HELP! Transitioning from dry to wet food

Good Morning!
So Sushi's appetite has decreased. He's eaten half of what he normally does since late Thursday night. And his sides feel like they're caving in. :?

I posted a big ole reply at almost 12am to yesterday's condo. Here it is:

 

Re: 8/7 Sushi: AMPS 309 | +3~304

...also posted this yesterday:

 

Re: 8/7 Sushi: AMPS 309 | +3~304

Roommate: Last question first... I think a lot will depend on the size of the place your friend has. You and she will need to agree on a plan to integrate your cats. Initially, you will need to keep Sushi separated from her cats. If this is possible, it should be fine. You will need to gradually introduce the cats first by smell, then sight and then with supervised visits. Pam Johnson-Bennett is a feline behaviorist and has a good book available on integrating cats into a household.

Shot times/skipping: Every situation with shot times is different. The general rule is do what you can to shoot every 12 hours. You have a little bit of flex with that timing but not a lot. Any time you need to move a shot time, you need to remember that the next shot will be in 12 hours. So, if you get home 5 hours late, you can certainly shoot but the problem will be that your next shot will be 12 hours later. That next shot may not be at a time that is feasible for your schedule. This leaves you with the only other alternative -- skipping the shot. Shot times can be adjusted either 15 min. per shot or 30 min. once a day without having a big effect on the shed.

Ketones: Most of us routinely test for ketones. If you've had a sick kitty, it's especially important to test for ketones. (Infection + not eating + not enough insulin/high numbers = a recipe for ketones.) If your cat is recently recovering from an episode of DKA, you want to test for ketones daily or as often as you can given that some cats are not happy about you stalking them to the litter box. You also want to test if you notice any behavioral changes (e.g., lethargy, not eating) or you notice the smell of acetone/alcohol on your cat's breath. If you do notice this, it's very likely that ketone levels are higher than you want. Ketones can develop quickly and can be lethal to say nothing about expensive to treat since it's usually a situation where your cat needs to be treated on an ICU. Trace ketones can usually be dealt with at home. Anything beyond trace requires emergency veterinary intervention. If your cat doesn't have a history of ketones, testing once a week is probably fine.

Lab report: Pancreatitis can destroy the beta cells in the pancreas. It's these cells that produce insulin and as a result, your cat develops diabetes. Pancreatitis is an incredibly painful illness. Cats, unlike humans, are very good at compartmentalizing their pain and as a result, you may not notice their discomfort until there are marked behavioral changes like not eating. When a cat doesn't eat or doesn't consume enough calories, they can develop a condition called hepatic lipidosis (i.e. "fatty liver" disease). If this is bad, they can go into liver failure. ALT is Alanine Transferase -- a liver enzyme. In and of itself, it is not diagnostic for a liver problem. While it is present in the liver, it's also in red blood cells and striated muscle cells. Damage to any of these cells can cause an elevation in ALT. Basically, what this looks like to me is that Sushi was one sick kitty. Like my cat, Sushi was diagnosed with pancreatitis, hepatic lipidosis, and diabetes at the same time. The pancreatitis caused the diabetes and the not eating because of the pancreatitis caused the hepatic lipidosis. All of this in combination would have contributed to the development of DKA. It's a domino effect.

 

Re: 8/7 Sushi: AMPS 309 | +3~304

I think you need to stop looking at all the obstacles in front of you & start to take one thing at one time!
You are totally overwhelmed right now & you need to look at the immediate instead of at the whole picture.
You dont need to quote everyone every time you post--We can see what was written..just by going through your condo that day.
It is OK to skip a shot, but you must expect the BG to go up a bit..Shooting early can lower bg, shooting late will produce a little increase in bg...So please prepare yourself.
We all help each other here..Try to take one thing at a time, and also LOOK, Sushi's numbers are lower today than yesterday ! That's good.You can do this!
If you are between jobs, why cant you be there to do a nice regular schedule for Sushi, and for yourself?
Then try to set up what will be comfortable for both of you?--You need to start on a solid base, then get on a workable pattern.
Just to let you know, many of us work & are able to care for our FD cats-It does take some sacrifice & devotion and I think you love Sushi very much! So dont look at the whole picture right now.
It just becomes part of your life after a while..I think you will be just fine!

 

Re: 8/7 Sushi: AMPS 309 | +3 304 | +5 263 | +6 318

Guess who I just caught grooming himself!?!?!?!?!?!?!? :razz:

 

Re: 8/7 Sushi: AMPS 309 | +3~304

I see tons of fabulous answers to your questions from Sienne and Roni , all from hands on experience.

