10/2 Gandolf PMPS 390 (1.5U)+2 274 +5 236

I am getting very frustrated and am in tears at the moment. I wrote a question to post and it disappeared. I am spending days and hours...hours trying to get this together. I managed to get a SS going but I don't know how to get to it. I didn't give Gandolf his injection this morning because his BG was 85, he ate and 2 hours later it was 74. It's back up now to 121 and right now I'm way off his 12/12 (which I'm barely managing to manage anyway). This is consuming me and him. I'm pricking and pricking and pricking...reading, pricking, reading, ..... but can't say I know what to do. MELTDOWN! :YMSIGH:

I don't know how to access the google account I created for posting his spread sheet. I couldn't update the spreadsheet, the original just kept disappearing and ... :YMSIGH: I'm just going to cry. I'll feel better and start again later.

Cee & Gandy

Re: Terribly Frustrated

I'm not very technical, but I can tell you docs.google.com should get you to your ss. I know it can be very frustrating, taking a little break is a good idea.

Re: Terribly Frustrated

Take some deep breaths......its gonna be ok.

Some of us answered your spreadsheet question a little bit ago.

I am very new to all this too, so I totally understand how you feel.

Re: Terribly Frustrated

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Oh my it can be terribly frustrating.

Create Spreadsheets over here...put a profile over there, set up a tag line at the bottom....

I got pretty frustrated and disgusted too. You did this wrong, set up that, no...say it this way. The other day when I posted a hypo Pmps...number I was told not to do that ...as I hadn't actually given the shot. Technical, technical, technical...

When the crisis had passed and I calmed down....I went and fixed things. I took a break at one point keeping my own Excel SS because I literally felt picked to death over stuff.

Sometimes we forget what it is like to be new. The overwhelming learning curve we each faced with our sugarcats. Insulin, food, learning to test, learning what the numbers mean, dealing with hypo's etc. You know...you're exactly where I was about 4 months ago. I literally stopped visiting FDMB for a few months.

I am sorry you are feeling this way. It does get better, really it does.

Don't sweat the small stuff. You're here for your precious furbaby.

Re: Terribly Frustrated

It was probably wise that you skipped the morning shot given the low pre-shot. If Gandolf was still at 74 two hours later, while it's great numbers, it's likely that this was too low for you to shoot given that you don't yet have enough data. So, the really good news is that you did the right thing! The other good piece of news is that you can get back on schedule for your PM shot.

It will be easier to have a sense of what's going on once you have your SS linked to your signature. It's one way that it doesn't get "lost." I also have Gabby's SS bookmarked so I don't lose track of my Google documents. If you have a Google mail account, you can access your Google documents from there, as well.

Re: Terribly Frustrated

It's ok...yes, take a deep breath. Let's see if we can walk through this. I'm also going to PM you my phone number and if you can't get the SS up, please call me and I'll walk you through it. Remember any time you add anything to you SS, go up to the right corner and click on the "save" button next to the "share" button.

Open the google page, sign in, then on the upper right, click on the arrow next to "Settings" and left click on "Google Account Settings". You'll see a section that says "Personal Settings" and then one below it that says "My Products". Under that is a section entitled "Docs". That is where your SS should be if you saved it correctly.
If you can't locate it, call me and we'll try to find it.

It would help everyone to get it published under your name so we can all look at it. So if you get the SS to come up, in the upper right corner of the page above the SS, left click on the arrow by "Share" and then click on "publish as a web page". At the bottom in a big white square, you'll see an https address. Highlight and copy the entire thing. Then go back to the main FDMB page and click on "User Control Panel", click on "profile", click on "edit signature" and then paste the SS address into the white box. You will need to add a few qualifiers so in the end, it should look like this:

kitty's name Spreadsheet

Of course, instead of "Gracie's Spreadsheet" you'll have your kitty's name followed by "Spreadsheet". Call me if you need help...we can do this.

I will have to let someone more experienced answer your question about shooting ...I am new as well but I can at least tell you to keep monitoring your kitty and let's try to get the SS up so the guides can look at it and help you. Hang in there...it'll be ok.

