes caused by drops into low numbers (like we're seeing with emmy)... sometimes too much insulin will result in high flat numbers. when kitties are at a higher dose, we pretty much ignore these things, but when kitty is down to micro-doses we tend to take a hard look at what *could be* going on.

i have a feeling the removal of dry food in her diet combined with too much insulin is causing her to dive and bounce, but the only way to stop the process in order to figure out if that is what's happening is to remove insulin from the equation... even if it's a temporary measure. it can take a kitty 3 days or more to clear a bounce. that's why i want to warn you the initial numbers you see probably won't be pretty. if you can hang in there while the counterregulatory hormones clear... i think emmy will settle into normal numbers.

if you decide to withhold insulin, you'll want to feed normally and then test about 4 hours later to see if she's brought herself down.
i'll try to get back here before your shot time to see what you've decided.


for anyone following along...
withholding insulin is not something we normally suggest. this suggestion is based solely on emmy's history/data.
it's a recommendation for this particular cat only... based on her data and my experience in seeing this kind of reaction in some cats given similar circumstances.

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29,+7=155, +8=166,+9=218

If i try this will you guys still check on me and let me know if I should put her back on insulin, cause low numbers are scary but so are high ones.....I'll carefully document her feedings and such.

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29,+7=155, +8=166,+9=218

Oh, heck yeah, we'll check on you! Lots of us have been following along all afternoon. ;-) No worries there, Jenny.

Carl

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29,+7=155, +8=166,+9=218

reducing further is certainly a viable option. if you're more comfortable reducing, continue to monitor carefully because she could drop low again.

yes, you could also skip a dose if you'd like, but again, monitor carefully if you resume insulin because she could dive.


jenny, you hold the syringe. any and all decisions are for you to make.
i just wanted to present an option that others probably would not have suggested. an option i would take with my own cat given the same circumstances.

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29,+7=155, +8=166,+9=218

absolutely!

you can bet we'll be watching very closely...

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29,+7=155, +8=166,+9=218

o.k. is testing with high number gonna be different than with the low ones?
Like Nadiar is important with the low numbers, are there different numbers that are more important to watch when having high numbers???

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29,+7=155, +8=166,+9=218

Jenny,
To add something to what Jill posted above -

When not giving insulin, what you'll want to do is base the test times around when Emmy eats. You won't be so much concerned with "preshots" and "nadirs" because she won't be getting shots, so there won't be a real nadir either.

Test her just before breakfast, feed her, and then about 4 hours later, test her again. The hope is that you'll see pretty flat numbers. By 4 hours after breakfast, her BG will have gone up from eating, and then hopefully back down because her pancreas will be doing the job of supplying her body with insulin.

Does she eat just twice a day now? One thing you can try is to feed her the same amount daily, but break it down into smaller portions, and feed like 4 times a day. That will space out the "boost" from eating on her system, and give her a good chance of fighting back that boost in BG on her own. As long as you can test her BG 3 to 4 hours after each feeding, you'll be collecting great data to see how she's doing.

Like Jill said, your numbers at first might look crazy, because there's still the depot of insulin that has built up present in her system, and if these low numbers cause a bounce tonight, it might take 2 or 3 days for that bounce to clear her system.

Carl

edit to add - don't assume "high numbers". Once the bounce clears, you'll hopefully be seeing nice low numbers consistently. But they'll be safe low numbers because her pancreas won't produce more insulin that she needs to keep her numbers in the "normal range".

Oh, and you have ketone test sticks, right? If you are not giving any insulin, you should try to get a ketone test daily.

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29,+7=155, +8=166,+9=218

4 sm meals got it thanks Carl

No I don't have ketone test thingys, where can you get them? and how do you do that?
googled it I'll try to get some tommorrow to bad You could buy this kind of tester lol:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=caf_1236 ... comments=1

 

Re: 01/16/13 EMMY AMPS=238, +6=29,+7=155, +8=166,+9=218

PMPS=328 ugly already but I did feed her HC crunchies. and from what I understand the wet food metabalizes faster and the dry more
slower.

