3/04 KiKi AMPS 432 PMPS 405

Well today is a new day. I have decided to skip KiKi's AM shot until I can talk to my vet. 1) To see what his demeanor is withOUT it (based on my observations of him after he has HAD the shot -- basically, I want to see if he gets lethargic without it) 2) My gut feeling tells me the insulin has something to do with it - the onset of the problems just seem to begin in relation to the timing of the shot. And since it seems to be getting progressively more severe -- I want to see how he does without the shot once.
I have gone ahead and fed him - he ate about 1/2 can FF. He is sleeping right now, but so far is responsive and alert when I get near him (this is definately an improvement from before)
I want to just say Thanks to everyone for your input, advice, get well wishes, hugz. etc....

 

Re: 3/04 KiKi +11 298 AMPS 432

((((((Donna)))))) I just finished reading all that went on last night. I hope you are doing okay and Kiki gets better for you. Please make sure to test for ketones today since you did not give him any insulin. Poor baby......I hope you figure out what is going on. If you truely think that there is some correlation to the Lantus and Kiki then you have to go with your gut. You are the one who has been with him all this time and you are the one who can see him.

I am sending tons and tons of healing vines to you and KiKi. Take care of your self too okay? cat_pet_icon

 

Re: 3/04 KiKi +11 298 AMPS 432

Just talked to my vets partner (my vet is out today :sad: ) He said go ahead and skip the shots for today and see how he reacts.
And if things aren't any better than they yesterday -- to give them a call back. He looked at his charts and didn't see anything that raised any suspicion.
6am - 298
(food)
7am - 432 (regular AMPS)
8am - 413

 

Re: 3/04 KiKi +11 298 AMPS 432

((Donna)) I hope you get some answers from your vet. I'll be thinking about you and Kiki.

 

Re: 3/04 KiKi +11 298 AMPS 432

Oh my! I just read your condo from yesterday. You must be pretty drained today. I hope you get a resolution very soon. Sending lots of healing vines.

 

Re: 3/04 KiKi +11 298 AMPS 432

Hi Donna,
I am glad to see your post. I was also wondering last night if the insulin had something to do with it, but I have been around quite a long time and have never seen a cat do this on Lantus or really any other insulin. Unless that insulin was somehow tainted, I can't understand the response. Your meter testing showed the meters were working and a cat hypoing can not reach 400 in a matter of minutes. If it were lantus, she would have had to have been overdosed for quite some time, in my humble opinion. Please consider a blood workup and physical exam with Kiki. I know Friskies has been having some problems lately and I am concerned about possible renal issues, I myself and several others on the board have had big problems with a few of their flavors. Her behavior suggests diet has something to do with it, whatever that may be, as she is alert only just having eaten. It truly could be anything and I've got lantus about 10th on my list.

((((hugss)))) I can't imagine how scary this is for you right now and I'm sending lots of love and healing thoughts,
..C

 

Re: 3/04 KiKi +11 298 AMPS 432

Hi Donna, I hope today will be much better. ((((Donna))))

I'm just re-posting the link Cheryl/Winnie left for you last night, in case you didn't see it: http://www.petplace.com/cats/lethargy-i ... page1.aspx There are so many things this could be. I would try to get him in today for at least bloodwork and to maybe check his heart. There is a list on this link of some conditions and diagnostics. It's much easier to deal with this in daylight than at 1am!

I notice that anemia is at the top of the list on this link, and that popped into my head last night just because my mom dealt with severe anemia recently and her symptoms sounded similar. However, it really could be about anything.

 

Re: 3/04 KiKi +11 298 AMPS 432

Anemia is what I was thinking as well!
I know from experience being on medication for a year, and it destroyed/attacked my RBC and WBC to the point where I was out of breath, exhausted, and sleepy, almost 24hours a day. I had to force myself to be sure to eat, and it was a horrible effort.
I did not, but many others needed helper drugs just to counteract the sides.

For that reason, I think bloodwork is an excellent idea, and soon.

 

Re: 3/04 KiKi +11 298 AMPS 432

good morning, donna. glad you've been in touch with your vet this morning. like the others have said, this could be anything. i've never heard of any kitties who have had a reaction to lantus like what you've described. that's not to say it can't happen, but bad lantus is on the bottom of a long list of conditions one would normally suspect. i know bloodwork was done recently, but things can change quickly with our precious fur babies. having bloodwork done asap sounds like a real good place to start. please continue to check for ketones...

(((hugs)))

 

Re: 3/04 KiKi +11 298 AMPS 432

Libby - thanks for the link. I guess that's whats so overwhelming about this. Its really heart breaking to have to decide whether this is something I can afford to do being layed off for the past 2.5 months. I've already charged way more money than I probably should have.
But could I live with myself with the choices I would presumably have to make.

He definately is more alert and responsive today than the last 2 days. I checked for Ketones this AM (negative).
Is iteven remotely possible that the insulin dosage was started to high? that the correct dosage was passed-by from the start? with all the insulin overlaps and KiKi's own body throwing glucose into his blood to try and regulate itself? When I look at the SS -- the only time I got the green numbers was around the .75 dosage usage. I don't know -- maybe I'm just grasping at air.

