3/5 Trixie AMPS 354 +2.75 246 +6 147 +8 161 +10 186 PMPS 252

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Amy&TrixieCat

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Yesterday's Condo:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=38087

I think I understand what happens during a bounce, but can someone explain it to me, just be sure I know what exactly is going on?

Even though yesterday's conversation with the vet included a dose increase to .75, we've been holing her at .5, just to see how things go. So I'm assuming today's big pink is a big bounce. Does that mean I should wait at least several more days before attempting an increase?

Thanks!!!

Amy
 
Re: 3/5 Trixie AMPS 354 - Bounce Questions

Good morning!

when cats first start on insulin, when their numbers go low, their livers freak out, think something is wrong, and dump a bunch of sugar into their blood systems. basically the liver is used to high numbers being "normal." The result is that the bg #s will spike.

It can take up to 72 hours for these bounces to clear. gradually, the liver becomes used to lower numbers, and the spikes will be fewer and fewer, and when the do happen, they will become less dramatic.

i've got no advice on the dose... others will hopefully be along shortly!

hope that helps!
 
Re: 3/5 Trixie AMPS 354 - Bounce Questions

About the pink, I don't think it's a bounce.
You were giving 1u as the dose then dropped a full .5u for a decrease which is a pretty large drop when you are at a 1u dose.... it's basically cutting the dose in half.
So once the bit of a shed drained, you ended up with a dose that was too little.
I think going to a .75u dose would be great.

About bounces, here's a picture for you.
Often, one does not know how long their cat has been diabetic, so it could well be that the cat's used to the higher BG and those are the numbers that feel 'right'. Think of the temp of the water in the tropics.
Owner comes along and tests, gives insulin, and those higher BG numbers, that were feeling just fine TUVM, are changed into some lower BG numbers, and cat's body goes HUH? Something is wrong here! Where is my tropical waters? I am all of a sudden finding myself in waters the temp as off the coast of Alaska! This water is like a polar bear swim! YIKES!
Cat's body goes WHOA! Too low! ..... and scoots back on up into the 'right numbers'.... those pink numbers.

Have you ever gone to the beach and stuck your toe in the water and pulled it back out because it was too cold? Same thing here. Eventually, though, you put your foot back into the water and you are more prepared, know what to expect and each time, it's better, not so cold, yes?

The last picture is a ball. Think of a bouncing ball where each bounce becomes less and less high, until at the end, it's just rolling nicely along the ground where it should be.... no more bounces.

You may see the odd dip into better numbers, but then a zoom up again. That's OK because now you know that your cat CAN get into those lower numbers, and with time, your cat will 'visit' those numbers more often and will stick around in those numbers for longer stretches of time until one day, you will get a pink and think.... wow, I can't remember the last time we got a pink.

You are giving pancreas&liver time to heal and not have to work so hard. As the healing progresses, the pancreas&liver won't need as much help and maybe one day, will be able to work on its own without the help of your giving insulin.

And that's how I see bounces.
 
Re: 3/5 Trixie AMPS 354 - Bounce Questions

Good morning guys .. well I can't explain bounces any better then the previous posts so I will just say come on down trixie! have a great day guys!
 
Re: 3/5 Trixie AMPS 354 - Bounce Questions

Gayle provided the picturesque explanation of a bounce. On the more technical side, the body has a protective mechanism to guard against low BG levels. If numbers either are low or a drop in BG is too quick, this automatic protective response is triggered. What occurs is that the glucose sensor system in the central nervous system triggers the release of glucagon which in turn prompts the liver to release glucose and, in addition, other counterregulatory hormones (e.g., epinephrine, cortisol, growth hormone) are released all of which elevate BG levels. It can take up to 72 hours for the bounce to clear. It's helpful to keep in mind that this is a normal and protective process -- even thought it's rather annoying!

As your cat's body becomes more used to lower numbers, the liver will overreact less and less. We refer to this as Liver Training School (LTS).
 
Re: 3/5 Trixie AMPS 354 +2.75 246 - Dosing question?

Thanks for the bounce definition. I basically had it down, but you guys further clarified it for me.

So today she obviously dropped pretty quickly on the .5unit dose this morning. I'm at work, but hubby will get a +6 today, to see where she's at.

I was just wondering what the general consensus was...should we hold at the .5 for a few more days, or go with the .75 starting tonight? I will be home all day tomorrow, so I can monitor on a very regular basis. I'm still unsure as to which direction we should go.

Thanks again - you're all life-savers!

Amy
 
Re: 3/5 Trixie AMPS 354 +2.75 246 - Dosing question?

If it were me, I'd raise the dose, especially since you're going to be home.

(Also, can you adjust the color of the 246 on your SS. You have it as a green when it's a yellow!!)
 
Re: 3/5 Trixie AMPS 354 +2.75 246 - Dosing question?

Thanks...two votes for an increase, so an increase it is.

SS is fixed - I was in a mad dash this morning!

Amy
 
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