Regarding ketone testing, being that Black Kitty had 2 episodes of DKA , when BKs BGs where high (High 300 +), sometimes I tested several times a day . Once things simmered down for us, I would just check weekly. I recommend that you note those tests/results on Sushis ss. I have them marked in BKs ss; I just placed the results in the cell appropriate to the day/time I tested. That way I could get a quicker picture at a glance.

:?: What did you decide about transitioning Sushi to wet? Did you start? That right there can result in a need for less insulin so you'll need to closely monitor. Hopefully someone who has gone through the dry to wet transition will come along.

Like Roni said take one thing at a time.

Then see what unfolds

 

Re: 8/7 Sushi: AMPS 309 | +3 304 | +5 263 | +6 318

WOOT!!! on the grooming! You know he is feeling better when he starts going back to normal habits.

Roni is Right. The only way to deal w/ all this is one thing at a time. Until you actually are commuting back and forth set you schedule and stick with it. Worry about the new schedule when it is time to change.

You are transitioning to wet food as well. Once that is accomplished you will see many other changes in Sushi which will require other readjustments. Take them as they come.

 

Re: 8/7 Sushi: AMPS 309 | +3 304 | +5 263 | +6 318

HOORAY FOR GROOMING!!!!

 

8/7 Sushi: +6 318 | +9 333 | PMPS 379

I know!!! It wasn't anything too extensive, but I did catch him in the act!

Wow THANK YOU for all of this great information!!!!
I'm starting to feel a bit more like myself again for the first time this week. Testing has gone better today and Sushi is in a sweet, tolerant mood. I think (and hope!) the dust is starting to settle. *sigh o relief!*

"Roommate: Last question first... I think a lot will depend on the size of the place your friend has."
We are looking for a 3 BR/2 Bath place. It will be the two of us and 4 cats (we each have 2). What do you think?

"If you are between jobs, why cant you be there to do a nice regular schedule for Sushi, and for yourself? Then try to set up what will be comfortable for both of you?"
The inconsistency of my schedule wasn't/isn't due so much to my job as it is me travelling back to Baton Rouge at least once a week.

"What did you decide about transitioning Sushi to wet? Did you start? That right there can result in a need for less insulin so you'll need to closely monitor. Hopefully someone who has gone through the dry to wet transition will come along."
I haven't made a decision yet. I feel I need to research the transition process a bit more before I make a decision. I just scoured my history to find links and advice given thus far. Just printed "Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition" - everything you need to know about proper nutrition and lots more from Lisa A. Pierson, DVM. to read next. Let me read it and I'm sure I'll have questions. I'd love to make a decision tonight.
But I suppose I've already started the transition? Sushi seems to be eating 1/4c to 7/16c of dry food, and I've been giving him about 1oz of canned in treats after I test PER 12 HRS. So that's about 1/2c to 7/8c of dry & 2 oz of canned a day? It's a step?

Be back soon! : )

 

Okay, I read both "Feeding Your Cat: Know The Basics of Feline Nutrition" & "Feline Diabetes" by Dr. Lisa ("Tips for Transitioning" link didn't work). I did pick up a few extra tidbits, but you guys have basically told me everything already! And I also didn't find a whole lot about an actual plan or guidelines for transitioning from dry to wet food.

So, yes, I have questions, and I need help making a plan!

How much canned food should I feed?
"The average cat should eat 4-6 ounces of canned food per day"
The 5.5oz cans I have of 9 Lives say "Feed an adult 6-8 lb. cat one can twice a day." Sushi is at least twice that weight. So should I feed him 2 cans twice a day / 4 cans a day?
Another brand I looked at at the store said 1oz to 1lb. Based on that we could go with 3 cans / 16.5oz a day? I feed him about 1c (16oz) of dry now, so we're basically making an even swap?
...cats should "consume at least 15 calories per pound per day. This number is figured on lean body weight, not fat weight."
I'm going to say our range should be 15lbs/225 calories - 17lbs/255 calories.
Each can has ~160 calories each. He should only have about 2 cans based on our calorie goal. It's not adding up!

Losing Weight
"A cat should never lose more than 1-2% of his body weight per week - preferably closer to 1%."
Of lean body weight or fat weight? How do you ensure that?

