12/19 Rocket PMPS 117 +1.5 112 +4.5 83 +5.5 90-thank you ALL

Morning All,
Hope you have a good day!

before i get into my situation here his AMPS 108 (will explain after my venting the WCR...not good)

I've had an awful night here....and before i proceed to vent here is yesterday viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32369
quite the night i had...after i managed for Rocket to come up after his dive at +2 after pmps....i was just about to go to bed when my type 2 diabetic mother (non insulin dependent) went low herself...to 50!
so it was the eventful night for me....but this is not all

because i offered karo to her (something she says has never been advised to take after 20+ yrs of being type 2 diabetic by her dr or nurses or nutritionist!) she then proceeded to tell me she totally understood how Rocket felt going low...and that that in itself is the worst feeling ever...she says her mouth goes numb (tongue, lips) and she told me what her nurse has told her what to do when low but not use karo...so she then when she was feeling a lil better 63 (15 mins later) after i insisted in the karo...she said that i was slowly KILLING Rocket...that those low #s in him can't be good for his system as she herself understands how they feel....she said that his preshot # was ok at 130....that there is no need in putting him in danger by allowing him to go low...that it can not be healthy to their pancreas to be playing like that...i tried explaining to her that for him as a cat going to 50 was not bad as she herself felt....that in cats the BG is different (though i'm not sure anymore)...we had a long conversation but she now has put so much doubt in my head...i know she means well cause she is a diabetic and can tell me how she feels when she is high/low with her BGs....something Rocket can not...

since i do not know anyone else that has diabetes (yeah i know this is shocking)...i would like to know if a diabetic person is supposed to go to 50, how they feel when low/high, are human BGs the same as cats if they're to be in the normal range....

when my mom got to 104 she said it was still low but it was ok for her to go to bed....i left her the karo in her room...she said i'm playing with fire with Rocket's health...as that can't be good for me to ALLOW him to go low and be in the need to feed him to bring him back up...on a daily basis...this every hr feeding is retarted (not her words but mine but in a nutshell)....that i need to get a job and what will happen when i'm not home to 24/7 monitor him...

is anyone out there that is a diabetic that can perhaps shed some light into the human and feline diabetes?
i search the net but i'm drained...mentally, physically and emotionally.....

now the better part:

WCR:
He slept alone in the living room the rest of the night...he usually sleeps on his bed in the bedroom or right next to me...but not this time....Rocket was so willing to eat at amps that i was happy he was waiting by the bowl to be fed...so i did and this time i waited til he was almost fully done to give the shot....he then proceeded to the bathroom and was looking at his pillow (sort of my hint he wants fluids)...so i got to warming them up and he showed no interest in the chicken dust (which he always does but lately not so) then as i proceeded to give him the fluids he threw up on me and his pillow so i had to stop the session....it was muddy...so it was all the food he had eaten...no hairball....afterwards he wanted still the fluids and i figured the last thing i need is for him to get dehydrated so i changed the needle and started the session again....covering up the barf (sorry to be so explicit)....we finished and then he headed to drink water from the tub...so i let him be while i went into the kitchen to get some Clinicare as i knew he needed food and was not gonna try his reg food...when i went back in the bathroom i found him laying on the tub (sign of nausea and i figure by now +0.5 the insulin is kicking in into his now empty stomach)...grabbed him and took him to the kitchen...sat on the floor with 2 syringes full of Clinicare...so a lil more than 20 cc....i proceeded to syringe feed him...i managed to give him about 17 cc....until he got impatient with me...and by then at +0.75 he needed his pheno as it was 15 mins now late....

will test him at +1.25 and see where he is at....but since i'm in the dinning room using the laptop he has not gone under the bed but rather is on his bed here in the dinning room....at least i will have easy access for testing rather than fetch him from under the bed....

i'm really upset at what has taken place....could i be doing more harm than good by ALLOWING him to go low? are those #s too low for felines? do they get the same symptoms as humans?

so many questions....i need some insight/help/info/suggestions/anything to sort my head out...i've had hardly any sleep....thinking of what happened last night...and btw...when i pulled him out from under the bed to test at +2...i noticed his head was shaky....and that is also something my mom said can't be good for him when he goes low....i don't know anymore :YMSIGH: :sad: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108-VENTING-SORRY LONG

