9/20 Gracie +8 311 PMPS 294 +4 297

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Marje and Gracie

Marje and Gracie

Member Since 2010
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Yesterday: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25378

We're off! Her PS number today was alot lower than it has been....well, let's say it seems alot lower to me. It may be insignificant in reality.
So I shot anyway since she has plenty of room and we're going to do a +2, +5 and +8 check today unless someone tells me we should do more. Of course, we'll also see what her +2 is doing. Do you think we're starting to see lantus kick in? dancing_cat

I drew the syringe like Pat suggested and it was MUCH better so thank you Pat!!
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS 225! Newbie Question

Hi Marjorie and welcome to FDMB.
That is a very lovely yellow PS number for Gracie today.
Tonight will be the 6th cycle on Lantus.

Gracie's shed is working on getting filled and could be a reason
for these nice numbers.

What I learned from treating Max's diabetes, who is now OTJ is patience.
Our kitties will do what they want and we are here to follow them.

Your are doing a terrific job with your testing and taking care of your girl!

With regards to the air bubbles I also agree with Pat.
When I was shooting insulin I would also pull back a little more insulin than
the dose I needed and just gently twisted the plunger and see the drops
coming off the needle, to get the dose I wanted.
Our last dose on Lantus was .25 and I was counting drops at that time.

I'm glad you had succes with that this morning.
Looking forward to seeing more numbers today.
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS 225! Newbie Question

It's a big "maybe." It takes 5 - 7 days after starting Lantus for the shed to fill. It's likely that more of the Lantus is bioavailable and that's why the lower number but you never know. The other factor to consider is the degree of variance due to measurement error inherent in a meter. Typically, there's about a 10 - 20% variance in any meter reading. Don't get too wed to the numbers -- remember, any number is really a range.
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS 225! Newbie Question

Nice AMPS for Gracie this morning... :mrgreen:
maybe take the "newbie question" out of your header now...

Glad the bubbles were less annoying this morning....
Will you be able to get a +2,4,7 and 9 today as well as a check or two in tonight?
You are doing a fine job Marjorie! :mrgreen:

Please post immediately if you get any low numbers that cause you any concerns, okay?
If you get a lower preshot than you are used to getting , please DO NOT feed but post the number and someone will help you, okay?
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS 225! Newbie Question

Thanks Pat and Sienne. Yes...a good number. But wouldn't the meter always run the same +/- amount? I do think mine runs about 20 high.

Sorry...I will change the header. I have a million things going today..trying to work, window washers here, etc and I wanted a few more thoughts, too.

Yes...we'll try to do 2,4,7,9...so you think that is better than just 2,5,8? And yes, we'll do pm tests.

Thank you all and thanks for letting me know about the PS number tonight, Pat. So what do you think the range is that I wouldn't feed and I'd contact you all? Below 200 or if it is 225 again, I'm ok?

Thank you!
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS 225 another newbie ?

SOrry...just had those two additional questions:

1. 2,4,7,9 better than 2,4,8...trying to save ears but want to closely watch her
2. at what level PS tonight do I not feed/shoot and contact you all? Lower than 225 or is 225 ok considering normal PS has been about 280?
Thanks.
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS 225

Just get a +11 to give you an idea of where she is okay?
Whatever hours you want to test that will be fine......neosporin on the ears will help with healing. Also,apply pressure after you do the test to stop the bleed, okay? Try using both ears...

I would think that anything above 150 is fine for you to shoot....please post if you have any doubts at all, okay?
You are testing a lot and that is THE one thing that we need to make an educated decision about what number to shoot.
You will always need HC gravy and plenty of strips on hand at all times, okay?
I think Libby said it perfectly yesterday in your condo....
IF you are all alone and no one is on the board, you will do this:
Libby and Lucy said:
sorry, there really isn't a way to outline every possible scenario. As a newbie, if you get a lower than usual preshot and nobody is here to help you, I would follow the steps outlined in the sticky:

IF YOU'RE A NEWBIE the FAQ section 4.4 applies:

Q4.4. My cat's pre-shot level was way below the usual value. Should I give the injection?

