+7.5 and rising to 80

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Re: New and need some advice

Hello Laura and Lily!

Welcome to the Lantus forum (aka LL)


Definitely looks like you are at a turning point with Lily's treatment! Doing very well!
I'd suggest if you haven't already - to read up on the LL stickies (up above with the stars) full of info about Lantus and this forum.
Others will be by to offer feedback so do check back with us!

Just a quick question, what meter are you using for Lily?
 
Re: New and need some advice

Hi, Ronnie & Luna - We're using the FreeStyle Lite by Abbott because I wanted something that didn't need much blood. Is that okay?
 
Re: New and need some advice

You're off to a good start, particularly with your home testing and the switch to wet food. Glad you posted here. I see you've gotten a spreadsheet started and linked. What do you need help with? : )

It looks like you're getting good results on the 1.0 u twice a day. Others will be along to advise you, but I think it looks like a good dose to sit at for a few more cycles, and keep up with your spot checks. (Before each shot and at least one during each cycle if you can.)

Check out Libby and Lucy, they have an incredible story, and are in your locale.
 
Re: New and need some advice

Welcome Lily and Laura!

One of the first things you'll want to do is read up on the stickies at the top of the Lantus group page. Especially take a look at the following link"

New to Group? Please Read...

You will also want to set up a profile so that we don't ask the same questions over and over about what kind of food you feed, health issues, etc... This group is very data driven - the more data we collect, the easier it is when you ask advice on dose increases/decreases, etc. We also normally post daily "condos" with morning (and then evening) preshot numbers - one condo per day, per cat so we can keep all the info for that day in one thread.

You might also want to read over the Tight Regulation Protocol

Congrats on starting home testing! This is all pretty scary at first - I made a ton of mistakes with Kasha before I came to FDMB (and a few after, of course - just not as many!). There's a lot to learn at first - it can seem overwhelming, but you'll be surprised how soon it all becomes second nature.

Good luck with the move to your new home! And I hope you like the vet you found - sometimes it's hard to find a vet who will support home testing and a protocol that may be different from what they know. But we've had a lot of success in this group following our protocol, lots of kitties have gone into remission and those that haven't are enjoying a better, healthier life as they are more regulated... You are already seeing how much better your little girl feels!

So, welcome again - there are lots of great people on this board and they've helped a lot of kitties... Feel free to post questions or concerns any time..
 
Re: New and need some advice

Hi!

Welcome and you are in the right place for sure.

Since it sounds like you are home today, can you do a fulll curve? The better idea you have of LillyCat's bg patterns, the better off you will both be.

It looks like she is giving you some very nice green numbers and then rebounding to the highs again. One thing that will be important for you will be to get really familiar with the idea of "earned" dose decreases and try to stick to that pattern of earn-a-dosecrease-drop-by-0.25U. I'm not criticizing you! I was all over the place with dosage before I found Lantus Land. But I think, from my limited experience, that you will have LilyCat off the juice some time soon.

Do wait around for the very experienced people to come by and comment. In the meantime, brava on that spreadsheet. You are doing great!
 
Re: New and need some advice

Thank you! I just did the +3 and she's at 216, up a little from the 196, but that follows her pattern of rising in the a.m. so it may be that early a.m. is her peak/nadir or that we're getting higher readings because of food. Of course I woke her up when I did the +3 and she's in there eating again now, so no doubt the +4 will be higher, too. I'm gone mid-day to get the keys to my new house, do an inspection, a replace a tire (Murphy's Law day yesterday and have a nail in my tire as a result) so I won't be able to do a +6. I can do a +4 right before I leave though and then will do another reading as soon as I get back.

Wow, my husband is handling the move on the other end and it's been just me since I've been testing...I'm so relieved to have people to talk with who understand the words that I'm using better than I do! Thanks a million!

--Laura
 
Re: New and need some advice

Welcome to Lantus Land (LL)!!

If you've not done so already, take some time out to read the starred,sticky notes at the top of the Board. There is a huge volume of information contained there. In fact, it's a little overwhelming at first. Please pay particular attention to the sticky on the dosing protocol that we use here.

