12/7 Gracie PMPS 279 +1 322 +2 307 +4 313

Yesterday: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31487

Recap:
AMPS: 293 14th cycle 1u+2: 277
+4: 262
+8: 252
+11:75: 51
+12: 46
+12.25: 44
+12.5: 43
+12.75: 48
+13.25: 65
+13.75: 87
PMPS (+14): 96 15th cycle 1u
+.5: 133
+1: 148
+2: 163
+3: 202
+4: 242

Today we remember all those who sacrificed their lives for our country on Pearl Harbor Day and all those who continue to make sacrifices to guard and protect our freedom!

Happy Tuesday!!! Just a quick report here as we are a little backed up…our schedule got off last night and I still need to get to TBP.

WCR: 3Ps in place….no purring yet but she almost did. She was racing wildly back and forth from under the Christmas tree into the kitchen and then back so we played chase for a while. She is such a sweet, sweet girl no matter how much we test her. She got Neosporin on her ears after all the testing last night. Interesting night. Lessons learned: (1) even if it’s a mid yellow, flat but dropping, keep checking (we NEVER thought she’d go from 252 to 51 in 4 hours when her rate of descent had been so slow) (2) if we are stalling, in the mid 40s, ok to feed small amounts of really LC (no gravy) to bring her up (gravy reserved for low 30s when stalling..for Gracie, (3) after I got the 65 at +13.25, I should have rechecked in 15 mins and probably shot that rising number instead of waiting 45 mins….if I had, her shed might not have drained as much. Gracie continues to teach us new things in our sugardance. HOWEVER, we are both pleasantly surprised that she appears to have surfed yellow last night and has a very low pink AMPS. I hope NDW does not occur with stalling, etc. even though her dose is the same.

I am having lunch with our vet today to discuss Gracie, show her Gracie’s SS, and also some other cats’ SS so she can see what lantus does on a day to day basis because she just doesn’t have that info. She is so open to learning and is really excited about our discussion today as am I. I think she will be stunned to see what CAN happen when a person is sent home with their kitty and directions to give a certain amount of insulin bid with no home monitoring. I cannot even imagine what our journey with Gracie would have been like if I had been blindly shooting 1u bid.

Have a great day!!!! I’ll check back in later to do condos and I hope everyone has a nice surf today.

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307

Not a bad bounce after such an exciting night.

Sweet on informing the vet. :thumbup I've often wondered if there would be a way to form local FD support groups. We've learned so much, it would be great to share with others who never thought to look for FDMB.

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307

Hi Marjorie,
What a golden opportunity you have today to talk with your vet in a "neutral" venue! Eager to hear all about it later. She's sure to be impressed with Gracie's SS, and with how really well you handled that low number at PMPS yesterday. And you have excellent notes on what you did and what you might have done somewhat differently to fine-tune the situation (but you did fantastically!)

Check in with you later. Have a great luncheon!

Ella

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307

What an opportunity! I LOVE to read about vets that are willing to learn form average people like us. That is the best news I've read all day. If only all vets were this willing. YAY! Every time I go to my vets I make a point of reminding them, and the techs, and the receptionists (especially them - they are the front line) about fdmb, and all that can be done for FD cats, and their owners. Good job Marjorie - and the best of luck! I think it is great too that you are going with more than just Gracie's SS - very good idea.

Well bummer on being two hours off schedule now - but not too much else you could have done. Interesting on the things learned. i think we all have a tendency to not be as vigilant when we see a string of Yellows... I've done that too. all in all it was a great job - a very interesting discussion going on there last night. That one I printed.

have a great day - very nice to see a low pink this AM - not a bad bounce at all. Good job Gracie.

Gracie! See you soon? Some kitties are coming to my place today - my been said we could decorate the tree. YIPPIE! You wanna come too? We can make niptinis while we part decorate. Then off to Canada for some KTSS duty for Luna. See you soon! ~~ Mannie

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307

though i didn't visit yesterday i did see the exciting day you had with Gracie...wow.... nailbite_smile

hope you managed to get some rest today....never know if more action awaits you later today :mrgreen:

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 140

DH here - Didn't expect that drop after last night, thought her shed might be drained a little. Guess Gracie is better at thinking than her beans. Upped her carbs to 6% with a little gravy, recheck in 30 minutes.