Re: Terribly Frustrated

I am so sorry that you have had to go through all of this. I am glad to see that others have chimed in to help. Been through what you described - I wondered if I would ever get it all together. It does get easier. I'm no shooting expert, but I think you made the right decision. It will be OK.

Re: Terribly Frustrated

here's your ss
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key ... utput=html

Re: Terribly Frustrated

((((Cee)))) It gets easier, I promise. The beginning can be so overwhelming.

I'm glad Sienne agrees that skipping the morning shot was fine. And either way, one shot missed will not kick your kitty off the road to healing. It's a long road. So take care of yourself, know that we're here to encourage you, and you're not alone.

Did I mention that it gets better? :mrgreen:

Re: Terribly Frustrated

Thanks WCF!!

A couple of comments on your SS. It's probably best for now to put comments in the Comments column. Otherwise, if you put anything besides a number in the other areas, you have to manually change the colors. The value of these SSs, is that they are color coded, making it easy to see how you're kitty is doing at a glance. Rather than add to your frustration with having to tinker with the SS, any comments can go all the way to the right side and you'll keep the numbers color coded. Alternatively, you can put the times in a row immediately below your BG test # and you'll have 2 rows per day.

Unless you know for sure that numbers were running low, I don't know if your interpretation of what happened yesterday is accurate. Given where we usually suggest initial dose is calibrated, you did start a little high. We also raise dose in 0.25 increments. That said, it looks like Gandalf's numbers started to rise after your 133 the PM cycle on 9/30 and continued upward until last night's shot.

Given that you had to skip your shot this morning, I'd like to suggest that you lower your dose so you are comfortable shooting the same dose twice a day. Lantus really likes consistency. Having a low pre-shot for which you don't yet have enough data to give an injection and then skipping, means your next pre-shot will probably be high. If you shoot a dose that makes you nervous or drops numbers too low to shoot the next cycle, you're in a pattern that isn't taking advantage of how to best dose Lantus. I'd suggest dropping your dose to 1.5u. What do you think of that strategy?

Re: Terribly Frustrated

My spreadsheet automagically saves any changes/additions I make. I don't have to click "save". Is this not the default setting?

Re: Terribly Frustrated

I have no advice to offer but I just want to say ((((((((((((((((big hug))))))))))))))) I have been where you are and its overwhelming, just know it does get better and easier and all will work out fine.

Re: Terribly Frustrated

Last weekend I was feeling just like you too. I was teary and crying off and on all day especially Sunday. The only thing I was doing was Powder! It does get better but here I am again! There's so much to learn laptop_smiley . I think we will adjust as our kitties improve (Gandolf looks to be doing great :RAHCAT) and learn to figure out what to do . We also have a lot to learn about FD and there has to be a learning curve, Look at what you can do now and what you know now as compared to day one and be proud of each step
It's hard not to feel bad when we don't do it right but keep your chin up, the technical part will slowly work. I'm still having problems getting my profile not to look like a program :lol: Everyone here wants to help it's just that some times when you're struggling just to test, feed and post in Lantus Land the way things get posted can have a reprimanding tone. We Newbies are a sensitive lot because we're in a new place without experience, exhausted, stressed and trying so hard to do it all as fast as possible because we all love our fur babies and want them better. Please give yourself a lot of credit and be kind to yourself you're doing great :YMHUG: Powder wants to tell Gandolf he's glad to meet him and to keep up those great BG's.

Re: Terribly Frustrated

Hi MJ...mine typically does autosave but once in a while I have to manually save it. I thought I'd just let her know so she can check and make sure it's saved.

Re: Terribly Frustrated

OK. I hope this all loads the way I'm hoping it does.
I almost killed my my kitty! I found the SS and accessed it(Thanks Marjorie), updated it and it was revelatory! Gandolf's BG is now 310. Its several hours till evening shot. What do you think I should do. A 1U injection now do you think? And, I'm thinking the vet's 2.5U is to much.Am I thinking right? What do I do now?

Thanks y'all

Re: Terribly Frustrated

Hey...I totally understand what you are experiencing. It is overwhelming. I'm pretty new too. And I too had to take a little break at the beginning....I was driving myself nuts and needed a little separation time. And you are right...I took alot of time at the beginning.....not so much now.