A4.4. There's no hard and fast rule, but if you don't have data on how your cat responds to insulin, here are some general guidelines. Below 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), don't give insulin. Between 150 and 200 (8.3-11.1 mmol/L), you have three options: a.) give nothing; b.) give a token dose (10-25% of the usual dose); c.) feed as usual, test in a couple of hours, and make a decision based on that value. Above 200 (11.1 mmol/L) but below the cat's normal pre-shot value, a reduced dose might be wise.

If you can get a +11 and post, then most likely someone will be around to help walk you through it. In the evenings there are usually people around, and depending on your shot time there are often folks here in the morning too. Once you start collecting more data, you'll know how your cat responds. The questions people will ask you will help narrow down the important factors: how much below your usual is this number? What happened in the last couple of cycles leading up to this number? Is it rising or dropping? How fast? Is she eating normally? Are you home to monitor? Have plenty of strips? Does your schedule allow for delays? For how long can you stall? Have you already fed? The answers to all those questions can help us help you shoot low safely. If you're faced with a lower preshot at a time when you aren't able to let us walk you through it, then your choices are to shoot full dose, shoot a reduced dose, stall until you get a number you are comfortable shooting, or skip.
Click to expand...

You will be fine...the lower numbers are scary at first. we have a saying "Shoot Low to stay Low" Once you know what your Gracie is going to do because of the data you have collected, you will feel more comfortable shooting lower pre shots. You may look at Shadow's SS to get an idea of the numbers I shoot. Don't faint though! :lol: It is because I test often that I know how he will react. And I am ALWAYS there to get a +1 and am ready to give LC snacks and HC gravy if needed.
Take a look when you have time and ask anything after that...I will be happy to try to answer your questions, ok?

If she is running low one day, just post the +11 and someone will be here to help you.... :mrgreen:
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS 225 another newbie ?

whooo hooo and we're off!
and below 150 i think is not 'no shoot' but shoot half? right peeps? are you advocating no shoot at 150 or lower?
remember sweetie, your meter does run high until the #'s get closer to 150...then the meter runs spot on. i've done plenty of testing against other meters with that brand..always the same. ok?
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS 225 +2 268

Thanks, Pat.

We do switch ears and we do compress and use the neosporin...thank you so much for that idea because I think it has made a big difference. I want to monitor closely but I know when her numbers start coming down, I'm gonna REALLY have to watch her so just trying to save ears.

So...I'm not sure if I understood....instead of doing 2,4,7,9 as previously suggested, I should just do +11 before the PMPS and not worry about the rest of the day? I mean, in reality, it would be hard to think she'd drop from 268. What do you think about a +6 and +11...that way we see if she's peaking at +6 and then what her +11 is..of course, she will only have been withheld food for an hour at the +11.

Thank you!!! And yes, the info Libby sent yesterday, I have printed and posted with my hypo kit which has about 7 cans HC FF and also caro.

Oh..another question...I read someone's post yesterday that they had a "10% topper". What would that be? Right now, I have her normal low carb foods and then the high carbs but nothing in between. Is there something good that I could use if I needed to slowly steer her up (like if her number got to 100..kidding :lol: ); I see you all slowly steering them and I want to avoid having her jump from 50 to 250 because I gave her too much HC when something else might have worked.

Thanks again...I know I'm not at those numbers yet but I'm one of those moms described in the "Dear Mom" letter.
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS 225 +2 268

Thanks, Michelle (and Mannie) and Lori and TOMTOM!! So we're starting to get the rumbly tummy here...adverse to my sentence yesterday that I'd probably gain 10 lbs, I've lost 2 :roll: But that's cool...Gracie will have an ultra svelte mommy.

BTW, Lori, after reading someone's post that they dropped their meter during an intense moment and thank God they had another, DH went out yesterday and bought a One Touch Ultra Mini as a backup...cause it was inexpensive mainly and they didn't have Contours at our CVS and he didn't want to go all over town. We're trying to sync them up so we know how close they are. But I feel better having a backup...I hadn't envisioned that happening!
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS 225 +2 268

Try to alternate the hours of testing today. And the +11 is always nice to see once in awhile...but especially if she is running low during the day. How do you know if she is running low? By testing. It's all about the testing. Did you get a chance to look at Shadow's SS....or Gabby's SS?

