3.2 Magnolia Dental, +3 206

Yesterday's Condo

WCR: She was so hungry this morning! She slid down the stairs while she was frantically trying to inform me that her food bowl was empty. I didn't get a AMPS number because I wasn't giving her shot and I couldn't give her a treat afterwards. The only reason she tolerates my incessant poking is because of those treats. They will check her BG before, during and after the procedure.

I made sure they will NOT use metacam. They will call me during the procedure to let me know what they have to do and I should be about to pick her up around 5pm. What a long day of waiting. I'm going to get a room set up for her. I'm torn about bringing her LB upstairs. It is in the basement and we'll be hanging out upstairs...so that's 2 long flights of stairs to get to the LB. But I don't want to confuse her or make her think it's ok to pee upstairs.

I got a copy of the pre-dental bloodwork. Carolyn had asked specifically about BUN, phosphorus, potassium and calcium in this thread. I found BUN, but can't find those other values on the paper, I bet they are called something else. So...below are all of the values.

Hematology
WBC 6.52 mm-3 4.5-19.5
RBC 7.41 10-6/uL 5.5-9.9
2+ aniso
HGB 12.1 g/dL 8.0-14.0
HCT 37.9 % 24.0-45.0
MCV 51.1 fL 39-55
MCH 16.3 pg 12.5-17.5
MCHC 31.9 g/dL 30-36
RDW 21.30 % 17-22
Platelets 290 10-3/uL 105-500
clumps
Neutrophils % 59.3 % 35-75
Netrophils 3.860 mm-3 1.9-14.6
Lymphocytes % 29.4 % 20-55
Lymphocytes 1.920 mm-3 1.1-19.7
Monocytes % 7.26H % 1-5
Monocytes .473 /mm-3 .5-.8
EOS% 3.5 % 2-12
Basophils% .56 % 0-1
Basophils .037 /mm-3 0-0.400

Chemistry
SGPT (ALT) 84 H U/L 0-80
ALK Phosphatase 22.1 U/L 0-60
Creatine 2.4 mg/dL .6-2.0
Glucose 279.3 mg/dL 70-160
BUN 31.5 mg/dL 10-35
Total Protein 7.36 g/dL 6.0-7.8
BUN Crea Rataio 13.1 Ratio

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental today and bloodwork results

Regarding Metacam, just say you do not want to use it. Regarding the lab values, you need to also post the lab's normal ranges to aide in someone interpreting the values.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental today and bloodwork results

Sending Good Dental Vibes to Magnolia today! Moonie has had 2 dentals in the past 2 years & was fine the next day- First one she came home and ate like a piggy!-We did get buprenex for pain the last time(she had 5 teeth out the 1st time & 4 teeth out the second time)
Not to worry!
It's worse for us than it is for them, as they are ,after all, sedated...Hope it goes totally smoothly...
Please Update when you hear anything OK??

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental today and bloodwork results

Hope it goes really well today, Magnolia, and that you are all sparkle-toothed very soon.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental today and bloodwork results

Sending good dental vines, to Magnolia, today.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental today and bloodwork results

Thanks Larry, I updated it. Shows you how much I know about sciencey things.

And thank you Lydia and Roni and Dyana. I will certainly update when I have one. I hope she does well with it. I am guessing she will need 4 extractions but I hope it's less. I am the one who needs to be sedated. Just a little bit. I am a ball of nerves. There is a big martini in my future...after she gets home and settled of course.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental today and bloodwork results

Hi Sara

It looks like her blood chemistry test was a basic "organ profile" and doesn't have phos, potassium, or Ca; those are all electrolytes.

Best of luck to Magnolia today!

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental today and bloodwork results

Good luck to Magnolia today.

What a CUTE photo!!!! :mrgreen:

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental today and bloodwork results

The vet called. Magnolia is doing fine so far. Her teeth are all clean now. The 2 probable lesions (planned crown amputations) and 2 probable extractions turned into 4 lesions that all still have very stable roots according to the x-rays, so she is going to do 4 surgical extractions. She said she'll call when she's done. Why do I feel like I'm going to puke?

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental today and bloodwork results

Thanks for well wishes all! And for the info Jess. We are going to do follow up blood work in the next month, so I can make sure they test for those values next time.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental today, bloodwork results +update

Oh I hope it is going well. How brave you two are!
Though Latte and I would respect any decion you made about the metacam, we are also very grateful you were open to the information and able to use it to make the best decision for Magnolia.

I would definitely follow up with labs at some point. You could just ask for a kidney panel and maybe a urinalysis. It will give a bigger picture of what is going on, especially since the BUN was not really elevated. Do you feed a high protein diet?