You're already doing a great job with getting a SS set up and home testing. We're very data driven on this Board so having everything in place is very helpful. One thing to remember is that Lantus dosing is based on the lowest point (nadir) of the cycle. Functionally, this means it's important to get spot checks throughout the day and evening cycles. Spot checks in the evenings are particularly important since many cats have lower numbers at night. You may also want to get a curve (testing every 2 hours -- you do not need a vet to do this for you!!). It will help you to know when the Lantus onset is, the nadir, and the duration of a shot. There is a "typical" curve in the stickies.

It's no surprise that you needed to drop the dose back down with the transition to a canned food diet. The dry M/D is 13% carb and the canned is 14% carb -- not exactly what we'd consider low carb (LC). If you've not found Janet & Binky's food charts, it's a great resource for knowing the carb content of cat food. I'm hoping that you've found the LC varieties of Fancy Feast or other brands of food. In addition, please stock up on some high carb (grilled or marinated gravy type of food) Fancy Feast. We use the gravy to help steer low numbers. We encourage giving food that is less than 10% carb although most of us feed in the 5% range.

I would hold Lily's dose at the 1.0u barring any low numbers. Lantus does best when doses are held for several days, as you'll read in the sticky or in the links to the formal versions of the dosing protocols.

Please ask questions. We're here to help! You may also find it helpful and/or informative to visit our "condos" (the thread on each of our cats -- one condo, per cat, per day) and look at our spreadsheets. Also, if you need help, change the subject line in your first post of the day. It will change what is visible on the Board. If you add a post, it will bump your condo to the top so it can get quick attention.
 
Re: New and need some advice

Thank you, Sienne and Gabby! I'll be able to be home all day tomorrow so I can start the full curve after p.m. dose tonight and go through p.m. tomorrow. The link to the curve was very helpful and much appreciated!

--Laura
 
Re: New and need some advice

Hi Laura and Lily! Welcome to Lantus Land!

I'm in Charleston too (North Charleston actually) and it's great to have another LL-er in my area. If you need a vet recommendation let me know, I LOVE my vet. I've trained her well over the last few years and while she won't admit that she likes this website, she does admit that she likes what I've done with Lucy and with Jazzy. ;-)

It looks like the food change is doing wonders for Lily, please stick around and let us help you.
 
Re: New and need some advice

Hi, Libby and Lucy - My temporary housing is in N. Charleston behind the Shoney's on Rivers, but we're moving to downtown CHS on Monday. I would love a vet reference! Someone referred me to a vet that's way out on Bee's Ferry, and I'd love someone closer and someone who doesn't think that home testing and good food is a bad thing. I think I might scream if I walked into a vet's office and they tried to put us on MD after all of this, although I've got a boatload of that expensive stuff in both dry and wet form that won't be touching anybody's lips around here....Thanks for the support! It's so great to have someone in "the hood" who's gone through this!
 
Re: New and need some advice

Hi, everyone - I hope I'm doing this "condo" thing right. Thanks for everyone's advice about staying at 1u. It looks like Lily's back on track after the skipped dose yesterday a.m. I can't believe that in just one week with low carb FF and home testing that we may have already dropped her dose in half. I'm not counting my chickens yet, but I'm thrilled with what happened today and can now do a pretty decent curve over the next day. Should I be waking up every two hours all night? Is that how people do this? I'm afraid she's going to be on to me quick.

Ya'll are so appreciated!
Click to expand...




Hi Laura

I've asked for your other thread to be merged with this one, you'll want to keep one thread per day, anytime you have a new question just do a reply to your current thread and it will get bumped up to the top.

Most of us do a curve at least once a week or so, or when we are home for the day. Regular curve is about every 2 hours or a mini curve every 3 hours.
You don't have to stay up a full 24 hours, altho some of us have :lol: (no comments please!) :lol:

At nite time, when you get your last test in for the night, you'll just want to make sure numbers are in a safe range, leave food out for overnite or set a timed feeder to have food offered thru the nite.

If noone's mentioned it yet, you'll want to avoid giving food in the two hours before pre shot for both cycles. Most of us do offer a snack around +8, or +9, and that's fine.
 