Well I am so sorry you had such a terrible night and I really cannot give much advice but was thinking normal range for people was in the 70's to like 130 or 140 I know I would have to research that but was thinking its along those lines I have tested myself a number of times and I run in the 60s a lot and for me this must be kinda normal since I feel ok as to how cats feel when they are low well I am sure they can feel bad depending on the cat and the number. Do Lou has had a hypo event when he was on N and he was 43 which to me is so weird since he has hit 20's on lantus but never ever been like he was that day on N he could not walk or stand and was like he was passing out that day I was told when later asked someone here who was advising us and was told it was the difference in how the 2 insulin's worked which must be true since Do Lou has hit lows a number of times and never did that again. BTW when that happened he was on his way to the vet for his BG check this was in 12/09 before hometesting for me. Anyway yesterday when he was in the 30's he walks fine and acts fine but meows weaker. To me there is more harm in going high then going low with but I hope others who know more about what you are asking will give you their opinion on this subject.

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108-VENTING-SORRY LONG

((((((((Claudia)))))))))

This has to be short for now, sorry. People and cats do have different "normal" ranges for blood glucose, and also remember that the numbers read slightly differently for cats using human meters. We take that into account with our protocol.

For example, most places I have seen the normal range for cats listed as around 80-120 measured with a veterinary meter. That translates to roughly 50-90 on a human meter. That means that for cats, a 50 on a human meter is at the bottom of the normal range, but still within the normal range.

For people, each lab is different but the labwork I just had indicates a range (for a nondiabetic) as 70-139, if not fasted. So a 50 for your mother is roughly 20 points BELOW the normal range.

This is a little different than what you asked, but not long ago I was talking with a friend who is diabetic. She had tried for years to manage her diabetes with drugs rather than insulin. She was running high most of the time and thought she was fine. When she finally went on insulin and her numbers went down to where they should be (100's), she felt horrible at first. Being high felt much better to her because that is what she was used to. She got used to it and started feeling good in the 100's. After being regulated mostly in the 100's for a few weeks, one day something was wrong and her number went high, back to the range that she used to think felt good. She then realized that NOW she felt horrible when she was high, and she realized that all those years she thought she felt normal she was really feeling bad the whole time. It just took a little while to adjust to what feeling good felt like. I don't know what range your mom is in on a daily basis, but it's possible that for her even a low normal number would feel bad, if that's not what she is used to.

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108 +1.25 149-VENTING-SORRY LONG

thanks Lisa...i'm pretty upset at it all....

Now at +1.25 149.4
refused to eat so i gave 8 cc Clinicare...and btw...i do NOT know the carb content in it....it does not say on the can...for the life of me i can't figure it out either :sad: s :sad:

i really don't know what's happening.......perhaps throwing up caused his BG to go up....i really have no clue...

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108-VENTING-SORRY LONG

I'm not diabetic, but I do get low blood sugar when I don't eat correctly. My BG was 36 once. For me, going low makes you feel like a clock being wound down. First, I get shaky and there's a frantic need for food. Next, I start feeling light-headed, nauseous, and out-of-it...almost as if I've detached from my body and am floating around it. If it gets really bad, I get very, very hot and then faint.

If I intervene during the shaky phase, I eat a handful of nuts. If it's too late for nuts, I need white, saltine crackers...taking sugar (orange juice, candy, karo, etc) will make me throw up and make me feel awful for days. (Due to this feeling, I would certainly feed wet food before jumping to karo in a cat, unless they refused to eat anything)

It's a scary feeling, but not painful. I think the 36 was my worst, and I was sick all weekend. Usually, though, I get the shakes, I get food and it's over.

Please remember that a cat's BG is normally lower than a person's. A 50 can be a normal number for a normal cat; one of mine tests in the 30s at times. Make sure Rocket has access to food when he's lower (or all the time if you can) and watch him. From what I understand, most people don't go into remission; many cats do. Therefore, you DO want to aim for the healing numbers, especially in the beginning. There may come a point where you think remission is not going to happen and at that point, you may decide to simply aim for "non-harmful" numbers.

Hope this helps a bit.

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108-VENTING-SORRY LONG

(((Claudia)))

I think your mom was being crabby due to her low BG. Sorry you were the target. First, ask anyone here who has tested their civvie cat what the BG numbers are. There are some non-FD cats who's normal BG is in the 40s. We certainly have cats on OTJ trials where no insulin has been given who's numbers are even in the 30s. You're mom is trying to generalize her experience to a cat. Even with humans, what is "normal" for one person isn't "normal" for another. Your mom may feel crummy with a BG at 50. Another diabetic would feel fine. She can't generalize her experience to another person, let alone to a cat.