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 140

I still can't get over the big drops some cats surprise you guys with. Just bam - often without rhyme or reason. I learn so much from following Condo's like yours.

It almost seems unreal when you said you were having lunch with your vet. I think I read that sentence like four times before I moved to the next one. Seriously amazing. That made my day also. You are very lucky to have a vet like that, and her to have a client like you. Kudos to both of you. I can't wait to hear how it went. For now I've nicknamed Maverick's vet Dr. Snarky McHissypants. Until we find a new vet.

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 140

Oh Gracie. You never cease to amaze with what you do with your numbers. That is quite low enough. Start surfing right now young lady.

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 140 +2.5 101

DH here - well the 6% didn't slow her down much but she is still in blue and I don't want to ruin her chance at a surf with too many carbs. Sooo, gave her a little more 6% with 9% gravy and recheck again in 30

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 140 +2.5 101

That Gracie sure does like to dive! Slow down there, girl! I would have fed the same thing, Mike. You just hate to lose the surf, but don't want the diving either. Beans are never happy! :lol: Surf those greens, Gracie!

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 140 +2.5 101 +3 77

DH here - Well her dive rate slowed by half on that test. She was about 80 an hour and now 40. Fed the same 6% with a little extra 9% gravy. Now lets surf little girl.

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 140 +2.5 101 +3 77 +3.5 50

Down to 50. Gave her a good bit of 14% gravy. Recheck in 20. I think shes saying "less juice please"

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 140 +2.5 101 +3 77 +3.5 50

wow...not again!!! :mrgreen:
come on Gracie! enough drama for your beans...give them a break!

bump*

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 140 +2.5 101 +3 77 +3.5 50

my gracious - another diving session by Miss Gracie. Determined, isn't she? I hear ya on not wanting to lose the surf, and also not wanting them so low. FWIW, I would have fed the same thing. and Gracie - that's low enough. Surf now, OK?

My protege! I am sooooo proud! ~~ Mannie

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 140 +2.5 101 +3 77 +3.5 50

Marjorie and Gracie said:

Down to 50. Gave her a good bit of 14% gravy. Recheck in 20. I think shes saying "less juice please"

Click to expand...

Yes, I think so. It certainly doesn't look like the stall depleted her shed very much at all, huh?

As evidenced by the nice numbers today, I'm not sure I would have shot any earlier than you did last night, Marjorie. Letting the numbers rise sufficiently to make sure it's a true rise after food is in the picture takes time...you really can't rush it. If you had only waited 15 minutes after the 65, I doubt you would have gotten enough of a rise to be confident that it wasn't food influenced, because you had fed 45 minutes before that. As it was, after 30 minutes, you only had an 87...so I don't think only waiting 15 minutes would have been sufficient. Patience.....it's a good thing. ;-)

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 140 +2.5 101 +3 77 +3.5 50 +4 52

DH here - I wish Marjorie had invited our vet to lunch here at the house :lol: :lol: So she has finally leveled off for a minute. I gave her some of the 2% we started the day with (back when she was in pink and we didn't expect much action, Gracie says ha ha) with some 14% gravy to hopefully lift her number a bit. Hopefully get her to move up into the 60's or 70's so I can give her tired little ears a rest.

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 140 +3 77 +3.5 50 +4 52 +4.5 52

DH here - Still at 52 at +4.5. Fed her the same thing again, 2% with 14% gravy.

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 140 +3 77 +4 52 +4.5 52 +5 48

DH: I am so very impressed about how you are handling Gracie and her low. Its wonderful to see. I think you've set the bar for my DH now :mrgreen:

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 140 +3 77 +4 52 +5 48 +5.5 67

DH here - 67 at 5.5, finally starting up a little. Not going to feed this one.