Sending good wishes for a happy, healthy magnolia...and a non stressed bean.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental today, bloodwork results +update

All done and all's well. They were waking her up. The vet asked me if I could come get her sooner rather than later. :lol: I guess she is being quite impolite to everyone. This is new behavior for her, she's never been growly and mean at the vet before.

Her BG was 250 before and 350 after the procedure. The other reason the vet wants me to pick her up early is so I can get her home where she is happier, give her some insulin and feed her. She advised me to give her regular dose at 3pm (5.5 hours late) and then skip tonights dose and go back to normal schedule tomorrow. Any thoughts on this? I suggested giving a reduced dose now, then her regular dose tonight, but she didn't like that idea.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental update & Dose question

Sara, I don't know anything about Magnolia's background and BG issues, but I'll just tell you some general things I picked up at Kitty's dental and other anesthesia: Beware the "nom nom" effect, where anesthesia tends to "eat up" the BG, raising the alert for low BG during the night. I would like to see some expert opinions about shooting two doses of insulin on a kitty that has had anesthesia -- and quite a bit of anesthesia, given the length of the procedure.

Also, we were advised to feed only little bits of food - a teaspoon max, every 15-30 minutes -- because there's always the risk of post-anesthesia nausea. Vomiting would only send the BG lower. So even though she may be hungry, food has to be given carefully, further complicating the insulin issue.

That is only what I know about Kitty!! I hope more experienced people will chime in.

(((Sara)))

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental update & Dose question

hi sara. happy to hear everything went well!
the after effects of anesthesia can have a glucose lowering effect in some cats. look at moonie's ss (11/18) for an example of what i'm talking about. notice roni shot a reduced PM dose and moonie still managed to drop into the 40s: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ajs8RZsEo7LRcHJIODhJcEhuZGpiY0dQbjN1RWRhSHc&hl=en.

my suggestion would be to test her when she gets home and then get a few more spot checks before normal shot time to determine the rate of the rise (if there's a rise). her numbers may even come down before shot time. i would get a test at what would have been your +11.5 and post all the data you've collected. ask for dose suggestions. you may want to shoot a reduced dose tonight.

when you get her home, feed only small amounts of food at a time. you don't want her vomiting. put her in a quiet dark room. keep an eye on her, but let her rest.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental update & Dose question

ps --- this is not a good idea. please don't shoot twice for the reasons i mentioned above...

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental update & Dose question

Thank you Kathy & Jill.

I will skip the afternoon dose, get a +11.5 and go from there. I'll get a few spot checks during the day too. I had no idea that anesthesia could drop BG's. The vet said that with all the stress today, I should expect her to be very high for the next few days. I think that's why she wanted me to get her home and get some insulin in her. But, I think we have more experience here though, so I'll wait for tonight and then consider shooting.

Small meals, dark room. Got it. I'm going to see how she's acting and go from there. I will also try very hard to leave her alone.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental update & Dose question

not every kitty reacts the same. we've just seen quite a few drop too low at night after receiving anesthesia.
those spot checks will help you decide about a dose tonight.
hope you can get some rest, too. i don't know about you, but i'm always wiped out from worry after my kitties have dentals or other procedures.
wishing magnolia a speedy recovery...

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental update & Dose question

glad to see everything went well at the dentist.

you asked about the lb - I would put it in the room with her, since your intent is to keep her quiet and contained until she's totally recovered, so that way she doesn't have to worry about leaving the room or getting down 2 flights of stairs and back up.

Tomorrow, return everything to normal and she will understand. Also be sure to tell her you're doing this special for her, so she does get it.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental update & Dose question

Sara -

Ditto what Jill said. I followed her instructions after Gabby's dental. Do get a test in when you get home. That way you will have a BG level to compare your +11.5 to so you will know which way numbers are going. You may want to get a test in after Magnolia has acclimated to being back home.

Feed only a teaspoon or two at a time, otherwise, you may end up with scarf-and-barf.

You may want to pick up some baby food to use as treats. It sounds like Magnolia's mouth will be sore from the extractions. Any kind of chunky treat may be hard for her to enjoy.

Also, make sure you have bupe for pain management. My vet gave me the form I could inject just like insulin (sub-cutaneous). That way, I didn't have to worry about banging into Gabby's sutures with an oral syringe.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental update & Dose question

It was a busy day at the vet, I waited almost an hour just to get into a room to get discharge info and take her home. We are home and she is quite annoyed and confused. I'm not sure why, but her whole butt is wet, it's clean, but wet, and she doesn't like it...she keeps pacing, stopping, cleaning herself, looking around, repeat. I did put the LB in her room and I fluffed her pillows. She didn't show any interest in water, but she did eat a tiny little spoon of Wellness turkey. I'm going to give her a few minutes to fully realize where she is and then I'll get a BG check.

