2/25 Morris AMPS 104; PMPS 155

yesterday: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7340

Thinking that perhaps Morris isn't liking the food I am putting out for him, last night I decided to give him options! Using his divided dish, I put out 1/2 can EVO & 1/2 can Friskies. This morning, all of the EVO has been eaten up! I put water in with all of his food.....the water was all gone from the Friskies sections, but I don't think he ate too much of the food from those sections.

jojo and bunny said:

talk to your vet and ask if you should be giving 100 mls or so bid while he is having this flare.

Click to expand...

Give him fluids twice a day?!?! Not sure I could handle that! He is a very difficult patient! I could attempt once daily rather than every other day. How long does a flare usually last?

jojo and bunny said:

most CP cats do not need steroids to get through a flare, it is more of a last resort type of thing, this is his first flare right?

Click to expand...

Yes, this is his first flare that I know about.

jojo and bunny said:

and his main symptoms is not eating? if that is is main symptom, then i certainly would be treating the main symptom by using appy stims. will your vet write you an Rx for mirtz?

Click to expand...

Yes, that is the biggest problem now. He was really grumpy in the beginning as well, but thankfully that has eased a bit since we started the bupe. I could ask my vet about the mirtz.

jojo and bunny said:

also pepcid comes injectable form, a whole bottle is only a couple of bucks, would be very helpful for your vet to sell you a bottle, so much easier than trying to get a pill in.

Click to expand...

Good to know! Will definately be asking about that now!!!!

jojo and bunny said:

are you still giving the bupe everyday?

Click to expand...

Yes. My vet wants me to give it BID for a full 14 days. I started in the evening of Feb 15, so his last dose should be in the morning of Mar 1.

jojo and bunny said:

lol, i think what is needed is a recap of what you are doing and what his symptoms are so that (don't know about anyone else but i went back day after day after day trying to put the whole story together) we can have an easier time answering adn giving suggestions.

Click to expand...

I will do this later today......have to get going to work right now :roll: I just wanted to make sure I answered most of the questions before heading out the door!!!

jojo and bunny said:

sorry haven't been around, having pain flare myself.

Click to expand...

No worries! I knew you had been having some difficulties. I hope you are on the mend soon!!!

Re: 2/25 Morris AMPS 104 - answers to jojo's questions

I went through that food test thing with Shadoe as well.
I lined up a few different kinds with water added to each then waited to see what went first and what sat there to rot.

I keep a list of which foods got 1. gobbled, including chewing on the dish to get the last crumbs, 2. eaten, but with no gusto, and 3. got left to rott and I also got looks like "you kidding me? Would YOU eat that??" And EVO all flavors did not go over big with Shadoe, so go figure!
All the choices offered have to pass the carb # level, so I figure why not give a choice. I like some veggies but not every veggie. And kitties are the epitome of fusspots, so best to offer what's going to be eaten ;-)

ohmygod_smile liquid pepcid! I gotta get me some of THAT! The battle to pill even with the shooter is hard on both of us, so getting the liquid for Morris would be great!

The fluids, I would love to hear more about the benefits of splitting up during the day or going with the total amount once a day. Maybe if the benefits are great with BID, then Morris best get used to BID :lol: I found that while Shadoe was sort of resigned to them, she got sort of impatient to be done when we gave the entire 100ml. It could be that Morris may tolerate sitting for half as much but more often, what do you think? We have lived through only the initial p-itis attack and thankfully no flares that I know about :?