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 140 +3 77 +4 52 +5 48 +5.5 67

Yes, I agree, I think Gracie is saying less juice. Hope she continues to surf nicely now that she is up.

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 140 +3 77 +4 52 +5 48 +5.5 67

WOW Gracie you are looking great today! You just love those dives, did you teach them to Moonie??
Love the vet thing
My vet has made me an honorary vet of FD in their office & they are amazed by it--I always bring her ss with me--
Great thing to have a vet that understands!--DH you are my hero--wish my DH could be as well prepared as you!! What a guy what a cat--
We love Marjorie too~~

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 140 +3 77 +4 52 +5 48 +6 71 +7 8

87 at +7. Haven't fed her in a couple of hours so I guess she is finally surfing a little. Hoping she doesn't go up as fast as she came down. I'm going to let her ears rest for a couple of hours, but definitely going to get an extra test approaching PMPS in case she has another surprise in store.

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 140 +3 77 +4 52 +5 48 +6 71 +7 8

nicely done cabana bean - great day for Gracie. Now surf there Gracie OK? no bouncing! She's looking really good guys....

Gracie!! Guess what! Our KTSS trip for Luna is growing... all the canadian kitties are coming too - kinda like a reunion. ted too! I think, per Ted's suggestion, that we will try a little canadian cooking tonight - fire up the grill for some caribou, and poach some salmon with a maple glaze. You in? Fun huh! See you ~~ Mannie

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 140 +3 77 +4 52 +5 48 +6 71 +7 8

well-earned, indeed Princess Grace!

the important question i don't see answered here is this:

did the vet BUY lunch?

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 140 +3 77 +4 52 +5 48 +6 71 +7 8

Lesson for today: Even with a delay and a reduction, it can take a cycle for the new dose to be in place. With a reduction, there is left over shed action from the previous dose. Generally, a reduction isn't given on the cycle after a reduction because back-to-back reductions don't hold.

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 140 +3 77 +4 52 +5 48 +6 71 +7 8

I am totally amazed at how well Ms. Gracie did yesterday and today AND that you had lunch with your vet to discuss FD AND that DH is right on target! I have to say, nice condo today!

Re: 12/7 Gracie AMPS 307 +2 140 +3 77 +4 52 +5 48 +6 71 +7 8

Marjorie here...info on the vet visit later. Wow..Mike did an awesome job with Gracie today. I swear I NEVER get her to surf like he does...he has the magic touch. Thank all of you, our dear friends, for keeping him company and checking in on Gracie's progress today. Needless to say, she surprised us.

Michelle, Anne, Ele, and Ella: thanks for your support and reaffirming to Mike that you would do what he did...it helps because you all are much more experienced. And we always love to have your input...we've learned so much from everyone. And I had a great conversation with the vet!

Claudia: I got LOTS of sleep...I went to bed at +1 and DH stayed up until 2 am making sure little Gracie was going up :lol:

Karrie: Without mentioning names, I used Dr. Snarky McHissypants (love it) as an example to Dr. M and what you've been through. She couldn't believe it.

Roni and Karrie: Yes, I am supremely lucky that Mike is so vested in this (as are other DHs) and can just run the show AND do a better job :lol: :lol:
Cool that you are the FD expert there, Roni!!

Barb and Ele: Miss Gracie is certainly keeping us on our toes....she's a kick.

Deb: thanks...altho I had absolutely nothing to do with all the interesting stuff on the condo today!

Celi: I bought :lol: :lol:

Barbara and Laurie: I think Mike was just kidding about "less juice please"...no intention of reducing her dose right now unless advised otherwise.

