2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS/PM BG 85=NS/cytology report-help!

morning all,
yes another tough night...with the bupe in place he really doesn't eat much and i don't sleep much...

yesterday viewtopic.php?f=9&t=35798

Jen, i do understand what you are saying on yesterday's post...i'm literally drained and yes this is affecting me like nothing in the past...that said...i have made up my mind that if Rocket's QOL is not there then i think it's time to say good bye to him even though this breaks my heart just typing it out....

i will await the results on both tests, i will give it a go on the prednidosole and ask how long after the treatment starts should i see results...if i don't see any then i will take him off the med and decide the next step...

Marjorie, you asked in previous posts if i have anyone that can come help me...like relatives or friends...well....NO...friends work and have their own lives with their children (most of my friends have young kids) and i see them once a year if that...main communication is the phone...but that's as far as keeping in touch goes...as per relatives...my folks and my family live in another city...my DH's family some live here but again they work and can't help.....so i'm pretty limited as to who can do the caring for Rocket...i'm his 100% caregiver...and since i don't have a job i can't afford the expense of getting one of the vet techs from the clinic to come even for one day...they're expensive....they charge me for each Rx piece of paper i get for Rocket let alone something like that....i simply can't do it...

i'm venting and i'm sorry if i am...

i assume his AM BG 88 is due to the bupe...i don't know anymore...and frankly i can't keep up with anything anymore...

yes i'm really drained and it is taking a toll on a lot of things...but i have made a promise to him...i will give it a go to the LAST treatment and see where that takes us...i need to do this for him and for me...as i keep saying...i want NO REGRETS....and as much as it tears me apart see that the original illness is actually the more stable, complications do arise and most of the kitties in the CRF group die not from CRF but from complications of other illnesses....

so in a nutshell...i feel i need to do it even if i put my life on hold...financially this is breaking me but i'm already oh so broken emotionally....because i wished i knew what changed...in him....he was doing sooooooo good with everything he had going...the down turn started when he came off remission....things have gone down hill from there....so yes...it has been a long time...Nov6/10 to be exact...

i've reached out to this group and you guys have been a great support system...i'm forever thankful....

many of you have pm me and i keep telling you guys...i'm very religious i believe there is a purpose in all that i'm going thru with him...i don't see it yet...i'm in the valley and this valley is oh so forever deep and i'm not sure how i will get out of it...but i trust in God that whatever he is trying to teach me that i will accept it...sometimes i think being out of work has allowed me to give Rocket the care he truly needs...so even though we are hurting financially i have spent time with him...and i will forever cherish those moments and i don't want to remember the last moments....as that is not Rocket...

my beloved Rocket

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS

Claudia

Ending his suffering when it is time is the ultimate gift. Prolonging another's life for our own purposes is not a gift... While extremely tough to consider, all of us at FDMB support the decision to help our pets leave when it is time. Nobody would want you to prolong his life unnecessarily. Hopefully over the next bit you'll get enough information on which to base your decision. Meanwhile, you've done what you can, now its time for a little break...especially while the weather has eased up.

Jen

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS

You do need to relax--If you are stressed & upset, he will be too--You need to try to relax around Rocket, They SO pick up our anxiety--I know this fron the beginning here when I was trying to BG test & shoot Moonie--I was afraid, she was afraid, I got upset she got upset, so all it did was make us both in a panic state!! Couldnt do it for months & all she did was hide--Till I was told here relax & try to go about your daily life & she would relax--It worked!
You are treating Him with the love & respect we all have for our babies--You are doing all you can, B UT you must have some semblance of a life!!
You need to go out & DO some normal things, I do know what you are going through..Went through something similar with a couple of my furbabies(dogs) and it was an ordeal..Hopefully Rocket will improve & maybe even get back to himself...We are all behind you!!

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS

You have lots of love, prayers, wishes and hugs from all of us on FMDB. I wish I could meet Rocket in real life. Sending more hugs for you two. (((((((Claudia and Rocket))))))))

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS

Claudia, I have no answers, just remember how much we all care and support you in whatever decision you make. Our hearts are breaking for you.

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS

I will definitely be keeping you and Rocket in my prayers...

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS

Will continue to pray for you and Rocket! And whatever decision you make, we here know that it will be the best one for Rocket.. As you have always, and continue to do the best by him! You are a great Mom! You made me teary with your condo, and I know that you are going through an extremely tough time emotionally, physically, mentally...Enjoy your time with Rocketman best you can...And as we have all said, FDMB is here to support you in whatever way we can...
Many thoughts and hugs to you both! Continued prayers!

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS

I couldn't agree more.. the pain & suffering seems to go on & on for you & Rocket both.. everyday :YMSIGH:
My thoughts & prayers are with you both & hope he makes a turn around & if not, that you have the strength to let him be in peace. :YMHUG:
You are an amazing woman & have done everything that can be done to date.

