11/25 Gracie PMPS 243 +2 268 +4 271

Gracie's Scary Yesterday

11/24 Recap:
AMPS: 296 11th cycle sk1.25u lev
+3: 293
+8: 262
PMPS: 193 New Dose f1u lev
+2: 20 :shock: nailbite_smile nailbite_smile
+2.5: 40
+3: 66
+3.5: 118
+4.5: 162
+6: 259

Happy Friday!! Sending more prayers to Jill and Mike and healing vines to all our kitties and beans who need them.

I'm not sure what to say about last night other than utter shock. Gracie earned a reduction the pm cycle of 11/23 but bounced so I shot through the bounce yesterday morning and she was coming down pretty slow all day and had a decent PMPS so I reduced her dose. Normally at that high of a number with lev, I would not have checked her until +3 but since I wasn't here to do the normal +10, I decided to see how quickly she might have been dropping as she "usually" drops at the same speed from PMPS to +2 as she did from +10 to +12. She and Tobey were in the office with me while I did condos from PMPS to +2 and she was acting absolutely normal. So I assumed there was a strip problem when I got a "20" at +2. I got the other OT meter ....same number. So I got the Contour...21. Absolutely no signs of any fast dropping or hypo from her....none at all. I managed to get her up quickly but I think her liver also kicked in because she came up much faster than she normally does just from karo and her food.

Thankfully, Rosalie assured me that if she had not been exhibiting any symptoms of hypo like seizures, disorientation, etc etc...the long list, that she probably is just fine and she appears to be. She never acted anything but normal last night and on into today. I expected her to conk out and sleep as her numbers were coming up and she recovered from the 20 but she didn't even do that. She and Tobey were playing at bedtime. I expected her to bounce this hard (in fact, I was actually relieved to not see a higher number) and I expect she will probably have a solid six-cycle hard bounce.

I re-read info on hypoglycemia in cats last night and I also remember hearing Jill/Libby/Sienne say kitiies can be insulin sensitive when they have gone low like this and popped up so I reduced her dose again this morning. I don't normally give back-to-back reductions when I know a low number is probably shed action but I took into consideration that the last time she was on f1u (reduced from sk1.25u), she got into the 30s on the third cycle so combining that with possible insulin sensitivity, I felt it's safer to take her down another drop. Once she clears the bounce we can reassess the dose and take her back up to f1u if we need to but I think she has articulated she is DONE with sk1.25u. I have been wracking my brain to see if there was anything that I should have picked up on that would have led to this and the only thing I can think of is that I am not going to be able to shoot through the bounce on lev. This was the first time I have done it and I think I need to avoid it in the future especially when she got into the 30s when she earned the reduction. I never had this happen in all the times I shot through the bounce on lantus.

Thanks for taking the time to read this......perhaps it will help someone else although ECID and I don't want to scare anyone. Everyone knows Gracie dances her own dance to her own tune.....just wish I could figure out what that tune is!!! If anyone has any thoughts that would help us, I'd appreciate it very much. And my greatest thanks to Rosalie who helped keep me calm last night. Her knowledge of diabetes is really amazing and I am so thankful she was here for me.

Have a great day.

Re: 11/25 Gracie AMPS 374 +4 344

Holy CARP!! Great catch on the 20, thank goodness she didn't seem to suffer any symptoms from it! I can imagine how scary that must've been regardless. So glad Rosalie was around to help keep you calm. And look at that, another lesson learned - don't shoot thru her bounces on lev. Hope your T-Day was otherwise enjoyable, glad you and Mike are feeling better. Have a great day.

Re: 11/25 Gracie AMPS 374 +4 344

Oh Miss Gracie!!!! I'm so glad to see that you're fine- there is just no need to scare the pants off of your bean like that! Hoping for an uneventful few days!!!

Re: 11/25 Gracie AMPS 374 +4 344

Actually, I think we need a smilie whose eyes are actually popping out of their head! Gracie certainly earned that reduction, and the bounce too ;-)

Re: 11/25 Gracie AMPS 374 +4 344

I have been waiting for your condo and glad to know all is well. As for my knowledge of D, after almost 50 years I do know the disease in humans but kitties are a different matter and I trust you and others for the dosing advice. What is interesting, however, is that cats do have similar complications and issues and I am learning that as we all continue on this journey. I am so glad to be able to assist you and anyone here. I have been helped so much in so many ways.