They gave me bupe in oral syringe form. I wish I had known to ask for the injectable ones...but I have to give her oral antibiotics anyway, so this will work ok. I'll be extra careful.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental recovery, home now

Glad she's home and healthy (if a bit peeved and with fewer teeth).She may be damp because they "cleaned" her up for you. She just needs to settle in and sleep off the tough day. You probably do too.
I'm sure other with experience w/ the meds will continue to help you out.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental recovery, home now

I'm glad your girl is home. Remember to get a spot check.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental recovery, home now

happy she's home with you!

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental recovery, home now

Sara ...hope you are better now. I know that feeling of being ready to puke...
:YMSIGH: I hate dental days. But you and Magnolia have gone through it now and it is over....what a good feeling to have her home and resting. (hopefully) She will eventually feel much better now that it is all done.

(I just made an appointment for my two for Monday....I feel the band tightening around my forehead now...I dread it so much)

Good that you got all those great tidbits of information....all about post-dental stuff. Isn't it comforting to have all these experienced loving Beans to help you out with their tips? I just wanted to send some HUGS your way...hope you and Magnolia have a good night....

 

+8 341

It is SO comforting to have support, as you know too. Maybe I'll learn something over the next couple of days that might come in handy for you on Monday! ;-)

If she is resting, she won't let me see. She is staying upstairs, if I stay there with her, she sits up, in the hallway, looking my way, and she nods off every minute or so, nearly falls over, then wakes up and looks around to make sure I didn't see it. I can't get her to lie down when I am around. As soon as I come back downstairs, I hear her walking somewhere and then she's quiet. As soon as I start back up the stairs, she pops back out into the hallway and acts like she's been there the whole time. What a funny little cat. It's almost like the drunk person who is trying to act sober. I'm not sure if cats do this too...but when I have anesthesia, I get ridiculous insomnia.

I was able to get a +8 but it was difficult. She did not want to cooperate in any way. I'll try for a +10 and +11.5. She ate just when we got home and hasn't shown any interest in food since then. She did drink some water.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental recovery, home now

Lucy had a much easier dental than Magnolia (just a cleaning), but when she came home I couldn't get her to calm down! She was wired, stumbling around but wired.

I'm glad Magnolia is home. Hopefully she'll eat something soon but she probably just feels a little nauseous still. Give her space, she'll be ok.

((((Sara))))

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental recovery, home now

Gee I forgot when Moonie dropped so much after her last dental--Yes the nom nom effect!! Moonie did have that!!
Our vet said to keep her in the carrier for about an hour so she wouldnt be wobbly, but they cry so bitterly, we let them out & they stumble around!!--Moonie came home the first time & ate the house, she was so hungry & didnt barf!!
I am so glad Magnolis came home & did well!!--Believe me Moonie is one of the Queens of extractions--Now she has so few teeth, she probably wont ever need a dental(antijinx)!!
MAGNOLIA, YOU JUST FEEL ALL BETTER SOON, WITH YOUR BEAUTIFUL TOOFUS ALL CLEAN!!
What a smile now!!--Her numbers could come down now too after those bad teeth are out!! Good going today- Sara,You are a champ!!

 

+10 282

I don't think she has noticed her pretty toofers just yet. I got her to eat a couple of spoons of dinner. I finally figured out what she's doing, and she IS resting. She is climbing into DH's closet and curling up on his clothes. She didn't even try to make it back out before I got to the top of the stairs this time. Hopefully this means some of the chemicals are wearing off.

I'll post again at +11.5 to see what to do with her injection tonight.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental recovery, home now

Kitty also prowled around actively when we first got him home! Not sure what does that... But then he got verra sleepy.

As for the wet bottom, again our experience: Kitty didn't hold the fluids on his trip home. He went in the carrier on the way home. Would that be a reason they would need to "clean him up" -- maybe he urinated when not fully awake?

Anyway, now it's just recovery under your loving care. Don't forget to give yourself some loving care, too. Dentals are tough on beans!! :YMHUG:

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental recovery, home now

Hi Sara
What a long day of waiting to get Magnolia back home with you.
I am so glad all went well for her dental and now you will take care of her.
Sweet little girl.
Sending lots of feel better vines for Magnolia an that you both get some
well needed rest.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental recovery, home now

Very glad to read that Magnolia is home after her ordeal. Cats have to recover the way they themselves think is right and it sounds like Magnolia is doing just that. Have a comfortable night Magnolia and Sara!