Sienne: Hope I understand you correctly on this. We had the delay (which is considered a reduction) but we shot her normal dose of 1u. What we saw today was left over shed action from the "previous" dose meaning the "on time" dose from cycle 1 yesterday? I know Mike said "less juice please" but I think he was just joking because we weren't planning on actually reducing her dose from 1u...I shot 1u this morning at 9 am (normal time is 7:30 am and last night we shot at 9:30 pm) which is an implied dose increase. Correct? The other thing is since Gracie hasn't been holding her reductions well, we were going to hold off actually reducing her dose amount from 1u until she got below 50 on three separate occasions. On 2nd cycle 12/02, she went below 50 AFTER I shot; end of 2nd cycle yesterday, she went below 50 as we were preparing to shoot...I dont know if those count. Comments...advice??

eta: I understand I can move her back 30 mins a day to her regular time. So today, I moved her back 30 mins in the am cycle, will do the same on Wed, Thurs, and Fri should put us back to our normal shot time. How does this implied increase affect her shed each day? Do we continue with her 1u...Jill told me to try and hold onto this dose as long as possible so I'm not sure where we are with that now.

Re: 12/7GracieAMPS 307+2 140+3 77+4 52 +6 71 +7 87 +10 147 D

Bump...sorry but not long before we test and shoot.

Re: 12/7GracieAMPS 307+2 140+3 77+4 52 +6 71 +7 87 +10 147 D

howdy!, what a nice day for Gracie. I'd hold the dose, but that's me - you probably want to wait for the experts.

have a great night guys - I look forward to seeing what Gracie does tonight.

I can hardly wait to hear about your vet visit. It sounds like it went well - which is great!

Re: 12/7GracieAMPS 307+2 140+3 77+4 52 +6 71 +7 87 +10 147 D

I would keep your dose where it is -- that 48 was an almost 50 and if you're worried about her holding reductions, I suspect you won't have to wait long before Gracie tells you it's time to drop her dose. (Sorry for the confusion -- I didn't look at Gracie's SS and just assumed you'd reduced. My bad.)

Shifting shot time by 30 min. should have minimal if any effect on the shed. Remember, if you're worried about it, you can always move the time by 15 min. per cycle.

Re: 12/7GracieAMPS 307+2 140+3 77+4 52 +6 71 +7 87 +10 147 D

What a day you guys have had! Impressive that Gracie's shed was that full. Wouldn't you give your eye teeth for one of those crystal balls that tell you what the next test will be! What do you think she has in mind for tonight? Sorry no advice on the dose. I think we all want to hear about the vet luncheon.

Re: 12/7GracieAMPS 307+2 140+3 77+4 52 +6 71 +7 87 +10 147 D

Thanks, Sienne....appreciate the clarification. We felt the same way about the 48 today.

Ann...looks like she's going up now...I think Mike is a little relieved. We're trying to decorate the tree which is difficult with Gracie and Tobey helping.