Have a wonderful day. The weather is delightful, cool and sunny.

Re: 11/25 Gracie AMPS 374 +4 344

Good grief, this would have scared us to death! You handled it so well, and she is doing great!

Re: 11/25 Gracie AMPS 374 +4 344

Quite the night for you... and Gracie. Not too sure what to say, short of I'd be sure and wait this one out, a full six cycles before re-evaluating her dose. A 20 to me indicates way too much insulin. I've shot through bounces before, given this is with lantus, without any serious problems, and am uncertain as too how that plays our with Lev. IMHO - there's alot of ups and downs in dosing, alot of karo... I know Gracie dances to her own beat, but I think it might help her eliminate alot of this if there was a little more consistency on holding doses a little longer, let her level out, maybe then you could eliminate the variables in carbs fed, and especially the karo. IMHO totally, coming form someone who tends to be a more conservative doser. IMHO: I just think there is too much insulin here, and with that you can't get rid of the dives and corresponding bounces. I wish you guys luck - and hope that the new dose is the one. all the above is my opinion only, feel free to disagree with it.

You guys have done great with Gracie - outstanding job. Keep the faith - you will get there.

Re: 11/25 Gracie AMPS 374 +4 344

Whoa :shock: :shock: ...that is a serious drop. I'm so relieved to hear Gracie is OK, and didn't even notice anything was amiss. This is one big perpetual learning experience, that's for sure.

It sounds like you've got a great plan in place...Gracie is a lucky kitty to have you guys looking out for her!

Amy

Re: 11/25 Gracie AMPS 374 +4 344 +7 316

Hi Marje, I read Gracie's yesterday condo early this morning and was shocked to see she got a 20 and no hypo symptoms until Rosalie explained that some kitties don't exhibit symptoms. Your condo is always a learning experience. I know that must have been such a shock to see the 20 and then have the meters confirm it. Glad Rosalie was there and explained and calmed things. I think someone was looking out for Gracie for you to test her at +2! I know you and Gracie have that special and close bond, too. Have a nice day and scritches to Gracie and Tobes and Gus. Is Mr. Snake stull lurking around the premises?

Re: 11/25 Gracie AMPS 374 +4 344 +7 316

OH WOW! Holy carp! I'd have just fainted dead on the spot from fright! Glad Gracie is fine. We've all learned a lot from Miss Gracie but tell her she can quit teachin' now! This trick was too much for us old people. ;-)

BIG HUGE LOOOOOONG HUG Marje! I'll bet it added a few gray hairs.

Re: 11/25 Gracie AMPS 374 +4 344 +7 316

Thanks for the visits and support!!! It helps immensely!

Anne: I am also glad Rosalie was around.....she really helped me....I was extremely worried. Yes..another Gracie learning experience.

Gwen: No need at all!!! I'd like to see her come back down slowly and flatten back out so we'll see!!

Linda: Oh I would love that smilie!!!

Rosalie: Yes...kitties are different but still that knowledge is power. Thanks again for your help and wisdom....just talking to you was calming. It is a little breezy up here!!

Anne: Thanks.....she handled it well....it makes me wonder if she would have just come up on her own thanks to Mr. L but I wouldnt' leave that to chance.