Re: New and need some advice

By the way, that's a nice PMPS number for Lily. I would suggest a +1 check to start tonight. :razz: And post if you need help.
 
Re: New and need some advice

What's up with people and cats in Charleston and all the "L" names? Libby and Lucy? Lily and Laura? LOL!!! Well, I guess it fits right in here in Lantus Land!!

Hey Laura - just so you know, Libby is one of our experts around here and you're lucky to have her in your neighborhood to recommend vets, etc!
 
Re: New and need some advice

Thanks, Ronnie - I wasn't sure if I should do a "condo" since my first thread was all intro or not. I'll get the hang of this soon. It's a plus 1.25 but I took your suggestion and it is at 89. Not sure what to make of that. She ate a ton of food for dinner, so I would have expected this number to be higher than her PMPS. Puzzling, so thanks for suggesting it. I'm assuming that there is some sort of dose overlap for her that is contributing to that?

Here's what I'm currently doing for feeding (which I think works fine with what you suggested, but check me on this one). I have two kitties, Allegra who is obese but not diabetic and Lily (you can see both in the pic). They've always free-fed on dry food until Lily started "getting sick" a few months ago, and I started supplementing with wet, but not good wet. Allegra still ate the dry, so I've had to convert them both. When I wake up or get home, there is always no food. I test Lily and then put down half a can of low-carb FF (no fillers - carefully checking), and they eat that down. Then I put a frozen can of FF down (a suggestion of a friend with a cat with FD) and they eat off of it until it is gone. It lasts to about +8. So, that gets them about 1/4 can each of food right before I give insulin although Lily usually eats more, and then they lick the FF popsicle all day long for small bites. What's your thought about that? I've been wondering, but so far I like it because they get little bits when it thaws.
 
Re: New and need some advice

That is so very funny, Kryskat! And actually, it is weird that I never noticed that my cat's names are the first two letters of my own. Freaky, actually.
 
Re: New and need some advice

That is fine! They are grazing thru the day and that is fine!
At least your kitties like the frozen pucks, mine never did, lol!

If you have a look at the curve chart in the New to the Group stickie, you'll see this:

Example of a typical curve:
+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.

No worries if a +1 or +2 is slightly higher, this is normal. But just in case, we like to suggest those early tests.
Lantus takes patience, but you'll soon see how it's working! As of now, it's working very good!

Not sure how late you can stay up after your shot time in the evenings, so just keep going, post for help with the numbers, and others will guide you along.

You guys are doing very well!
 
Re: New and need some advice

Thanks, Ronnie - BTW, I fixed your name from earlier post...sorry about that. So her +1 was lower than her PMBG though...is that weird?
 
Re: New and need some advice

Oh - I was wondering if I should race Ronnie to posting the typical Lantus curve, but she beat me again!

You love that curve, Ronnie!!! LOL!

Laura - get used to seeing that curve... some people (ahem) love to send it out from time to time to remind you... ;)
 
Re: New and need some advice

:lol: no worries, I get called all sorts of things!

89 is pretty good for a +1, very close to the preshot, you're fine, and it's not weird! It's super good!
Just make sure Lily has food available for the first couple of hours after pre shot - this helps control any big dives she may be thinking about.
Nice and steady!

:lol: @ Krys! :lol: :lol:
 
Re: New and need some advice

Thx, Ronnie - So should I be trying to test her every hour right now? I'm a few minutes away from a true +2, but I just did a 1.25...She's down eating more, so maybe this is all exactly how it supposed to work?

--Laura
 
Re: New and need some advice

+2 is fine.
We'd be very interested to see her +3 tonight.

I noticed in your spreadsheet, you mention you dont know where her peak is, having these spot checks will help you find it.

Peak can change, as an example, Luna peaked early in a cycle, like around +3...but eventually he moved himself up to the usual of +5 or +6 (according to curve chart) ECID (every cat is different) some kitties peak late in a cycle and some early, but you will find Lily's eventually.


But again, it doesn't mean test every hour, just in these nice low numbers you'll want to keep an eye on them.
And don't worry about not catching these numbers in the day time if you work or are out, this is why we get that data when we are home and days off etc.
 
