5/18 Mr. Kink AMPS - 390 - still wondering about food

Edited to add: Previous convo (sorry about that! Still learnin' the ropes)

Hey guys,

Not happy about Mr. Kink's AMPS, but I know I still need to be patient since he hasn't been on the insulin for that long. nailbite_smile

Still wondering about how much food to give him. He's always hungry, no matter what I do, but I feel like I've already seen him gain some weight back, but I might be imagining that, too.

This is all I found on catinfo.org:

The average cat should eat 4-6 ounces of canned food per day split between 3-4 meals/day (or just free-fed if they are not overweight) but this is just a general guideline. When determining how much you should be feeding your cat once transitioned to canned food, keep it simple. Too fat? Feed less. Too thin? Feed more.

Someone mentioned a formula based on their ideal weight (which, I THINK for him would be about 15 lbs), but I couldn't find it.

Just froze some cans of FF in an ice cube tray, and gonna try and figure out how to program these automatic feeders that came in the mail on Wednesday!

Forgot to call the vet today to request the SoloStar pens - I'm on cold meds and trying to work from home. UGH. I will call on Monday and see what she says. Bought Zobaline today on eBay thanks to Liz! Hopefully Mr. Kink will soon be back to his spunky self and not slippin' all over the place.

Caitlin

From Dr. Lisa's site, there are two ways you can calculate calories needed:

1. Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70 I have found this to be quite liberal and more than my cats need but the way to determine it is try it for a week and then weigh him...did he gain or lose?

2. The other formula is 20calories x optimal weight in lbs so a kitty that weighs 10lbs would get 200 calories/day. I actually used this formula and then did the same thing....after a week, did they gain or lose? And then I made tiny adjustments....a change of 1% a week.

It is important, though, that as you might be adjusting the calories that you weight them weekly and make sure that they are not gaining but also, more importantly, that they are not losing ....or, if you want him to lose, that he is not losing too fast. A safe rate of weight loss is 1 - 2% of their current body weight per week.

I can't tell from your profile (and without being able to link back to your previous posts - we always put a link in back to the last post that way we can follow back on the history of the kitty) whether Mr. Kink is overweight. If he's not overweight I wouldn't be worried about feeding him the 'right' amount of food just now. When numbers are high kitty is going to be hungry but won't be able to utilise the food properly so won't put on weight. I would let him eat as much as he likes. Vyktor is free fed and I didn't change this throughout his sugar dance as he is not and has never been overweight. Interestingly he eats a lot more than Dr Lisa's formula would suggest so Marje, as Marje said, if you are restricting his food intake you need to be weighing him to make sure he's not losing weight (unless he needs to) as ECID.

Don't worry about the numbers just yet Mr. Kink's shed is still filling if he only started Lantus on 05/16 but do be testing for ketones at those numbers - I didn't check his ss just his profile so perhaps that shows that you are.

Marjorie and Gracie said:

From Dr. Lisa's site, there are two ways you can calculate calories needed:

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Thank you so much for the formulas, Marjorie! I think I calculated that if Mr. Kink's ideal weight is about 15lbs, he should be getting about 10oz of food/day. And my civvie should be getting 6-7oz/day since she's very tiny, ideally about 8lbs.

Vyktors Mum said:

I can't tell from your profile (and without being able to link back to your previous posts - we always put a link in back to the last post that way we can follow back on the history of the kitty) whether Mr. Kink is overweight.

Click to expand...

Gah, sorry about that. Forgot about the linking the previous day's thread thing - I edited my previous post to include it. I'll try and fill out his profile a bit more, just got it up and running last night. He's always fluctuated, depending on his food situation and what he's eating. He's lost about 3 lbs in the past 3-4 months because of the diabetes, so he went from 16-17 to 14, and we thought he was doing great, and then found out he was actually sick :sad: Right now, he seems skinny up top to me, with kind of a fat belly, if that makes sense. I need to weigh him to know if he's gained any since we switched him from the Hill's kibble to the FF cans.

He had a blood test about two weeks ago (in my sig) and ketones were negative. Do I need to be testing for those myself? I saw something about stix and pee and I just have no idea how I would ever even accomplish that. I have no idea when he goes, how to get in the covered litter box to put it in the stream...etc.

Thanks for your input!!

Caitlin & Mr. Kink said:

Do I need to be testing for those myself? I saw something about stix and pee and I just have no idea how I would ever even accomplish that. I have no idea when he goes, how to get in the covered litter box to put it in the stream...etc.

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You don't need to but it's a good idea to keep some urine test strips on hand and test occasionally. You can buy either KetoStix or KetoDiastix from the Human pharmacy. KetoStix tests only for the presences of ketones. KetoDiastix tests for both ketones and glucose. If you will be blood glucose testing, you don't need to test the urine for glucose. Urine glucose will always be high for diabetics (because glucose build up in the urine over time until the cat pees) and is not an accurate way to know how well the diabetes is being controlled.

Youc an stick a long handled spoon under the cat as he pees. Or temporarily replace the normal litter with a 1/4 inch layer of nonabsorbant material like fish tank gravel. After the cat pees, just tip the box to collect the pee into a corner and stick a test strip into that. There is a litter box called the SmartCat Box that is useful to collect urine.

Zener did the same thing, lost a bunch of weight (he needed to lose a little), but then he kept losing and we got very concerned. We got a baby scale to keep track of his weight. For a while we were weighing him every day and now we are down to once a week and he's pretty much maintaining a good weight.

We also bought a food scale and now we measure everything he eats to make sure he's getting enough. We seem to have found a good amount for him to eat and maintain his weight.

How are you going to give the zobaline to Mr. Kink? Dry pilling is not a good idea. Dr. Lisa explains why and gives some good options. We did that for a while before we realized it wasn't good. :roll:
Liz

Absolutely you need to be testing yourself when kitty is having high numbers. Ketones are very dangerous and can come on quickly and result in diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) which can be fatal and at the very least result in a very sick kitty and a massive vet bill so you want to be aware of the presence of any ketone ASAP. You can pick up ketostix (or ketodiastix which also test glucose - they are no replacement for BG testing as the results you are seeing are hours old but it can be interesting to have the additional glucose info and when you get your first negative for glucose it is a happy dance occasion ) from your local pharmacy and they're not expensive.

If Mr. Kink and your other kitty use separate trays - so that you know that the urine belongs to Mr. Kink - it sounds like the easiest way for you will be to replace the litter in his tray with something non-absorbent (aquarium gravel, lentils, cut up pieces of plastic bag etc) then you don't need to catch him in the act. You'd want to do it when you're home though as you want to be testing the urine quite quickly after collection (if I recall correctly it's within an hour but the instructions will confirm that). You also need to be accurate about the number of seconds after you dip the stick in the urine that you assess the color of the stick as it will continue to change color - also in the instructions.

Note the results in the comments section on your ss.

If you are able to catch him in the act and he has his rear end to the opening of the covered tray you can stick a table spoon under him midstream and grab your sample that way. If you're going to try that I suggest you leave your spoon near the tray ready to go.

I would be testing at least weekly until his numbers come down under 200.

So much to learn but you are in the best place to be learning it :smile:

Thank you, squeem3 & Vyktors Mum. I'll look into getting the stix and figure out how to test him.

Liz - hadn't gotten that far yet! Just checked out Dr. Lisa's site and I'll probably get some of those Greenies Pill Pockets and see if that'll work for him. What method have you guys been using since you figured out that dry pilling is bad?