I'm glad folks here are lending you a hand with each of your questions. I'm hear to lend support, hugs, healing vines and a shoulder to cry on.....I always feel better after one of my meltdowns....of course after the nose becomes less stuffy and I can see again cuz the eyes are less swollen.....

You are doing a great job. You have the main things down. Dx, testing, shooting. The rest is tweaking. Take one tweak at a time. All the feedback given doesn't need to be accomplished at one time. Just take one suggestion....and if you having trouble w/that one....throw it out the group.

It will get better. And Gandy has such a wonderful mommabean...he needs to give you some extra head butts and cuddles right now, eh?

Re: Terribly Frustrated

Hi welcome.
I would not shoot anything now. You would be way off schedule if you did.
Just shoot his pm shot at the time you normally do. Sienne suggested that you shoot 1.50 units so you will be more comfortable.

This is overwhelming but I promise it does get easier. :mrgreen:

Re: Terribly Frustrated

I'm bumping this up if needed, but can you put "Dosage help?" or something like that in the original subject line? More people might notice, and you have a few hours before you need to make that decision. Go back to the first post to change that, since that is the subject line that shows up in the list of condos. "Terribly frustrated" is often a given here It gets better, really.

MJ&Donovan

Re: Terribly Frustrated

Good job on getting your SS loaded!!! You might want to look at some other folks' SSs and you can see how they are laid out so the guides can
look at them quickly and assess what's going on...that is most important if we need a quick answer. Also, scroll back through this condo and
read Sienne's post...she is one of the guides and she has given you some really good info but don't be afraid to ask more questions. The other thing
I have learned (as I am a newbie, too) is each day start one new topic and then you'll add to the same one all day long. So at the beginning of the day, your subject
title will read:

DATE Gandolf AMPS 250 (just an example on the number)

When you take the next reading, then open the original post, click on the "edit" button, put your cursor in the subject line and add the next reading so it would look like:

DATE Gandolf AMPS 250 +2 150
And so on until you do your PMPS. At PMPS, you edit the subject line so it reads:
DATE Gandolf PMPS 175 and then add onto it as you test.

The other thing is each morning, if you could go back to the previous day's post, copy the URL in the browser and then open a "new topic" for your condo for the current date and in the big text box where you put your message, put in "Yesterday" and then space and paste the URL. That way they can go back and look at the condo the day before if they need to. It seems like alot of work upfront but it helps others help you and that's what it's all about Pls let us know where you need help. And MJ is so right...it gets better. We've only been doing this two weeks...still lots of challenges for us but everyone has been so amazing and helped us so much that I feel very differently today than I did two weeks ago.

Re: Dosage Help!!

OK. I cleaned up the SS and put comments in comments and inserted the second row for the days. I'm comfortable with that little extra info for myself but maybe later won't need that. Can I print these out too?

Also, I'm not clear whether I should wait till 8 tonight to shoot or do a decreased dose now. (And yes I think 1.5 is what I'll do unless I hear differently after this post). His BG is 310 and probably rising. He was in the hospital over the weekend 2 weeks ago and they had him on I-V cause he was dehydrated, not eating, weak,his breath smelled,and he was vomiting nothing but stomach juice and just horribly sick. Really thought he was going. I don't like the idea that his BG is pounding away on his soft tissues right now.

So, what..did I give him too much insulin and he went too low and rebounded. Is that what happened? My God, I wasn't home either when that happened. Who knows how low he went... What a miraculous organism these flesh bodies are. He didn't die or go into coma. Isn't that what happens with insulin OD.

I'm exhausted, but I can get to and edit Gandolf's SS now.

Thank you all so much....really... a heartfelt thank you.

Re: Dosage Help!!

Cee,

As Miriam said above, wait until your usual shot time. Get onto your usual, comfortable schedule, and shoot the reduced dose you've decided on.

Don't worry too much about the missed shot. Diabetes is complicated, and it takes time to get it straightened out.

By the way, I know how you feel. Before I found this site, my (ex)vet had me shooting 10 units once a day. Thanks to FDMB and LL, my kitty not only survived -- he is now OTJ (in remission, off insulin), after 15 months on insulin.