Michelle: I do appreciate your thoughts. You are right that she evidently had way too much insulin on board but if you look at her numbers prior to the 31 on 11/23 pm cycle, she was not getting low. I've also never had a problem shooting through bounces so this is different. We actually have not used as much karo as we did on lantus....not nearly. Mostly when she is in the 40s except for one night when I was sick and Mike was gone and she gave me a 56 and I wanted her up a bit higher so I could try and rest. She has levelled out immensely on lev. She has been on it since Sept 6 and has only come down fast three times including last night. The other two, she came down less than 50 mg/dl/hour on one occasion and a little faster on the other but that was also when Teddi was sick and I think she was a little higher on BGs due to stress and then came down fast when I started a new pen. She is also not bouncing anywhere near the amount or as hard as on lantus. I did take to heart your suggestion before about letting her come down and trying to control her with food. I can't give her more than 10% carbs or it skyrockets her and I've learned gravy does the same. While she wasn't dropping fast, she just kept coming down and was not turning around with just the food. We tried this twice and she got to the low 40s with no response. Gracie has always been one to accumulate carbs before they finally set in but allowing her to continue to drop into the low 40s after 1-1/2 hours of giving her 10% with no response....we decided the karo was needed. We have really been trying to keep her above 50 with food as much as we can to help keep her level and 10% carbs is still LC....we more often use 6-8%. In terms of dosing consistency....she was on 1.25u for 41 cycles and petered out. Jill suggested we add a drop (probably only for a cycle or two) to get her going....and it worked. She started coming back down the dosing scale fast but was still on 1.25u again for 12 cycles before she earned a reduction. She was then on sk1.25u for 17 cycles before she earned the next reduction. She then earned two reductions within 7 cycles. I asked for thoughts and whether we should still shave her reductions or take her down by .25u. Libby responded on our condo that she felt Gracie was "not there yet" on needing a .25u reduction but if she started earning them every 1-2 cycles, then it would be time. Gracie got down to 1u and did ok but then started hanging out in yellow and then pink...after 10 cycles, I asked for dosing thoughts and Sienne said she felt Gracie needed more insulin and that if she didn't show some action on the 11th cycle, to take her up....so I did. You are also right that too much insulin does cause dives and bounces and we've been trying to respond by taking the reductions without shooting through the bounces...except yesterday. If I hadn't shot through the bounce, her shed would have drained. But never having had a problem with shooting through the bounce before....well.....I didn't anticipate this.

Amy: Every day we learn something new don't we. I have my patience pants on....will not raise her before she clears the bounce completely.

Ann: I spoke with the vet this morning who at first was amazed Gracie had no symptoms until I reminded her that I was using a human glucometer. She said that while low, if we assume the 20 was around 50 on an AT, that she would expect Gracie to be ok but good that I got her up quickly. Yes...someONE was looking out for--yes we have a bond but I wasn't getting any telepathy from Gracie ;-) ;-) Mr. Snake....long gone!

Lyresa: Yes...she can quit teaching those lessons. It was definitely a heart stopper, breath catcher esp when I retested with two other meters and got the same thing. Oddly enough, I didn't feel scared....I just knew what I had to do....I was just worried about residual effects.

Hope you are all having a great afternoon. Miss Gracie is taking a nap....wish I could join her!

Re: 11/25 Gracie AMPS 374 +4 344 +7 316

You had a busy night. I'm glad Gracie came up for you. Tuffy loved to visit the 20's and 30s on the AT and the ReliOn but she remained asymptomatic during all her dives. We don't know what their normal BG is because we never tested prior to the dx of diabetes. Hope she levels out for you soon. I never tried karo, she over reacted to HC so I just kept feeding small amounts of LC and restesting. This is so much fun. We all learn from others experiences.

Re: 11/25 Gracie AMPS 374 +4 344 +7 316

Re: 11/25 Gracie AMPS 374 +4 344 +7 316

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Wow, I'm glad you caught that 20 last night and I'm glad Gracie is ok. I definitely agree that it's time for a reduction. Reducing by a drop might not be enough in this case, so stay on top of her numbers (I know you will).

Re: 11/25 Gracie AMPS 374 +4 344 +7 316

Marje, I'm glad Gracie and you are doing fine from last night. Yikes. Big hugs!
Liz

Re: 11/25 Gracie AMPS 374 +4 344 +7 316

(((Marje))) I am glad that all is well with Gracie. I know what a scare you had. I remember once when Bear Man was a 1.1 on my Canadian meter (multiplied by 18 = 19.8, confirmed with a second test). He was sound asleep. I had just awakened him by chance to get a random test. I remember the feeling very well, thinking that he could very well have continued to sleep and never woken up again. You are doing an amazing job with Gracie.

Re: 11/25 Gracie AMPS 374 +4 344 +7 316

Wow Marje. If 20 popped up on Jetta's meter, someone would need to give ME Karo :lol: :lol: Way to go on bringing her back up. Jetta's the same way as far as no warning signs. Her lowest was a 31 one night at 1.5 and she was sitting in bed, having a good bath and trotted to her testing room like any other night. ECID for sure. ANyway, I hope she clears this bounce nicely and you get the dosing figured out. I watch Gracie with much interest given Jetta's fondness for diving, I often wonder how Jetta would fare on Lev vs. Lantus.

