12/20 Sooty PMPS 253

Here's yesterday's condo...

Today: AMPS 278 +2.5 245 +4 239 +6 248 +10 240

All well this AM in Sootyland, Ps are all happening and we figure that he ate about 10-11oz (of mostly Friskies, all LC) yesterday..

AMPS still up there after 4 cycles at 16u so this AM was cycle 1 at 17u. (Newbies, see warning in sig...!)

Hope you are all going to have a good Monday, only 5 more sleeps until the big guy comes...!!

ETA: Vet called while we were out, she left us a voicemail w/ the C&S results from Sooty's incident last weekend. She said that the culture grew Enterococcus and she wants to put him on 30 days course of Amoxi. But she did not say which kind of Enterococcus (Faecium or Faecalis). The thing is, Enterococcus Faecium is an ingredient in FortiFlora - which we have used and still do use when Sooty was/is reluctant to eat!
Botom line is: is this a problem? - if it's in the urinary tract - and therefore, does he really need ABs?

Are there any other Qs I need to ask the Vet (other than which form of E-coccus this is)?

Re: 12/20 Sooty AMPS 278

I'm glad you have that warning in your signature. That's a lot of juice :mrgreen:
Good luck with the new dosecrease!!!!

Re: 12/20 Sooty Enterococcus Q

Vet called while we were out, she left us a voicemail w/ the C&S results from Sooty's incident last weekend. She said that the culture grew Enterococcus and she wants to put him on 30 days course of Amoxi. But she did not say which kind of Enterococcus (Faecium or Faecalis). The thing is, Enterococcus Faecium is an ingredient in FortiFlora - which we have used and still do use when Sooty was/is reluctant to eat!
Botom line is: is this a problem? - if it's in the urinary tract - and therefore, does he really need ABs?

Are there any other Qs I need to ask the Vet (other than which form of E-coccus this actually is)?

ETA: I also x-posted this to Health, maybe get some more eyes...?

Re: 12/20 Sooty Enterococcus Q

Hi Perry -

I just popped on for a minute and saw this question. I don't really have an answer for you, other than to say that Emma had the same thing a few months ago. I don't know which Enterococcus it was either, but she put Emma on 14 days of clavamox. She said sometimes it's not a problem, as it can occur naturally in the body. And also it can be tough to get rid of. There's apparently a controversy about whether or not to even treat it. Emma was showing signs of a UTI, so we treated it. When they did the follow up C&S, it came back negative.

That's my two cents on the subject!

Re: 12/20 Sooty Enterococcus Q

Kristen & Emma said:

Hi Perry -

I just popped on for a minute and saw this question. I don't really have an answer for you, other than to say that Emma had the same thing a few months ago. I don't know which Enterococcus it was either, but she put Emma on 14 days of clavamox. She said sometimes it's not a problem, as it can occur naturally in the body. And also it can be tough to get rid of. There's apparently a controversy about whether or not to even treat it. Emma was showing signs of a UTI, so we treated it. When they did the follow up C&S, it came back negative.

That's my two cents on the subject!

Click to expand...

Thanks Kristen, much appreciated... I guess I am just wanting to know, did this come from FortiFlora/ and is it really a problem or not? Seems like it ought to be a simple question - but it seems that nothing is ever as simple as you would think, where cats are involved...!

Re: 12/20 Sooty Enterococcus Q

Sorry Perry, I don't have a clue. Hopefully others will come along and have more info....
Can you ask the vet office your question? Seems weird that the thing they find is also found in an item that is sold at vet offices.

Re: 12/20 Sooty Enterococcus Q

I'd be curious what the vet had to say. I'm just brainstorming here so I could be completely off base but I believe that the urinary track and the digestive system are entirely separate. I don't think you'd want the pipes to overlap otherwise you'd end up with fecal matter in the urinary track. That would not be a good thing. The intestines have harmless/helpful flora and probiotics, like FortiFlora, aim to keep the bacteria there active and healthy.