On Sept 2nd, I shot a 64...I gave Shadow 2.50u of Levemir. And if you notice, his +11=63...I knew he was going up and I also got a +1=67. I also tested every hour on the hour during that cycle too. :lol: The only reason I could do that was because I have documented his numbers. I know my cat and I know that I am in control with my trusty meter and the food I have on hand, whether it be LC or MC or HC....
If I had to walk out the door, I would never have shot that number. Which is demonstrating what Sienne said in your condo yesterday.
Sienne and Gabby said:
There are too many variables...
  • Are you going to be home?
  • If you're going to be out, for how long?
  • Will your cat self-feed?
  • Is the pre-shot 150, 120 , 180?
  • What is the lowest you've shot before?
  • Will you be able to test at +1? At +2?
  • What's you cat's pattern?
  • How flexible is your schedule if you need to delay?

And probably a bunch of things I've missed!
Click to expand...


Bear with me now Marjorie....I am NOT telling YOU that you should shoot that number. Shadow and I have been doing this dance for 13 months now. I am trying to demonstrate that the data you collect with tests will help you make decisions about what number is safe for you to shoot.
We really cannot pinpoint one number that would be too low for you to shoot at this time.
We would have to look at what went on during the day with Gracie and if you are not testing through the day, there will be no information to base shooting that low.

When Gracie starts getting lower mid cycle numbers the preshot numbers will come down. You will eventually get <150 perhaps at preshot. You will then decide whether to shoot a smaller dose, or delay the shot and your subsequent schedule until the numbers rise. If you visit other condos, you will witness this happening with others and you will get the idea.

LC is <10% or so, MC= 10%=15% HC=16% and above....refer to the Binky chart for some medium carb foods. Much depends on how sensitive each kitty is to carbohydrates. Again, back to testing often to see how the BGs rise with each category.

There are countless scenarios Marjorie...and difficult to cover all possible circumstances. It would be nice to get enough testing for her SS so that you can see a pattern...the curve...with the nadir and the rises.
Thankfully you are shooting at a time when many people are online. You will post a +11 or +11.5 and someone will help you. They will ask you have HC gravy and plenty of strips and whether you will be home.
Then, you will decide together about what is going to happen. I hope that helps a little...
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS 225 +2 268

$ may not be an issue yet but the ot mini's have expensive strips, like a buck a strip...or more. if it gets to be an issue i bid for them on e-bay. i need to. always be careful of the expy you bid for and don't forget to calibrate your meter each time you open a new vial of strips, you don't do that for contour so i wanted you to know.
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS 225 +2 268

I started out with the Contour.
Then, I bought a Walmart Reli-on Micro...and I LOVE it!
The test strips are 50 @ $20. I got so nervous waiting for the Contour strips to arrive in the mail. :lol:
And I go through test strips like crazy! I got a lot of error messages and wasted strips with the Contour. I hope you are not having that problem....
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS 225 +2 268

Some kitties DO drop a substantial amount though Marjorie...you do not have enough data to think that a large drop is not possible! When is Gracie's nadir?
That is what you are getting data on....one day is not enough data to make any calls on things in MHO.
You want to make note of when you feed her and then you will see the reaction to food.
Do you give her snacks during the day?
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS 225 +2 268

Wow..lots of good info. Thank you all, esp Pat. I think I misunderstood because in one post, I thought you wanted me to run 2,5,8 or something like that and then in another, I thought you just said 11 but you might have meant "throw in an 11" with the 2,5,8 so that's our goal today...2,5,8, and an 11. I do want to build numbers so you all can see what's going on and I can learn my girl's rhythms. And thanks for clarifying about the large drop. I shouldn't be so durn naive.

I know we have a steep learning curve to get to where many of you are. I did look at the spreadsheets ...I try to look at as many as possible. My mouth just fell open. Our goal is to learn as much about Gracie's curve as we can in the next three weeks while we can be home 24/7. So we are trying to pokey during the day. We just did +5 which was 287 so I "think" she's still filling her shed because normally, we would expect that number to be lower if she had filled her shed...right? Anyway, I am encouraged by a few things: more yellow than pink today, less glucose in her urine which fits the yellow rather than the pink.

