3/4 Alex PMPS 309,+3~269,+5.5~244

Oh Alex, Alex , Alex! What is with these UGLY morning PS numbers ????? ohmygod_smile
He's faster than a speeding bullet....
He's able to leap tall counters in a single bound...
He can eat 2 bowls of turkey and giblets before I can blink my eyes
All P's are in order (Right now he's trying to gnaw his way through a trash
bag to see if there's any food in an empty can and runs when I get up to look=playful)

He can do all that but he can't get an AM number to make his mommy happy???? :roll:

Morning LL have a swell day

yesterday

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448

Yes it does, Hillary....I didn't remember how we did it on the old board anymore,
I'm getting loopy :shock:

Thank you :razz:

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448

dang... I had a feeling he was gonna lose it. Well he's starving from that number so it's ok if he has a little extra this cycle, maybe a couple oz .. no worries, this is Liver Training School, so tell him he has to pay attention in class. Also I want to see low yellow and maybe high blue today, make sure he knows that. Maybe he'll listen LOL

One thing to remember when you see these horrifying numbers is that it's rebound. I call them fake numbers. They are real of course, but often quite temporary. That's how you get those 250pt drops in 3 hours.. the numbers just sort of evaporate because they are liver response, not actual failed insulin.

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448

Also.. 2-3 spot checks this cycle. Don't bother with anything before +3-4. One more around nadir-ish and a one +10-12. You choose, but the further away from AMPS, the better. You don't want to depress yourself with consecutive RED.

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448

This is not the season for RED....gee Alex... :-|

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448

Morning Carolyn,
I know you'll get the yellow for sure. Actually, I think the blue as well...unfortunately I'm not sure it will be high blue. Alex is a go-getter
Does any of all this have to do with his snack schedule? He ate 2 hours ago and he's lying next to me kind of whining (well I guess he's really talking to me or yelling at me depending on how you look at it but it's cute,albeit annoying..for food). I guess it must have some effect but not sure how really?

I think we have to dance soon. (I discovered recently that if I pick him up and sing "My Guy" to him and dance, it really calms him down. who knew)? lol

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448

Tell me about it :lol:
and you thought he'd be off of 5U pretty fast!Or did you mean up to 5.25 lol :lol:

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448

You're so right, Pat! It's St. Pat's Day soon so it's getting to be the season for GREEN :mrgreen:
I'd be happy with yellow and blue for now (which when mixed together= :mrgreen: )
:razz:

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448

I doubt the food has a lot to do with it, but try not to feed within two hours of a PS. Don't wanna shoot fake numbers. Honestly I don't think RED is the result of breffis alone, so don't put too much emphasis on food with that number. We already know he's eating "too much" but we HAVE to feed him with his thyroid issue, so we do not have any alternative but to treat the side effects of that. We're gonna try something if I'm home and we catch numbers. I'm just waiting to see it. I plan to try a lil idea I have to slow those drops a smidge. It's gonna call for some craziness on our parts but my plan is to intervene in high drops. So if you were to test at +4 and note a 200pt drop, you would feed 1 tsp MC. +4 is long before nadir, so we know he's gonna drop more, and my idea (it might be a dumb one) is to try and cushion those drops a little bit. We'll learn fast if we need to tweak or dump the plan but we gotta calm these drops a little bit. And if no green before tomorrow morning, dosecrease.

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448

What is MC because I need to buy it and I'm going to Target before +4 (it's just down the street)
I'm just getting the hang of this so I don't have to understand it all, I'll just do it :lol:

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448

Check Janet and Binky's charts and get anything 14%, which is usually Friskies in gravy if I remember correctly.

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448

yeah tender cuts turkey and liver in gravy and sliced beef with gravy are 14%
eta: i have one can of friskies beef with gravy..i had been using the gravy as hc

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448

That's ok, for HC use FF.. is it roasted or grilled in gravy? I think it's grilled. That's 18%.

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448

okie dokie..
Alex's +4 is 289 should I give him lc snack..he's hungry!

got blood work results will get copy tomorrow
thyroid went from 4.2 to 7.4 or 7.6 raising dose from 5mg to 7.5 mg a day starting tomorrow
his kidney values are still a little high and so are liver values but not a lot

nothing else abnormal

I discussed the bladder/kidney stone thing with him and he said:
I have a cat who has diabetes(meaning Alex), hyper-t, heart murmur, possible kidney stone and/or IC, slight elevated liver values and the only way to know for sure where the blood in his urine is coming from is to do surgery to remove the kidney stone and we're not doing that. No one would do that it's too dangerous. Jackson has the exact same thing except for the diabetes so it's probably genetic. I understand that giving him bupe may bring his bg down for a few days but once it's stopped it'll go right back up I'd think. I would be willing to give him pulse therapy with the bupe but that wouldn't cure the problem.
I have a headache ohmygod_smile

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448,+4~289

no bupe isn't a cure - it's a drug that will alleviate pain. So, without knowing for sure if Alex is in pain, you have nothing to lose by trying bupe for a 2-3 days and seeing if that changes anything (improves behavior, etc).