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS

well things just got even more complicated...

the IM vet called and the cytology done yesterday shows a possibility of pancreatic cancer...inconclusive for some things and not a real dx of cancer...that said the only other option is to open him up and take a piece to determine for sure if indeed is cancer...

financially i can't do it....physically/emotionally for Rocket...i can't put him thru that...and they won't treat him with chemo as it is not a certainty on the dx....

so the options are dwingling here...i will do the full week of the bupe and see how that goes...then i'm to call back to give a report on him....then he will probably start the pred...i asked how long until i see it's working...she said a week but to beware of his glucose will be shot thru the roof...and if i don't see an improvement as i said...i will decide then...

i asked if he indeed had cancer how long until i see ACTUAL signs it's progressing...and what to look for...she said constant vomiting, no appetite, lethargic....and she said it tends to progress fast and QOL no longer there...said could be 2 months up to 6 months....

i can't tell you how devastating this is....i'm optimistic still or maybe in denial that he doesn't have it....he is not showing and has never shown the TYPICAL signs for ANY of the illnesses he's been dx with....

so again...i have to think of HIM....

he seems relaxed with the bupe...came out (i got him out of the tub) for a bit...and he slept really well (1 hr) on the coffee table...walking around no problem...took him out in the hallway for a bit...eating not so well...a few licks here and there of baby food mixed with reg food...

i just called the clinic asking for a copy of the cytology report...since they don't want to fax or email it...i will go tonight to pick it up...i need to know exactly what's in there....even if it's all greek to me...perhaps i can scan it and get someone with experience in it to weigh in on it...

heading off to chat with the pancreatitis group and see what sort of input they have for me....

thanks Karrie for calling....much appreciated...

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS/possibility of pancreatitis cance

I was more worried about you than Rocket. I know from talking with you, you do have things in perspective, but are overwhelmed. You don't have support around you and are doing it alone. This group is a great sounding board and source of emotional support. I know you know Rocket more than anyone in this whole world and I'm with you about not wanting him to suffer. I trust I will know that day when it comes for Nike and Maverick. I knew that day when it was my father. No more wishing for one more day, instead praying for a quick and safe journey.

I do echo what everyone says, you need to also treat yourself as you treat Rocket. You need to eat and sleep to be well. FMDB orders.

Sending more hugs Claudia. Hope he enjoyed his hallway adventure today.

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS/possibility of pancreatitis cance

(((Claudia))) I am so sorry to read this, but as you said it wasn't a confirmed diagnosis. I'm glad you are going to give the bupe and the pred a try. I think you have to give Rocket a chance to see if it will work. After that, you will know if its going to work and if Rocket is enjoying life. My prayers are with you and Rocket. I hope you start to see improvement very soon.

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS/possibility of pancreatic cancer

Sent you a PM, Claudia. You and Rocket are in my thoughts and prayers. ((hug))

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS/possibility of pancreatic cancer

Tucker's on a very high dose of Prednisolone and I don't consider his numbers to be through the roof. He takes 1U of Lev BID, today's AM PS 306, that was higher than usual, he's usually high 200s preshot. You can work around the steroid, it's not that bad. Before pred his dose of Lev was 1/2U BID.

For Tucker we saw results within 3 days, I know that for a fact because it was a Friday afternoon we started the steroids, I was told to take him home that weekend, enjoy him and on Monday my vet was going to come in on her day off and help him to the Bridge. Sunday night he turned around.

Same thing with his last episode, within a couple of days he improved. Sending tons of hugs and healing vibes your way.

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS/possibility of pancreatic cancer

Just sending hugs and healing vines your way, Claudia.

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS/possibility of pancreatic cancer

just now seeing this news I am so sorry ((((Claudia)))) and ((((Rocket)))))

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS/possibility of pancreatic cancer

(((Claudia))): Just letting you know we are all here to listen and offer empathy, caring, and support.

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS/possibility of pancreatic cancer

Claudia, please let me repeat here, what I posted in our condo today (I know how hard it is to get to read any other condos, when your cat is so very sick...)

Our thoughts are with you, Claudia and Rocket. I hope you can (both) get some relief. Claudia, believe me, I shall not soon forget how you (somehow) found the time to come and give us your encouragement, during our dark times. Means a lot - and I hope that you, likewise, will take comfort and strength from all the support here in LL...

Perry & Sooty

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS/possibility of pancreatic cancer

Hi (((Claudia))) and (((Rocket))),

I'm sorry, I just read thru your condo. We feel things in our gut. I certainly think having hope and providing a good qaulity of life is ok. I'm not sure what to say or do either. We'll just do the best we can.