Ella & Stu

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental recovery, home now

Glad to hear that Magnolia is back home and resting. Hopefully you can get some rest tonight, too. It sounds like she's going to be just fine once she clears the meds out of her system and gets back into her routine at home.

(((Sara and Magnolia)))

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, +8 341, +10 282, +11.5 197 Dose Help!

Thanks! We are glad to be home too, or, I think Magnolia will be once she realizes where she is and that there are 2 other floors in our house. She won't come downstairs! But she did manage to jump on the bed, after she fell off twice. I'll get some TLC...as soon as she is feeling better. Isn't that always how it works?

So...I have no idea what to do with her dose. She is eating a bit more as of +10 than when she got home, but I am not sure I can count on her usually big appetite to get her through any drops. She last ate at +10. Should I shoot a lowered dose? Wait, I can hear her licking her bowl upstairs...maybe her appetite is back? Any thoughts?

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, +8 341, +10 282, +11.5 197 Dose Help!

hmm, I don't think I would shoot full dose. Let me take a better look at her SS.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, +8 341, +10 282, +11.5 197 Dose Help!

I talked with Jill - what do you think about 1/2 dose?

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, +8 341, +10 282, +11.5 197 Dose Help!

I think I am comfortable with whatever you gals think, you have much more experience than I do. But what would half of 3.75 be? 2 or 1.75?

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, +8 341, +10 282, +11.5 197 Dose Help!

I would err on the side of caution, so 1.75. Still get spot checks in case she keeps dropping. Sometimes that happens.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, +8 341, +10 282, +11.5 197 Dose Help!

Sounds good. Thank you so much for your quick help Libby! And Jill! :smile:

 

PMPS 139

Should I still shoot 1.75?

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, PMPS 139 Dose Help!

if you want to do less, I wouldn't complain. :smile:

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, PMPS 139 Dose Help!

Just to be safe, I'm going to shoot 1.5. Her shed is rocked anyway and it's going to take some time to get it back to where it was. I'd much rather be safe...

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, PMPS 139 Dose Help!

sounds good. Get a +1, and try to get her to eat.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, PMPS 139

She ate 2 big spoons of Wellness LC. I will start with a +1, but have a feeling I'll be testing a lot tonight.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, PMPS 139

do you have some canned hc in the house? i'm not saying you'll need it... just asking.
how is magnolia doing tonight?

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, PMPS 139

Yes I have the HC Wellness Chicken and Lobster as well as FF w/gravy. I think she is doing well. No LB action and she still won't come downstairs, but she is much less wobbly. Her eyes are still a little crazy looking, pupils not yet quite normal, but much better than a few hours ago.

I find that if I stay upstairs with her, she climbs on the bed and wants to be petted, she purrs away and gives head butts, but if I come downstairs, she climbs back into the closet and goes to sleep. She's sleeping now. I will feel bad about waking her up for the +1, but we'll both get over it.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, PMPS 139

Welcome home, Magnolia. Feel better soon!

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, PMPS 139

she sounds like she's doing pretty good overall... that's good!
i'm hoping the nom-nom effect is over soon. unfortunately, you'll have to monitor closely tonight until we see where she's headed.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, PMPS 139

I think the nom-nom effect just kicked in, maybe it will be a fast one.

Yes, I've resigned myself to staying awake tonight. Sleep Schmeep! I'm reading the philosophy of art and aesthetics, heady stuff, will keep me up for days if necessary. I just hope she will tolerate the poking without the salmon treats. So far, she's been fighting me quite a bit and as she gets her strength back, I have a feeling she will get more difficult. Good thing I'm bigger than she is.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, PMPS 139

it may sound silly, but when i took the time to explain to alex what i had to do and why... she seemed to understand.
or maybe it just made me feel better. :mrgreen:

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, PMPS 139, +1 141

Ok, I'll try that for the +2. +1 141...it's gonna be a long night.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, PMPS 139

that's ok for a +1, at least she didn't keep dropping. The +2 will be telling. Hopefully it will be up enough that you can go ni-ni. :smile:

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, PMPS 139

that's not bad. i agree with libby... not dropping at +1 is good.
see you at +2...

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, PMPS 139

Hope she keeps surfing in the blues because it's good for dental night..By tomorrow you will have your Magnolia back..By the way, cats do hide their pain, so dont hesitate to give the bupe. OK? She had some big dental work so it may be sore for a few days..Bupe will make her tired a bit, but she wont be sore--Have a good night!--HUGS~!