Your mom described her symptoms when her BG is low. You have the list of hypo symptoms for a cat. Have you ever seen Rocket display those symptoms? Most of our cats are completely asymptomatic when their numbers are low. You are so in tune with Rocket, you would know if he wasn't feeling well. It's also why we test since our cats won't generally tell us that they want food because their numbers are low. And frankly, what do most people do when they feel a little hypoglycemic? They eat.

I'm curious. What were Rocket's numbers like when he was OTJ? Maybe showing your mom those data would help her to better understand that her experience is not the same as Rocket's.

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108-VENTING-SORRY LONG

Claudia,

I feel so much for what you went through last night. Unfortunately I have no answers. Googling normal bg levels for adults gives a range of 70-100 on the low end and up to 150 on the high (again we're talking people not cats). As for our kitties, I don't know how low is too low. Most sites quote somewhere from 50-130 for non-diabetic cats, but none of the information is one hundred percent consistent. Be patient with yourself, you've had a really rough night and the most important thing before you draw any conclusions is to stabilize Rocket.

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108 +1.25 149-VENTING-SORRY LONG

Claudia & Rocket said:

thanks Lisa...i'm pretty upset at it all....

Now at +1.25 149.4
refused to eat so i gave 8 cc Clinicare...and btw...i do NOT know the carb content in it....it does not say on the can...for the life of me i can't figure it out either :sad: s :sad:

i really don't know what's happening.......perhaps throwing up caused his BG to go up....i really have no clue...

Click to expand...

Claudia here is some more info on the clinicare its just lists carbs as 25% in the calorie distribution maybe someone here can figure out carbs I am not good at that sort of thing but the link gives info anyway and sending you a (((((HUG))))))

http://www.abbottanimalhealth.com/stati ... Feline.pdf

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108 +1.25 149-VENTING-SORRY LONG

I agree that you can't transfer one person's experience onto anyone let alone a cat and let alone someone who at the time is clearly 'not herself'!

The whole POINT of TR (Tight regulation) as I understand it, is to get down and try and stay down, into 50s and below, in order to help restart the Pancreas and promote possible remission. This (TR I mean) has been shown time and time again to be the best, if not the only, chance of achieving FD remission (OTJ) in cats. So "if you don't like the heat then you would have to stay out of the kitchen" - or as someone already said, forget about TR and just try for "safe" 100-200s. It's a decision everyone here (except Acro / IAA beans) has to make, let's face it.

Now if you had any evidence that Rocket is feeling terrible or being harmed in any way, by low BGs, then that might be a different story. But you don't, do you? (IIRC...!)

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108-VENTING-SORRY LONG

Sienne and Gabby said:

I'm curious. What were Rocket's numbers like when he was OTJ? Maybe showing your mom those data would help her to better understand that her experience is not the same as Rocket's.

Click to expand...

Rocket's old SS does not show the low #s FDMB's new protocol is now....after he went OTJ his range was btwn 65-120 (looking at his old SS now) and when he went otj he was in the blue.....

though he was otj for 2 yrs...this is so totally new for me...at these numbers.....

yeah i forgot to mention that she said she felt sorry for Rocket cause he was dying slowly.... :cry: she says when "people" go low (and she had many friends who are diabetic be it insulin dependent or just meds) they get shaky...she says she feels the same way....so after looking at Rocket last night his head was shaky....and he was trying to sleep but for whatever reason he couldn't....so i fed him and he started to eat....so me mentioning it to her obviously she will relate her experience with that of Rocket and the shakiness....

i'm oh so very upset! crying as i type....everyone still asleep...i really don't EVER want to do harm to Rocket... :cry: :cry:

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108 +1.25 149-VENTING-SORRY LONG

(((Claudia)))
I am sorry that you have had a rough time. I have been in the position of caring long term for a sick kitty with multiple health issues, and I know very well how the stress and fatigue and doubt can make life challenging. You go on out of love for your kitty, but it is often difficult and tiring work.