I sure hope you get everything all sorted out soon, and to Morris' liking ;-)

Pancreatitis timeline recap

Feb 7/8 - Morris was getting grumpier than usual
Feb 8/9 - Morris did not eat very much
Feb 9 - with assistance from my wonderful friends here at FDMB, I managed to get Morris to eat a bit more this evening. I called the on-call vet, but did not hear back from them.
Feb 10 - called my vet's office & learned that my regular vet was away, so I made an appointment for Morris to see 1 of the other vets at the clinic. This vet could see that there were some possible 'problem' areas in Morris' mouth, but didn't want to schedule a dental quite yet. She recommended we do some labwork (including fpl) before doing anything else.
Feb 11 - heard back from vet re: lab results. She was hesitant to label him as having pancreatitis, but the labwork (after I received a copy of it) cleary indicates he does have it. She ordered SQ fluids & pain meds for him. She wants us to try to get a minimum of 270 kcals into him per day. That afternoon, I went to the vet office with Morris to learn how to give SQ fluids - I was told to give 250 mls every other day. The bupe is on order, probably won't be in until either Sat Feb 13 or Mon Feb 15.
Feb 12 - I stayed home from work today (mental health day ;-) ) With me giving him small amounts all day long & putting what was left in the can into his bowl before I went to bed, I managed to get him to eat an entire 5 oz can of EVO into him which is about 210 kcals!
Feb 13 - discovered 1 small episode of diarhea in the LB this morning - called vet to report this (not concerned as it was first time) & to see if bupe has arrived yet (not until Mon). Gave another 250 mls of SQ fluids today. Morris went to the pet sitter's this afternoon.
Feb 15 - picked Morris up from pet sitters this afternoon. Learned that he vomitted at her house on Sun evening & again Mon morning. Reading through what she was feeding him this weekend, learned that he had been eating mostly MC & HC!! Also had high BG readings! Went directly from pet sitter's to vet office - they were just doing the label for Morris' bupe! Spoke with another vet there about the vomitting - was not too concerned as he was in a strange setting this weekend & eating strange foods. She wants me to monitor this & call back if the vomitting continues. Gave another 250 mls of SQ fluids today. He was hungry when we got home & ate 1/2 can LC EVO in record time! Began giving bupe this evening. Label says to give 0.2 ml every 8-12 hours for 14 days.
Feb 16 - Overnight last night, he ate another 1/2 can EVO! Looks like his appetite is starting to improve!!! Decided to try using his timed feeder again today. When I came home from work, I discovered that although he had eaten what I had left in his regular bowl (1/4 can EVO), he had not touched any of the food I had put into his timed feeder (1/4 can EVO for +2, +5 and +8). Will not use the timed feeder for the next while!
Feb 17 - eating is improving. Gave another 250 mls SQ fluids.
Feb 18 - Spoke with my regular vet today! She agrees with me - labs indicate that Morris does indeed have pancreatitis. Since Morris is eating better now, I do not need to continue with the SQ fluids. She does want me to continue with the bupe for the full 14 days. Asked her about giving him B12 injections - she is familiar with doing that for IBD, but not as familiar with it for pancreatitis - she will look into it & get back to me.
Feb 20/21 - Morris came with dd & I on a road trip! We travelled about 90 mins north of where we live to attend a swim meet. Morris did well travelling in his bag buckled into the back seat of the car next to my dd. While we were at the pool, Morris was kept in a larger cage in the back of our car. He had his LB, blankie & food with him. I checked on him several times during the day & he did just fine! We spent the night in a pet friendly room at a hotel & he had a great time exploring! Sunday, he did not eat as much food as usual - even once we returned home.
Feb 22 - spoke with my vet again. She is in agreement for a trial of B12 injections, but wants to do baseline labwork before we start - will cost about $100-125ish & will then have to repeat them in 6 weeks time. She says I can think about it & let her know my decision at a later time. Since Morris is not eating again, I picked up more SQ fluids & gave another 250 mls tonight. He has now been taking his bupe for 1 week. He ate a little better this evening after getting the fluids.
Feb 23 - Tonight, I decided to go ahead with the labwork to begin the B12 injections. I am only working 1/2 day tomorrow, so will try to get Morris into the vets office tomorrow for the labwork
Feb 24 - OOPS! Forgot that this labwork needs to be done while FASTING! Can't be done today now. I have made an appointment for him to have it done 9am on Sat Feb 27. I need to have him fast over night, then give him 1/2 dose of insulin at regular time before taking him the vets office to have the labwork drawn.