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, Bupe Question UGH

It's funny you mentioned the bupe Roni, I was just posting a question about it.

The vet tech I met with told me to start both the meds tomorrow (bupe and ab). I was just talking to DH and I showed him the meds and read on the bupe envelope, start at 8pm on 3/2. I checked the discharge papers...it too says to start it on 3/2. GRRRRRR.

Should I give it to her tonight? Now maybe? Does it affect BG's? Is it too late to give it now?

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, Bupe Question UGH

sara, i've sent messages to a couple people about the bupe. i have some here that says to give 0.10ml every 12 hours if needed.
will be back in a couple minutes... hopefully, with an answer.

 

+2 159

thanks jill. i wish i would have read it sooner. i just checked her +2 it's 159, and she ate again. She's extra cuddly, rolling on her back and rubbing her head (and jaw) on the bed. She definitely winces if I go near hear jaw though. the dose on the bupe is 2. they gave me a bunch of preloaded oral syringes.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, Bupe Question UGH

Sara:

How much does Magnolia weigh? Gabby was getting 0.15 sub-q and she weighs around 12 lbs.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, Bupe Question UGH

is 2ml the dose or .2ml the dose?

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, Bupe Question UGH

Magnolia is 11 pounds and it is .2 every 12 hours. Sorry I put my . in the wrong spot.

Vet tech told me to get it UNDER her tongue, which is not possible. She said it absorbs through the mucous membranes better than the stomach. Maybe the give a bit more to make up for that?

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, Bupe Question UGH

You might want to make this a two-person squirt job -- one to hold and one to squirt -- especially since Magnolia's mouth is sore. When we gave Kitty bupe, he pulled away very quickly. I think the bupe doesn't taste great. But it's SO effective.

If Magnolia is going to take this a couple of days, consider buying some Miralax. The bupe can be constipating. Jill knows how to dose it, because she taught me!

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, Bupe Question UGH

it's usually easier to squirt it in the cheek pouch than under the tongue. cheryl is doing a quick search to double check the dose because gabby (.35ml), alex (.1ml), and magnolia (.2ml) were all prescribed different doses.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, Bupe Question UGH

They gave me enough syringes for 5 days. She hasn't used the LB yet...I wonder if that is why...

She is definitely showing some pain now. I'll wait to hear on the dose, but I'm leaning toward giving it soon. Was Gabby getting it orally or injected? I'll also aim for the cheek pouch. It will certainly be a 2 person job.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, Bupe Question UGH

yes, i'd give it to her. she may be uncomfortable.
gabby's was injected. alex's was for oral use, but i never gave it to her because she didn't have any extractions.

edited to add: cheryl said it looks like the amount is ok to give. you can always back the dose down as she's feeling better.

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, Bupe Question UGH

Ok. Done. UNDER the tongue?! Unless we could get her to stick out her tongue and say "aaaaaah"...no way! We got it in the cheek pocket, but she still swallowed most of it. Wow, does that stuff work fast? She went in the other room to eat, came back, tried to jump back on the bed and missed completely. She curled up and passed out.

Should I still get more checks tonight? I'm still up for a while to finish this chapter, I'll get a +3 for sure, maybe +4, but should I try to get more?

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, Bupe Question UGH

let's see where she is at +3. it'll give you an idea if she needs further testing.
you might want to restrict her to one room so she doesn't get hurt trying to go up or down stairs...

 

Re: 3.2 Magnolia Dental, Bupe Question UGH

Gabby was pretty loopy with bupe. I did cut the dose back after the first day. I'd just keep an eye on Magnolia and try to balance out the pain management with her being functional. This is an opiate so Magnolia will be 'high' on the bupe.

 

I can't really restrict her to 1 room because her LB won't fit in our room without blocking her path in/out. Our house is very old and we have tiny tiny rooms. Unless I lock her in another room alone...but I don't want to do that. What I can do is block the stairs to make sure she doesn't try to wander the rest of the house. +3 is 206 and she last ate at +2. Unless the bupe raises her, this seems kinda safe to at least nap. DH will wake up at +8 and test her. I left out plenty of food. My biggest concern is that the bupe will make her so sleepy, she may not feed herself if she drops...

 

closing off the stairs is a good idea. how about taking a nap til +5.5, test, and then dh can grab a test at +8... just in case she should drop? she probably won't but i share your concern that she might not feed herself if she's loopy from the bupe.

 

A good plan, she probably won't drop, but I'd like to be safe.

Thank you so much for all your help. I just set my alarm and will post the +5.5 to the SS. Hopefully you will be asleep by then!

Ni-Ni!

 

i doubt she'll drop, but just in case...
goodnight!