I am sure that your mother meant well (I hope so), but please don't let her input make you question everything you are doing here. I am not diabetic, so I don't have any light to shed on that. I know that a lot of people here report that their kitties get vocal or hungry when the BG starts to get low, but I have not read or observed that they feel ill. Bear Man, and others probably, could sleep (disconcertingly to me) through a dip into the 20's. When you start getting into symptomatic hypos, which we very rarely see here on the board, I expect it does feel uncomfortable. Most beans do report quite often that their cats feel less well in higher numbers.

Your Mom does not take insulin. Does she get hypoglycemic due to oral meds? Incidentally, I understand that a lot of diabetic humans carry "Rockets" (the candy) with them to bring the BG back up quickly ;-)

The attached chart shows some different ranges, and mentions a normal human range.
http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Blood ... _normal.3F

Your Mom may feel better in higher numbers, but it is my understanding that in humans, diabetes is an insidious killer in that you do not feel the ongoing damage that is being done to the organs by being in higher numbers. I think that your primary concern is that you are making Rocket feel sick by dosing too aggressively. If your goal is to get him OTJ, then the protocol is the way to do it. You are giving his body a chance to heal and to come off insulin. You could settle for less and just aim to keep him at a comfortable number below the renal threshold, as I did with Bear, but if he has a chance to go OTJ, then you are doing the right thing by trying to get him there. You lessen the chance of further damage to pancreatic cells, neuropathy, and UTI's due to glucose in the urine.

Hang in there (((Claudia))).

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108 +1.25 149-VENTING-SORRY LONG

Hang in there Claudia one thing to remember try not to let what others say get to you my Mother thinks I should put Do Lou to sleep since he is blind and I try to explain to her he is happy and can see a tiny bit but his sight is 90% gone I know what you Mom said got to you and its hard when we love them so much but you know you are doing everything you can to take great care of Rocket

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108 +1.25 149-VENTING-SORRY LONG

Hi Claudia,
I'm sorry that I don't know enough to help you with your dilemma, but I agree with the others that your most important task at the moment is to get Rocket stabilized and comfortable. You can debate with yourself later about how you want to manage his FD. Our kitties pick up on our emotions and our anxieties and changes in their daily routines. Does your mother live with you? Has this issue come up in the past? ECID and every person is different, too. I don't think your mother is doing herself or you any favors by attributing to Rocket her own reactions.
We often say "take a deep breath". So take one now and just be your normal self with Rocket. If you suspect some other health issue, you should call your vet.

Many hugs,

Ella

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108 +1.25 149 +2 140-VENTING-SORRY

+2 140 eating a lil of his own food...wait...he wants more....gave a lil more...ate it all :smile:

thank you all for your input/support/thoughts/experiences

i know she wants what is best for me and for Rocket too....she was freaked out last night when he went low and i had food/gravy/strips/laptop/mobile/everything in my room and had Rocket on the bed to test him every 15 mins til he came up....i guess since she's never seen that in animals...she freaked out...she stayed out of it as well as DH and my dad...they let me deal with it....

so i can see as well where she is coming from...being that this is NEW to them....

i will explain to her about the meters and the differences in cats/humans again...perhaps this morning she will sort of understand...

Lisa: yes the same thing has crossed their minds about PTS (put to sleep)but i keep telling everyone that so long as he is not suffering and he is being himself then he is ok and i'm ok....i know my sibblings wouldn't do any of this to their dogs....believe me...they would be rushed to PTS in no time...cause they see them as animals and a big expense...and since they have their children to worry about then their pets are really just there....

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108 +1.25 149 +2 140-VENTING-SORRY

(((((((Claudia))))))

If I recall, your mom is just visiting? So this is the first time she's seen you in action w/sweet Rocket?

I think it surprises folks who've never seen us in action w/our kitties. Listen to the folks here who have done this sugardance with their cats for awhile. They come from a place of experience and knowledge. Your mother has a different type of experience and knowledge NOT specific to your situation. Of course its hard to put it aside while your mom is there w/you.

Most of our friends and family who have't done this dance really don't understand. And probably never will. Sigh.

So lots and lots of hugs for you. You ARE doing a terrific job. Keep it up.