In addition to all of this, I have been attempting the 1/4 tab Pepcid AC. Most of the time, the pill does not go down! It is even difficult for me to get the bupe into his cheek pocket! Some days I am not sure that I am getting the full dose of bupe into his cheek pocket or not.

Re: 2/25 Morris AMPS 104 - p~itis timeline recap added

Hi Gwen,
Hope the links worked for you to the yahoo groups. You may have to wait a day or two for approval by the moderators.

I use injectible famotidine (pepcid) because latte is a pill to pill. :twisted: It goes in w/o her even noticing this way! the cheapest I have found it is through Sam's club for about $17.00. www.thrivingpets.com sells a vial for about $20, last I checked. Ive always had good experiences dealing with them.

watery food- Latte eats her food in the consistency of a thin pea soup. My life is much easier after getting small food grinder/processor. One can of food, some water, cap on, push button and dinner is served! :mrgreen: You can put any remaining food in a container and then in the fridge or freezer for later (I just pitch it because latte refuses left overs :roll: ). It is also then at a consistency to syringe feed, if you needed to do that.

Hopefully an appetite stimulant will be helpful. I know a lot of folks are fans of mirtz here. I use cyproheptidine. Before you give whatever it is, you might want to check with folks here or in health about dose. I know the standard dose given by vets for cypro is much higher than a lot of cats can tolerate (makes them hyper, anxious, restless, etc. OR the opposite super duper depressed). For us, it was a matter of tailoring the dose to Latte's needs. After the first time around I have never needed the recommended starting dose. ECID, but I always figure its better to check around before giving any med.

Sorry Morris will not sit well for the fluids. You could try warming them ever so slightly in a sink of water. What size needle to you use? The smaller the gauge, the larger the needle. I use a 19 or 20, depending on how quick I want to get it done. Anything smaller than a 19 and most cats will have a hard time. I think a lot of vets start clients with an 18 (youch! :shock: ) I will let jojo speak to the amount/time of day fluids might be best given. Im going to guess she meant once/day...instead of 250 e/0, 100 every..or 125. Maybe you could learn to check for hydration? Remember, a dehydrated cat (or person) is not going to feel so well....and probably wont want to eat.

I have not used bup, but I understand there is an ear oinment that can be used? Maybe someone else can chime in about that. It might help in the future if you cant get it in orally. In fact most meds can be compounded into a form that does not need to be taken orally OR taken in a much more pleasurable manner (flavored liquid, pills in treat form). Ive used a place called wedgewood pharmacy, though there are MANY compounding pharmacies that could help you out.

Eating - what kind of foods have you tried? Any tricks you use or has it been put the bowl down and hope he eats kinda thing? If morris is having any reflux or an acidic tummy, it would be good to raise both water and food bowl high enough so it is above his stomach when he is eating.

I hope you are having a good day!

I am sad to say that Morris barely ate anything today :sad: He only ate about 1/4 can EVO. He didn't even drink up the water that was mixed in with the food in the other sections of his divided dish. Because of this, I went ahead & gave him another 250 mls of SQ fluids this evening. I sent a note to my vets office this afternoon asking a few questions, including asking for clarification on how much/how often I should give Morris his SQ fluids.

Gayle and Shadoe said:

I sure hope you get everything all sorted out soon, and to Morris' liking

Click to expand...

Thanks Gayle!

carolynandlatte said:

Hope the links worked for you to the yahoo groups. You may have to wait a day or two for approval by the moderators.

Click to expand...

Haven't had a chance to get there yet....was crazy busy at work today! LOL!

carolynandlatte said:

What size needle to you use? The smaller the gauge, the larger the needle. I use a 19 or 20, depending on how quick I want to get it done. Anything smaller than a 19 and most cats will have a hard time. I think a lot of vets start clients with an 18 (youch! )

Click to expand...