We basically feed her every couple of hours and we give her her low carb food (I double checked on J&B's charts and her foods are between 6-8% carbs). I am going to call the company's and just check to see if their formulas have changed and if that's changed their %s. I looked up on J&Bs how to calculate that. She does get snacks with her food...she likes just a "dusting" of the Whole Life 100% chicken treats (which is on J&Bs as a lowcarb treat) as a topper. And I do mean a dusting. But that is also the treat she gets after her pokey.

I ordered extra strips for the One Touch on Hocks...50 for $25 I think it was. We can also get those on the air force base for less. It may end up being our primary if we have trouble getting the Contour strips and DH likes it better..it is smaller and easier for him to handle. We haven't had alot of error messages with the Contour and haven't wasted strips. But I like having a back-up.

Thanks to you all....I can't tell you how much we all appreciate this. Gracie, head-butt Queen, sends HBs toall of you and your sugarbabies.
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS 225 +2 268 +5 287

Gracie's +8 was up...durn, I wanted to be all yellow today as a goal. But..question...I didn't get the best poke and so the blood was
just slowly going up the strip and DH pulled it away before I thought it was totally full. He said if it didn't have enough blood, it would
have given an error message. I'm not going to retest right now as Gracie has gone back to nap but will do a +11.
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS 225 +2 268 +5 287 +8 311

"Try to alternate the hours of testing today. And the +11 is always nice to see once in awhile...but especially if she is running low during the day. How do you know if she is running low? By testing. It's all about the testing."

she isn't so low today...you could skip the +11 if you want....I would rather see some tests tonight...
If you don't see this in time, that's okay. But if you do, don't bother with it tonight.
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS 225 +2 268 +5 287 +8 311

Ok..she'll be happy about no +11. What tests do you think tonite? Her PMPS is at 7:30 Pac time so +5 puts us at 12:30 am...we're pretty wiped out...in fact, just tried to catch a quick nap. But we'll do what we need to do. PMPS +11 would be at 6:30 am tomorrow..doable if you all think it would help. Thanks, Pat.
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS 225 +2 268 +5 287 +8 311

Marjorie and Gracie said:
Ok..she'll be happy about no +11. What tests do you think tonite? Her PMPS is at 7:30 Pac time so +5 puts us at 12:30 am...we're pretty wiped out...in fact, just tried to catch a quick nap. But we'll do what we need to do. PMPS +11 would be at 6:30 am tomorrow..doable if you all think it would help. Thanks, Pat.
Click to expand...

I'll try to help with this question.
If you're seeing a higher pre shot number, you know you can save a strip and catch at least one before bedtime check.
Testing doesn't mean you have to lose sleep. If you need to go to bed and are worried about Gracie's numbers, do your bed time check, feed her a snack, and leave a little extra out for her.
If one of you stays up later than the other, have them do a before bedtime check too.
We use to do that a lot, and rotate so both of us didn't have to stay up.

+11 are always useful, so when ever you are around before AMPS and/or PMPS, try to get one in.
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS 225 +2 268 +5 287 +8 311 newbie question

Ronnie

Thank you. I was wondering about tests tonight because Pat said she'd like to see a "some tests" so I was trying to figure out which ones and how many that would best help. We have been sticking her before we go to bed...try to make it to +4 or +5. It still takes both of us..not because Gracie isn't good but because we just haven't gotten it down well enough to handle all the stuff...Gracie has dark ears and so it's really helpful to have someone shining a flashlight on the area where we stick so we can see the stick and also see the drop of blood...even in good lighting, it's hard to see. Also, we always feed her before we go to bed but we can't leave out food overnight due to four different cats on three different diets.

So I just need to follow up to see how many tests tonight...we will have six cycles under our belt tonight and not much changes so I am wondering about dose increase. The "no tickee, no washee" states
Hold the initial starting dose of 5-7 days (10-14 cycles) unless the numbers tell you otherie. Kitties experiencing high flat curves or prone to ketones may want to increase the starting dose after 3 days (6 cycles)
Click to expand...