And come back and vent if ya need to.....That's what family is for right? Ya just have to come to the RIGHT family members. :mrgreen:

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108 +1.25 149 +2 140 +3 86!!VENTING

+3 86.4

Tena:yes my folks are here visiting for 3 weeks...so they have never seen this at all...last time Rocket was on insulin it was such short time that my folks only heard me over the phone talk about it but they have never experienced even watching me test him

i'm oh so very tired....and now worried on how he will be come pmps time....we have dinner reservations at Rocket's +2 of pmps....based on last night's event i'm pretty concerned but wouldn't want to cancel on my folks either....so torn :sad: :sad: :sad:

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108 +1.25 149 +2 140 +3 86!!VENTING

Good morning, Claudia & Rocket :YMHUG:
I'm sorry to hear how you are feeling, but it is good to reach out & allow everyone to support you. I used to think that testing so much & manipulating cycles with food was cruel too (I still hate testing, last night was proof of that) I have never, ever liked testing more than a few times.. but, I do it because Baby needs me to since she does not have a voice. I know on Friday when I called my Vet to ask him to call in a RX for Lantus, he asked what her #s were, when I said 119 & 163 - he said those are normal #s & she does not need Insulin, I said.. well we follow a different protocol & my 100s are not your 100s in the office, thankfully I have a Vet who places Baby's care in my hands & he called it in. I am thankful for that.. I really am... Anyway.. Baby ran in the 40s, 50s, 60s & 70s while OTJ & her sister Sadi (non diabetic) is always in the 40s, so I think those #s & factoring in the human meters, our kitties are doing great -- but nobody knows how a cat feels or thinks, etc. Ultimately it is up to you to believe in the plan of care that you are comfortable with. I personally am comfortable with Baby surfing low (too low in some opinions) #s to get her OTJ again. I sometimes need reminded that Baby needs MC or HC & to be careful shooting lower #s (I have shot a 50) and when Baby gets in the 30s, I still want to monitor it with low carb :YMSIGH: anyway.. we are all in this together & you most definitely have free will to make your own decisions.. Rusty did not get to be this age by having a bad caregiver, give yourself some credit... Whatever you decide, you have my support :YMHUG:

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108 +1.25 149 +2 140 +3 86!!VENTING

(((((Claudia))))) I'm so sorry for your terrible night and morning. I don't know any diabetics, but you have gotten a lot of insight from the others that have already posted. I just wanted to say that I had Blackie throw up on me once when I was giving him fluids. It too was the dinner he had just eaten, but since I was close to being finished I didn't interrupt the fluids and he was fine. Now I wait at least a half hour after feeding before I give him his fluids. I know someone said this, but remember that our meters read low. I've tested mine with the vets and at lower numbers its at least 20 pts lower and at higher numbers can be lower by 50 or more pts. I'm glad to hear that Rocket is eating on his own again. I'm sending eating vines to Rocket and feel better vines to you.

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108 +1.25 149 +2 140 +3 86!!VENTING

Claudia & Rocket said:

i'm oh so very tired....and now worried on how he will be come pmps time....we have dinner reservations at Rocket's +2 of pmps....based on last night's event i'm pretty concerned but wouldn't want to cancel on my folks either....so torn :sad: :sad: :sad:

Click to expand...

I'll share with you what I have learned over the last few months working with Jazzy (I never learned this in 18 months with Lucy). The cat will be fine. If you don't feel that you can give his shot on time and go out, then don't give the shot, or give a lower one, or give the shot and feed a HC dinner. We're all super dedicated to our kitties and we want to do everything possible to make their FD journey easy and successful. However, YOU are important too, as are your parents.

It's the holidays. I missed Jazzy's shot last night. I am fairly certain she will miss at least one more this week because despite my attempts to plan her shot times around the timing of holiday events, I'm sure there will be something that won't line up. If/when that happens, she'll run high for a few cycles. After those few cycles, she'll go back down and we'll be back on track. Also I haven't been feeling well so I don't do as many spot checks as I would like. Because I don't trust myself to get the spot checks, I am purposely running her numbers a little higher than I might otherwise. It's ok. I have to keep myself healthy and happy too. Jazzy will be fine. Rocket will be fine.

Obviously I would not advocate throwing protocol to the wind or just randomly skipping shots because they are inconvenient, but there are times when you HAVE to put yourself first or you will burn out. If you burn out you can't help him at all. Right? So whatever you have to do to make it happen, go out to dinner with your parents tonight and have a good time and don't worry. As I said, this is the holiday season, this happens once a year, enjoy it!