You are in the right place. You have wonderfully knowledgeable people here to help you.

Kathy

Re: Dosage Help!!

Cee

Yes, you can print your SS. On the SS page, just go directly above the SS on the left and you can either click on the printer icon or click on "File" and then "print".
You can always put your comments on feeding, etc, in the comment box...that way it's easier to follow but it's your choice.

Better now I cannot tell you how scared out of my mind I was before I started Gracie on insulin; the first time her numbers went down into the 50s, I was petrified. Both times...always...there has been someone in this group to help me. I couldn't do this without them. There are alot of eyes tracking all this so
it will be ok.

Re: Dosage Help!!

cee, every cat is different (ecid) I've read that some cats can produce the hormones and the liver releases glucose to compensate for low BG. The first curve I did my boy dropped below 35. I felt just like you wondering how he had dipped really low during the week. Stressful for me but he seemed fine. There's no dose meter in the liver so it dumps out what ever it does in reaction to the low. That's a partial reason for the rebound. It's the bodies way of compensating. Some healthy cats have BGs in the 50's- 60's (read again).

Do you know how to change your subject box? If you haven't got it yet: Scroll down on posting page that shows our subjects
Right click on your post
under the subject line over the message block you'll see edit
Click on it then delete old info
type in new info to subject line then hit submit
if you want to enter an update or ask a question refresh (I have FDMB LANTUS site bookmarked in my toolbar) the page and open your thread by clicking on your subject line.

I also found unless I hit the bookmark like up above I couldn't see any of the new responses to my thread.

Hope I didn't confuse you more :smile:

Re: Dosage Help!!

What would be your ideal shooting time? If you want to have your schedule to be 8 am and 8 pm then shoot tonight at 8. Since you skipped the am shot you can decide what schedule you would like to shoot and stick with that time...K? Shoot the 1.5 units like Sienne suggested. Do you have syringes with 1/2 unit markings?

Did Gandolph have ketones when he was in the hospital?

Re: Dosage Help!!

((Cee))

Deep breath. (We remind newbies to breathe a lot.) You're really doing well. It is SO overwhelming at the beginning of this sugar dance. All of us have felt paralyzed with not enough information, too much information, thinking that we did something horribly wrong, etc. Here's the secret -- even if you think you screwed up, post. People here will help. Miriam will remember the evening that one of our new members on her first shot of insulin gave a dose of 5.0u when she thought she was giving 0.5u. People stayed up with her for close to 20 hours making sure her kitty was OK and she stayed awake and didn't have a meltdown. Her kitty was fine given the guidance of people here and he's now in remission. You've found a community of people who really and truly care about Gandalf and you. And Marjorie is right -- we will do our best to answer your questions and provide you with the information you need to make good decisions.

You can start your dose at either 1.0u or 1.5u. Either is fine. Most kitties initial dose is in the range of 1.0 to 1.75u depending on the ideal weight of their cat. I didn't want you to feel like I was trashing the advice your vet gave you. Personally, I think it's easier to work the dose up from the lower end than down if it's too high. Working the dose up is much less scary.

Whatever your preferred shot time is, give the shot then. We've all had to skip a shot for one reason or another or have given a fur shot. While it doesn't help the shed, it does let you make a schedule adjustment that would otherwise take days to make. With Lantus, you can only move the time of a shot a max of 30 min. per day. (A late shot acts like a dose reduction; an early shot acts like a dose increase.)

Did the vet give you a diagnosis when Gandolf was in the hospital? You mentioned that his breath smelled. Did it smell like alcohol or acetone (i.e, nail polish remover)? I'm wondering if Gandolf had diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) which required him to be in the hospital. I would suggest (and we tell everyone this) to pick up Ketostix the next time you're near a pharmacy. Ketones are what caused Gandolf's breath to smell. They are very serious. Gabby had DKA at the time of her diagnosis and was hospitalized, as well. The best way to keep Gandolf safe is to test for ketones. The Ketostix make it relatively easy to do. (You dip them into Gandolf's urine stream, wait 15 sec. and compare the color of the stick to the key on the side of the container.)