Re: 12/20 Sooty Enterococcus Q

Sienne and Gabby said:

I'd be curious what the vet had to say. I'm just brainstorming here so I could be completely off base but I believe that the urinary track and the digestive system are entirely separate. I don't think you'd want the pipes to overlap otherwise you'd end up with fecal matter in the urinary track. That would not be a good thing. The intestines have harmless/helpful flora and probiotics, like FortiFlora, aim to keep the bacteria there active and healthy.

Click to expand...

Yep I hear you... the vet had gone for the day, before we could talk to her, so asap tomorrow I'll ask her.

I actually decided against using Forta Flora for this very reason. I had sought advice from cat knowledgeable friends of mine and that was one of their concerns with forta flora.

hello, Sir Sooty and entourage!

be very interesting to see what your vet says tomorrow.

nice pmps!

celi & binks

Re: 12/20 Sooty Vet Update

Just to update amnyone who was watching yesterday: saw the vet this afternoon and she says yes indeed, Enterococcus is in FortiFlora and is perfectly OK (and even occurs naturally) in the digestive system, colon, etc. But is is indeed BAD if it gets into the urinary tract. This (cross-contamination, as it were), can easily happen with cats, even just by washing themselves, apparently... (lick here, then lick there...)

We are also very lucky that the Sensitivity tests showed that the Enterococcus strain that Sooty has is sensitive (=klillable!) by most of the main tranche of ABs - with Amoxillin being the favorite (and the cheapest., YAY!)
So it's 30 days of Amoxi-drops for the Sootster!

ps while we were there, our vet agreed, that yes, absolutely, we could and should try him on Gabapentin for the lower spine / hind quarters, to see if this frees him up a bit (she wasn't even surprised any more, when I suggested this!) - and she really seems now to be quite happy to be working with us, on with Sooty and his Acro, FD, etc -including a comment that the very high dose of Levemir that we are giving (our insulin-resistant boy), is only OK with her "if someone is watching very closely" - that is, as in our case, Home Testing as frequently as we are!!! This is really TERRIFIC to see happening! Way to go, Dr JoAnne Roesner!!!

Sounds like you had a great vet visit *clapping*. Good to know about the forta flora. I'm glad I didn't start Maverick on it. I'm looking for an alternative probiotic for him.

Good luck with the Gabapentin. We tried that for Maverick also.

Wait to go Perry....You converted another Vet for the books. Nice.

Hoping the ABs does the trick for Sooty.

Great job with the vet, Perry!!! woo hoo!!! I know Dr. Lisa uses fortiflora alot...interesting that it could potentially cause this. Surprising, actually. When my cats need a little extra bacteria (if they are on ABs), I give them the acidophilus "Perles". Works great. Hope Sooty will be feeling great soon. I've also used gabapentin on my arthritic cats; the pain mgmt specialist used it in conjunction with amantadine...worked in one kitty, not the other. Hope it helps.

Marjorie and Gracie said:

Great job with the vet, Perry!!! woo hoo!!! I know Dr. Lisa uses fortiflora alot...interesting that it could potentially cause this. Surprising, actually. When my cats need a little extra bacteria (if they are on ABs), I give them the acidophilus "Perles". Works great. Hope Sooty will be feeling great soon. I've also used gabapentin on my arthritic cats; the pain mgmt specialist used it in conjunction with amantadine...worked in one kitty, not the other. Hope it helps.

Click to expand...

I don't think we're saying that the Fortiflora caused this - as the Enterococcus bacillus is apparently present in cats' (and humans') digestive tracts anyhow. As long as that's the only place it goes, all is well and it is indeed, actually beneficial there. It's only if it gets (somehow) into the urinary tract, that it is an issue, as there, it can cause UTI symptoms.
So we can't really conclude that Fortiflora caused this in Sooty or could cause Enterococcus-related UTI in any cat... I think you'd need to know if other cats with UTIs that cultured for Enterococcus, had all been given Fortiflora or not, before attributing a causal link to Fortiflora...?