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108 +1.25 149 +2 140 +3 86 +4 74-VENTI

thank you all for your support and understanding....and i'm sorry for venting so early on Sunday!

tested +4 74...fed him a lil more and ate willingly...he is not hiding as of yet....

Libby, i will take your advise and if it comes to it i won't give or perhaps a token dose for tonight....we will see...i know what you mean...i have to take care of myself in order to take care for him...that's true...and re my folks i know too...

i guess i'm tired and sleep deprived is not helping me think straight....thank you all for giving me the push that i needed...i have always said that i want what's best for Rocket....and i mean it!

folks are up...mom's BG is high! i briefly told her about the meters reading different in cats....she said she understands my love and dedication for Rocket...she is just worried about me...i guess that was her way of saying she knows nothing about what i'm doing but if it's working this far then she will shut her mouth! i don't know!

we will be going out for a lil bit with my folks and DH...Rocket and Comet will stay home alone! will probably squeeze in one last testing at his +5.5 latest.....

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108 +1.25 149 +2 140 +3 86 +4 74-VENTI

((((((CLAUDIA)))))))

I am so sorry to hear about your long emotion filled night! That an be tough! You have already got some great support and adivce here, all I can offer is what I know too...Or I guess what I (newbie) has been through..
I am with Libby, I would be willing this one time to shoot what is comfortable for you tonite, so that you an go out and enjoy a dinner with the family.. Peace of mind is sometimes worth missing that one shot, or reducing it...
As for Rocket, as someone else said, you KNOW Rocket better than anyone, and from what I hear he is not in any kind of pain and you are not slowly killing him...Trust me, if a cat has had enough and wants to die...a cat will die..... I hope that doesn't sound harsh..But what I am trying to say is, Rocket ASKS you for his fluids and food, does that sound like a cat that is slowly dying? I think not...
Now for my own experience although it has been short...
When Mowgli had HIGH numbers he felt like crap....Laid under the bed ALL the time, didn't socialize, his hair fur was unkempt looked in general miserable... Now with his "lower" numbers I have MOWGLI back!! He is back to glaring at his sister and giving the swat should she walk too close...He is Mr.Social again, eatting better (although we know that has to do with a/b) His fur he looks divine, he is back to caring about what he looks like and teasing the dogs through the window...
So to me, that would mean he feels better at lower numbers... And I too have to keep in mind the variance between the human glucometers and the kitty ones.
As someone else mentioned..I can assure you I personally am not diabetic BUT when my BG levels drop, I am super crabby "beyatch", get the shakes feel weak. Most the time I am not aware of it, but some close friends will be like okay, you NEED TO EAT and NOW! Sure enough after I eat, I am back to feeling like myself.. So I am sure that is how your mom feels too..
Bottom line is this... you are doing an AMAZING job for Rocket! And Comet too! There are many people out there that just don't get what we do for our animals..And I actually feel sorry for those people, because most of the time that animal is not their family, but more of an accessory..
Keep up the good work, I do hope you get to go out tonite and spend some time with the family... May appease your mother some...
BIG HUGS FOR YOU AND ROCKET!!!!!
I hope your day gets better!!!!

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108 +1.25 149 +2 140 +3 86 +4 74-VENTI

(((Claudia)))

I was going to point out the difference between human meters and cat meters, and say to tell your mom that when Rocket is reading a 50, he's really about 75-80 on, say, the Alpha Trak. I started with the AT meter and did lots of comparisons between it and the Relion before switching over with Muffin. But I'm late to the party here, and I see you have already explained this and gotten the whole thing worked out, so all I have left to say is ....try to get a nap in today!

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108 +1.25 149 +2 140 +3 86 +4 74-VENTI

(((Claudia))) I don't have anything to add really but I am thinking about you. I think we all know the exhaustion and the frustration that comes when people criticize us and the protocol. You are an awesome mamabean and you are doing your best for Rocket. Hang in there...listen to the folks that know. Look at the SSs of some of the OTJ cats when their beans post...I see lots of 50s and some 40s. I have a civvie who tested 60 on my meter at the vet's office and if he had any white coat anxiety, he would be lower than that at home. You're doing great.

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108 +1.25 149 +2 140 +3 86 +4 74-VENTI

Claudia, I understand you completely.

My mom is also a type 2 diabetic (controlled by pills). She often comes to my house over the week-ends. She was telling me the same thing last summer: 3.0 (52) or anything under 4.0 (72) is way too low, she was telling me ‘he’s going to go into a coma’… I understand that getting low BG doesn’t feel good for people. You can be sure he's getting lots of food when she kitty sits!!!