Ok...so vet talk. When Dr. M first looked at Gracie's SS, she said..."wow...she's all over the place...I would be prone to call her a "brittle diabetic". I said, "let me show you something" and then proceeded to show her other SSs: Mannie, Binks, Tess, Gabby to name a few and she was astounded that they were all doing drops and bounces. I guess one could term these kitties as brittle diabetics in a fashion as, for instance, Gracie is definitely not regulated yet like others among us. I told her about "liver training school" and then showed her some other SSs where the liver "snapped"...Lucy, Curry, and even Binks when he had all those incredible numbers for several cycles. She was stunned that Tena shoots those green PSs and Curry just sails along pretty as you please! I also showed her some SSs on kitties who were on dry food, came in at high doses due to the vet, and were OTJ in a few weeks because of the people in FDMB (Essi, Bid). I think she believes we all have BOS :lol: :lol: We discussed what really can happen when one is blindly shooting and I told her that without home monitoring, if I had had Gracie on 1u bid, she would have been doing all of that without us knowing because she sure doesn't show it behaviorally. She said that since our first discussion a couple months ago, she is no longer doing glucose curves in the office because the information is useless because the cat is so stressed out. She said she starts with the .25u/kg and then backs it off and has the client do glucose urine testing. If the test comes back negative, she backs it off more; if it comes back +1, she leaves it alone, and if it comes back above that, she might do a little increase. She said it is not a good system but most of her clients will NOT hometest and if a cat has at least +1 glucose in the urine, then she figures they won't hypo. Now she's rethinking that because of looking at these SSs and seeing what these kitties MAY do. I had my notepad so took her through our condo and she just could not believe how we interface and all the information. I also told her how the more experienced members will stay up as late as they have to in order to get someone through a rough patch on numbers and she said "And they don't get paid???"". She said she is immediately going to start talking to clients about home testing and I offered to help teach people how to do it esp if they are willing to get into FDMB and get assistance here. We had a great lunch meeting, she was so impressed and couldn't believe all that we have learned. Mike kept calling with updates on Gracie and she was wowed with how he was managing her curve with food and we had a lengthy discussion about that and I kept conveying ECID ECID ECID. The one thing that was really germaine to Gracie was I told her I did not see Grace going into remission or even getting close as long as she could not pass LTS. Dr. M said she has a great herb that helps to (for lack of other words to translate Chinese) "relax" the liver. She said it could help and would not do anything detrimental and since we monitor Gracie, it would help us see if it can help with the LTS. We aren't starting it until Gracie's NRT vet tests her for it to make sure it does not weaken any other organ and that it will help her liver. ALSO...I made the huge issue about not feeding DM! I showed her Janet and Binky's charts and that even someone pressed for $$ can feed a low carb canned diet that would be cheaper than DM and better for the cat. She said she has never liked DM but was not aware of all of this info on foods...again, astounded and encouraged.


Whew...sorry for the long post. I'm so glad that some of you have equally wonderful vets and am sad when a vet is close-minded and won't learn.

Re: 12/7GracieAMPS 307+2 140+3 77+4 52 +7 87 +10 147 +11.5 2

Wow, i think you've got a convert on your hands. It's incredible how few vets really understand feline nutrition. I know they have to study a lot of different animals, but cats are the most numerous pets in the country. Good work, Marjorie. \M/

Re: 12/7 Gracie PMPS 279

So agreed with Ann. Awesome job!

Now let's see what Gracie has planned for tonight....

Re: 12/7 Gracie PMPS 279

Wow ! All I can say is that all of you have had a most incredible day. I'm so glad that you and your vet had such a productive lunch. You sure came prepared and I bet she was really impressed. How could she not have been?

I hope you have a nice quiet night tonight and that all of you can catch up with your sleep.

Re: 12/7 Gracie PMPS 279

Great job Marjorie, Mike, and GRACIE!! Professor Gracie educates her vet. Now that's what we like to see. Kudos to you all!

Ella

Re: 12/7 Gracie PMPS 279

Thanks, Ann, Michelle, Barb, and Ella....we were at lunch for two hours so there was so much more but impossible to convey it all in a post. I'm so sorry I didn't get to visit any condos today. Between shooting Gracie later, having to get to work, lunch with vet, more work, putting up Xmas tree (we didn't even eat dinner until 9:30) and now I'm way past bedtime to go to work tomorrow!! So...hopefully, I'll get to visit everyone then. Sleep tight all and hope you had a wonderful day.

Re: 12/7 Gracie PMPS 279 +1 322 +2 307

nice work, marjorie!

Re: 12/7 Gracie PMPS 279 +1 322 +2 307

NI NI!!

DH here - Well I think thats it for tonight, still in the bounce at +4. I hate seeing a pink number, but we all need a little break. I have a feeling she will slide down into yellow overnight. Ni Ni all.

I am just blown away and inspired by your 2 hour power lunch with your vet and how receptive she was. I think you did an amazing job with bringing the spreadsheets and walking her through it. You've probably made a big difference in the lives of many cats. You should be proud.

Your vet made up for my experience. Just knowing there are decent ones out there gives me hope. I will keep looking for Maverick.

Gracie's thread today (yesterday) just made my day. Gracie is so lucky to have a mom/dad and vet all working together the way you guys do. She's in great hands !!!!

I'm bookmarking this for reference in the future.