Upping the tap, may also improve behavior as it will get the thryoid back in check and maybe make the hungies go away.

Aside from letting the stone pass on it's own, surgery is an option - however, like you - it needs to be a darn good reason - i won't do that to my cats and can't expect you to do same - that is, unless the cat is in distress and pain.

Will the vet give you bupe to try?

we talked about this before and I really think there is something to the raw food diet that will help with many a cat issue. While you don't have to make your own (I did it last weekend with friends - and it's very labor intensive), you can start off buying raw food, just to see if they like it and if you notice any positive changes as a result. I still use canned foods, but if possible, going to try to give more raw than canned.

Price wise - raw food may seem higher than canned, but ounce for ounce, quality, etc - it can be more reasonable than canned.

Something to kick around and think about - there are several raw foods commercially available.....

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448,+4~289

The stone won't pass, it's a kidney stone...not a bladder stone He said he's give it a try to see if he's in pain but wants to know if that is the purpose of it. Seeing if he's in pain? Because it can't be used long term.

Raw food, haven't really thought about it yet because between Alex and my mother it's on the list but I can't do it yet.

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448,+4~289

ok kidney not bladder stone - understand - so how does one normally pass a kidney stone - or is surgery the only option? I'm talking in general, not specifics.

As people can get this too

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448,+4~289

People can pass them..not so sure about cats
my brother and sis-in-law both had them
both had to go into hospital
they had to be given something to break them up and ultra sound too I think
very painful

ETA:
How kidney stones may be treated:
Some kidney stones pass out of the body without any intervention by a physician. In cases that cause lasting symptoms or other complications, kidney stones may be treated by various techniques, depending upon your physician's recommendation, your medical profile, and the severity of the condition. The following treatments may be considered:

* shock waves - extracorporeal shock wave lithotripsy (ESWL) - use of a machine to send shock waves directly to the kidney stone to break a large stone into smaller stones that will pass through the urinary system with your urine. There are two types of shock wave machines: with one machine, the patient sits in a tub of water, with the other, the patient lies on a table.

* tunnel surgery - percutaneous nephrolithotomy - a small cut is made in the patient's back and a narrow tunnel is made through the skin to the stone inside the kidney. A special instrument goes through this tunnel allowing the doctor to locate and remove the stone.

* ureteroscope - a long wire with a camera attached to it is inserted it into the patient's urethra and passed up through the bladder to the ureter where the stone is located. A cage is used to retrieve the stone and remove it from the body.

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448

yes, a yummy snack, would be very good and make him happy, sorry I was cleaning. bleh.

Ok I hope this will help his appetite a little bit, might want to verify that dose on Health and see what doses other tapazole kitties are getting at that range.. just in case.

from my reading, there's two different kinds of stones, and one can be alleviated by diet. ?
bupe *may well* bring his bg down if he is in pain.. and if he's in pain, it's a good thing to give to him. like i said, best way to find out if he's in pain is a couple doses of bupe. little teeny doses, like .1 mL .. you do not want him dazed and confused

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448

okay..so the purpose of the bupe is to find out IF he is in pain? kitties aren't supposed to stay on it every day? This is what I'm trying to figure out too. (Jaime has to order it anyway. he doesn't keep it in stock and he is off today. he went in to check on Alex's blood and stuff in general.)

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448,+4~289

Bup is a human drug. He can get it at the pharmacy. He *might* be able to write you a script for it to pick up yourself except that:
1. it's sold in ampules and is difficult to draw up, dose and store. I can teach you how if he wants to go that route.
2. buprenex is a controlled substance, depending on your state laws, he may or may not be able to prescribe it for Alex

http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/buprenorphine-buprenex/page1.aspx

And yes, that's how you find out if a cat is in pain. Dose and monitor. If you dose him, and things change for the better, he's in pain. If you had a stone there, you'd probably be in pain, so it's likely he is, particularly since blood is present. If he is in pain, we will deal with that after your test. I dose bup fairly regularly with Leo but not every day. We can ask around and find out some recommendations about chronic pain relief if it comes to that.

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448,+4~289

Oh okay, now I git it....
I'm not sure, and I can't reach him anymore today(he's at a doc appointment and has some personal issues so best to wait until tomorrow), but i will read the link. I looked up some old buprenex stuff in the search box and think I saw someone who moved to NJ having trouble getting it from her vet. I think he was planning on just getting it and dispensing it to me last time we spoke about it a month or so ago. I'll talk to him later or tomorrow.

"test" meaning ..give it to him and see what happens?

Can we try it on me too? it sounds great! haha_smiley just kidding!

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448,+4~289

I just read in side effects that it shouldn't be given to animals that have kidney, liver or cardiovascular disease? Alex has the heart murmur and elevated kidney and liver levels...does that count?