Frip tested under 3.0 (52) many times now and I could not see any signs, not even when he was 2.1 (38) - I panicked and fed him any HC on hand but he looked at me like if I was going nuts: WOW why am I getting all these goodies? ;-)

With time my mom realized that cats normally have lower BGs than we do. Gripet (my civvie) his brother tested between 3.4 (61) and 3.7 (67) at all time.

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108 +2 140 +3 86 +4 74 +5.5 81-VENTING

+5.5 81
fed him a snack...hope he is ok
leaving food out for him...he's been sociable this morning...no hiding under the bed...

we are out for a few hours until just before pmps....hope everything is ok while we are out..... :YMSIGH:

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108 +2 140 +3 86 +4 74 +5.5 81-VENTING

Hi Claudia and Rocket! Just dropping in to give you some support and a hug. I really don't have anything else to offer that the other folks haven't already, but I do want to stress that friends/family that do not have experience with FD like we do, find what we do quite odd and obsessive with the testing and food manipulating. I say...as long as I feel comfortable and satisfied with the care I am giving Spot, I don't care what the hell they say. I know, by my experience and the boards experience, that I am doing right by Spot....and you are doing right by Rocket.
I also agree that maybe your mom was just feeling irritable from her little low experience and you just so happen to be the person she took it out of.
Relax, breath, and then say "eff it" and enjoy the rest of your visit w/your family.

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108 +2 140 +3 86 +4 74 +5.5 81-VENTING

Claudia, I'm sending lots of hugs for you. You have so much support and love here, no one would tell you to treat Rocket this way if they thought it was hurting him.

I hope you don't mind me saying that I'm really concerned about his hiding and seeking water. Has anyone told you at all what they think this is - CRF related or Diabetes? Honestly I think his diabetes is being so well controlled right now that his CRF needs management. I don't know enough about this. I haven't seen anyone recommending anything for you here. Have you gotten advice on this?

I read Rocket's condo every single day and think you are doing an amazing job managing Rocket, knowing how much you have on your plate personally right now. I admire you and you give me strength. Hang in there.

Re: 12/19 Rocket AMPS 108 +2 140 +3 86 +4 74 +5.5 81-VENTING

Karrie and Maverick said:

I hope you don't mind me saying that I'm really concerned about his hiding and seeking water. Has anyone told you at all what they think this is - CRF related or Diabetes? Honestly I think his diabetes is being so well controlled right now that his CRF needs management. I don't know enough about this. I haven't seen anyone recommending anything for you here. Have you gotten advice on this?

Click to expand...

well we got home at his +10.5 and i don't know when he ate his food that i left for him...ALL gone!...then he headed to his bowl and asked for more food....i'd assume he eate the stuff way before we got home....

Karrie, thanks for your concern with his CRF...it is not CRF related...today was the first time he did not hide....i took him to the bedroom for his nap before we headed out and he decided he did not want to be there and instead opted to sleep on the couch....which i was shocked...when we got back he was in the dinning room....on his bed....and has been very sociable....perhaps others are right saying though he knows and has seen my folks since his existence....it is always an adjustment to have other people around....the sitting by the water i suspect is his BG dropping...others here have mentioned other kitties having that reaction...he takes so many medications to control everything else going on with him from acid to nausea...i've noticed once he is going up he seems fine with the water issue....his CRF is well under control and his #s there are not high (his old SS has a tab with his lab report and his CRE, BUN and PHOS values are all ok...no anemia either....his #s there haven't changed much since dx....so i have managed to stay on top of that....i do thank you for bringing that up....believe me i keep a diary of everything to do with him...this is how the diabetes was caught in the early stages relatively the first time around....this second time might have slipped a little simply cause i had so much going on but not by much time frame...

i do appreciate everyone's support...i don't feel like i'm alone....i know my folks are worried about me....they see this is really stressful compared to how things have been when they've visited....so i try to just not be stuck near Rocket but i am vigilant on his every move without others noticing...perhaps they have and they don't say a word as to stay out of it...who knows...