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS/possibility of pancreatic cancer

(((((((Claudia))))))) Rocket himself will let you know if and when it is his time to go. There will be no mistaking his intent. I learned this with Stu, and, before him, with Alice. Listen to your Rocket and support him in his decision. Whatever his decision is, and however it plays out, he will always be with you.
We continue to think positive thoughts for Rocket and for you. (((Claudia & Rocket)))

Many hugs,

Ella & Rusty

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS/possibility of pancreatic cancer

(((Claudia))) I will continue to keep you and Rocket in my thoughts and prayers. Keep optimistic about the Pred - his BG may not shoot through the roof. If it goes up, there are people here who can guide you through safely raising his insulin dose to compensate.

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS/possibility of pancreatic cancer

So sorry to read about the tough time you and Rocket are having. I know how hard it is. I'll be praying for you.

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS/possibility of pancreatic cancer

It sounds like people here are giving you some good thoughts about the pred and I hope you may see some positive results with Rocket if you start him on it. I hope you can find some peace tonight and that you and Rocket will both get a little sleep (or more than a little sleep -- hoping and praying for it...).

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS/possibility of pancreatic cancer

(((((((CLAUDIA & ROCKET))))))--Just dont give up hope just yet...Let's see how this plays out. I know it keeps getting worse & worse, but there is still a possibility that the pred will help & you can have some quality time with him...My heart hurts for you and this difficult situation..Loving hugs to comfort you!

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS/PM BG 85=NS

don't know how i'm gonna get thru this with Rocket once his BG levels go up with the pred....he trembles oh so much whenever i test him now...i even want to stop testing but i know i need to know where he is at....

PM BG=85 no shot

he slept by the entrance of the spare room the rest of the afternoon...i placed a blanket on top of him....he was trembling a lil bit...

he ate well at +9.5 finally....and now at PM BG he nibbled a lil bit...all meds in place and the bupe in 2 hrs...

i feel like i'm really having a bad nightmare and i can't wake up....

DH wants me to go out for a bite to eat...so i will be back home to give the bupe....

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS/PM BG 85=NS

Yes, go out with DH for a nice dinner. :YMHUG:

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS/PM BG 85=NS

Go out and tell your husband you love him and appreciate him. Hang in there Claudia.

I don't know if its the same for cats but if humans are dealing with pain, all of their pain receptors can become super sensitive. When I was dealing with chronic migraines, getting blood taken was extremely painful and I still fear it. What wouldn't normally be painful was. So maybe the consistent bupe dose will mellow this out also.

((((Claudia, Rocket))))

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS/PM BG 85=NS

I'm so sorry about Rocket. My cat was taking Prednisolone for his cancer as I remember, and it did make him feel better and gave more quality life. Hang in there and go have a bite out with your husband. My heart and prayers go out to you and Rocket.

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS/PM BG 85=NS

i picked up the cytology report....i will ask the health board to read it and let me know what they make of it....but i'm posting it here as to keep the same condo going...

Cytology:
SOURCE: Pancreas/pancreas cyst?
HISTORY: chronic history of head tremors, transient diabetes, possible intermittent pancreatitis and chronic kidney disease. Now head tremors worse and aggression changes and behavioural changes (ie: hiding in the tub). Ultrasound revelaed a 1.2 cm lesion in the spleen with both solid and cystic component. FNAs performed of both regions. Also, small kidneys with pyelectasia.

DESCRIPTION:
One smear contained several clusters of exocrine pancreatic epiththe pancreatic epithelial cells on a background of abundant peripheral blood. Clusters are disorganized and cells have a high N:C ratio scant deeply basophilic cytoplasm. Cells displan moderate anisocytosis and anisokaryosis. Three smears contain low numbers of fairly uniform hepatocytes on a background of peripheral blood. The remaining smears are acellular.

MICROSCOPIC FINDINGS: POSSIBLE PANCREATIC NEOPLASIA

COMMENTS:
the pancreatic epithelial cells senn in one smear do not display marked atypical features; however, the increased N:C ratio and lack of normal granular cytoplasm is suggestive of neoplasia. Well-differentiated pancreatic carcicoma may have a few atypical features and is difficult to rule out in this case. There is no evidence of inflammation in the sample. Consider histology to help confirm suspicion of neoplasia

if anyone has any insight please let me know....can both meds the bupe and prednisolone be given at the same time? thoughts anyone?

 

Hi Claudia - I am sorry about Rocket - I wish there was something I could do for you. I hold you both in my thoughts are prayers. Hugs to you both.

I hope someone can help you with the Cytology report - it is so out of my realm.