Re: New and need some advice

I would test at +2 when the +1 is lower than the preshot, or when she's green like this. Looks good!

My vet is probably too far for you - it's in North Charleston at Ashley Phosphate and Dorchester Rd. It's a pretty good distance from downtown. If you want to check it out anyway, see http://www.theanimalhospital.net It looks like a country vet, kind of is, there's just one doc and she looks like she's about 15 years old. LOL! But she stays current and she does her homework and she's open minded, and I like that. They really focus on client education. I've been to the Bee's Ferry one and liked them too. They seem up to date and I liked the vet I saw. Convenient hours. I took Lucy there once to try them out when she needed chest x-rays. I didn't get into talking about diabetes with them because that wasn't why I was there, but I really liked the vet I saw. I decided I liked my vet better, plus that is pretty far from where I live and Lucy gets extremely stressed in the car. They have our site linked on their web page, so that's a good sign. Closer to downtown, I've heard great things from two different people about Charles Towne Veterinary Hospital. I don't know how they are with diabetes but a friend has been going there for years and really likes them, and they seem to be well thought of in rescue circles. Hope this helps!
 
Re: New and need some help now

Okay, haven't updated the spreadsheet but getting worried. Her +2 is 56, and she just woke up and went and ate some more food. Advice please! Updating spreadsheet now, and so glad that I am home.

-Laura
 
Re: New and need some help now

ah-ha! See what I mean? :razz:

Very good! Can you re-test in 30 minutes? She's getting some food, so this should help.

Oh yea, I forgot to mention, sometimes you will have to re-test in 1/2 hour or 15 mintutes, just to make sure numbers are steady.

Do you by any chance have any gravy flavours on hand? Or HC as we call it? (High carb)
If you don't - you'll want to have that on hand, mark it HC with a marker and set it aside. You'll need HC sometimes to steer numbers.
 
Re: New and need some help now

I don't have gravy flavors (just read that today), but I've got wet md and dry md (she loves the dry md - thinks it is treats) so I could probably give her some of that junk. I'll test her again in 18 minutes which will be + .5 (Won't give her anything yet though)
 
Re: New and need some help now

I would use the wet DM instead of the dry.

Dry takes longer to get in the system and longer to get out - unless she refuses to eat, a couple of kibbles works, I had to resort to it too early on.

With the wet MD, there may be some juice-broth-gravy-ish in that that you can mix up with the low carb food, dont give too much, a little at a time, you dont want to stuff her with too much, as you may need her to eat later, plus you'll avoid any possibility of scarf and barf.
 
Re: New and need some help now

will be waiting for your test.

FYI, if you have karo syrup on hand, that can be mixed into the low carb food to make it higher carb. You don't need to do that now, but let's see what the next test is.
 
Re: New and need some help now

Hi Laura & Lilly, Just dropping by to say welcome. It looks like you've gotten lots of great advice already. You have come to the right place. Good luck with your move and with your kitty.

Ella & Stu
 
Re: New and need some help now

Okay, don't know how to reflect this on the spreadsheet, but she is at 58 at +2.5. Advice? When should I test next? Seems okay in terms of trying to force food or carbs. Am I right?
 
Re: New and need some help now

I would feed a couple more bites of his low carb food and test again in 30 minutes. He might be starting to surf here (that's a good thing!).
 
Re: New and need some help now

Okay, just took her to her hockey puck and she ate a little and then gave her a tiny little bite of my reserve deli roast beef (no sugar, no carbs, carefully checked). That seemed to go over okay! Very tiny bites. Where's the best place to learn about "surfing"? I can only assume that it means riding the crest of a good wave, but that's as close as I can get.
 
Re: New and need some help now

You're doing great! You figured out the SS. You can look at Gabby's. I do pretty much the same thing.

Right now, while you're watching Lily's numbers, don't over feed. You want to feed about a teaspoon or two of food. If you over indulge, you could end up with scarf-n-barf. When numbers are low, our kitties like to eat. You don't want to keep giving them a ton of food. Just a little bit each time you test so you can steer the numbers.
 