since we are due to head out again at his +1.5 or there abouts and i don't want a repeat from last night to his dive of 50...i gave what i think it's only 0.25u...i waited until he finished eating to give the shot....he was on the coffee table and now he is not hiding but rather on his bed in the dinning room....i will make sure to test before we head out and if i see him going down too fast i will perhaps give food and syringe feed him some Clinicare (which i opened the whole can this morning anyways) and see if that holds him in a good range of #s....

i will report upon my return...i'm nervous but feel ok giving that dose then the full dose he has been getting which is a FAT 0.5u...hope i made the right decision :YMSIGH:

fingers, toes, paws crossed he will be ok while we are out....i'm sooo nervous nailbite_smile nailbite_smile

Re: 12/19 Rocket PMPS 117

i can't offer anything regarding the FD portion...but i will step in and comment on something i have extensive experience with, though i rarely bring it up on the forum.
I was a family grief counselor for years with AIDS patients and their loved ones...and what you are experiencing is something all caregivers go through, but most feel selfish about addressing or admitting.
Caregiving for a loved one is terribly exhausting and stressful, Claudia...and most folks buy into feeling guilt over wearing down, seeing it as "selfish" or "weak" when we are not the invalid.

you WILL wear down, you WILL cry, you WILL question whether or not you are helping or harming...and no matter how much you wish it were not true, at some point you WILL feel the unfairness of it all, not just that Rocket is ill...but how it impacts your life. With people, i advise venting, fighting, VOICING your anger and stress to your patient (YES..that's what i advise...my brother and i had terrible battles at times during his illness, but they were a necessary relief, and we were closer and fought his disease better because of it)

unfortunately, you are not caretaking a human.
BUT: you've got us! and you are exactly right to vent here, girl.

Do it whenever you need too...it will help you cope...and it will help others cope, as they see someone else feeling the helplessness and frustration they too are experiencing.

get some time away, get some rest, and good health wishes to your mother!

celi & binks

Re: 12/19 Rocket PMPS 117 +1 115 +1.5 112

Claudia, I have a diabetic husband, Aunt & Moonie--My DH isnt on insulin(on oral meds), but does have neuropathy, my DA has been a severe diabetic on 4 different insulins...She does feel when she drops a big amount of points, but is unaware unless she takes her BG...Moonie, I see, goes to eat her food when she feels low, I know she feels something--
We have been at this for almost 3 yrs...Keeping Moonie tightly regulated this way, I just know is the right way to be going.
I Want to know what her bg is, I want her to be in green numbers as much as possible, and I Know she feels good in Blue & green as well!
If you had seen her when she was 1st dx'd you would have seen one very very sick girl, sad & miserable,and we were both confused about the whole thing!
Now we are like a well oiled machine, working together, so so bonded, and keeping her well!

The vets have some strange ideas about FD..People in general have strange ideas about diabetes altogether..They mostly dont understand it--The food issues, the bg numbers & how to control them, even my DA lets herself go low when she forgets to eat!--I NEVER forget to eat(non diabetic just chubby :lol: )
So. You know so much about this disease--You Know karo will raise the bg on man or beast, you know a being will eventually feel themselves going low bg, and you know what to do about it--
Hey Girl, you deserve some applause--You are doing such a good job for all you love!!

Re: 12/19 Rocket PMPS 117 +1 115 +1.5 112 +4.5 83-thank you

ok so he did NOT eat a thing while we were out....i wa concerned but tested as soon as i walked in the door....+4.5 82.8

i showed him his food and he decided he wanted more liver dust as topping...so i put some more and he went for his dish...then he asked for more dust....so i gave more and he ate it all up with his food....

i'm glad he didn't go low...he is visiting my folks in their room as i type this....such weight off my shoulders....though he was high at pmps....i'm glad the lil insulin i gave will be ok and we can start over again to his regular dose tomorrow morning....

thank you ALL for your input/thoughts/advise/hugs, etc

much much appreciated....i'm truly speechless...i soooooo totally thank you ALL....you guys have been the sounding board i needed...as i felt so alone and as though i was drowning...i've been at the caregiving role with Rocket now since May2008....has not been easy and as each illness developed i felt like i was drowning more....very helpless feeling like....

thank you for allowing me to vent...thank you for your words of wisdom and for letting me know things are OK with Rocket....much much appreciated....Rocket says thank you too!!!

Re: 12/19 Rocket PMPS 117 +1.5 112 +4.5 83 +5.5 90-thank you

(((((((Claudia))))))

You are an amazing person Claudia. Hope you know it!!!