 

Should I mix in a few of those freeze dried chicken treats in her food, they are 0 carbs aren't they????
She ate almost 25g of her food plus 1 sugar cube sized freeze dried chicken treats( I cut the dog ones up)

I'll pull the two bites she left and test her at
+3 (9PM)

 

it's not necessary. freeze dried chicken treats are supposed to be low carb, but they'll oftentimes bump alex's numbers up by 40 - 50 points. it depends on how sensitive kitty is to carbs.



carl, thank you for posting info about testing for ketones and feeding!

 

Opps next time no chicken treats.

Man oh man how many mistakes am I gonna make

 

i'm sorry. i gave you the wrong impression. freeze dried chicken can spike BG numbers in some cats... not all. it depends how carb sensitive the individual cat is.

you're doing great!!!

 

Believe or not, that's a fairly common question here ;-) You're still way behind me! :lol:

Carl

 

PMPS=328
+3=319 and fed her again

 

And no shot, right?
This is the "bounce" we expected after today's excitement. Now the hard part is having to wear the "patience pants" until the bounce clears.
Carl

 

No Shot, please help me to be patient, I'm not skilled in that lol

 

Jenny,
I don't hand these out to just anybody....

Welcome to the Brother and Sisterhood of the Traveling Patience Pants!

Carl

 

Carl, you made me laugh, that's halarious, thank you very much. Too Awesome.

 

Then it worked!

Seriously, I think "humor" is one of the most potent "meds" in the battle vs. Feline Diabetes. It's really easy to get caught up in the minute details, and really easy to worry yourself sick over each number, each cycle, each day. "Big picture" matters more. The only number that makes you go and is the shocking one like 29. The rest of them, not so scary.

You won't find a better place, or a better group of people, to help you and Emmy get through this dance.

Carl

 

Hi Jenny and Emmy what a day you two have had now to wait and see what Miss Emmy does for you over the next couple of days :thumbup cat_pet_icon

 

Is this correct?

Looking at the Guaranteed Analysis (GA) on the label, add up the values for protein, moisture, fat, fiber, and ash (if listed - sometimes it is not). Then subtract those values from 100 - the difference is the wet matter carbs. So, if we have a food with 78% moisture, 11% protein, 5% fat, 2% fiber and 1.5% Ash, the calculation would look like this:

78.00 + 11.00 + 5.00 + 2.00 + 1.50 = 97.50 Subtract that from 100, and the remainder, 2.50, is the WET matter carbs.

However, when comparing the carbohydrate contents of any food, it must be done on a dry matter basis, even with dry food, as dry does contain some small amount of moisture. So, looking at the Guaranteed Analysis on the label once again, subtract the moisture content from 100 - in this case, the difference is 22. Then divide your wet matter carbs by this number. So...

2.50 divided by 22. = 11% carbs on a dry matter basis.

If this is correct what I'm feeding her now is 30% carbs Whiskas trays:Moisture 82%,Protien 8%,Fat 3.5%, Fiber 1%
as apposed to Fancy feast classic chicken pate which if I did it right 6% carbs FF: Protien 11%,Fat 5%, Fiber 1.5%, moisture 78%, Ash3%,Taurine .05%

If this is right and I calculated right that's a big difference.
I'll wear my patient pants for now but wondering if I should switch food to help her along.
I'll wait for imput and continue status quo till morning

 

On Dr. Peirson's site, catinfo.org, she has a food chart that was updated in Sept. It shows, if I remember right, the FF chicken at 4%. Earlier today, I exchanged messages with Sienne and we both looked up the Whiska flavors you mentioned, but we couldn't find them on Dr. P.'s charts, or anywhere else. It could be that Whiskas didn't answer her inquiries for the data she used to put her charts together.
I'm not sure about the formulas you used but if she got 4% for the FF, and you got 6%, there must be a discrepancy somewhere?

I think I'd go with the FF classic chicken since no matter which formula, it looks like it's lower?

Hopefully, someone else has figures for the Whiska flavors?
I can't link you directly to her charts on my tablet, but the link to them is on this page -
http://www.catinfo.org/?link=cannedfoods#Commercial_Food
Carl

 

+6=293

we are slowly climbing down woot, woot and I will get some Fancy Feast tomorrow

 

+9=236

So it's 3AM....aaarrrggg what I won't do for my cat....lol there are defiantly people I wouldn't get up at this hour for :lol:

She won't eat, so I guess she is full, there is 3 more hours till her AMPS I'm sure she won't starve till then but, that will surely bring her BG down even further yayaya. So, see you on tomorrows condo