I double checked tonight.....I am using a 18G 1 1/2

carolynandlatte said:

Remember, a dehydrated cat (or person) is not going to feel so well....and probably wont want to eat.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reminder! Some days, we get so stressed out about things (like a cat not eating!), and we forget the basics! Since he didn't eat very much today, I went ahead & gave fluids again this evening in hopes it will make him feel better & want to eat more.

carolynandlatte said:

Eating - what kind of foods have you tried? Any tricks you use or has it been put the bowl down and hope he eats kinda thing?

Click to expand...

The first few days, when I was desperate to get him to eat ANYTHING, I tried all of the different varieties in our tool box. LC options were EVO, Friskies & Fancy Feast, plus I also have MC & HC Fancy Feast flavors. I also gave him tuna water & a can of our own canned salmon. Once we started with the bupe & the SQ fluids were working & he was eating better, I then went back to feeding strictly our LC options. Now it has just been the past few days that he hasn't been eating as well again. Still, he is at least eating SOME each day, which is better when this flare first started back on Feb 8/9

carolynandlatte said:

If morris is having any reflux or an acidic tummy, it would be good to raise both water and food bowl high enough so it is above his stomach when he is eating.

Click to expand...

I hadn't thought of trying that! I have been putting his food bowl closer to his bed. We have a love seat in the rec room that Morris spends most of his time in.....during the day (when we are all out at work/school) and before I go to bed, I have been trying to remember to move his little mat he sleeps on to 1 side of the love seat & putting his food bowl on the other side of the love seat.

Oh Gwen, I know exactly how you feel...I have been going through the same not eating thing with MY Morris for the last 2 months, only without the assistance of a vet. I wrote a really long post earlier and then lost it and didn't have the heart to redo it. Will try and hit some of the high points...

I have been using cyproheptadine for appetite stimulation and it works pretty well if you can get the pill in. That was my first problem, which I solved by hiding the pill inside an appetizer made of a small bit of cracker and Laughing Cow cheese. Worked great until he found the pill. Then I started using a tiny Temptation treat and peanut butter as the peanut butter is stickier and he's so far not found the pill. Plus he will ALWAYS eat Temptations no matter how sick he is.

I am giving Morris B-12 shots because he has bouts of diarrhea and went through the usual routines with no success so my old vet was willing to try it...B-12 will help with malabsorption in the colon. Currently giving 250mg, which is 25 units on an insulin syringe, every 3 days. You now need a prescription for injectable B-12 - used to be able to buy without a script at a feed store but those days are history I guess. I hate to even put it in writing, but his diarrhea has improved considerably since I started the shots.

I discovered that he loves shrimp...I have been buying the little shrimp in the freezer section...something like $2.25 for 8 oz. He gobbles them up but just tonight pureed them with my immersion blender and it's even better. As a matter of fact, I am now pureeing all his foods with the blender and he seems to eat it better. I also made him some chicken gizzards the other day and they went over pretty well. Yesterday I did chicken livers and he liked them too. I thought maybe the organ meats would have more calories as he is just a shadow of himself now.

I tried raising his food up off the floor as Carolyn suggested and he seems much more comfortable when he's eating...figured it was worth a try.

Basically, I am just trying to keep him alive until we can get to see a vet who didn't sleep through IBD class as NONE of them here have ever hear of budesonide. Going back to the original vet tomorrow because at least she was willing to try new things I suggested...the last vet (now my ex-vet) wanted to give me Valium (whether for me or for Morris wasn't really clear) and shoot him up with depo-medrol in preparation for having him PTS if he didn't get better in a few days. When I asked her to look into the bedesonide she said she would and would call me back...that was Tuesday morning....still waiting.

I hope you get him eating soon...at least the Sub-Q will keep him hydrated.