The vet last nite checked his heart and didnt notice anything unusual. Said he was not dehydrated -- I am trying to make sure he keeps drinking and eatting and peeing also. I also thought about the food, but all three civvies eat the same thing now -- and they are all acting their usual selves.

I have to leave for the next 2 hours -- I will check BG and see how he's feeling -- and post here. I will probably be calling the vet anyhow when I get home later today.
Please pray for KiKi?

 

Re: 3/04 KiKi +11 298 AMPS 432

With the food, all of your kitties may be eating it and are fine, but they also don't have diabetes.
Each cat is different, and food can make a difference for some cats.
My civvie eats only dry food, and she is fine but if Shadoe eats dry, her numbers show it.

I still think that blood work is good way to look for problems.

I hope kiki feels better soon.

 

Re: 3/04 KiKi +11 298 AMPS 432

Hi Donna,
I understand your concerns, and of course we will pray for Kiki. I am glad to hear he is more alert today, that is positive. I am very concerned about the lack of insulin, however. Looking at the numbers you are getting today, it would appear he may still need insulin. This is very important. If he does not drop like a stone today, and by that I mean straight into the 100s, you are going to have to restart his insulin. Here's why: If he is sick, not giving him insulin can cause him to develop ketones so fast that you may not be able to intervene. Keep in mind that the urine you are testing is several hours old, so ketones in the urine can also be several hours old. If you see even trace developing, you've got to intervene. Please reconsider this stopping of insulin, if he has an infection somewhere, lack of insulin could make his situation much worse.

It *is* possible that the insulin was too high a dose, but I do not understand if that is the case, why his numbers have not dropped today. If it is overdose, at the very least, maybe you can restart him on 1/2u tonight? Yes if he was at 1u Vetsulin, 1u Lantus may be too much, and that is something we can certainly look in to. His numbers do not *clearly* reflect overdose, though it is possible.

Do you have a vial or cartridges? If you have cartridges, and are concerned it's the insulin, you can open another cartridge.

 

Re: 3/04 KiKi +11 298 AMPS 432, +7 436

I just returned home....happy to see KiKi sitting on the bed. BG is 436 He drank some water and then i mixed a bit of water with some canned food and he even lapped some of that up. Walked around the house once and now is laying back down sleeping. I called the vet -- he is out at the moment, but when he gets back he is going to call me.
I have the pen cartridges....I would feel comfortable trying a new cartridge (I thought of that as well)..... as well as starting from the bottom with dosing. We'll see what the vet has to say .. I will let you know

Or possibly even going back to the Vetsulin and doing the 1.75 we initially gave him when he was first diagnosed? Looking back at my Vetsulin SS 1.75 seemed to work really well -- its too bad I didnt actually DO that when his BG flared up. Looking at the dosing ... I think 1.75 looks like it SHOULD have worked. I bought this vial 7-31-09 and OTJ in September '09 so it did not get much use. Expiration 9/10

 

Re: 3/04 KiKi +11 298 AMPS 432

Hi Donna. I hope KiKi is feeling better today.

 

Re: 3/04 KiKi +11 298 AMPS 432

Once that vial or cartridge has been opened and used, even just once, it is no longer good till that expiry date on the packaging.

I have cartridges that have a 2011 expiry date, but once I crack open a cartidge and start using it, it's good for about a month or so.
I doubt very much that something opened and partially used in 2009 is still usable.

I sure can't comment on what dose to use, but I can say that starting a new cartridge, fresh, and starting at a low dose would likely be better than going back to Vetsulin.

See what the others have to say, but it sounds like kiki needs to be getting some insulin because ketones are quite serious.

 

Re: 3/04 KiKi +11 298 AMPS 432

Have an appointment for 9:30 tomorrow morning.
I fed him a little FF (watered down) he is bathing himself now (had not done that in a few days)

Gayle - you r right i should prolly throw the vetsulin out

 

Re: 3/04 KiKi +11 298 AMPS 432

Great to hear you've got carts.. go ahead and try a new one tonight. Just to make sure you are not reusing syringes or reinjecting into the cartridges right? Either one of those can cause the Lantus to fail. Also great to hear he's up and about and bathing!

Definitely pitch the vetsulin, the manufacturing problems caused fluctuating efficacy and using that could wreak havoc.

(((hugs)))
..C

 

Re: 3/04 KiKi +11 298 AMPS 432

Finally -- my little boy is starting to act like himself again.
I think I am going to hold off on restarting the insulin until after the vet visit tomorrow AM.
It just feels like the right thing to do -- and I am more comfortable with restarting during daylight hours -- with .5 units if vet agrees.

syringe - no
reinject - I suppose its possible :shock:

Its been a long and exhausting 2 days. Hopefully KiKi and I can BOTH get a good nites sleep and start fresh in the morning.

 

Re: 3/04 KiKi +11 298 AMPS 432

Hi Donna

I'm sorry to hear all this is happening, I pray vet visit will give you answers for Kiki


in the meantime, please do try for an evening ketones check since there is no insulin today.

Also, just a little correction to avoid confusion, cuz there is no insulin, your AMPS is actually AMBG in your subject line

best of luck to you both tomorrow, :YMHUG: :YMHUG:

 

Re: 3/04 KiKi +11 298 AMPS 432

that makes sense