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448,+4~289,+6~274

What a weird day today..number wise. I hope you didn't want low yellow in this cycle..
it doesn't look like Alex is going to get there

Now I really am going to Target

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448,+4~289,+6~274

Not really. Leo has 2 of the 3 (liver and heart) and he does just fine, in fact we dosed quite a bit of bup during his bout with hepatitis. I think they are referring to chronic use. Also Bup is not "approved" for use in cats so they may not even be referring to them. The thing I like most about bup aside from its obvious pain relieving quality, is that it works very fast, it does not need to, nor does it, build up in the system, and unless you give too much, there are no apparent side effects at minimal doses. That makes it great for test run of pain reliever. Give too much and you get a loopy and/or sleeping cat tho.

:dizcat

And I like the yeller.. keeps him from bouncing. I hope he just hangs out drifting all day.

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448,+4~289,+6~274

You mean as opposed to RISING...me too
as Kathy would say..NO PINKUS SCHMINKUS!!!!
Now I really AM going to Target..I have to figure out my "wee wee" pad dilemma

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448,+4~289,+6~274

ok have fun at target.. as a heads-up, i have poker tonight so shoot your same dose, and pick 2 times to get spot checks, unless you shoot him in the blue, then test +1 and +3 at least. I probably won't be home before 1 or 2am est so have fun tonight if I don't see you before I leave

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448,+4~289,+6~274

Okay got it

have fun at poker!!!
but question, you said this before:

am I supposed to do anything?

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448,+4~289,+6~274

Nothing tonight, just 1/4u dosecrease in the morning if he doesn't hit green tonight

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448,+4~289,+6~274

5.25 if he doesn't hit green because you sometimes have to go up to go down

I went shopping and forgot my canned food list but I thought I remembered
I started doing what Jill once told me to to, marking the cans with the number of carbs
I'm covered on MC's
I remembered one of the ff HC's.... grilled beef feast 18 carbs
But I'm holding 3 cans of ff liver & chicken feast in gravy grilled and it's not on the list
It's classic so it must be old(duh) and I guess I can label it HC it's grilled and got wheat gluten as 3rd ingredient.
Oh I need a nap ohmygod_smile

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448,+4~289,+6~274

Yep but don't increase til morning. And yes, go up to go down

Have a great nap!

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448,+4~289,+6~274

yes just label as HC - doesn't matter the exact number - if it's grilled, marinated or says with gravy - it always has gravy and is high carb -

did you get any lc flavors? - those are typically the pate style - and would say classic I believe now - and be ones like turkey/giblets feast, beef feast, chicken feast, === something feast typically.....


Try the bupe, see if it helps Alex - if he seems better and gets lower BG's then the test means - he's in some kind of pain - and thanks for the lesson on kidney stones - it sounds horrible...and I have to ask - is it possible to do the shock waves on a cat? I can't imagine a cat willingly sitting in water!

Seriously though, is it a possibility? and no I don't think your vet has the equipment to do it, but wondering if a specialty place would (assuming it can be done).

Wouldn't that be fun, get doped up on bupe! That should make a pleasant evening. Yeh talk with him and see if he can get it and just give you a couple syringes - From what I've heard, I believe it's administered orally and you wipe it on the gums.

Ask on health - plenty use it and can tell you how to administer and I also heard very tiny amount like .1 but .1 what I don't know. Usually the vet prepares the "doses" and gives - but in your case, he may just give you the supply....so find out and you'll probably also need different syringes (which I'm sure vet has).

Maui is getting her dental tomorrow - and I may learn first hand about bupe then - hopefully it will be a simple cleaning and I won't need to learn and Sydney is going to - for a consult to determine how we can get this tooth addressed and still protect her kidneys. Oh I will have a fun day tomorrow -- not --- going to do my best not to dwell on it or think about it tomorrow, unless they are good, happy dental thoughts. :smile:

 

Re: 3/4 Alex AMPS 448,+4~289,+6~274

Noooo, you can't do that test to a cat

I spoke to Jaime, he has it in stock..he thinks he ordered it last time we were discussing it and I think Carolyn had mentioned a dose above

we will tawk tomorrow ..

re:ff i had the lc it was the others I didn't know about lol

later gator Grey's Anatomy and Private Practice tonight YAY!!!!


ETA: GOOD LUCK TO MAUI tomorrow..she will be fine :mrgreen:

 

Re: 3/4 Alex PMPS 309,+3~269

Did I say that?? :mrgreen:

In this case, I meant no RED SCHMED! Really, I think this is a good day, compared with where Alex was.

I think Carolyn's idea is pretty clever! Cushion the drops and get Alex's liver's attention. Don't you think that sounds like an episode of Grey's Anatomy? "Getting Alex's Liver's Attention." I like it.

Obviously, my head hurts too, after absorbing all of this!

 

Re: 3/4 Alex PMPS 309,+3~269

Yes it does sound like Grey's Anatomy! Maybe and episode where Alex has been drinking too much ;-) I mean after the whole Izzy thing...
But I already told you about that...poor Alex