Gracie's curve isn't totally flat and it's not way high; from others' thoughts, I'm assuming she's still filling her shed so I don't want to rush her and overfill too quickly. Advice??
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS 225 +2 268 +5 287 +8 311 newbie question

i think the starting dose was set a little low. there's plenty of room for a dose increase. if it were me, i would go ahead and increase the dose to 0.75 unit bid. if your pmps number is lower than today's 311 at +8, please post before shooting, k?
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS225+2 268+5 287+8 311 newbie ? 5 cycles done

Thanks Jill and Libby....if the PMPS is higher than 311 and I dosecrease, how much monitoring should I do tonight?? Will someone be around to help me....I want to be sure I'm not left alone if her numbers start dropping at midnight nailbite_smile
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS225+2 268+5 287+8 311 newbie dosecrease ?

i don't think they meant tonight. better in the morning. jill? libby?
and yes it was a super small dose
but remind everyone of her weight and sensitivity to medication k?
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS225+2 268+5 287+8 311 newbie dosecrease ?

if you're able to monitor tonight, then you can increase tonight. I would probably do a +2, and maybe a +4, then decide from there if additional monitoring is needed tonight. What time zone are you in? We have West Coast people who are up very late.
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS225+2 268+5 287+8 311 newbie dosecrease ?

west coast for marjorie,,,me too, but i'm still helpful in a lantus 'crisis'
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS225+2 268+5 287+8 311 newbie ? 5 cycles done

Marjorie and Gracie said:
Thanks Jill and Libby....if the PMPS is higher than 311 and I dosecrease, how much monitoring should I do tonight?? Will someone be around to help me....I want to be sure I'm not left alone if her numbers start dropping at midnight nailbite_smile
Click to expand...
a +2 and a +4 works for me. no reason to be nervous. before you know it you'll be shooting on ps numbers a lot lower! :mrgreen:

i have no idea what time zone you're in nor when midnight is for you (we're scattered all over the world). however, if by some slim chance no one is posting in LL, you can cross post on the Health forum. you won't be alone. besides, if we happen to see a newbie's kitty dropping into unfamiliar territory one of us will usually stay up to keep them company... as others did for us when we started.
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS225+2 268+5 287+8 311 newbie dosecrease ?

lori and tom said:
west coast for marjorie,,,me too, but i'm still helpful in a lantus 'crisis'
Click to expand...

We're not going to have a crisis, nothing close to that. We would never suggest anything that is unsafe, Gracie has plenty of room for an increase.
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS225+2 268+5 287+8 311 newbie dosecrease ?

Also, remember that when you increase the dose, it can take a cycle for the shed to "top off" before you see a response. That's not written in stone but it is a consideration. If numbers are going to start dropping, my hunch is that you'll see some action by +4. You are in control of the numbers as long as you have a meter, strips, and HC -- not that you've got any reason to expect a lot of excitement.
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS225+2 268+5 287+8 311 newbie dosecrease ?

I'm west coast...I'm sure I'll need some hand holding no matter when we do it.

Here's what I'm wondering...Mike and I are tired; we function better in the morning. Do you think it will be ok to let her go 6 cycles at .5u and do a +2 and +4 tonight and then kick off the .75 u in morning? Should I do a +11.5 in the morning and see ...I mean, she's always low in the mornings (relative to her). So if she's 225 in the AMPS, we could shoot .75 and we'll be here all day to monitor her. What do you all think...I don't want to hold her back and I know we need a dosecrease but just wonder if we should do it when we're bright eyed and more people are around. Lori makes a good point..we started her low because she is very sensitive to everything. I like the increase to just .75...nice and slow.
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie AMPS225+2 268+5 287+8 311 newbie dosecrease ?

Marjorie...many kitties start on the full 1.0u dose...so this will be fine for Gracie...it's the .25u increase from what you were giving her. The numbers are yellow and pink so there is room for this little bit more insulin.
And you have been doing very well with the testing! Very nice job! :thumbup

ETA: Everyone is in agreement then...tomorrow for the increase. Very good! :razz:
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie +8 311 newbie dosecrease ANOTHER ?

if you're more comfortable increasing in the morning, that's fine. no problem. :-D
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie +8 311 PMPS 294 NEED HELP NOW PLS

There's no dire need to increase tonight. Shoot the 0.5u tonight and then increase in the AM.
 
Re: 9/20 Gracie +8 311 PMPS 294 NEED HELP NOW PLS

Marjorie...a +2 and a +4 would be good tonight...and maybe you can fix your header to take out the alert, okay? Hope you have a good night...see you tomorrow, k? :mrgreen:
 
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