Re: 11/25 Gracie AMPS 374 +4 344 +7 316

Despite the palpitating heart you handled last night like a pro! I think Gracie just needs to drain that shed a little, I agree w/ Michelle, Gracie seems to need a little longer to clear bounces. I know the standard is 6 cycles, but ECID and Gracie certainly is the gold standard for that observation. Here's hoping the bounce doesn't last as long as you fear. At least tonight you can get some good sleep.

Re: 11/25 Gracie AMPS 374 +4 344 +7 316

Barbara: I also don't know what Gracie's at-home BG was before she was FD but because she likes the lower numbers like Tuffy, I wonder if she was on the lower end of the spectrum.

Celi: No kidding.

Libby: I reduced her twice back-to-back....a drop last night and then another drop this morning. Once she clears the bounce, we will absolutely stay on top of her BG and take her down another drop if we need to....back to the 1u. Thanks for checking in!!!

Liz: yes...all are doing fine, thank you!!!!

Linda: Thanks, Linda.

You are doing an amazing job with Gracie.

Click to expand...

I needed that.. When she does something like last night, I tend to wrack my brain for anything I could/should have done differently to prevent it. I'm sure you were also very worried with a number like that and I think I would have been really freaked if Gracie had been asleep....at least she was up, awake, etc.

Thank you all for checking in on Gracie today. She's doing well...napping with Tobey right now and flat ___________

Re: 11/25 Gracie AMPS 374 +4 344 +7 316 +10 317

I was wondering what those pink numbers were all about. Great catch. Scary, but great.

Re: 11/25 Gracie AMPS 374 +4 344 +7 316 +10 317

Just stopping by with another hug....you done good MamaBean....

Re: 11/25 Gracie PMPS 243

Looks like I cross posted with a few folks!! Sorry. I posted a +10 of 317 but the strip filled oddly....the bottom edge of it away from the meter was not filled ; if this happens when she is lower, I always retest in five minutes and typically find that the test with the unfilled strip was higher by 30-40 mg/dl and I confirm it with a simultaneous test with my backup OT. So I think her +10 was probably lower. I just thought a that high of a number, I'd save a strip. Tonight, I am getting a +1 because even if she was 30-40 mg/dl lower, she still dropped.

Jaclyn: if she hadn't been so durn low and I didn't know how long it would take her to come up, I'd have been drinking heavily which is saying alot for someone who rarely drinks!! This is a rare thing for Gracie and the lev has made all the difference in the world for her.

Ann: well she's now two drops less than she was yesterday morning when I shot through the bounce. I get five drops between 1.25u and 1u. Hmmm....interesting on the bounce cycles because I don't see that and I know Sienne said last week the reason why she thought the 1u was not enuff insulin was because Gracie clears her bounces faster than that. I do think it might take her a lot longer to kick into a dose...I definitely agree with that. So perhaps what looks like taking longer to clear a bounce is actually taking longer to settle into a dose....and I haven't been as patient as I should with that. No doubt. And...she seems to be coming down from the high numbers today.....

Sienne: thanks...yes, heart stopping. The upside is you thought it was weird for Gracie to have pink numbers

Lyresa: Big hugs back to you and thank you. You are so wonderful...as is everyone here with their great thoughts and support.

Re: 11/25 Gracie PMPS 243

Hi Marje, I left the board last night to watch TV (!) and so missed Gracie's dramatic adventure. Nice catch! I hope that the reduced dose will work for Gracie. Interesting about the shooting through the bounce not working with Lev. I have never shot through a bounce, either with Stu (on Lantus) or with Rusty (on Lev). It just seemed to be counterproductive, since they had earned the reduction. But then again I do not try to figure out these processes scientifically, I just try to observe and then go with my gut and hope for the best!!

Anyway, we are very glad that Gracie is fine and hope that you all will have a more restful night tonight!

Scritches to Gracie and Tobey (and Gus, too). Glad to hear you and Mike are feeling better.

Ella & Rusty

OMG!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: @-) I wasnt around today, but what a night!!! You did great as usual, and I never fear for Gracie with you two.....
Glad you were able to control it all & Gracie is bouncing today--
You're a good bean there Miss Marje!! Great Great Catch!
It is true that Barb's Tuffy has those crazy low numbers often..
ECID--And Gracie is one of a kind!!! Hugs & Love from us!