 

I dunno if there is anything more, I want you to know how much i am here and praying for both you and rocket.. you have a tight understanding family here at FDMB, but I know sometimes that can't be enough..it would be so nice to have one of us there with you, one of us who understands completely what it is you are doing for Rocket...
I wish i could help you with your results, i just want you to know..no matter what or when, you have my number you need to talk, you can call or text me!
You will do what is best for him...and as others have said...when it has been time for my sweet babies to cross, I know because they tell me so... their eyes...they have told me....i can't explain it...regardless you will know because YOU know Rocket, and Rocket knows you, and you two have a bond..and you have and will and continue to do, what is best for your sweet Rocketman!
((((Claudia & Rocket)))))) so much love and prayers coming your way! Hang in there best you can......
Mowg sends his puuursss and support to his Brudda from anotha Mudda! All my furbabies are sending every ounce of love and prayer they can....
They....we.....and ALL of us are here for you however we can be.....

 

Re: 2/3 Rocket AM BG 88=NS/PM BG 85=NS

The cytology isn't good, although it does not appear to clearly identify cancer, only dysregulation of cell structure, so I'm guessing they will suggest a more definitive biopsy.

Did a bit of web searching, so one word or phrase at at time, here are some definitions to help you understand the report better:

the N:C ratio, anisocytosis, and anisokaryosis are describing the cells that were found. Usually, cells of a particular type have a uniform structure. These 3 words describe atypical cell structure.

All the following sources cited are followed by paraphrases or quotes from those sites:

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NC_ratio
N:C ratio = ratio of the size (i.e., volume) of the nucleus of a cell to the size of the cytoplasm of that cell.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anisocytosis
anisocytosis = red blood cells are of unequal size

from http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/anisokaryosis
anisokaryosis = inequality in the size of the nuclei of cells.

from http://www.goodsearch.com/search.aspx?keywords=pyelectasia
pyelectasia = Enlargement of the part of the kidney that collects urine (the renal pelvis)

from http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/basophil
basophil ...
a granulocytic white blood cell characterized by cytoplasmic granules that stain blue when exposed to a basic dye. Basophils represent 1% or less of the total white blood cell count. The relative number of basophils increases in myeloproliferative diseases and decreases in severe allergic reactions. An increase in number is seen during the healing phase of inflammation. Basophils produce histamine during inflammatory reactions. Also called basophilic erythrocyte. ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatocytes
hepatocytes = A hepatocyte is a cell of the main tissue of the liver. Hepatocytes make up 70-80% of the liver's cytoplasmic mass.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoplasia
neoplasia = abnormal proliferation of cells

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinoma
carcinoma = a malignant new growth made up of epithelial cells tending to infiltrate surrounding tissues and to give rise to metastases.

 

(((Claudia and Rocket and DH too)))

Wanted to say goodnight. I wish my words could express how much I understand what you are going thru. Your a great bean, and Rocket loves you back.

You have our support and we thank you so much for yours.

Have a good night, try to get some rest.

Always in our thoughts.

 

(((((claudia and rocket)))))
i've sent a PM to jojo asking her to take a look at this latest report. hopefully, she'll be able to offer some insight.

 

for the past 2 1/2 hrs i've been giving him my unconditional love as always...cuddling with him...as he managed to sleep a lil bit after i gave him the bupe...he slept like a baby in my arms...i was uncomfortable for that period of time...but i treasured every minute of him...and he cuddled and let me be there with him holding my arm....that's the Rocket i have always known...even if for a short time yet...i will treasure every moment with him....

thanks BJM for the info...i will look it all up tomorrow....back to cuddling with him....he awaits me...

night everyone...thanks for your caring words and your support....

thanks Jill...i know Jojo remembers Rocket....

 

if it is pancreatic cancer, no, the outcome is not good. there really isn't any effective treatment, tho the report doesn't look definitive for it. could be cancer somewhere, could be a cyst on the pancreas.

BUT after having gone thru cancer with cleo, i'd go more by quality of life than anything else. cats are amazing creatures and you can't predict how they'll respond. i think prednisolone helps a lot and i didn't care about its effect on the blood glucose level. cancer trumps diabetes. cleo and harry both responded to pred pretty much right away. they were both on an antiinflammatory dose of 5mg a day, which i gave SID to cleo because it kept her numbers lower than 2.5mg BID did, for some reason.

what i'd look for is: hiding all or most of the time, fighting meds very hard, especially if he's doing it more than normal, refusal to eat, even if you try to force feed him. also look for trying to run away when you open the door (many cats want to hide when they think it's the end), total listlessness/not walking around at all. if you're seeing most of these, i'd consider letting him go. they know when it is time, and they actually seem to prepare for it. cats don't think about death like we do. they are very practical critters.

hope that helps.

 

((((Claudia)))) I am so sorry to see this news. May you find your hidden reservoir of strength. Scritches to Rocket.