Dosage
"If you change your diabetic cat's diet to one with lower carbohydrates, he will, in all probability, IMMEDIATELY (not days or weeks later) require a reduction in his insulin dosage."
I get that, but I don't get HOW. Do you start back over at 1u/dose? What would you recommend based on Sushi's numbers so far?
You all have stressed how important it is that I keep Sushi's dosage consistent. Is that still the case here?
"Every case is different and definitive recommendations with respect to how far to lower the insulin dosage (when you start the diet change) cannot be given without knowing the specifics of each case. There are many crucial factors to be considered:"
- carbohydrate content of the original: Hills dry m/d - 16%
- carbohydrate content of the new diet: 9 Lives canned - 5% or below
- how fast the change to a low carb diet is made: I have 5 days until I have a major blip in my schedule where I'll be gone from 1pm Saturday - around 9am Sunday (our doses are given at 5:30am/pm)
- how carb 'sensitive' the cat's body is: ?
- how quickly the cat's body responds to the decrease in carbs: ?
- how the cat, in general, reacts to insulin: Can this be gained from our SS yet?
- has the cat ever been positive for ketones in his urine: yes
- current dosage of insulin: 10u/day
- current blood glucose levels of the patient: see our SS

Thank youuuuuu!!

 

One more question:
Are you supposed to put uneaten canned food in the fridge? :?

 

Since your cat has a history of fatty liver you must make sure he/she maintains their weight so their liver won't take a hit and start the fatty liver cycle. Maverick also had a history of fatty liver and almost died from it. I had to syringe feed him to ensure he was eating enough. He wasn't on insulin at the time - controlled with the switch to wet food. The only way to know if you are feeding enough is to get an accurate scale. If you are in the US you can get a shipping scale that measures to the ounce or better quite cheaply with free shipping often on ebay. I bought a baby scale when Maverick was recovering from FHL. Weighing him caught his diabetes before other symptoms showed up.

Every single cat is different just like every human is. A 5.5oz can is a good guideline. Maverick was 15lbs and ate more than this but he was sedentary also due to arthritis. A scale is the only way you can monitor accurately. A human scale won't cut it.

 

If you are looking for a 3 bedroom apartment, it should be possible to alternate keeping one pair of cats in a bedroom until you are able to get them to integrate.

This is a formula to determine calories per day: Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70
For a cat that weighs between 15 - 17 lbs, the calorie range would be 274 - 301 calories per day. This formula is generous with respect to caloric intake. The best way to determine if your cat is loosing too much (or gaining too much) weight is to weigh the cat. You need a baby scale.

Usually a cat's numbers will tell us if a change in diet is effecting BG levels. Sometimes, we will suggest dropping the dose in larger amounts than recommended by the dosing protocol if the change in food is causing large drops in numbers. Given your situation with not being home, it may make more sense to start over at 1.0u. However, health issues need to be taken into consideration. In a cat with a history of ketones, lowering dose too quickly can be problematic.

Ashley -- I think you want hard and fast answers or "rules." The only rule in these parts is that Every Cat is Different (ECID). Much of what we look at are patterns. We do our best to use the dosing protocol as a guideline but there are often situations where judgement trumps the protocol. With food, there's not any means of answering all of your questions other than sometimes you just need to take a leap. Most of the recommendations about transitioning from dry to canned food are written from the standpoint of someone having a cat that is a dry food junkie. It can be difficult to get a cat that is addicted to kibble to accept canned food. If you can switch Sushi to canned AND be testing to insure numbers aren't dropping, great. If not, then make the transition slowly. No one can tell you what to do since you're the only one who knows the limitations your schedule imposes.

 

Hi! Thanks for your answers.

I feel like I need to at least know how much canned food Sushi should be eating before I make the switch. It looks like it should be between 2 and 4 cans (5.5oz) a day, but that's too broad of a range IMO. Can anyone help me here? Or maybe I'm just not getting it?

Also, should I refrigerate leftover canned food or is it okay to leave it room temp?

 

good morning,
I have time to answer this one!

remember: ECID

we use to put it in fridge (sealed) it got silly, and too cold.
We go thru 2 cans a day, it gets used up fast enough there is no risk of leaving it out on counter, as long as its properly sealed.
My non diabetic actually got pukey eating cold food, and I've heard, it can upset tummies.
So depending on your cats sensitivity, you will see for yourself overtime.

EDIT: It's probably a good idea not to store leftover cat food in it's original can, transfer it to a plastic or even better, glass sealed container.