Re: Dosage Help!!

I agree on the 1.50 units.

People here told me to start at 1.00 unit 2x a day, 12 hours apart, stay on that for 5-7 days.
Then if BG numbers are still high I could increase at that time .25 more.
Then stay on that for 5-7 days, etc.
I just increased to 1.25 units today.

For your cat, the 1.50 is probably the right thing to do, since you had given higher doses before.

Increases are suppose to be in .25 increments. So after 5-7 days at 1.50 if you need to increase, go to 1.75 units.
Then stay on that amount for 5-7 days, etc.

To do this you need the syringes that have the 1/2 unit marks, and eyeball the extra .25 unit between the lines.

Even if your numbers are high in the 300 and 400's, be patient. Eventually you will arrive to the correct dose for your cat.
The cats insulin storage shed will not be full until a week goes by.
My cats numbers are high still, but are steady and not jumping up and down drastically, so she feels soooo much better than before. Her PMPS was 447.

Re: Dosage Help!!

first, no, you didn't almost kill your kitty. Please don't think that! He has gotten some very good numbers. Sure, he probably did go lower last night, but on Lantus cats can get really low without hypo symptoms. The rebound that you're seeing can happen from any number, if that number is lower than he is used to. Remember that Gandolf was probably diabetic for a while before you discovered it, and he might have been in high numbers for months. Those green numbers are new to him, so his liver reacted. That's what it's supposed to do, so you can rest easy because you can see that it's working.

Now we need to get control of the numbers so you and Gandolf will feel more comfortable. Was he hospitalized for diabetic ketoacidosis? It sounds like that may be what you are describing. If so, then you do need to be more aggressive with dosing to keep that from returning.

Re: 10/2 Gandolf PMPS 390 (1.5U)+2 274

Yay! :RAHCAT We're OK and back on track. What a ride. I'll keep him on 1.5U for 5 - 7 days if I understand it right and we'll take it from there. He's been fine all day long, obviously it was me who bottomed out. :roll:

Thank you for sticking with us and walking us through this. We would've been at ER otherwise and not sure he would have received such experienced and knowledgable care, and it would've been even more stressful for both of us as well. Instead, we were able to work through this in the comfort of our home, plus, he's becoming very cooperative with the ear pricks, sitting still and tolerating me so patiently. I have learned SO MUCH today.

I will continue to post his numbers. Gotta go update his SS right now.

Thank you all so very much, each one, and good night.

Cee & Gandolf

Re: 10/2 Gandolf PMPS 390 (1.5U)+2 274

It is amazing how well some of them sit for the testing. My baby girl does too.

I am just as new at all this as you are, we just need to be patient. It will be ok.
I definatly am thankful for all the knowledgeable people here. It has helped me so much.

My vet even called me today and wanted the link for her spreadsheet.
She believes in the home testing and knows I am coming to this site for support.

Re: 10/2 Gandolf PMPS 390 (1.5U)+2 274

Great job today, Cee. I'm glad you are feeling better and Gandolf is home safe and sound. Try to get some rest and we will all be around Lantus Land tomorrow...and the next day and the next The ketostix are a great idea....I check Grace every single day. I've made a ton of little foil trays with higher edges and I just stick one under her little bottom as she pees...you only need a little. Some cats will let you just put the ketostix in their urine stream as they pee but Grace squats so low and has such fluffy bloomers that it's hard for me to see if I got the stick in the urine so the tray works best for us...as she squats, I just put it under her..she never knows it's there.
Be sure and record it in your comments...I usually just put "NEG KET" in my comment box each day.

Sleep tight..see you tomorrow.

Re: 10/2 Gandolf PMPS 390 (1.5U)+2 274

Great job!!

One point of correction. Gandolf has been on Lantus for a total of 7 cycles (with one skipped shot) - almost 4 days. It takes 5 - 7 days from your initial dose for the shed to fill. So you won't have to wait another 5+ days. Once you hit the 5 day point, we can evaluate the dose.

Once the dust has settled a little, take a look at the "Tight Regulation" sticky note. It will help to clarify how long doses are held.