Re: New and need some help now

Great! She's a tiny little eater. Scarf and barf so far not in her modus operandi. She has a teensy little girly mouth so she won't eat anything big. She licks a little, takes a couple of polite little bites, and that's it, but does it regularly. When I hand feed her, the servings have to be no bigger than a fingernail moon or she won't eat them. Little bitty pieces. A teaspoon of food in one serving is practically miraculous! Even when she stomps on me at 5 a.m. demanding food, she only eats a bit before taking a break. Maybe I'm lucky, huh? Haven't thought of it that way as I've watched her drop almost 4 lbs over the past few months, but counting my blessings for it now!
 
Re: New and need some help now

BTW - You are the most awesome people for sitting here doing this with me on a Saturday night. I'm overflowing with thanks.
 
Re: New and need some help now

Okay! 56 at +3. What's next FD coaches? We seem to be hanging in there, with no HC or Karo. I know that most people would kill for these numbers, but I'm a complete nervous newbie that has no clue what's going to happen here...It's why I've skipped doses when I've seen numbers like this in the a.m. when I'm heading out for work.
 
Re: New and need some help now

Well, normally I have a date on saturday nites, but right now he wants his computer cuz gaming is better :lol: geesh!

I'll be back to check on you later, others are around so just keep posting when u can!

By the way - you can always edit your first title/subject line to update your numbers.
Just go to your first post in this thread, and hit "edit" this will allow you to add HELP! or any new updates, don't forget to hit "submitt"

You're doing great!! :mrgreen:


56 at +3 is great! Surfing for sure! And being nervous is ok too, it gets easier and more comfy as you go.
 
Re: New and need some help now

Thank you, thank you! I'm going to go see if I can understand surfing...I think I can probably wait to test until +4 now, right? This is going to be one very annoyed cat if I test every 30 minutes.
 
Re: Surfing at +3...what does that mean?

Surfing is good.

What we don't know is where the Lantus onset is with Lily. I would still test every 30 min. Annoyed or not, give your girl a treat and explain that you're keeping her safe. She may continue to surf or once the dose kicks in, her numbers may continue to drop. Onset is generally somewhere around +2 and +3. (This is why a curve is important. It gives you that info.)
 
Re: Surfing at +3...what does that mean?

.

hee hee hee...wait til you have to test every 15 minutes! She's gonna love u lots then!

My suggestion is +3.5, the 50's are good, but just in case she drops too much, I'd keep an eye on her.

summer_33-1.gif
Surf Lily surf!
 
Re: Surfing at +3...what does that mean?

Okay, okay. I'll use a phrase that I hate and just "man up" and do it. More in about 13 minutes, then.
 
Re: Surfing at +3...what does that mean?

56 again at +3.5. Surfing, right? Momma is getting sleepy (AMPS was very early this morning) but I can set my alarm. What do I need to do to do this right? Thank you Barb and Checkers!
 
Re: Surfing at +3...what does that mean?

yep, surfing. :smile:

I'd rather see her surfing a bit higher before bed. Can you set an alarm for an hour? Either that or feed a good size meal and test again in 30 minutes to see if that bumps her to the 60's.
 
Re: Surfing at +3...what does that mean?

The good sized meal won't work for this gal at this point (she's ready for bed and just stares at the food, good Feline that she is). I'm thinking that my Blackberry is my best friend. Back atcha at 4.5 in 50 minutes!
 
Re: Surfing at +3...what does that mean?

Must've had it in my head that I was doing +5 so set the alarm for that. 55 at +5. Still surfing...Re-check at +6? These low numbers aren't making me feel confident enough to stop testing and sleep yet, but I think she's good for an hour right?

Thanks!
 
Re: Still surfing at +5...what does that mean?

I meant to pass this link to you earlier, but here it is:
Low Carb Kitty Treats

Kitty treats work wonders for testing and keeping kitties happy.
These are good options for low to zero carb treats.
Most of these are just freeze dried chicken, for example.

We also use that same chicken to dust off food to get them to eat.
It flakes off easily between your fingers. We call that "chicken dust" :lol:
 
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